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Holding 11+1 rounds in its micro-compact magazine, it’s no mystery that the Springfield Armory Hellcat, reviewed by Dan here, has its sights set squarely on the famously standard-setting 10+1-round SIG Sauer P365 (reviewed by John Boch here and followed up by me here). Even though SIG wasn’t the first to shoehorn double-digit rounds of 9×19 into a “mouse gun” — heck, the Kel-Tec P-11 came out in 1995, has always held 10+1, and is the same or smaller than the P365 in length, width, and height — they sure enjoy the credit for it.
And P365 sales have been good. Extremely good.
No surprise there. The CCW pistol market continues to grow and the P365, after some initial reported QC issues, has proven to be a fantastic gun. The one in these photos is mine and it has been my EDC for nearly 18 months now.
A highly abbreviated version of my SIG SAUER P365 review would be: it’s teeny and easy to carry, holds 10+1 rounds in its flush mag, has a great trigger, great sights, has been 100% reliable with every possible type of ammo, and typically makes me look like a better shooter than I really am because it just shoots so freaking well for a micro-compact.
So I’m going into this as an obvious fan of the P365 and, to be completely candid, with some personal umbrage toward Springfield Armory. But that’s my thing and I’m not here to tell you what to think, just what I think about these two firearms with all emotion and external factors disregarded entirely.
In the hand the Hellcat has squarer edges whereas the P365 is rounder. The Springfield is boxier. This isn’t a negative, though, as it fills up a dude-sized hand better and is perfectly comfortable.
Somehow the backstrap on the Springfield ends up longer than on the SIG but the frontstrap ends up shorter. Again, in practice I didn’t find an advantage to one over the other. Possibly one of the two will print more at a certain angle or when carried in a certain location and the other wouldn’t. But we’re talking really small differences here and any advantage could easily be reversed in a different location at a different angle.
In fact, that’s more or less the name of the game in the P365 vs. Hellcat matchup. Where there are differences, they’re dang small ones.
Except, perhaps, for the additional round of 9mm the Hellcat magazine holds. Yes, yes, what’s one measly round? Well, it’s a 10 percent bump in capacity, that’s what. That’s nothing to sneeze at in a segment made hugely popular exclusively because of increased capacity over the competition. The SIG is the competition; the Hellcat holds 10 percent more ammo.
The Springfield pistol also has a one-slot Picatinny rail, whereas the SIG’s rail is a proprietary design. Now, considering how short the Hellcat’s accessory rail area is anyway, you’ll find that various lights don’t actually fit, but many will. Choices for the SIG have to be made exclusively for the SIG.
Grip texture on both mini gats is extraordinarily similar.
Length, width, and height are all so-freakin’-close to each other. The two pistols weigh within like half an ounce of each other.
Though the published stats are typically for maximum width, on average, and including through the entire grip frame, the SIG P365 is just slightly slimmer than the Springfield Hellcat.
The positive aspects of a skinnier frame are obvious for a concealed carry gun, but there are some positives to that ever-so-slightly wider frame, too. Namely, the Hellcat has a marginally wider magazine well with a more pronounced taper/funnel around the perimeter.
Lots of commenters requested photos of one gun on top of the other, but their silhouettes are so darn close there’s very little to see. In the photos above and below, the two pistols are obviously resting on their sights and I’ve lined up the muzzles with a straight edge (also known as the spine of one of their magazines). Seen above is the P365 in front of the Hellcat.
And this is the Hellcat in front of the P365. No earth-shattering revelations here. The biggest difference is likely the angle of the magazine baseplate, with the SIG’s canted toe down. The Springfield’s is almost imperceptibly canted toe up, but for all intents and purposes, is parallel with the bore.
One meaningful difference that was apparent almost immediately were the slide serrations. The Hellcat’s look good but they’re so dang shallow they’re approaching aesthetic in nature only. With the optic mounted I tend to just karate chop the darn thing, so no concerns there. But without the optic it’s surprisingly easy to slip right off the back of the Springer’s slide.
Not helping matters is the fact that the Hellcat has a stiffer recoil spring. Not hugely stiffer, but it’s very clearly noticeable. So it takes a little more force to rack the Hellcat’s slide and it has some of the least effective slide serrations going.
While I realize that, in the photo above, the P365’s serrations don’t look like anything special, they are sufficiently deep with sufficiently square edges that they’re completely and confidently functional. I’m afraid that Springfield may have let the industrial designers win an argument with the engineers on this one.
I could say the opposite about each company’s most extended magazine offering, though. While the Hellcat’s 13-round mag smoothly and seamlessly extends the grip, the P365’s 15-round mag leaves a weird ledge on the backstrap that goes unfilled. The P365’s 12-rounder, however, is of the flawless extension variety with a forward-angled pinky ledge that feels great and a curved, backstrap-matching rear portion.
