Head of Texas DPS: The Uvalde Police Response Was ‘An Abject Failure’

By
TTAG Contributor
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149

By Jim Vertuno and Jake Bleiberg, AP

Law enforcement authorities had enough officers on the scene of the Uvalde school massacre to have stopped the gunman three minutes after he entered the building, the Texas public safety chief testified Tuesday, pronouncing the police response an “abject failure.”

Police officers with rifles instead stood and waited for over an hour while the gunman carried out the May 24 attack that left 19 children and two teachers dead.

Col. Steve McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, testified at a state Senate hearing on the police handling of the tragedy. Delays in the law enforcement response have become the focus of federal, state and local investigations.

“Obviously, not enough training was done in this situation, plain and simple. Because terrible decisions were made by the on-site commander,” McCraw said of Pete Arredondo, the Uvalde school district police chief.

Eight minutes after the shooter entered the building, an officer reported that police had a “hooligan” crowbar that they could use to break down the classroom door, McCraw said. Nineteen minutes after the gunman entered, the first ballistic shield was brought into the building by police, the witness testified.

McCraw told the Senate committee that Arredondo decided to put the lives of officers ahead of the lives of children.

The public safety chief began outlining for the committee a series of missed opportunities, communication breakdowns and other mistakes:

— Arredondo did not have a radio with him.

— Police and sheriff’s radios did not work within the school; only the radios of Border Patrol agents on the scene worked inside the school, and even they did not work perfectly.

— Some diagrams of the school that police were using to coordinate their response were wrong.

— The classroom door could not be locked from the inside.

State police initially said the gunman entered the school through an exterior door that had been propped open by a teacher, but McGraw said that the teacher had closed the door and it could only be locked from the outside.

“There’s no way for her to know the door is locked” McGraw said. “He walked straight through.”

Questions about the law enforcement response began days after the massacre. McCraw said three days after the shooting that Arredondo made “the wrong decision” when he chose not to storm the classroom for more than 70 minutes, even as trapped fourth graders inside two classrooms were desperately calling 911 for help and anguished parents outside the school urged officers to go inside.

Arredondo later said he didn’t consider himself the person in charge and assumed someone else had taken control of the law enforcement response. Arredondo has declined repeated requests for comment to The Associated Press.

The 18-year-old gunman used an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle.

In the days and weeks after the shooting, authorities gave conflicting and incorrect accounts in the days after what happened, sometimes withdrawing statements hours after making them.

“Everything I’ve testified today is corroborated,” McCraw assured lawmakers.

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149 COMMENTS

  1. Ok, more than the school district police were involved (a confusion of mine that the school police were the force on hand; other LE were not at the scene. But, how did a school district official remain “on-scene commander”?

    • Follow up….

      Three (four?) LE agencies, three different radio types, three different frequencies. What could possibly go right?

      • Sam, the coms problem is common across the country. In my county I could scan and talk to all the local PDs. The state? FHP, Game & Fish, FDLE, etc. wouldn’t even let us scan their frequencies. Don’t bother to ask the Feds.

        • “Sam, the coms problem is common across the country.”

          Indeed. It is remarkable that any over-the-air comm coordination is possible at all in school shooting incidents.

          Apparently keeping comms segregated has more value (to someone) than coordinating gunfire situations.

        • @GF

          35 plus years ago I was issued a Bendix-King 14 channel VHF radio. It wasn’t the greatest, fanciest radio in the world, but it had the capability of being field programmable in seconds for any LE VHF frequency and PL tone. Loved that radio when I would work with other agencies / departments because it gave me the ability for real-time communication.

      • So three maybe four different leo agencies failed to follow their overriding directive of go in immediately and stop the shooter. For an hour. Where they adjusting their frequencies? For an hour? Like every school shooting this one positively reeks of their overriding objective being countermanded by a higher directive. What’s that saying about coincidences?

        • “What’s that saying about coincidences?”

          Yes, malfeasance must be considered in the pattern we have with school shootings.

          Which still brings the matter back to the voters; “we the people”.

        • Sam, agreed but unfortunately we are stuck fighting a rearguard battle through much delayed and only periodic hindsight and only a few bother to even look. A battle requires opposing forces, two ‘enemies’ as it were, and I’m pretty damn sure I recognize exactly who is my enemy. And it ain’t the people. Mostly 😉.

        • Notice the article says he used the terrible AR-15 for the killings. With all the time the keystone cops on scene gave him he could have used a butcher knife and accomplished the same result. The AR-15 played no part in the slaughter except as an instrument used by a mentally unstable person who should have been involuntarily in a mental hospital for possible treatment and to protect society.

          For too long we have treated mental illness as the red-headed step-child and at the same time put society in general at great risk. It’s time we stepped up to the plate and re-opened or build new, state operated mental health hospitals and passed thoughtful laws that both help the mentally ill and protect society.

          Red flag laws do nothing. They ostensibly take away firearms but leave the person who is supposed to be so mentally unstable that he/she cannot be trusted with firearms but is still free to buy acid or gasoline or drive a car or use a baseball bat or any other instrumentality of injury to carry out the mental illness dictates he/she purportedly intends to fulfill. Not limited to males. Here in this county a couple of days ago a female ran over her estranged female lover with an automobile. Fortunately, her aim was not good and the female lover is hospitalized with major injuries. Sometimes the resultant disabilities make life so painful and difficult, it makes me wonder about being “saved”. I personally have a directive that gives EMTs three minutes to get everything back to within normal limits or they are to cease all efforts. If they arrive in over three minutes, then I am D.O.A. I once spent six weeks observing a partially brain damaged man in his early 40s, the result of therapeutic misadventure and I want no part of his misery.

      • “Three (four?) LE agencies, three different radio types, three different frequencies. What could possibly go right?”

        After 9-11-2001 went down, Congress passed a *massive* ‘homeland security’ law that pretty much bought emergency response agencies new radio systems that could cross-communicate so things like that would be much less common.

        At least, that’s what was *supposed* to happen… 🙁

        • “…homeland security’ law that pretty much bought emergency response agencies new radio systems that could cross-communicate…”

          Were the radios free for every agency, or were the Benjamins involved?

        • “Were the radios free for every agency, or were the Benjamins involved?”

          Ask them…

      • Does Texas not have an common radio channel that all LEO agencies can switch to in a time of crisis like the ILEEN (Indiana Law Enforcement Emergency Network) channel in Indiana?

        • “Does Texas not have an common radio channel that all LEO agencies can switch to in a time of crisis…”

          Don’t know; not a resident of Texas. Just trying to get a better picture of the comms complications at the Uvalde incident.

          Things are getting even muddier. Read an article yesterday that the school police chief claims he was not the on-scene commander.

