People have been throwing links to this video statement from PRIME Ammunition at us for a couple of days. PRIME has apparently been in a protracted dispute with their primary supplier, RUAG Ammotec, for some time now. A dispute that has broken out into public view and, according to CEO Jim O’Shaughnessy, has put PRIME “temporarily out of business.”
Here’s PRIME’s statement:
The video has resulted in some people taking up pitchforks and lighting torches on social media and the gun forums.
We reached out to RUAG for a their side of the matter and they provided us with this statement:
RUAG Takes Legal Action Against PRIME Ammunition for Outstanding Debt on More than 1.2 Million Rounds
Tampa, USA, April 17, 2019. RUAG Ammotec has taken contractually-defined recourse on Citizens Ammunition, LLC. RUAG has been loading the PRIME brand ammunition for several years. Well over a year ago Citizens stopped paying RUAG for the ammunition it sold and has refused to make any additional payments on the debt owed. This has forced RUAG to exercise its contractual rights through litigation and product sales.
PRIME Ammunition is delinquent on payments for more than 1.2 million rounds of ammunition sold and received. PRIME’s practice of selling and receiving product but refusing to pay caused RUAG to act to protect its interests. Any statements, claims or representations to the contrary are simply false.
RUAG’s dedication to quality, manufacturing excellence and deep product knowledge has supplied PRIME Ammunition and its fans and supporters with ammunition that stands out from the competition. Similarly, RUAG Ammotec supplies world class components, manufacturing resources and loaded ammunition to leading brands and companies around the world. RUAG Ammotec factory loads the most calibers of ammunition in the world and has production capabilities in five countries. The US market receives top ammunition options for anyone who hunts, shoots, competes, trains, protects, serves or defends from RUAG’s family of brands and products.
RUAG is confident that this matter will be resolved in its favour. RUAG looks forward to continuing to deliver exciting new products and high-quality ammunition to hunters and shooters across the country and throughout the world.
Media Contact: Tim Brandt, [email protected]
RUAG develops and markets internationally sought-after technology applications in the fields of aerospace, security and defence for use on land, in the air and in space. 57% of RUAG’s products and services are destined for the civil market and 43% for the military market. The Group is headquartered in Bern (Switzerland). It has production sites in Switzerland and in 13 other countries in Europe, the USA and Asia-Pacific. Around 8700 employees – of whom 430 are trainees – represent 48 nationalities and generate sales of some CHF 1.86 billion.
Based in Tampa, Florida, RUAG Ammotec USA, Inc. is a division of Europe’s leading manufacturer of small arms ammunition and OEM components, RUAG Ammotec GmbH. RUAG Ammotec USA, Inc. not only introduces Swiss, German, Swedish and Hungarian hi-tech offerings to the U.S. marketplace, but also leverages European offerings known for precision, reliability and innovation and combines them with disruptive U.S. components, know-how and partnerships to manufacture and deliver world-class small arms ammunition solutions for use by sports shooters, law enforcers and warfighters in the United States and abroad. RUAG Ammotec markets commercial product offerings under the Norma, Geco, Swiss P and Inceptor brands.
Now you’ve heard both sides. We’ve seen enough of these situations to know they’re rarely as straightforward as they appear. The truth usually lies somewhere in between the two parties’ positions. We’ll leave it to you to make your own judgements.
“We’ve seen enough of these situations to know they’re rarely as straightforward as they appear. The truth usually lies somewhere in between the two parties’ positions.”
Ayup. A judge will sort it out…
You can’t be a dead beat business associate unwilling to pay what is owed and expect to stay a solvent viable business. If it is as it’s said either pay what you owe and go on with business and life or suffer the consequences. Being boutique ammunition if it’s found that Prime hasn’t paid as they should and they do go out of business then just rebrand the ammunition and continue to sell it. Everyone wins that way.
This is what happens when the Bundy Ranch mentality hits reality. Prime’s wrapping itself in the American flag is not going to work this time. The CEO of Prime needs to lay off the false patriotic pandering and pay his bills. Had Bundy paid his grazing fees for his profited use of Public lands (not land he owns) , the militiaheads wouldn’t have got involved and dirtied up the place.
There is a a LOT more that went on with the Bundy situation than your mischaracterization suggests. The fact that not only did the Feds lose in court, but they essentially got thoroughly chewed out by the judge demonstrates that you’re simply wrong about the Bundy’s.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2018/01/08/cliven-bundy-ranch-standoff-case-retried-federal-court-ruling/1008051001/
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2017/12/15/federal-agent-alleges-u-s-misconduct-bundy-ranch-standoff/956525001/
Like it has been said, the details sometimes fall somewhere in the middle. However I do believe in the Bundy case the feds went beyond what they should have been allowed. In this case with Prime ammunition I still stand by what I originally said. Pay what is owed and go on with life and business if possible or suffer the consequences. Quite frankly this is what happens sometimes when a company starts on the back of another company doing the labor. If Prime does not like it then man up pay their bills and bring manufacture in house. They can’t have it both ways.
Those rulings have only to do with the stand off. The feds won every single case leading up to the stand off, including two trials and two appeals, resulting in a rather large judgment against Bundy. The stand off began when the feds sought to seize his cattle to settle its judgment against him. Bundy’s claim that he had a right to graze federal land without paying for the right to do so, based essentially on the claim that the feds were not the true “owner” of the land, was a bunch of crap.