Weird backstrap transition issues aside, I have been carrying the 15-round job as my backup magazine and, on the range, it shoots just fine.
Speaking of the range…
This is where the rubber really meets the road. Especially between two guns that are, up until this point and for all practical purposes, almost identical.
I shot a magazine through my SIG. I shot a magazine through the Springfield. I shot a magazine through my SIG, then a mag through the Springfield. Rinse and repeat a half dozen times.
Then I put a Range at Austin target out to 7 yards and fired 10 rapid shots at the head of the silhouette with my P365 as fast as I could line up the sights just well enough to feel I’d probably stay in the blue; legit rapid-fire. They all stayed in the silhouette and a couple or few started to bore a larger hole right in the center of the group. Nice.
I then did the exact same thing with the Hellcat (no optic). The group above shows both groups of 10 rounds shot on top of each other. Literally the same dispersion in the same place, with a few more enlarging that center hole.
Clearly I should have done a before-and-after photo, but I wasn’t planning on including this in the review — I just thought it was funny and interesting that I couldn’t tell which rounds came from which gun and they seemed to just put ’em in the same place with the same overall spread.
So I shot 10 rounds through each gun standing, off-hand, at 15 yards. These groups are nearly identical in size.
Both pistols have excellent triggers. While the P365’s is “better” in the classical sense in that it’s lighter (about 4.5 pounds) and slightly crisper and has a shorter reset, I could easily argue that the Hellcat’s is “better” for CCW purposes. It’s a clean and nice trigger with a pronounced, fairly short reset, but weighs in at a heavier ~5.5 pounds.
Overall the SIG’s trigger is a better trigger when taken on its own (it even feels better on the finger), but paired with the intended use of these little guns it’s my opinion that the pull weight of the Springfield is more appropriate.
I preferred the all-black rear sight and eye-grabbing front sight setup of the P365 to the Hellcat’s white U-notch rear and eye-grabbing front. Then again, I do like shooting a pistol with an optic and Springfield is only charging $30 more for the optics-cut Hellcat. That’s awesome.
Dan and I both agreed that the P365 shoots slightly softer than the Hellcat. Hard to say why, but there was a just-noticeable increase in sharpness with the Springfield. That’s almost grasping at straws here, really, to find any meaningful difference in the shooting experience between these two guns.
The fact is, they feel in the hand and shoot on the range like fraternal twin brothers.
I have close to 2,000 rounds through my P365 without one single hiccup, and Dan put his almost 700 through the Hellcat in the course of its review, including mixed hollow points and other stuff, and then I piled on a couple hundred more with four different brands and types of ammo. It’s another zero-failures-of-any-sort-whatsoever success case since leaving the box.
When the dust settles the Springfield Hellcat has its additional round of capacity up its sleeve and the OSP version is optics ready, but it’s left holding rather slippery slide serrations. Perhaps, after all, that optics mount is the single largest difference between the two.
If the extra round doesn’t tip you to the Springfield side and you have no plans to run an optic, it’s such a tossup between the Hellcat and the SIG that for many buyers it’ll probably come down to brand loyalty or opinion, place of manufacture (the P365 is made in New Hampshire, the Hellcat in Croatia), and perhaps aesthetics.
Of course, that extra round and optics mount are absolutely nothing to sneeze at. The Hellcat is a fantastic pistol and it more than holds its own when compared head-to-head with the P365.
Specifications: Springfield Armory Hellcat 9mm Pistol
Height: 4″ (flush magazine), 4.5″ (extended magazine)
Barrel Length: 3″
Overall Length: 6″
Width: 1″
Capacity: 11+1 (flush magazine), 13+1 (extended magazine)
Weight: 17.9 ounces
MSRP: $569 (Std), $599 OSP (OSP) model – $499 and $529 retail
Where To Buy
Specifications: SIG Sauer P365
Height: 4.3″
Barrel Length: 3.1″
Overall Length: 5.8″
Width: 1″
Capacity: 10+1; optional 12+1 and 15+1
Weight: 17.8 ounces
MSRP: $599 (as low as $499 via Brownells)
Where To Buy
Read our full review of the Springfield Hellcat here.
Thank you, Jeremy.
I get my hands on a Hellcat for T&E in the coming days.
Seems Springfield forgot to put me on their list for T&E copies. I wonder why?
John
I’m sure it was a simple oversight, nothing personal. 😋
As FYI I am having issues with my Hellcat ftf on Sig V Crown both 115 and 124 grain HP and also Black Hills.Already returned once to Springfield and still having same issue. I just emailed two videos to them showing it failing to feed and they tested it with Federal HST JHP and it does feed that flawless as I tested myself. Springfield Service is no very good so far. If you would test some with the Sig ammo and see how it goes as like to know if mine is a one off vs. a common problem they have being finicky with some ammo.