    • All this yada, yada, yada going on is why I proposed hanging the corpse of the perp in front of the White House as a reminder of who is the primary actor and star of the show. Supporting actor awards go to a school ran by people who by all accounts made soft target sitting ducks out of little children. And next on the list are the police who acted stupidly…a phrase created by the self serving lord marshal b,h. obama and used without his permission.

      It goes without saying the perp has the advantage of a sneak attack. To prevent that requires constant vigilance and and the tools and will to fight back…sometimes easier said than done.

      • And special guest star goes to who left the door propped open.

        Probably so they could duck out for a quick smoke.

        • Sorry, Southern Cross, but you’re not keeping up with the latest news. The door was not left propped open: the teacher involved physically shut the door. The last thing I read was, teacher lacked the ability to actually lock the door. The door was supposed to lock automatically, but it failed to lock.

          So much for computerized security systems. The main system was borked.

    • NIMS – National Incident Management System rule in any “multi jurisdictional” scene.

      Or WHO is the properly constituted “authority” stage on impomptu coup and sieze control? Or just wait for a febby to show up and take over? I DON”T think you’d like that idea.

      • “NIMS – National Incident Management System rule in any “multi jurisdictional” scene.”

        Thanx for that. My underlying question is how a school police force is involved in serious crime response, vs. sheriff or city/town police?

        Would NIMS put an SRO in charge?

        The school police force is just a weirdity I have never known about.

        • I don’t want to bore anyone or change the main idea, but fyi, NIMS does not determine who, person or agency, is in charge. It establishes the need for an identified incident command structure and gives functional names (ex., incident commander, operations section chief, etc) just to illustrate a few objectives. It’s up to the practitioners to determine command based on competency, not the type or level of of agency or the brass on anyone’s collar.

      • It is brutally obvious that the tenets of NIMS: the command and management, communications management, interoperability, were not adhered to. Full stop. Having said that, the abject failure of a first-responding officer (and every one after that) to go straight in and engage is why so many lives were lost. More than 15 years of dedicated, consistent training across the country was ignored.

  3. Ineptitude can only hold so much water.
    With each new revelation malice becomes more likely.

    Imagine a fire dept., hoses hooked up and ready, standing around as the structure burns. Nobody would tolerate that yet here people continue to make excuses and justifications. Almost as if it’s a good thing a bunch of kids died.

    • Yep. The old British saying was:

      “First time is a coincidence, a second time is happenstance, third time, enemy action.”

    • Now imagine that same fire scene playing out multiple times with multiple departments.

        • No doubt but thanks, I think I know them already. Hard not to when it’s such a complete and total shitshow. I’d like to read of a few suicides in the near future but I suspect they’re prob scarfing Pabst 🤮 and doughnuts bragging about their response times and comparing pensions and benefits instead. The phrase “useless fucks” has likely never seen a better application.

    • Shire-man,

      Your comment is an excellent comparison on multiple levels.

      The obvious comparison: a fire department failing to attempt to put out the fire and rescue any victims trapped inside.

      The less obvious comparison: police quite literally had “bullet hoses” (firearms) capable of putting out the “fire” (incapacitating the spree killer) and chose not to use them.

    • Mmmmm. Fire fighting and police work really don’t have much in common. TBH, I once made the call to let a barn burn down, and the local volunteer fire departments agreed with me. I told them bluntly that if they had foam, they might save something, but without foam, they would be pissing into the wind while risking lives. Livestock was out, people were out, I pointed out where to turn off electric and gas, they did both, then concentrated on preventing surrounding buildings from burning.

      Sometimes, you actually DO back off and allow the structure to burn.

      • Paul,

        Several years ago, I noticed a strange orange glow out of a window about two hours after sunset. I went closer to the window and noticed that the orange glow was quite large. I stepped outside to see, to my amazement, a good portion of the sky was glowing orange–and glowing quite bright at that just like it was only 20 minutes after sunset. Then, when I moved to a more favorable position in my yard (eliminating trees from my view to the horizon), I saw the flames: a barn was on fire roughly four miles away. It was early October and that barn was filled to the brim with dry hay bales. It was probably the most spectacular man-made event that I have ever witnessed. And I can totally appreciate how it would be impossible for a fire department to put it out. The best use of their efforts would be to ensure that the fire did not spread anywhere else.

        • With the really big ones, it’s a bit of a shock as to how far away you can be and still feel the *heat*…

        • And how, depending on the materials, a neighboring structure doesn’t actually have to be kissed by the flames to catch fire. The ambient heat alone could cause spontaneous combustion.

      • And is usually illegal as the property is typically assumed insured. May be arson involved. What you assert is NOT correct in most states.

    • “Almost as if it’s a good thing a bunch of kids died“

      So you’re suggesting that Texas law-enforcement was somehow involved in an intentional school massacre?

      “third time, enemy action“

      So local and state Texas law enforcement would be the enemy?

      And the federal border patrol agents who actually moved to neutralize the shooter would be the patriots who brought the false flag operation by Texas law enforcement to an end?

      Interesting…

      • So is it your suggestion then that each time this has happened in exactly the same manner that the cops were not given instructions to stand down, to wait, to not effect entry? That maybe they were just confused, scared, uninterested, waiting for swat to show while listening to children screaming and then listening to the screaming abruptly stop? Maybe you consider these school shootings simply a new ‘fad’ instead of considering what a truly bizarre thing it is to even think up such a thing in the first place much less to actually carry it out, much less all the perps being “known to the authorities” and all the locations having recently undergone a school shooter drill, none of these killings occurring where they would knowingly meet resistance (yet how could the shooters themselves know this), etc etc? Are you really so dense that you fail to consider the possibility (probability at this point) that these killings are not being orchestrated, maybe even “Brought to you by Pfizer” or whatever. You might be a bullshit artist and a clown but I’d be surprised if you’re actually that stupid. Wait, maybe you’re just providing cover miner. Is that it, are you part of The Team, miner? Don’t be an ass. Tall order, I know.

        • Okay QAnon. Cuckoo! These cops are afraid of getting shot so they chicken out it’s really not complicated.

        • I’m just trying to understand what y’all think this is all about.

          “that the cops were not given instructions to stand down, to wait, to not effect entry?“

          So you’re saying that the local and the Texas Department of Public Safety troopers are part of a conspiracy, that they followed a directive to not breach the classroom so that more little children would be killed?

          And that the shooter was only neutralized by federal border patrol agents, who brushed past the Texas DPS officers and actually assaulted the classroom and terminated the shooter.

          So that would mean that Republican Gov. Greg Abbott and/or McCraw and their majority Republican DPS officers are a part of a vast conspiracy to intentionally kill small children.

