There are many correlations between the success of a given platform and Magpul’s involvement in making accessories for it. I have noticed these trends over the years and have watched Magpul’s support foster massive public acceptance.
Today I will elaborate on why it is that Magpul needs to make a frame system for SIG SAUER’s P320 and M17 pistol lines and why they need to accept GLOCK magazines.
The first thing I want to get out of the way here is the issue related to GLOCK mags. As we all know by now, GLOCK mags aren’t really just for GLOCK brand GLOCKs anymore. I would go so far as to say that the GLOCK mag should no longer even bear the GLOCK name.
Why is that? The magazine is so common that it’s almost an eponym in the same way Kleenex and Coke are synonymous with tissues and pop (soda for you Southern heathen). Just like the AR mag, they’re all over and everyone seems to be making them.
That widespread acceptance and common use that are the reasons it makes the utmost sense to make a modular chassis for the P320 to accept what is arguably the most common pistol magazine out there.
The Kriss Vector, countless AR lowers, the Ruger PCC, and many, many more systems use this common feeding device. While the GLOCK mag isn’t perfect, there is a certain quality to quantity.
Is this secretly a low-key jab at GLOCK in favor of SIG? Well, think that if you like, but the facts are out there to support what it is that I am proposing. Magpul makes, hands-down, some of the best firearm accessories on the market. Not only are they wonderfully functional, but they’re aesthetically pleasing. But there is nothing that Magpul makes that can truly benefit a GLOCK… except (ironically) the magazine itself, which they already make in several variations.
The aesthetic and ergonomics of a gun matter a great deal because modern guns tend to be hideous and visually insulting. I like the AR, but the stock M4 type rifle won’t win any beauty contests. Simply adding a Magpul stock, handguard, and grip makes the gun feel completely at home in the hand while at the same time making the rifle appear cohesive to the observer.
SIG makes some of the most visually appealing and ergonomic handguns on the market, but I’d still like to see what Magpul could come up with just out of curiosity. Should you feel bad if you have ugly guns? Yes, you should. “But I only care about function. I’m a Grey Man Sheepdog.” The mall called. It’s missing its ninja.
The second and most important part of this proposal is that SIG actually makes a modular handgun in P320 and M17. Try as you might to convince me, the GLOCK system is not and never will be modular like the P320 is.
The whole ‘modular’ aspect was sort of the point of the Modular Handgun System. It would be like ordering two pepperoni and sausage pizzas from two pizza shops and having one show up with no pepperoni, only to have that pizza guy file a protest for you to reconsider what counts as pepperoni. GLOCK makes very good, reliable pistols, but they are not in any way modular in the strict sense of the word.
The modularity of the P320 lends itself to a massive aftermarket. I keep getting asked why nobody makes good aftermarket frames, 80% kits, and other accessories for the P320 and M17. The P320 system is still a relatively young system. I (still) anticipate an explosion in popularity the second the market wakes up to the fact that the P320 will be making headlines on the world stage for the next several decades. The P320 is a safe bet for accessory makers and I hope to see Magpul leading the way.
Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t believe something needs to be changed about the P320 and M17. I think SIG executed this gun perfectly and it’s truly the only fully modular handguns in production, which is saying something.
Rather, I am advocating this because I think that modularity needs to be taken full advantage of the way it is with the AR-15. While I like the AK and enjoy that there are many accessories for them, they aren’t at all modular in the same way as the AR. The 1911 and GLOCK variants are the same in this regard in that they are still essentially legacy designs that can be modified, but are not actually modular.
There’s a reason that the AR is so popular and it’s not because it’s the most powerful or most accurate or most reliable design ever made. The AR is so popular because it is so modular and easily adapts to so many uses. If Magpul made a frame for the P320 that took common, cheap GLOCK-style magazines, it would catapult the P320 into the consciousness of every shooter out there. Both SIG and Magpul would both win here.
Imagine a handgun where you could swap out frames, magazines, slides, and calibers in seconds without an issue. You do it with your AR rifle, why is it so crazy to do it with your handgun?