I too, am having issues with the Hellcat misfeeding as well as, I think the accuracy at 25 yards is horrible. The first round that comes out of the gun, is always far to the left I mean off the target far to the left, even adjusting I can pull it in but it is normally low and to the left, nice grouping and all but still, that first round is just off into oblivion (I’ve had others fire this weapon and responded, where the heck did that first round go?)
I know this isn’t a fair comparison however, my S&W MP40 Shield, first round out dead on bullseye. Rapid fire still brings the group in around the bullseye.
Can someone tell me if there is something wrong with the rail? The sites look aligned with the factory etching however, I would have to give the HellCat a failing grade.
To update Springfield sent me a replacement handgun and let me pick a different Model as I did not want another Hellcat. From that standpoint they were fair with me.
Nice comparison but I’m not interested in either gun. Springfield for their deceit in selling out Illinois gun dealers and Sig for their rush to put the product out and have so many malfunctions early on. I just can’t trust a pistol that doesn’t work all the time no matter how much Sig assures me that all the bugs are fixed. Screw the 365 and piss on springfield.
Piss on Springfield. Three of the small gun shops that I used to shop at south of the state capitol are gone because of them.
Roger that!
Importing crap. Building junk. Copying others. Selling out the 2A. The Springfield Armory name is forever stained and nothing can change that. Shut the company down, and let someone honest use the tooling and dies to make something worthwhile.
Hellcat? Hell no!
Assuming for the moment that your take on SA and the Dealer Licensing Bill was, in fact, accurate, and the solution was to punish them for it, what manufacturers are there left to buy from?
Colt after they decided that the public can’t be trusted with ARs?
S&W for all of their anti gun actions?
Ruger for Bill Ruger’s insistence that 10 round magazines should be the limit for civilians?
There are likely others I am not aware of or have forgotten about…
As to SA and RRA, they made a mistake in the lobbyist they hired and a further mistake when they gave him too much authority. They should admit to that mistake, but they haven’t done that to the best of my knowledge. What they did do was strongly oppose the 2nd, 3d, and 4th version of the Dealer Licensing Bill. They also fired the lobbyist that made the first deal and replaced him.
We have that law because the gun owners in Illinois did not strongly support Gov. Rauner in his bid for reelection. The responsibility is ours.
Wrong. Wrong. And wrong.
Digging up Bill Ruger’s decisions from the 1960s and 70s is not the same as 2019. And colt made a financial decision. You cannot be such a snowflake there Chance. Grow a pair and enter the world as it is today. Stop whining. Sell your XD or better yet toss it in the river. Get yourself a Glock and a smartphone. The real world is waiting.
I agree I think I got screwed on this Springfield if only there were a lemon law for handgun, the Hellcat would certainly qualify…
It’s the first and last Springfield I will ever purchase… the dealer actually talked me into purchasing it… The only other CCW I owned back in the late 80’s was the Colt Mark IV Govt Model .380 auto. A nice weapon, accuracy at anything over 25 yards was terrible however, it never fired like this Hellcat, again I will never purchase another SA… Staying with S&W or Glock…
Or maybe it’s you whiners about inaccuracy at 25yds just couldn’t hit a bull in the ass with a banjo. Put my buddy’s to a 300 round test and they went where I put them. That’s with cheap ammo too.
Awesome. Jerry Miculeck shows up and tells y’all how it is.
I own 2 365s and just bought my 2nd Hellcat. Hellcats are great guns and quite accurate.
Only thing wrong with the Hellcat is the baby behind the trigger
Yup. Never seen a Glock malfunction (Perfection dontchaknow). Never seen a high end 1911 malfunction either (cuz of course you get what you pay for). And don’t even get me started on those horribly unreliable AR-15s… haven’t you heard that some malfunctioned back in Nam?? Now there’s a platform that will never be reliable. NEVER I TELL YA!!!
/sarcasm
P365 & P365XL are good platforms. I have fired a P365 with Flush Fitting Mag and I like it. The P365XL seems like a better package than the Glock offerings according to the reviews I’ve read.
I’ll keep my G43 as I have configured it. Remember that the G43 predated the P365 by some 4+ years (March, 2015 vs June, 2019) and really showed them the way. Good work SIG, as I would probably buy the P365 package today. the one with the 3 12 round pinky finger mags from PSA.
After shooting both the 365 and the 365XL, I bought the XL. Liked the feel of the longer grip of the XL, like the feel of the flat trigger, longer barrel (about a 1/2”) and cut out for optics. Shoots really well. When you get the itch, you should check it out!