Well actually the feds are not the true owners of the land. The people own that land and the people pay for the management of that land through taxes. The feds are just caretakers nothing more. Having said that in some respects he had a right in part just from being a tax payer. Without tax payers the feds don’t have money and therefore couldn’t manage a wet paper sack. If we’re going to lay it out there let’s put all the cards on the table. I don’t believe the feds should have been able to go as far as they did. Bundy was wrong but two wrongs don’t make a right.
You don’t know jack…..
Who…???
I’ll second that who? Never heard of either before today. Of course, my ammunition loader is on a workbench in my basement.
Hear, hear…
RUAG is not a small company, and odds are you have seen, or used one of their products. Norma ammunition is one of their subs.
“Norma ammunition is one of their subs.”
So, Norma is one of their submarines? Or, sandwiches?
Full words would be nice.
Are you not smart enough to figure it out? The world doesn’t need to cater to the unintelligent. Get smarter and things will be easier for you.
““Norma ammunition is one of their subs.”
So, Norma is one of their submarines? Or, sandwiches?”
Subsidiary. One piece of the whole.
Example, Chevrolet is a subsidiary of General Motors…
Yeah, I looked into them a little – kinda like BASF for ammo. I’m sure I have used their stuff.
Two others are Geco and RWS.
What do geckos have to do with ammo? I get that they sell car insurance, but guns and ammo?
Odds are that I haven’t…Don’t buy or shoot Norma, Geco or RWS, I pretty know where all my loading/reloading components come from, and as far as factory ammunition, I know where that comes from as well…
And just because I’ve seen Norma brass/ammunition, Or RWS or Geco doesn’t mean that I know they came from RUAG…And I’ve NEVER heard of “Prime”…
RUAG, states that Citizens Ammunition, LLC has stopped paying RUAG for the ammunition it sold and has refused to make any additional payments.
PRIME states they had paid, and in advance on some orders.
So who is Citizens Ammunition, LLC and how to they fit between RUAG and PRIME?
Did PRIME Pay Citizens Ammunition, LLC and then Citizens Ammunition, LLC NOT pay RUAG?
I think Prime is the brand/product and Citizens Ammunition is the business that owns it.
Used car dealer issue all over again.
Buy cars, try to sell cars before first payments are due. If cars fail to sell, you have no money for payment, so you drag it out as long as you can hoping someone buys one soon so you can make a minimum payment to get the dealer off your back.
As stated above the guy(prime) is a scumbag who wraps himself in Americana and expects everyone to be blinded by this and not look at any of the facts. This guy has been making so much noise from the beginning that I suspected the entire story wasn’t out there. Now it is and we know why he was doing all the cheer leading before he was exposed.
I heard about this when I got a completely unsolicited email two days ago entitled “What Has Happened to PRIME.”
I have never purchased ammo from them so however they got my email it wasn’t from me … and being spammed by them without a prior relationship, does not make me favorably inclined towards them.
At 9mm prices 1.2M rounds is about 24K boxes or a quarter million dollars at the minimum and going up from there. If you consider a wholesaler discount I would say $200K minimum owed. This should easily be proven in court and the details of it should come out pretty readily.
Why do I have a feeling that Prime has no manufacturing capabilities of their own? So they come up with a “recipe” and contract someone to make it for them. Sorry, there’s no “secret sauce” with ammo. It’s case, primer, powder and pill. So who am I supposed to believe, an established manufacturing company or a no-name, possibly 1-man company that doesn’t actually make anything?
Without any evidence, I know where my bet on the preponderance of the evidence would start. But who knows without facts and evidence?
They don’t. They worked with GAP and George Gardner to develop loads.
Everyday Sniper had a pretty recent podcast. RUAG decided to change a contract midstream supposedly. There is more to it than written above.
I was rewiring a customers home during a remodel and would get payments as per % of completion with regards to amount of bid. A little over half way through, the customer said he wasn’t going to pay anymore even after it was completed. I quit the job because I am not a charity and started another job that was waiting. Took non paying customer to court and judge ruled that I would not win case because I quit when terms were violated. Hope these folks don’t get the same type of judge cause if they do then the debtor will not have to pay up.
It’s a he said/she said thing right now. Once bank records come out and contract details are known, we’ll know who paid for what, and who is owed what.
Where did Gun-Time Brandon on Youtube, who was sponsored by Prime, go?
Hmmn, who to believe? A major international manufacturer with excellent reputation, or a dude I have never heard of who sells ammo from a web page.
This is going to be a tough one.
I figure Prime sponsored so many shooters to get their name out there, risked making it big in the ammo supply business, the accounts payable got to far behind, the supplier cut their supply off. Then ask for COD terms before shipping any more product. Minimum order was $250,000, Prime paid to get the order out of $$ collected from customers, supplier applied it to their past due balance, leaving Prime out in the cold. It was probably in fine print in the contract to supply that they could apply any monies paid to past due balance first, then refused to make any more product until $$ were paid in full. Sad thing is, the customers that paid Prime will probably be out in the cold and not get their ammo they paid for. The statement from Prime, was just to blame it on their supplier, hoping not to get caught up in any class action lawsuit from Prime customers.
Bullseye!
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