Who knows, perhaps SIG would start selling the stripped P320 chassis so you could build your own just like you would an AR. They already have a fully-stocked online store selling grips, barrels, parts, and magazines.
The future is modular. I love the idea of guns like the P320 and the AR dominating the scene because they offer so much to so many. While I’m an advanced gun builder and am pretty good at restoring old guns, I always take special pleasure in seeing a novice complete their first rifle build.
The pride of ownership that comes with saying “I built that” can’t be overstated. I think that the P320 system will be the handgun system that our kids and their kids will grow up on and it all starts right here. Magpul has the opportunity to make the world’s most modular pistol that much more modular. I hope they do.
Hate to burst your bubble but us Yankees in NY, NJ and CT say soda. Pop is your old man.
So the part of the country that smells like an open sewer… as opposed to Commiefornia which IS an open sewer.
Smells like an open sewer??? Where in the northeast have you been dumpster diving? Have you ever even been here?
The northeastern states are beautiful outside the cities (and I would submit that NO city is particularly great to live in). We have four magnificent seasons (even including winter), and summer and autumn are especially nice compared to most other places in the US. The mountains, streams, lakes, coasts, etc. are awesome. The geography is one of the things the northeast actually has going for it. (The government, not so much)
Also, misgendering “soda” as “pop” is weird and shameful.
Well that’s it… Now all my magpul furniture has to be painted in gold flake.
Whoever did that should be hit in the balls with a hammer and thrown into a hollow golden bull that sits over hot coals.
And southerners don’t call it soda, we call it all coke. “What kind of coke you want? We got Coke, pepsi, mountain dew, sprite…”
The Atlanta based original drink however is “CO-cola” in the South, particularly when it is “Mexican” (original flavor with cane syrup, not high fructose diabeetus sauce).
My late paternal grandmother (southern all the way) used to call it “dope” from the days Coca-Cola actually had cocaine in it. It was years before I figured out what she meant when she would go to the fridge and ask me I wanted a bottle of “dope”. She was a wonderful lady and passed away in 1985 at age 90. Used to keep soft peppermint sticks and candy orange slices in the pantry for all of us.
Same outside of Chicago. We all said ‘soda’. Pop is what the hipsters called father.
I would not debase my Sig with a Glock magazine. I don’t have this model , but still.
I wouldn’t debase a GLOCK anything on a SIG.
Don’t drop the Sig.
You’re cute!
I’m surprised and bummed there isn’t more aftermarket love for the p320 FCG. We have two aftermarket modules and that RONI looking thing that unfortunately uses the whole lower half of a 320 not just the FCG.
Hopefully more becomes available.
Handgun market saturation?
It will come. It needs more time.
SIG has already dropped the ball on the modularity of the P320. One of it’s strongest selling points since it’s introduction (according to SIG) is the the ability to change grip size, not to mention grip module colors. Bought my first P320 a year and a half ago and I’m up to 3 now. And for all that time grip modules have been non-existent. I want to modify my P320’s. SIG marketed (i.e. promised) but didn’t deliver. Come on Magpul…fill the void!
The grip modules of all sizes are in stock all over the place. Google is your freind.
Yes, Google is my friend. But, I’m not finding them in my desired sizes and colors. And SIG dealers, SIGstore and SIG customer service have been no help.
“The grip modules of all sizes are in stock all over the place.”
I don’t think SIG has ever made grip modules for the P320C with manual safety in any size except medium. When I called SIG about this a couple months ago, the customer service rep said something might be available by the end of summer, but he was unaware of any firm plans to manufacture grip modules in other sizes for that pistol.
What I don’t get is why does Sig even bother selling medium grip modules when the guns by default are sold with them? Does it not make more sense to focus aftermarket grip modules production on the large and small ones instead?
Also parts availability continues to plague them. I had to hunt high and low to get a small grip module for my 320.
I’d like to see Magpul start making grip modules for the 320 just to have some variations that are in-stock someplace.
On the main topic, I’m not sure Glock magazines would fit in something the dimensions of the current small Sig 320 module.