          And the Biden administration’s federal CPB agents are the true patriots, who did their duty and entered the classroom to terminate the shooter and rescue the wounded.

          Well OK, that really sounds about right to me.

      • COINTELPRO, Gladio, CHAOS, FUBELT, Operation Condor, Project MERRIMAC, Operation Mongoose, etc….

        Seems kinda naive to think nothing like this could be going on here. One of those, “sure we do it everywhere else all the time but we’d never do it here” things? Or are you one of those “sure, it’s been documented, admitted to and apologized for but if you believe it happened you’re a conspiracy theorist!” types?

      • Yeah, okay miner, I guess you truly are that dense. I’ll spell it out slowly for you: the cops were just following orders, again, still. Orders from above, how far above we don’t know but it happens repeatedly, meaning over and over again. Maybe think about that a bit, clever guy. There, did that help? Prob not.

        • I’d also like to point out the sudden influx of never before seen commenters magically appearing all saying “there’s no conspiracy! There’s no conspiracy! Qanon retard! Qanon retard!”. Kinda odd, that. And it ain’t the first time either on this particular subject 👀.

        • “I’ll spell it out slowly for you: the cops were just following orders, again, still. Orders from above“

          OK, it seems what you’re saying is that both local and Texas department of public safety troopers are willing participants in a vast conspiracy to murder young school children.

          And if they are doing this at the direction of higher authority, do you mean McCraw or Greg Abbott?

          I’m having trouble believing that the Texas state troopers would obey orders from the Biden Administration, so that means they’re not a part of the conspiracy.

          “Orders from above, how far above we don’t know but it happens repeatedly, meaning over and over again“

          Do you mean these members of the Texas law enforcement community are co-conspirators in a vast conspiracy that spans many states, over an extended timeline?

          Now I’m beginning to understand what Hillary Clinton meant by a “vast right wing conspiracy”, I think you’ve identified it!

          I am really glad that in Uvalde, Joe Biden’s CPB agents were willing to risk their lives to terminate the shooter and rescue the wounded children, thank God for the patriotic federal law enforcement.

        • Miner, just stop with your bullshit. It’s old, it’s lost its juice long ago. None of what you shit out of your mouth is what I said, all of it was, literally, your own words. I can easily tell you’re not stupid but your constant farce of being oh so reasonable as you twist things around is laughable. Do you really think anybody pays any attention to your crap other than to use you as a convenient target to vent? Why are you here spewing your same old tired act into an echo chamber full of people who despise you and what you claim you stand for, not that I believe a word you say, or that you even believe any of it. Are you hard up for cash buddy? We could prob scrape something together for you if you’re desperate, which you certainly must be. Or is the money actually that good, regurgitating the same tired crap over and over again like an dying cat choking on a large hairball. Jesus it must suck being you. Go infest a religious site where you actually sound like you believe what you are saying. Have some dignity for chrissakes. Stop playing the fool. It ain’t a good look.

        • I’m just trying to understand your theory.

          Who ordered the TX DPS to stand down and why did they obey?

        • No miner, you’re not trying to understand anything. Your entire charade is built around purposely not understanding and then copy/pasting bullshit to create some ridiculous veneer of knowledge and learned opinion. Are you really this stunningly obtuse or just intentionally ignorant and obfuscating? Rhetorical as all of us already know the answer. And how the hell would I know who’s giving these ‘orders’. That question alone is proof of your intentional display of idiocy. How the fuck can you continue with this stupidity, is it a medical disorder of some sort? Have you got zero self respect? Again, rhetorical as that answer too is obvious. Ah, but I neglect to factor in the renumeration aspect because it’s hard to imagine any other valid reason for continuing your clownshow. Not that it’s an honorable reason, far the fuck from it. Here’s some well meant life advice: get one.

  4. “We’ve finished establishing a chain of command, communication plan, staff cell, and other administrative necessities as prescribed by DHS guidelines. Ready to move!”

    “Bravo. The incident was a week ago.”

    • In a Community Assistance program put on by the fire department of our town after the Northridge Earthquake, one whole class, three long dreary hours, was on WHO IS IN CHARGE. In it we were advised not to start anything without authority and to follow whatever WHO IS IN CHARGE says to do. I have always worked for myself and my motto has always been LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.

      I didn’t tell the obvious fire department sycophant teaching the class that. He might have fainted or melted, not sure which.

  5. The only solution is what was done for the children of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama. Armed and trained staff inside the school.

    • Just stop preventing people who already carry from doing so in schools. Hell the guy at the funeral home would have ended it before Ramos jumped the fence, but he had to call his wife to bring him his gun because guns are prohibited from funeral homes in Texas.

  6. How many kids got shot after those first three minutes while the cops were amassing a suitable strike force? The way I understand it, not many.

    How many kids, already wounded at the three minute mark, bled out over the next hour? As I understand it, many suffered and/or died that way.

    When you have dozens of wounded children, police allowing them access to medical treatment is only hours away…

    • Uhhhh, Mr. FedUp, it seems that you have missed all the stories about those children who called 911 from the classroom. Children who must have been alive, unless you believe in zombies or ghosts or something. Children who repeatedly called 911 to report that a bad man was in their class, killing people. You ask ‘how many’, and I say that one was too many. Perhaps half of those children were still alive 15 minutes after it all started? 3/4 of them? Children, crying for help, and no help arrived for over an hour. Children crying for help, while some modern day Nero played fiddlefuck in the hallway.

      When seconds count, your local police may or may not respond sometime this week . . .

      • It sounds like the two of you agree. One of the major failures was the decision and/or confusion about transitioning from “active shooter” to “barricaded suspect” – something not taught in any security training I’ve seen, because it’s irrelevant. Regardless of whether the shooting continues, the wounded suffer (or die) while responders wait.

        • And if you are there alone, armed, you are the damn ‘strike force’. No waiting. Not unless you think you can live with yourself after. Apparently they all thought they could. Ain’t immunity grand?

        • Umm, I’m just a poor country hick buddy, very little Latin spoke in the open range up here, or maybe the chainsaws drown it out. Throw me a bone…

        • Rider/Shooter,
          Sorry, it’s the first half of a quote that literally means “Sweet and fitting it is, to die for one’s country.”

          Without the second clause, it basically means “This [saving innocent kids] is something worth fighting to the death for.”

        • Rider/shooter makes a good point.

          Being brave isn’t all that easy. We all like to think we’re brave, but it ain’t as easy as it sounds.

          We would all have had a thought or ten about busting into a room with a crazed shooter. Hell, I may have been chicken, myself.

          But, in those first seconds, listening to the shooting, I would indeed be asking myself how I would live the rest of my life if I didn’t act.