Check the Sig P365 XL when you rack the gun (empty) and dry shoot hold the trigger and try to rack the slide again to test the reset. They say it slide locks up and takes lots of force to break it free. That is a huge problem, will not buy one until its fixed. Keith
Does my heart good to read below and see that I’m not the only one that holds a grudge. Heck I’m still pissed at Smith for the Clinton deal. I really gotta figure out a way to relax sometimes.
Smith has a different owner now. Bill Ruger is long dead. SA changed their ways, but it still belongs to the same people
Yelp .. right there with you on this one .. probably hit the range that’s my therapy!.
Don’t forget Sig Sauer LYING on “end user” certs too, got a few higher ups ARRESTED in NH.
SA and SS can jam it IMHO.
I actually import rare/interesting small arms every year or two, SS bringing added scrutiny and cost is UNFORGIVABLE. A company screwing it up for the little guy need to be ignored.
Sig p365’s are rusting… mine did too. Sticking with my G43….
Piss on Springfield Armory for selling out the 2 A,they will never produce a arm that I have any interest in.
They make an extremely solid product.
The IMPORT and extremely solid product.
Yep, don’t jam and don’t rust. I have three Springfields and have never had any problems whatsoever. Some people just don’t like the feel or look of a Glock. I have two Glocks and never have problems with them either.
Hmmm. What’s this we have here?
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000056704&cycle=2014
Interesting to say the least…its also interesting at the number of people that post “Screw SA” but every Hellcat is sold before it gets to the store.
Just because a horse stumbles once you don’t shoot it…..now if it becomes a habit.
Hmm, I have a 9mm Taurus PT111 G2 – about the same size and features, very reliable, and 12+1 capacity. And there are aftermarket upgrade options (night sights, springs). All for half (or less) than what these SIG and Springfield pistols cost. I don’t think I’m gonna consider getting one of the new ones (unless it’s a gift).
If you would rather trust your life to a Taurus versus a Sig over 2-300 bucks be my guest. I know which brand more experienced shooters are going to choose the majority of the time (365’s initial release growing pains aside). My 365 currently has about 1100 rounds through it with zero malfunctions so they’re working flawlessly for me and countless others.
Yes, I would trust my life to a Taurus. But you may be sure it was only after running hundreds of rounds through it to test it for reliability and accuracy (just as I would have done with any gun intended for carry). And isn’t that the main consideration for a carry gun? Price is secondary, but in my case low price (my Taurus was $239) was attractive, and if the pistol hadn’t been reliable, I wouldn’t have been out much money. Another advantage is that if I have to use my low-price Taurus for a self-defense shooting and the cops impound it as evidence, I can get another one for not much money. So I have no problems with gun snobs criticizing my Taurus – I know what I’ve got. It’s just like cars – both a VW bug and a Jaguar XJ12 will reliably get you from point A to point B – it just depends on what bragging rights you want to go with it.
I have a Taurus G2 that I’ve put probably 2000 rounds through. Not a single failure. So it’s probably as reliable as the SIG. I just got my wife a 365 and I like shooting it better than the Taurus. The SIG just seems to fit better and conceals easier.
Don’t be running down Taurus just because it costs less
It’s not just that it costs less. Gun people have long memories, and Taurus has a VERY poor reputation when it comes to quality/reliability. They’ve been working hard to rectify this the past few years, but they still have a long ways to go before they successfully overcome the stigma they rightfully earned.
And, once you reach a certain (financial) point in life, money becomes far less of a concern. 10 years ago, I would have considered buying a Taurus that was known to be reliable (I very nearly bought a TCP, but couldn’t find one in stock, so I ended up with an LCP instead), but these days I make over twice as much money as I used to, so spending an extra $200 for a Glock or Smith & Wesson is totally worth it for me, just for the peace of mind. That being said, I won’t ever bash Taurus people, or even Hi-Point people, because I used to be poor, so I know what it’s like. I think it’s fantastic that there are solid, reliable firearm options available for pretty much any price point these days.
But, that being said, I won’t be buying a Taurus any time soon. No offense, lol.
Gee, Steve. We’re all so impressed that you “used to be poor” but now you are rich. *swoon*
Don’t worry, Mikial. If you lay off the booze, weed and start to work hard, maybe even you can get to the point where extra $200 for better pistol is not a big deal.
Nothing wrong with not being poor.
My wife has the Taurus PT111 G2. It seemed like a nice little easily concealable 9mm. After about 200 rounds it now takes between 30 and 40 trigger pulls to fire 10 rounds. We are going to send it back. It is junk.
So you talk about reliability and the conveniently ignore problems with reliability by calling them “growing pains” when it’s a brand you like? Okay.