They already make an 80 percent fcu insert.
Good luck getting all the parts needed to fill one out easily, and cost-effectively, though
Hello, Andrew, could you please elaborate on who ‘they’ may be? I’ve been interested in finding a FCU chassis to put in my spare P320 frame. So far I’ve found Ghost Guns, but I’d like to find more vendors that sell the chassis either in whole or ‘80%’. Thanks!
Have you tried using the internet? I don’t want to sound like a dick but you can find them in 30 seconds.
You can buy a complete FCU all over the place. Dozens on Gunbroker, and I just bought one locally from Armslist. Going rate is $200-$225.
Who you calling Southern heathens? I was born in Virginia and THAT”S where I always heard soda called “pop”. It is SODA but we can screw you up by taking you to Massachusetts where they call it TONIC. Or we can solve the whole thing and just call them “soft drinks”.
As a one-time collector of old antique bottles I know a (very) little bit about the subject. The original carbonated drinks were only available from a soda fountain where carbonated water was mixed with syrups or other flavorings. I believe sodium bicarbonate was used in the process. In the 1800’s people were experimenting with ways to make this flavored soda water more portable & so glass bottles were used with cork stoppers held in place with wire, something like modern champagne bottles. Another model used a specially designed glass bottle which had a marble inside which would seal the opening until the user would push it in by slapping it with the palm of the hand. (Called a “Cobb stopper” after the inventor) When either bottle was opened, they would make a pronounced POP sound. So “Soda” is the name of the drink. “Pop is the sound the stopper made when being opened. When I was a kid growing up here in the Southern (ByGod) States, everything was a “Cocola” & it didn’t matter what flavor it happened to be.
… but by all means, call it whatever you like. Nowadays, I prefer whisky anyway.
Unless you’re eating moon pies, then it has to be R.C. Cola.
Have a star you wonderful dime lunch hero.
Best comment. Thank you
(Although occasional substitution of Nehi Grape is also acceptable)
Ahhhhhhh
My tastebuds cry out…
I graduated to a more adult dessert; pecan pie & a bourbon coffee.
Thank you Oh Big Kahuna for all these things…
Hot take indeed. More research needed:
1) According to the US govt the Glock entry did indeed qualify as modular. YOU are welcome to have your own philosophical quibble about what a truly modular pistol IS but Glock did indeed meet the requirements the govt specified and so was accepted for the final downselect. https://youtu.be/Vn3NCNIcrGA?t=143 https://youtu.be/v0LUbLu6TqA?t=744 The final round of testing of both pistols was skipped by the govt, and Glock appealed. https://youtu.be/v0LUbLu6TqA?t=377
2) You need to google 80% Sig 320. Options are out there already.
3) A Sig P230 frame made to accept an abnormally bulky Glock mag would probably make an already girthy 320 pistol grip even girthier making it less appealing. Backstory: In ancient times Glock made a really crappy magazine (larger in width and depth than the typical metal magazine) constructed almost entirely out of polymer that bulged horribly when loaded. To correct the problem Glock simply made a polymer jacketed metal magazine that did not bulge as much yet still fit the frame and was a bit longer. Measure the dimensions of any standard metal 9mm pistol mag and it will be thinner than the Glock. This alone may exclude the use of a Glock mag in a p320 frame.
4) Until Sig puts a dingus on their p320 trigger, many will distrust the gun and won’t buy in.
The testing that was skipped was the reliability testing for the compact pistols the Army felt they had all the data they needed from the full sized pistol reliability testing.
As long as they make it for the 45 ACP I’d buy one if not and most likely they will not.
I’m not drinking the 9mm koolaid that the FBI said was the best round!
They did, it was called the P250, and no, you didn’t buy it.
The p320 45 has been around for a long time
The 45 uses its own FCG form-factor; it’s not modular to the rest of them (unless something’s changed). The story I heard, is the semi-auto disconnector setup (which the DA P250 lacks) took up enough room that they could not accommodate the larger magazine opening, and still meet the grip-size specs they needed for the M17 requirements. My guess is the distance from rear of the magwell to the trigger got too long.