          Yeah – I’d have gone in, feeling the same kind of fears I felt when I followed my squad leader into action in the Navy. But the fear of failure would far outweigh my fear of death or injury.

        • Umm, thanks (good handle, makes the start of every comment challenging). I’ve heard it before of course but seldom enough I can only recall a couple Latin phrases and I’m sure I’d butcher them trying to quote them offhand.

        • Thanks! I’ve actually been thinking of changing it. I chose it on the spur of the moment for a sarcastic, snarky comment, but now I often think that it implies a snarky tone to everything I write, even though I often don’t intend it that way.

        • Umm…, yeah, no, don’t change your handle: it’s smart, funny and entertaining all at the same time. And it works for both your comments/replies and our replies, often in more than one way. Well chosen, even intelligently chosen. Umm, looking at mine now…

      • Paul, you bet, scared shitless but I mean how can a guy not go in? It’s impossible and I’ve long ago made my peace with that course of action if it’s ever necessary. If life is precious it’s young life (or old wisdom). Late midlife and beyond, distinctly less so. How those individuals stood there for an hour, much less the first couple of minutes, is well beyond my ability to parse. Or forgive. I hope they have children, every last one of them.

  7. I know the real reason that police took so long to respond: they were busy looking up the SARS2 CoV-19 “vaccination” status of all the children, staff, and law enforcement responders because they had to know whether or not they needed to don their COVID-19 protective gear before entering.

  10. @Rider/Shooter
    “A battle requires opposing forces,”

    You fight the war your enemy is fighting. In “good” vs. “evil”, evil never rests; good wants to get on with life. Evil wallows in conflict; good wants to settle conflict. Evil will stay engaged in evil, 24/7. Good wishes to rally only when no other option exists.

    • All true. So why didn’t “the good” get the hell in there and “settle the conflict”? Because they were told not to. Now follow that trail…

      • “So why didn’t “the good” get the hell in there and “settle the conflict”?”

        Because: the caliber of recruits permitted; the focus on policing other than armed encounters; the lack of consistent training; the lack of budget for training and recruitment of the type of cop who will always throw themselves into the line of fire; the type of police leadership the civilian leadership tolerates, or prefers; the type of elected officials who organize and field a police force; the voters who tolerate a police force that results in seeming cowardice.

        Note: we demand our military properly and continuously train and equip personnel in the art of warfare; we demand our police be competent in the art of armed confrontation, but refuse to properly train and equip those police.

        Why is it we don’t restrict the military to only one day of annual training with their equipment, then demand they always engage successfully in combat? And why is such poor preparation considered adequate to having civilian LE perform at the highest levels when confronted with armed confrontations?

        • Why is it we don’t restrict the military to only one day of annual training with their equipment . . . ?

          In this sense, we do. Both police and military who shoot for a living train frequently with small arms. Servicemembers whose day jobs are something else mostly train in the something else. The Navy emphasized security training post-9/11 by switching from annual to semiannual quals for most members, but then ran into ammo issues and approved simulation training for one of each year’s sessions.

        • Sam, I’m having a tough time agreeing with all that reasonable apologism stuff, regardless of the direction you’re aiming it. Cops, many cops, armed cops in body armor, many probably local residents with their own children and with the parents of the school children in question right in their faces, stood there with their dicks in one hand and a perfectly good rifle in the other (payed for by people’s taxes up here, as are their salaries, pensions and benefits) while an absolute nobody, a lunatic or another frequent flier Pfizer customer, “known to authorities” (again, still) shot a bunch of five year olds within range of their hearing. “They were cowards, they were just following orders, they weren’t trained well enough, it was the fog of war and he was bullied in school” just isn’t cutting it. Sorry. I know you’re just throwing possibilities out there while preparing another pitcher of martinis (as am I) but none of this shit passes the sniff test anymore. Children are being killed and it isn’t by random bullied teenagers and it ain’t because radio communications were down and it ain’t cause they couldn’t find a key, for an hour. I’ve had precisely zero training in these things and they would have had to kill me to keep me out. Literally. And I’m not alone in saying that, far the fuck from it. I’ll say it: these events are being orchestrated and they are following a script. This time the cops followed their ‘orders’, others when they arrived… didn’t. “C’mon man”; President Joe ‘Shotgun’ Biden, circus 2022, Delaware bicycling event.

  11. It wasn’t a total failure. After all, what’s a few dead children against the cops going home safe that night. Officer safety is all really matters. Well, that and using the correct pronouns.

  12. I’ve deep sorrow for those who lose children to these terrorists, that’s gotta be just horrible.
    What pisses me off is there were mothers and fathers willing to risk their lives to save their children and they were stopped by law enforcement.
    Seems to me a person should have the right to save their children, law enforcement be damned.

  13. I don’t think we should blame all the police because it is apparent that the leadership involved in directing them was the principal cause of the problem. Proper equipment (ie:radios), communication protocols, knowledge of the school environment and training are things that should have been dealt with prior to any event. The buck stops with the leaders of those police officers in terms of there overall response.

      • Ed, it’s straight up a glaring example of the mush brained apologists out there nowadays overanalyzing everything to the point of inaction and all its dire consequences. This guy doesn’t exist in the real world, he/it exists in the world of, as you rightly suggest, bureaucratic bullshit. He’s the guy who would’ve been looking at the four Star political, abject idiot telling him not to go in and saying yes sir, yes sir, no sir my radio isn’t working, yes sir, I’ll wait right here sir. All while shots and screams ring out behind him in a school full of five year old children. Fuck these people.

  14. hes correct only if the current working definition of the term “abject failure” is
    “government run false flag operation”

    • “government run false flag operation”

      So you’re suggesting that the local Texas and DPS sworn officers are part of a government false flag operation to intentionally murder children?

      And it was only when the federal border patrol agents arrived and neutralized the shooter that brought the Texas LEO false flag operation to an end?

      Interesting…

      So why would the local and Texas DPS officers want to intentionally murder school children?

      • You tell us, miner. After all, you play for the only team who would be capable of arranging shit like this due to a complete lack of conscience. The left happily off people to further their agendas, they always have. C’mon miner, give us an insight or two from the other side of the holler. Is it simply gun control or is deeper, darker than that? We’d really like to know before we start getting really pissed. Or did Trump do it?

    • sound awake you sound like another QAnon lunatic. please next tell us the New World Order, Rothchilds, and George Soros are behind this grand conspiracy. good grief. not sure why its so hard for people to understand there are many EVIL PEOPLE in the world and many police officers — especially those who took jobs as school district police officers — are inexperienced and afraid to get shot so they chickened out.