Let’s see… outside of a surplus 229 I bought from Aim the P365 is the only Sig I have ever owned. Must be a total fanboy right? The problems with the initial Sigs were highly publicized in much the same way that mass shootings account for a small amount of gun homicides but receive the bulk of the publicity. The return rate for even the initial batch were well within industry standards it was not like most of the first gen pistols had problems.
If you are going to use cost of a gun == how much your life is worth argument, why are you trusting your life in a $500 SIG when you could be trusting your life in a $10000 super custom 1911? Do you value your life so little?
They’re really not in the same size class. The taurus is more along the lines of a g26 with a longer grip. The p365 is about the same size as a g43. It really does seem like dark sorcery that they were able to get ten rounds into a gun that is VERY close in dimensions to a g43. When it comes to this class of gun there’s a big difference between something g26 and g43 sized. However Taurus does have them on price, I’m sure they’ve sold a metric butt ton of the g2’s.
Agreed. I carry one daily and shoot it weekly with no malfunctions to date after a couple of years. For those that still harp on the “Would you trust your life to a Taurus” bandwagon, you buy what you want and I’ll but what I want.
I have also love my Taurus guns. I have a PT58 .380 that I have owned since new in the 1980’s. The other is a snub 38. I have shot a few thousand rounds through the .380 and it has never failed me. Not as many rounds for the 38 but still a great little revolver. Don’t let anyone put you down for the Taurus mfg.. I love all of my handguns but have a soft spot for the .380. I love to shoot it as much as my new Glock 43.
Among other firearms I’ve got Taurus’ .38 snub, a Judge (great on woods tromping jaunts with .410’s for snakes), and two TCP’s. All are reliable. In regard to the TCP’s, they are sweet little pistols. In my view the Spectrum, which replaced the TCP, is not nearly as good as the TCP. Taurus may have dropped the ball there.
But how do they compare to the Dodge Hellcat?
Not as loud.
Probably easier to carry.
Have you drop tested either one Jeremy?
No. Not the guns or the car. Though the P365 was extensively drop tested by SIG and by tons of consumers and gun rags because it was released at SHOT 2018 and the whole P320 thing broke about six months prior to that. So pretty much the first thing a lot of people did was drop and mallet the hell out of it haha
But did you drop test the Dodge?
I keep asking for a T&E sample for that and they appear to be ignoring me 🤷♂️
Springfield Armory here in Illinois helped the democrats pass extreme new licensing laws on gun stores……they tried to pull back in the end when they were caught doing it, but the damage was done, and lots of small gun stores now are out of business…..and worse? The democrats are coming back for more, with increasing demands for over the top security features that small gun stores will not be able to afford. This was helped by Springfield Armory….they need to be punished…..lots of guns out there to buy, don’t buy theirs….
Well … If you all would stop votin for the D side you wouldn’t have that problem. Got the same problem in CA. just can’t stop some folks from being stupid once in a while and drinking the koool aid.
That’s easier to say than do. We have a huge plantation of D voters in Chicago, both home grown and imported.
If I were king I’d fix that. I’d handicap dense urban areas specifically so they can’t overwhelm more sparsely populated areas. The nice version would be electoral colleges per each state. The less nice version is stop sending food in.
I guess it up to the individual on which trigger feels better. Seen several utube vids preferring the Hellcat trigger. Hopefully get to see one soon.
I don’t get the trigger issue with some folks. I have a Tavor and Glock and I shoot them well. We can talk about creep, reset, break, pull weight, but my primary concern/factor on choosing any gun, is reliability (no/little malfunctions, eats all ammo, can run dirty) I told a few of my shooting buddies, just busting their balls, “hey, maybe you need to build up your gripping/finger strength and endurance.”
Their argument is that it is increased opportunity to affect sight alignment. I also think it’s much to do about nothing in practical terms (barring extremes).
Just something for old ladies to bicker about in reference to their toys.
I’ve owned many 9mm: Springfield (XD Mod2, XDS Mod2), Glock (G19, G43), HK (P30SK, VP9), Walther (PPQ, PPS M2), and Sig (P320C, P320SC, P938, P229, P226, P365).
To me, trigger is the single-most important factor in a firearm, and IMHO, Sig produces the BEST factory trigger out of the box. As a result, my Sigs outperform all other 9mm firearms I’ve owned in terms of shooter comfort and accuracy and it’s not even close.
And BTW I consider all of those firearms and manufacturers that I listed above as “reliable” and would trust my life to all of them. At the end of the day, trigger is key.
Yeah, all those trigger snobs just need to get stronger index finger. Tavor’s trigger is good and GLOCK is even perfection.