It’s America. You’re allowed to be wrong.
I was at Shot Show two years ago – the year http://www.fullconceal.com first launched their foldable design and the same year it was announced that the Army had chosen the P320. I was talking with the folks at FullConceal and told them they should focus on the 320 platform too. They looked at me like I was out of my mind. It made sense if they could get the trigger to work. At the time you had to have a donor (serialized Glock grip). With the Sig you could just do the machining to a $40 grip and have it as an option.
As a twist on the same thinking someone should make a grip that takes the SIG 365 magazines and meshes them with a Glock 43. Glock will never be able to cram that many rounds in because of the metal + plastic cover wall thickness.
I have a Sig P365, and the Glock 43 it replaced may never again see the light of day unless somepne makes what you suggest happen…
The thing I would like to see from Sig is a 12 round grip frame that would use the current 12 round mags with the 10 round mag base plate (base plates sold separately and as in complete magazines).
I don’t own a P320 yet, mainly because there are so many choices in frame and color that I can’t decide which one I want! I can see the allure of a Sig P320 that can use the ubiquitous 17 round Glock mags as standard though, too…
My Extar EP9 uses Glock mags, but I own no other Glock that can use those mags and don’t want one either… A Sig using Glock mags has appeal!
See the SIG P320SC and P320SCR in 9mm for 12+1 capacity magazines with a 3.6″ barrel.
There is nothing remotely similar between the 320sc and a 365. the 320sc is not an alternative to the tiny micro 365
Sir I suggest you buy lottery tickets immediately. A coupe days after you wrote this SIG has just introduced the P365 XL version, 12 round standard grip with optional 15 round mag. Slide slightly longer, cut for optics. Mostly I’m looking forward to just getting that 12 round grip module
I’m confused, here; the only feature Magpul could add is to use a larger, plastic magazine. The grip will necessarily become less comfortable as a result (it’s not a coincidence that Glock grips are as blocky as they are, even if they are at least trying to make them comfortable lately). There’s simply not enough deviation from the factory part to be worth their while, unless they drastically change the aesthetics or incorporate a laser dot or something like that.
For those who are totally sold on the ‘superiority’ of Glock’s annoying-to-load magazines, they are already sold on the Glock in total, so why would they bother seeking out the SIG (let alone paying the premium for something functionally identical to their fave?)
What needs to happen is;
1) SIG needs to drastically improve small parts availability for the P320 series. Right now the only way to build up a new FCG is basically to buy a second gun. That’s idiotic and at odds with the whole notion of the gun’s modularity. If they can’t supply the demand, they need to license these parts to other shops (possibly even as a semi-public program) so aftermarket “parts kits” can come online for these guns
2) SIG needs to publish interface dimensions & tolerances for their FCG unit so the market can easily/safely develop accessories for the gun. Sadly, it’s almost a guarantee that moronic myopic managers see aftermarket development as a threat, rather than a promise their gun always has a place on the market for decades to come
You do know sig just rolled out a website where you can buy all the smll parts….
For the P365 and MPX only, at this time. That system is *exactly* what SIG needs for the P320, six months ago. Oh, and to also not gouge the shit out of customers, which the current selections certainly appear to do (P365 sear pin; $9.00, wtf?)
The whole point of a publicly-available modular system is *not* to hold onto all the tech data and parts supply so that everyone has to come to you & pay through the nose; the point is to /license/ that stuff to anyone & everyone who will pay for it, cementing your position at the center of the marketplace for decades, and letting others do your follow-on development work for you. You’ll even keep making money from licensing after ceasing production, for as long as you can maintain the rights/patented property (which is as long as you could hope to hang onto your market position anyway, if it’s a truly popular product)
How about Magpul just makes a 320 grip and 320 magazines for their normal low price with high quality ?
Also I’d way rather see a modular carbine based on the p320 that takes dog mags.
Afraid it uses no dog mags (?) but firecontrolunit makes the X-01, which replaces the frame with a carbine architecture that uses all the other SIG parts/mags, and includes a railed top cover to shroud the moving slide.