      • So you would have us believe that evil truly exists, just not among the fabulously wealthy or the political ‘elite’ (all growing wealthier by the minute, at our loss) who show no end to their manipulations of societies the world over? You might want to reconsider your incredibly naive viewpoint of wtf is going on in this brave new world ‘they’ are making… for us. But of course you won’t, will you?

  16. Each and every officer who was present that did not go thru the door should be terminated without severance pay.

    Arredondo and who ever was supposed to be the senior officer and in charge needs to be tried for dereliction of duty, willful misconduct for not attempting to breach the classroom. Each death is a separate count. I am sure there are more charges that can be argued.

    Real men, men with honor, would have done all they could do to save children. Anyone who would not intervene on behalf of children is less than human and devoid of morals. Not even worthy to be buried in excrement.

    • I couldn’t possibly agree more. Nor should we stop with just this… group. Lots of work to be done. Think of the children applies in spades both here and in future considerations as well.

  17. Sheer cowardice. What happened to all the “machismo” that’s suppossed to be part of the Latino/Hispanic “males” DNA? One is left to wonder whether there is some kind of genetic deficiency within the community, at least among those in Uvalde. The fact that the entire city council, police department, and school police department belong to a particular subset of our population and is likely a “patronage pit” of corruption similar to Sheriff Scitt Israel”s (B)Coward County Florida is reason for concern.

  18. @Umm

    We train combat units for combat; support staff (people with primary jobs other than direct combat) annual range time is inconsequential. One-time training sessions in a “high-speed, low-drag” setting is really not training, but orientation. The military trains combat units over and over and over. Police do not have budgets to do that (our fault).

    Have not learned of any police forces that train the armed contingent frequently, or thoroughly. Have shared a range session with LEOs. Wouldn’t want to be a bystander when police start shooting.

    Overall, the bulk of duty focus for street cops is not on armed confrontation. Military combat units are trained to break things, and kill people. Cops are trained to avoid conflict (de-escalate), and put their efforts on community service (neither of which is “bad”).

    Expecting cops to rise to the occasion, and competently perform that for which they are ill-trained and prepared, is simple scapegoating so that we can avoid responsibility for what we have allowed government (and by extension police) to devolve into.

    If police can free me from a shooting situation, I will be ever grateful. I do not expect it, and do not condemn police for not being skilled and prepared enough to make a success of it.

    • It isn’t that binary. Many Sailors are neither SEALs nor “support staff”; they stand security watches in which they (like most police) have some chance of firing weapons but don’t do it as a primary duty. Even the land services just fought two decades without safe areas for “support staff”, yet also without investing in turning them into warriors.

      I agree with the rest of what you wrote.

      Reading and thinking about both of our points, it occurred to me that school security can really only be effective if they’re the “infantry” flavor, without the many duties that distract other cops.

      • “it occurred to me that school security can really only be effective if they’re the “infantry” flavor, without the many duties that distract other cops“

        This is exactly why armed teachers aren’t the answer, “the many other duties that distract” them from a security guard role.

        • Would you be on board with trained infantry flavored mercanary/cops in every school? Would you agree to more taxes to cover it? I’m betting you wouldn’t agree to either. And I’m sure you can copy/paste a perfectly reasonable explanation of why not from Vogue or the New York Times.

        • I disagree (with Miner). When I was assigned non-security duties (driving ships, training firefighters, civil engineering) the Navy invested very little in my security training. That would not be likely to result in combat proficiency for someone (like many beat cops) who grew up as a non-“gun guy”, but it didn’t make me any less of a gun guy. In fact, some of the bravest and most proficient warriors I knew were an electronics technician, a diesel mechanic, and even a culinary specialist.

          If they had retired and become teachers, would they be as focused on security as a full-time guard? Quite possibly not, but they’d drastically improve the kids’ chances of surviving something like Uvalde – unless some idiot forced them to be defenseless.

        • I don’t think anyone ever said that arming teachers is “the answer”. However, it is one correct answer. You give the teachers who want a fighting chance the chance they ask for.

  19. ‘An Abject Failure’ or all went as planned? FBI fingerprints can be found in most of the “mass” shootings.

    • We must remenber Uvalde skewl po-leece hefe Arredondo is a contributor to “Hell Yeah I’m Gonna Take Your AR15” Beto “Dork” O’Rourke’s campaign. There’s no doubt Arredondo was on the phone with Beto immediately upon learning the violent school-shooter Democrat was armed with an AR in an effort to see how they could exploit the tragedy to advance his pal Beto’s (and the Democrats) agenda. I want to see Arredondo’s cellphone records for the entire day.

      • That would be an interesting read. And I can picture a duplicitous little shit like Orourke saying ‘let it develop a little first’ or something. As long as he can maintain Plausible Deniability™ that is. Some people just cry out for a bit of waterboarding.

  20. @Rider/Shooter
    “…I’m having a tough time agreeing with all that reasonable apologism…”

    It’s not apologia, but a cold blooded analysis of the preposterous demand that ill-trained, poorly skilled, irresponsibly vetted police perform to a level they are incapable of.

    If “the system” produces defective/incompetent/unreliable cops, it is not appropriate to criticize the incapable. This isn’t a manly-man issue, but one of whether effectively crippled persons should be put in situations they cannot overcome, and then be blamed for being crippled.

    “The system” either operates properly and effectively, or it doesn’t. “The system” belongs to the voters who delegate police power to elected/appointed officials. Failure to ensure “the system” operates properly is the responsibility for those who allowed the system to be put in place.

    If “the system” trains and conditions cops to avoid conflict, to put their personal safety above everything else, it makes no sense to rail against the cops that are produced. A flawed/bad system cannot produce excellent results. Like everything else in politics, we get that which we create, or allow.

    Rather than presume cops will always perform to the highest standards we can conjure, we should be vigilant that the system which produces those cops is capable of achieving that outcome.

    Haven’t yet figured out the appropriate “hook”, but it seems ironic that so many here are in a moral meltdown, filled with emotional screeds, just like the “woke” crowd.

    IAW US Census 2020, there are 78.2mil children in the country. Statistically, the number of children lost to school shootings is insignificant. Cold calculation of data indicates that more children die from: the average number that die in bathtubs is 86/yr; the number who die from auto accidents (2010-2014) was 18,000; 398 children died in swimming pools in 2016; 2015, drug deaths (15-21) were 4600+; 2016 – 2560 children died by suicide. The number of children who die in school shootings? 169 since 1999. (source: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/these-are-the-169-people-killed-in-school-related-mass-shootings-since-1999/3063890/) The average number of children killed in school shootings is 7. Yes, 7 average per year from 1999 to 2022.

    So, if we are bent on using facts, data and statistics to put forward the case for private ownership of guns for self defense (avoiding use of emotion for which we blame anti-gunners), facts, data and statistics must be the core of our analysis and understanding of school shootings.