Same with the BMW and Ferrari drivers – what “handling” are they talking about? Kias drive just fine, you guys need stronger arms to handle the steering wheel better. Amiright?
Springfield bad. Springfield hate freedom. No buy Springfield.
No step on snek. Step on Springfield ok! 🙂
Any other 1″ thin, 10+ capacity, carry pieces in the works by any other manufacturers? Seems like something S&W, Walther, HK, Glock would be all over.
S&W seems to be riding the wave of going as thin as possible. I heard there was somebody trying to give the Shield treatment to the Shield (heh) but I’m not sure how much they can actually do.
Comparison in size for 365 vs p10s:
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/sig-sauer-p365-vs-cz-p-10-s
Posted on the wrong part of this thread; apologies.
CZ P-10S.
Picked mine up recently, and am very impressed. 12+1 capacity, but slightly bigger than these two overall.
Thanks for the comparo Jeremy. Seems like they are smidgens apart.
Not really interested in the Hellcat …because SA.
I almost bought a P365 when the Glock 48 came along.
I already have a 43 for EDC but the Sig is “roundier” and doesnt take all the fiddling to make the trigger better (I have Talo night sights).
Then Sig brought out the P365 XL. Slightly smaller than a Glock 48 and slightly larger than a P365…….???????
Decisions, decisions…..first world problems.
Thankfully the state of California will keep these unsafe firearms away from us civilians, so I won’t have to worry about purchasing either of them – heaven forbid an ELEVENTH round I a magazine (I mean who needs that many bullets?!).
Calguns.
Not to mention no mag disconnect on the G2C…
Winner: 1911.
Kel Tec’s P11 actually has a 12 round mag. Pity Ruger never tried to replicate it.
Yes, but we’re talking about pistols here not paperweights. I own a Keltec P11 and I would not depend on it in a fight. I went with the 365XL and carry the 15 round mag for my backup, same magazine with the alternate floor plate that ships with it.
I agree. I liked the Keltec but I’ve never seen a copy that didnt need a lot of tweaking.
I like the Sccy as well but I have friends that have issues with theirs as well.
I wish Ruger would copy the sub2000. That would be Yuge.
I bought a P11 back around 2000 and the thing malfunctioned constantly. I got rid of it pretty quick. My wife has a p365 with the thumb safety, which I like, and has never malfunctioned; it’s an excellent firearm. I usually carry an LCP 2 (which I love) but was thinking of getting a Hellcat just to have something a bit more substantial that’s still easily concealed and have something different from my wife. I’d probably still carry the LCP 2 most often though because it’s so easy and comfortable to carry and I’ve gotten fairly good at shooting it.
If we could buy directly from HS, I might pick one up. As a Springfield product, I’ll skip it.
I see the sig for 450 at the gun shows around Houston. Seems like a good deal to me.
I don’t know. Comparing all these Tubberware pistols seems like comparing apples to apples.
I am surprised there is not more difference in triggers. Although you don’t mention here, I have read the Hellcat has a nickel boron fire control group which I expected at least would provide a smoother trigger than the stamped metal P365 fire control.
The imitation of both to the original is a form a flattery but kinda sad that they can’t come up with anything on their own.
And just like at home panties aren’t exactly flying off in excitement over 1/10th of an inch either.
Absolutely hate the goofy U-Notoch sights on the Hellcat. Also, trigger dingus.
Main selling point of the 365 for many people is the lack of a trigger dingus.
Also the 365 can be had with a decently sized manual safety if that’s your thing.
The u-notch sights and other changes are suposed to prevnets snags, what snags? It’s for conceald carry, the draw stroke needs to be practiced with whatever civilian clothes are being worn. I personally rely on gross motor skills, but dont have snag issues. Hey, at least Sig is trying to innovate. I’d buy the regular p365 if I could.
No Springfield for me ever…I’m OK with my lowly Taurus 709 for now. Has ANYONE used Glow-On phosphorescent paint on their 3 dot sights? It looks pretty good as a low cost night sight option(I’m spending all my $ on AR15 stuff!).
I’ve had a P-11 for a couple decades now. Inexpensive and Light but that’s where the goodness ends. The DAO trigger is crappy enough even if you didn’t have a pinky dangling and I use an oiled Q-tip on the feed ramp every 50rnds or so, or even 115gr fmjs will fail to feed.
Oh… …and I’ve seen Glocks fail.
Springsteen should have called the new model
Roastinhell.
Sold my Glock to buy a P365 last year. No regrets! Better trigger, better sights, and 1200 flawless rounds later, I decided to buy a second p365.
There’s no way I will give Springfield Armory my money.