    • Sam, obviously I can’t argue your Spock like analysis of where things could be improved (nor do I mean to because you’re not wrong) but I think you miss, or rather gloss over, my point: you’re not a cop and I bet you’d have gone in. I’m certainly no cop but I know for an absolute cold hard fact that I simply could NOT have not gone in. Many, many, many would do the same. Would we prevail? Maybe, maybe not but that’s hardly the point. The emotional screeds you see, mine included, are because we are pissed at the utter and complete repeated (systemic?) failure of those whose job it is to go in failed to do so. Again. And again. Including those who were, so we are told, eager to go in. They were ordered not to, an order they rightfully should have completely ignored. This has nothing to do with training and has everything to do with being a stand up individual as opposed to just another cog in a broken wheel. Shots were being fired. Children were screaming and dying. They heard this. Armed cops heard this, many of them probably parents of young themselves. The commanding but not commanding officer heard this. The children’s parents heard this. Fuck training. Fuck cold hard analysis. Go in. Immediately. They all knew this. Shoot your ‘superior officer’ in the damn face if you have to but go in. Immediately. Make it stop. It’s that damn simple when you are literally the one standing there with a weapon in your hands. Maybe even without. There simply is no other choice. None. If it plays out the same way next time, and I bet it does, then I vote we fire every cop on the continent and replace them with the military. No policing, just armed citizens (and teachers) and military patrols all over the damn place with no arrest powers. Just shoot to kill orders when shit goes down. Immeasurably better we utilize that resource here rather than across an ocean for grifters and profiteers. Watch this lunacy dissapear and crime drop 80% in two weeks. Maybe more than 80%. Sounds crazy but what do we, the people, do, let whoever is doing this continue to kill our children? I don’t believe you can train a person to ‘go in’, they have to have the intestinal fortitude to do so right from the start. Some of these guys no doubt did but they failed everyone including themselves when they obeyed their ‘orders’… obeyed their ‘training’. And the statistics saying 7 children per year average mean less than nothing to the nineteen that died that day. Or the others who perished on all the other days. Go in. Immediately.

      • “…everything to do with being a stand up individual as opposed to just another cog in a broken wheel.”

        But it really is about being another cog in a broken wheel. If all gun owners were 2A defenders, there wouldn’t even be a debate about gun control. If a permanent majority of 2A defenders existed, we wouldn’t be discussing gun control. If there was more “good” than “evil” in the world, “good” wouldn’t need to be fighting for natural, civil and human rights.

        Point is, the general public (the source of cops) isn’t molded in the John Wayne image. Indeed, “High Noon” was way ahead of its time pinpointing the real American public.

        Whether or not any one or dozen 2A supporters would have directly engaged the shooter at any mass/school shooting is irrelevant; most people are not built that way. Since self-preservation is a natural human instinct. Hoping for the majority of people to ignore that instinct in crisis is just not justifiable. If police are going to be recruited from the general population, then “the system” had better damn well be able to attract the valiant, and make them effective at conducting gun fights.

        As noted, if “the system” is only largely capable of fielding cops lacking the whatever it is that makes people charge into the guns, then blaming cops for self-preservation is unreasonable, and shifts blame from where it actually lies.

        These school shootings need to be approached with cold logic, not unbridled emotion. We end up sounding like anti-gunners, “If it saves only one…”

        And we sound silly proclaiming that “everyone is their own first responder”, then complaining when the hired first responders don’t do as we expect.

        • Sam, again, you’re technically correct as you so often are. But we’re not talking about most people or cogs in a broken wheel, we are talking about who is available at the moment of crisis. Of course many will not be up to the task but so very many would be, at least if they’re armed. Remember, we are talking about screaming children getting shot. You’re hearing those sounds, you’re there, you’re armed (to say nothing of being actually paid to deal with exactly this). If you just stand there staring at the wall with a gun in your hand then what’s even the point of any of it, guns, rights, the 2A, etc? Remember this also: we have an inherent urge to protect the young as well, even when not our own. I don’t believe analysis and training can solve this recurring issue of failure. The reactions we are seeing, along with the act itself, just aren’t natural. They are contrived, both the act itself and the (lack of) response. How do we train our way out of that? And no one is talking about John Wayne stuff either, this doesn’t require fabricated and idealized hero figures, it requires an understanding of the consequences, first the immediate consequences and then I guess the future ones. It requires a human response and I would never blame a weaker character or the unarmed etc for failing to have the courage but I will for sure blame a more suitable individual, be it an armed 25yr old citizen or (most certainly) an individual who signs up for the duty (we’ve had this particular conversation before). Again, no one can argue the points you are making but we need an emotional response at these times, not a hero mentality and not an expectation that analysis and training will save the day. Everyone on the continent is aware of these atrocities so anyone who sees fit to carry a weapon should have that conversation with themselves that they might be in exactly the wrong place (or hopefully the right place) at any given moment. Many like myself can thus build enough courage/determination to act through their undoubted fear at the critical moment. Many will fail. But that’s the non sworn. Expectations rise when you raise one hand and place the other on a sacred book. You suggest we need better material and I agree but I believe that material was actually on hand that day, in a timely fashion, but were ordered to stand down. Again. Their training WAS their failure point; they should’ve gotten all anthropological, displayed emotions such as anger and fear, done the human thing and said fuck you I’m going in. Now. Try training a body of cops to that conflicting degree. Sorry for all the words, I’m just kinda at the end with proffessionals and training and bureaucratic elitism bullshit. I might actually be killed soon over it in the name of public safety when they offer me a hundred bucks for my A2-Hbar I’ve had for decades. Sometimes you just gotta get mad. Sometimes you gotta go stone age. Sometimes you jusf gotta go in. Immediately. Whoever you might be or whatever vaunted training you may have is largely irrelevant at that point. Just go the fuck in. Immediately. Sort all that other thoughty nonsense and fear out later. Be the aggressor, even if your scared shitless. Or be a fucking weak ass coward and live in eternal shame. That choice and the repercussions are entirely on the individual and I’ll only ever ask for the heads of the ones who took that challenge, took that pay, looked that look and polished that public badge in our faces. If they fail… they pay. Cheers again Sam, Greg.

  21. “…we are talking about who is available at the moment of crisis.”

    Indeed. The “who” are the ones the people make available, through elected officials. If the “who” do not, cannot, perform to our expectations, do we blame the “who is available”, or the ones who made the “who” available?

    Or the ones who allowed the elected and appointed officials to put in place the “who” which fails to perform?

    It isn’t about how many people should be “manly-men”, and rush into the gunfire, it is about the ability of the ones made available. How do we blame the crippled for not being robust and capable beyond their abilities? Even if “we” could shame the “cripples” into resigning, from whence come the replacements?

    From “the system” we tolerate. And the beat goes on.

    • Well, we are never going to be able to screen for future valor or strength of character nor train that into individuals so we are left with the pool of what is available to draw from: us. Again, I don’t think the willpower to go in is what was lacking in this case. It was the willingness/training to follow orders that were just plain incorrect at the time, even without hindsight. Like I keep saying, sometimes you just gotta go in. Immediately. Uvalde and every other killing spree are those times. This isn’t news to anyone, especially those payed to take on that necessity. The problems lay higher than police response training or armed bystander happenstance and willingness. The orders not to go in, the real problem, come from higher up. How much higher up and how widespread is this is the real question. After the next four identical scenarios are people still going to be saying “there is no conspiracy” or “the problem is training”? Are you still going to be saying that, Sam? Occams razor is a thing.

      • “Like I keep saying, sometimes you just gotta go in. Immediately.”

        Understand. Reality is a significant number of people simply cannot, will not. Raging against the crippled is useless. Things are what they are.

        “Conspiracy”? It is curious these things keep happening, and the only “answer” is firearm confiscation. But, isn’t it “us”, the voters, who permit things to be as they are? Aren’t “we the people” responsible to keep the republic as it was founded? Why isn’t “our” message resonating with the vast majority of voters?

        The cops at Uvalde are just the bright object diversion. Keeping our anger focused on people who do as we expected them to (fail to act) do is allowing the “higher ups” to continue operating as they wish.

        • Sam, is this addressed to me or just in general? Each paragraph is things I’ve already stated: I’m not raging against the machine as it is what it is, I just have come to believe that these things are being arranged along with orders being passed down (not necessarily from politicians) to let them happen. Wether they are or not only matters if we find out, then we can change that. Until that point the order to stand down/wait must be ignored. All training g is now focused on going in, immediately, yet that’s not happening and when groups of cops are assembled its not because of cowardice, it’s because they’re being ordered to abandon their training. Fuck training. Go in. Immediately. Kill your commanding officer if you have to, he then deserves to die anyway. Shoot the parents too if they instead argue for an abundance of caution. Whatever. Cripples? Who expects the unfit or the unarmed to step up? Not me and I said as much. Conspiracy? At this point it’s more likely than not likely given Occam’s razor but only just. Reality? I’m all about the reality: go in. Immediately. At least those who are up to it and absolutely those who sign up for it, which they absolutely did, every last one of them. I’ll assume you are speaking in generalities and not trying to counter any of my points by halfway repeating them 😉.

  23. @Rider/Shooter
    “…I just have come to believe that these things are being arranged along with orders being passed down (not necessarily from politicians) to let them happen. Wether they are or not only matters if we find out, then we can change that. Until that point the order to stand down/wait must be ignored.”

    Thinking that the very “cowards” who are being excoriated will not abandon training that keeps them safe while waiting for orders. The same “cowards” cannot be expected to suddenly grow a pair, shoot their commanders, and rush in to stop a mass shooting.

    We should not be outraged when people act in their best interest (self-preservation). We should not expect those who cannot, will not, rush into the gunfire to somehow overcome their natural inclination simply because children are involved.

    “Training” is important, because real training is not an annual trip to the range, or shoot house. Real training is frequent and consistent such that people revert to their training, not their natural instincts.

    The best way to find out if these horrible events are planned/coordinated/convenient to “higher ups”, it to flush “the system” at the local level, then work upward. If incidents fade into history, or insignificance (one every decade or so?), because new, effective leadership has been installed, then we know what we need to know. Rinse; repeat.

    Seems that where we differ is placing the instant blame. I just find no value in blaming the incapable. They will be replaced with more of the same (as “the system” remains unchanged).

    On the rest, we are harmonized.

    • Sam, I think we only differ in that you originally posed the notion that training and selection is what needs to be improved. Again, can’t argue that although I think it’s already largely in place and the ‘selection’ part is an unrealistic expectation. And I’m not ‘blaming’ anybody other than the cops on-site and only for this one particular failing: they should have not only understood that they are actually going against their (current) ‘training’ by obeying an improper order to stand down or ‘wait’ (for whatever) but acted on that understanding and gone in. Immediately. I think resources/training are already in place but yes, could always be improved and expanded. The failure isn’t on the majority of the cops (the solitary, aging, overweight resource officer with only a handgun and a golf cart hiding behind a pillar being a different kettle of fish) but in their commanding officers and, as I now believe, the pressures/threats/whatever put on them to delay entry. And I don’t mean all commanding officers, only those select few where an ‘event’ is being orchestrated 👀. It wouldn’t take much to accomplish that or, really, even to arrange such an ‘event’. So it isn’t actually that we differ in the general sense, I just think your proposals, while rational, aren’t addressing the root causes. But yeah, many of the cops that are prepared to go in inwardly breathe a big sigh of thank fuck and sieze on the excuse of being ordered to wait. That’s unfortunate (as well as wrong) but some, many or even all were initially ready to go… until ordered not to. I think it’s time, as you also mention, to look further up the food chain.

      • “I just think your proposals, while rational, aren’t addressing the root causes.”

        IIRC, I noted that the root cause was “us”, “we the people”, for not holding elected and appointed officials to account. Now, if voting doesn’t matter (because non-voting elements are actually controlling everything), then perhaps, perhaps, “we the people” aren’t completely responsible for the government we tolerate.

        • Yes, you did and no, maybe we aren’t. Maybe I should’ve said branches instead of roots, or the fungus within and feeding off of the roots…

  24. @Rider/Shooter
    “Wow. She’s, like, much… bigger now.”

    Had nothing to compare with, but pictures and movies always add 10lbs to appearance. Was impressed a female is the national champion for quick draw. Didn’t know Canadians were interested in cowboy shooting at all.

    • Dammit, my tenth long winded reply seems to have been sucked into another dimension. Oh well, you aren’t missing much 😉.

    • A shorter version: the ten pounds prob only accounts for the new jeans and a longer gun belt and yup, lots of guns and CSSA stuff up here. Our southernish brothers from the same mother often mistake Canada as being only Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Far from the case, Sam. We are much the same. I’ll go further; given the 2A, we pretty much would be the same.

      • “Our southernish brothers from the same mother often mistake Canada as being only Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.”

        You guys do have a very large fly-over zone up there: all trees, rivers, hills and lakes; dearth of people in the middle.

        One day, I should tell you about the great Canadian anti-freeze raid into border states.

        • Ha! I can totally see that happening! Did we apologize as we ran off with arms full? We’re only nice after we’ve already committed the dastardly deed ya know.

        • And on that note, it actually snowed here for near twenty minutes late last night!