A P365 replaced my CC weapon of nearly 25 years (a Walther PPK/S .380) in February of this year. Why? Aging eyes. In low light drills, I was having increased difficulty with the PPK’s sights. The P365’s popped in the store when the owner dimmed the lights. I was sold. About 700 rnds through with no malfunctions. Feeds the Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P’s I carry without a hiccup. I prefer the 12 round magazines over the 10, and don’t really notice much difference in printing between the two. Going from 7+1 to 12+1 with an increase from .380 to 9mm was a bonus too, especially as the P365 is rated for +P ammo.
Not a fan of Springfield anyway, so the newest offering from them isn’t likely to change my opinion in general. Their past political machinations make that even more of a checkmark in the “Con” column.
I put a Crimson Trace laser on my PPK/S.
Increased my accuracy for 60 year old eyes.
I bought a 365 and out the Sig laser on it.
Now I can dual wield red and green laser pistols!
Thank you for giving credit to the Kel-Tec P11 as being the first micro 9mm with a 10+ magazine capacity, I feel this gun does not get the attention it deserves ! Just a small correction I’d like to point out, the P11 actually has a 12 + 1 capacity with a flush fitting magazine… It only comes from the factory with a 10 round magazine to keep it compliant with states that have magazine capacity limit laws. Factory 12 round flush fitting magazines are readily available, and cheap in price compared to other manufacturers. The P11 still holds the title for being the FIRST, SMALLEST, and HIGHEST CAPACITY micro 9mm on the market, and it does all this at less than HALF the price of the P365 & the Hellcat !
the P11 is discontinued
You are aware that even the G2c comes with 12 round mags from factory. And it has been doing that since the first PT111 (its previous version),
Not to mention restrike capability and can also fire without a mag inserted.
Great review, thanks for doing it, actually, made me think about just buying some upgrades for my Glock 26 like night sights and a new osp ready slide for less money with better egos and higher overall capacity.
I’m sick of hearing from people who maybe at best put a few rounds through their pistol every few months or so lecture about which are reliable and which are not. I shoot tens of thousands of rounds every year and do not discriminate regarding which pistol I take out any particular day. My oldest is a vintage Colt 1911 customized for serious competition. I have never had any malfunction of any kind. The SIG P320 has not in any of its caliber change configurations ever had a malfunction of any kind nor has it ever fallen down and shot me. And so on and so on, including but not limited to the P365. Of all firearms I have ever owned, the most consistent was the Glock 19 because it consistently malfunctions, about every 300-500 rounds of consecutive fire. It was a serious enough of a problem that I no longer carry a Glock for anything, I have enough more esthetic paperweights. Oh, if you don’t get through more than a few boxes of ammo every range outing you may not notice. I typically go through 500-1000 rounds each outing.
The duck on the back of the Sig is much more realistic.
The SA one looks like a 1980s video game duck, so no thanks.
Handled the Hellcat two separate times. aesthetically the 365 is more pleasing. The 365 feels better in my hand and feels more refined. Tolerances of the 365 are top notch. The extra round of the Hellcat in not even a consideration because of the optional mags offered by Sig. The Hellcat is another option for some but just having handled it twice it is it only took me a few minutes to put it down and walk away. My daily carry is the 365. Now, if I had to choose between the Hellcat and my G2, I go with the G2 because the Hellcat cost too much and offers nothing I do not already have in the G2.
The P365 feels softer because of it’s obviously lower bore axis. Yes, something like that matters.
I haven’t seen one reviewer mention the magazine cut out on the Sig P365 compared to the Springfield Hellcat. If a malfunction occurs and the magazine need to be stripped from the frame; it will be easier on the P365.
It’s always interesting to read the responses of people concerning firearms. I myself have many of the high end guns as well as the lower end priced guns. All I can say is it doesn’t take much to understand that machining of a firearm is part of the process figured into the cost of said gun.. In a higher priced firearm we expect the fit etc. to be better and it usually is. Since this is common knowledge I would just like to say since I have done smithing most of my life that any firearm can be made to be more reliable and better. What I don’t understand is this large sector of posts that always criticize the lesser cost weapon. Of course it costs less because this was put into the manufacturing cost. I have taken old AMT’s and worked them to be reliable. For all the people that want to go ahead and criticize the lower cost weapon go ahead. Also you need to educated yourself why they are cheaper. Anyone can through rocks. I know most people will agree.
can anyone tell me if there is a difference in recoil? I really like the Sig, Didnt have a Hellcat to compare. So this is all great stuff. My only question is in recoil.
Best side to side review of any two weapons, ever read. Love the photos!
I own a bunch of Springfields and they simply always work as good as any Gun made, I hate glocks because of the way they feel in my hand, the most unergonomic platform ever. In hundreds of reviews there is always a Springfield Gun in the top 10 as well as a Glock so to me it’s just the ole Chevy v Ford argument. As far as Micro Compacts go, I only ever carry them in summer otherwise I’m carrying the XDM Compact .40 with the 16 round extended mag. Out of 5 SPRINGFIELD’s with thousands of rounds never had a single failure. I’ll be watching the Hellcat for a while and then probably get one.