  25. @Rider/Shooter
    “Maybe I should’ve said branches instead of roots, or the fungus within and feeding off of the roots…”

    Kill the tree (remove leadership that doesn’t provide desired results) and the branches and roots die. Or maybe the dead fish metaphor is a better fit.

    • “Kill the tree” … I can see the time approaching when that might actually become necessary. The rot runs to the core. If we must then I hope we replant with sturdier stock.

      • “I can see the time approaching when that might actually become necessary.”

        “The time” is every election. Ousting elected and appointed officials requires replacing them with people who see their job as service, not self aggrandizement.

        People thinking an armed revolt is necessary are people who can’t sell (or depend on others to do the job) traditional values. The “Left” has not taken power through force of arms. The “Left” is victorious because they provide more of what the voters want (Santa Claus will always win the popularity contest); freebies, and a sense of revenge against people they blame for their own failings.

        • Again, quite right with the exception that (honest) elections are more a pruning and grafting effort than a killing and a subsequent replanting. When the rot runs to the core and has spread too far then a killing becomes necessary lest the tree topple and take out our house, and possibly us with it. Even neighboring houses can be at risk. Gee, analogies are fun, I have no idea why the root word seems to be ‘asshole’! (Just noticed that little tidbit)

        • To be clear, I’m not advocating armed revolt, just can see the need for it when the time comes. Hope it never does but if I can walk I’ll be there. If I can’t walk I’ll drive. If I can’t drive I’ll just continue drinking.

        • Pfft, the moderators are hard at work again I see (a short follow up to this last reply). So much for letting freedom ring.

  26. @Rider/Shooter
    “Ha! I can totally see that happening!”

    Was stationed in Minot, ND in the mid-70s. At the time, the exchange rate between US and Canadia was five cents to the northern advantage. Merchants in the border states were known to charge a five cent service charge for taking Canadian money at retail locations. It was all the rage to giggle about how the Americans had bested the Canadians, despite the exchange rate favoring the north; especially in the winter months when Canadians came south for cheaper engine anti-freeze.

    A coupla years later, there was a serious shortage of anti-freeze in the US. People in the border states went north to buyout the Canadians (who mysteriously had an ample supply of anti-freeze). Americans paid quite the premium (in US dollars) to obtain anti-freeze from Canadians. And complained loudly that Canadians were using the shortage to gouge Americans.

    Most Americans had absolutely no idea how ironic and sweet was the well justified Canadian revenge

    Years later, was in a unit that included RCAF officers and personnel. The exchange rate was ten cents to the disadvantage of Canada. One of the Canadians asked me to change Canadian currency into US. I made the exchange even-steven. The Canadian was stunned, and asked why I did that. Told him that the exchange rate required me to work in coinage, which was just a hassle. An even trade was less a burden on me.

    • Interesting, and quite amusing. I wasn’t aware of the Great Antifreeze Raids. And yeah, I’ve never worried on the small change either. Might explain much 😉.

  27. @Rider/Shooter
    “And on that note, it actually snowed here for near twenty minutes late last night!”

    “Oh, Canada”

    • I’ve mumbled that last bit quite a lot recently. Not pleasantly either. By the way, congrats on the recent SC ruling. Let Freedom Ring. Or at least breathe. With luck our courts are taking notes (not holding my breath though so I guess the blue face discoloration must be due to the continued Global Warming™).

      • “By the way, congrats on the recent SC ruling.”

        Taking it with a grain of salt. The reluctance of the Supremes to deal with the issue is highlighted by the fact that awhile back, after Heller, the SC took three cases, in four years, related to union dues.

        The ruling has already been dismissed by the current DOJ, vowing to vigorously defend existing federal gun control laws.(That means continue to charge and prosecute under existing law.) The makings of a true “Constitutional Crisis”; Executive Branch telling the Judicial Branch to stuff it.

        Short of yet a future case where the SC overturns Bruen, the current SC ruling will have little practical value….except for lawyers.

        • This struck me as well. It would be nice to see some absolutism in the decisions such as “henceforth, forthwith, in entirety and subject to review only upon Constitutional Convention overturning the Amendment involved”. Almost seems like they are practicing job security. Still, it is one small step for man, if not a giant leap. I have no doubt the litigation of litigations will set the nation back another few billions of dollars, or a truck tanker full of gas, whichever is worth more in the next few years.

  28. “I have no doubt the litigation of litigations will set the nation back another few billions of dollars, or a tanker full of gas, whichever is worth more in the next few years.”

    While the concept has yet to be tested (which I don’t really understand the delay), the anti-gunners have the financial ability to completely bankrupt every pro-2A organization in existence. If not bankrupt, induce pro-2A organizations to exit the field due the being unable to keep up with legal attacks. First thought….I would use the Californication law allowing citizens to sue everyone in sight for enabling the gun industry to remain viable, including pro-2A organizations and law firms.

  29. @Rider/Shooter
    “If I can’t drive I’ll just continue drinking.”

    Way ahead of you, old bean; way ahead.

    In order to drive, have to find my keys. To find my keys, have to know which room they are in. To find the room the keys are in, have to know which room I am in.

    Wasting away in Martiniville.

  30. We could debate the Conspiracy Theory to the point of ad nauseum, but whether there was or wasn’t doesn’t change the fact that a high number of responding LEO’s “SCREWED THE POOCH” at Uvalde.
    Everything they did was wrong. There’s no defending it.

  31. The Uvalde Police Dept. should be charged with taking money under false pretenses, or at the very least, be required to back up to the pay window.

  32. @Wildrumpus
    “NIMS does not determine who, person or agency, is in charge.”

    Nice expansion on the question. Thanx.

  33. It takes a special breed of man to stand, heavily armed, armored, shielded, outside of a place where screaming, pleading children are being killed inside, mere yards away. That is passive behavior, reinforced by cowardice. THEN, to disarm a fellow officer and remove him from the scene by force, which was done to the officer whose wife was mortally wounded and asking for help inside, just reinforces the knowledge and gut reaction that the police on the scene who ordered and/or did these things MUST BE REMOVED FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT for cause, and never again be trusted with authority and deadly force in our society. Civil action to crush their future certainly seems warranted.

  34. this was a deep state operation, the criminal person in charge intentionally had his people stand down so that children could be killed. This criminal must be held responsible for all 21 deaths and must be tried, found guilty and executed for his CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND MURDER.

  35. Guys Please! Back on subject (How did Canada get involved in an incident thousands of miles away?). This was an abject failure by LEO. PERIOD! The officers there did not have to wait on someone to tell them to go. It’s a school FULL OF KIDS! I hope those LEO’s involved in tHE debacle are having trouble sleeping at night.

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