For all you holier than thou types:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000056704&cycle=2014
What do you even think that says? Sig employees gave to both parties but more to Republicans – so what? How can that possibly make you feel better about patronizing Springfield?
I’m completely baffled that anybody would contribute to any political party. I’d rather give it to St. Jude’s or the Salvation Army.
I know this is an older thread, but having just purchased a Hellcat, I think the review overlooked a rather obvious advantage of the Hellcat over the P365, & that’s the volume of room in front of the trigger. Rather important when wearing gloves.
As far as I’m concerned, I think that Springfield needs to produce a 10 round magazine for those of us that travel from state to state. If traveling in the socialist state of California, I hope you never get found with an 11 round magazine in your car (even in the trunk — separated from the ammo, locked up, etc, according to California law).
Perhaps this is the reason Sig stopped at 10 — seems to fit the “in vogue” 10 round limit — and is right sized for the pistol. The slippery slide and harder pull back of the Hellcat is also a concern. My 80 year old dad, can easily rack the P365 — not so with the others. I agree with the softer shooting feel of the P365. Measurably softer than my (now sold) Shield or any of the micro-compact nines I have shot.
I really love Springfield, but it does appear they were trying to out do Sig in the wrong areas — design looks vs functionality and 11 rounds which make me leave it home when I travel.
Finally, when statistically gun battles end after 3 shots (or less) and with the extremely small chance anyone will get in a gun battle defense situation (unless you are seeking that opportunity), it makes that extra round inconsequential in a self defense gun. But maybe you are that one in a million that will need it. Personally, I feel comfortable with the 10 round magazine in my P365 and I also feel comfortable with the 5 shots in my S&W J-Frame 38 revolver.
Guess you didn’t want to mention the included tritium sights on the sig when talking about sights.
IMO still Very close. But if it’s your carry gun, you’re not going to throw on optics. The sig is the better gun and a better package.
The only problem so far with the P365 is the 12rd mag is a P250 mag with a loose adapter spacer. Now that is cheap.
Wow not much love for SA any more. I just today handled a Hellcat with shield dot at my LGS. Was very impressed. Just wish I had the facts on what happened with their 2A issues since the net is full of such bullshit and haters and not to mention know it all’s.
My brand new Sig P365 would fail to go into battery, maybe every other magazine, the bullet jamming at the bottom right of the feed ramp. Two calls to Sig, and each time I was told I needed to put at least 500 rounds through the gun and polish the feed ramp before I could expect it to function properly. Did all of that and new magazines too, still would not work. I sent it back to them. They found the barrel was ‘not right’ so they replaced it and the recoil spring. It functions flawlessly now. In the mean time I bought a Hellcat, functions flawlessly, right out of the box and carries one more round than the Sig. Which one do you think I carry.
Retired Police Colonel; I encountered many types of handguns over the years. From gold plated guns to pocket rockets. We cut them all up after the court cases were adjudicated. All of them. I love America but out of hundreds of guns we destroyed only one stuck out. It was a small, pocket, no name, no serial, Russian pistol. We tried cutting it apart on a Industrial band saw, wore down the blade. We took it to the range and tried to get it NOT to work. Went bang every time. We put it though gun hell, still functioned. So much for “American made.” We finally cut it open with a grinder and torch. One tough gun! My point is it’s about the gun itself, not the location of birth or politics. Your life depends on it. Choose carefully, use wisely.
Hellcat issue. Had to return mine for failure to feed Sig HP and also Black Hills HP. They just sent back to me saying no issues found as they tested with Federal HST.
Anyone having issues? I took to range 3 times and had same issue even after cleaning it. Not happy at all.
I have been carrying the 365 since almost 18 months too, and I love it.
Tried the Hellcat for the first time yesterday.
Not a bad gun, don’t care about the extra round, don’t care about the red dot and I found that the Springfield had more recoil.
I’ll keep my SIG, because I love the gun on itself, love the brand, love the 15 rounds mag (not cheap unfortunately) and love the fact that it’s made in the USA.
I also have no interest in Springfield brand, yes I tried few and even owned one, no bad guns but never really felt in love with them, plus the fact that they stabbed us in the back (with RRA) a couple of years ago is not helping their case.
Great partial articles, lot of pics.
Once again great job guys.
Inspired from the tv series Yellowstone, this Kelly Reilly Blue Coat is poncho-style outerwear. Kelly Reilly portrayed the role of Beth Dutton, daughter of John Dutton in the series.
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