LOL. “Dog mags” is Glock mags translated into cell phone autocorrect.
Couldn’t disagree more with the Glock mags. Sig is a superior product and doesn’t need to cave into the runner up when it comes to mags. Glock should change their guns to fit Sig mags.
*Ahem* Magpul would also have to make their own larger serialized FCU, because the one already in the P320 isn’t wide enough to accept Glock mags itself, even if someone designed a grip module that accepted Glock magazines. Sorry to burst your autistic “muh Glock mags” bubble.
I absolutely agree that Magpul should start supporting the P320 platform, as well as many other companies, and we are starting to see third party manufacturers wake up to the fact that the P320 is going to be the standard-issue sidearm for our entire armed forces. Institutional adoption of the P320 is increasing exponentially, which means aftermarket support is likely to catch up soon
Ah man, really? LOL, talk about shattering the grand illusion! So, there’s no way at all it can be done…so let’s move on already 😉
What’s really funny, is “muh Glock mags” is just like the “muh AK mags” crowd; they’re both awful and badly outdated mag designs, even if they do work. And it’s worse in the case of Glocks, since their mediocrity is infectious; by now we should have figured out some way to get beyond these pain in the ass single-feed double-stack mags, and use double-feed mags like every other mag-fed weapon system in existence. But no, gotta keep the +100 year old finger-breaker design, because that’s what everyone is used to. It’s so ingrained that people don’t even realize how bad they have it, and upon loading their first five-seven mag it’s not uncommon for folks to burst into tears of joy (I’m obviously exaggerating, but the ease with which that gun’s mags can be loaded is a tremendous advantage that almost always goes unnoticed until range-day)
So, help an old guy. My 320 is doing what wrong that I need to change the frame to a tiger striped camouflage tactic cool one made by another company that takes different mags replacing the ones that work just fine? Why.
I think we should be careful not to let this evolve to the equivalence or women shopping for shoes that match their purses, or maybe it’s to late Damn people. Buy your favorite gun, train hard forever and pray we never have to use it and stop with the equipment fascination
I got to go spray paint my favorite pistol the color or the week !
Magpul should go all the way and make a crappy Glock trigger and sites for the P320 as well.
Pro tip:. If you want a pistol that takes Glock mags buy a Glock.
So never mind that the Glock mag would have to be modified to fit in the Sig FCU…this is nothing more than the wet dream of the fat chick that is hoping the quarterback will do her after prom.
A more direct metaphor; a fat chick wishing that she’ll fit into the pretty dress that she has no possible hope of squeezing into.
Looking at the teaser for this clickbait, I was wondering whether the article was satire, trolling, or demented Millennial rambling — and, of course, with this being TTAG there was no way to tell in advance because all three appear here regularly.
Having read the article, I’m still not sure which of those was the author’s intent — and from the comments posted, I don’t think anyone else is sure either.
I think that’s what makes it a ‘blog’
Why Would I want to use a Glock mag when Mec-gar(Made in Italy) makes some of the Best mags in the Industry? Which they make mags for a majority of manufacturers of guns. I’d rather use a high quality metal mag compared to a plastic/metal POS.
Only the East side of NY calls it soda, it’s Pop West of around Syracuse , I’ve never heard it called soda . And the folks down South often call it “ coke” wether or not it’s Coke or orange pop .
Well, MAGPUL did show up for the HK G3, HK MP5, HK 91/93/94 components, and the CZ Scorpion EVO components and even an EVO PMAG. The CZ Scorpion EVO has not been around for a long time, since 2009 I think, and MAGPUL jumped to produce a line of products for it. The SIG Sauer P320 has been around since 2014 and I think MAGPUL has had time to produce products for this popular pistol. The US Army adopted M17/M18 and other services followed quickly to adopted the pistol also. If, MAGPUL would just produce magazines first that would be great for buyers of the SIG P320. Magazines for the SIG P320 are generally around $40+ dollars. MAGPUL could even produce frames, but do they need permission or get a licensing agreement from SIG to do that. This could be the reason why they have not produce any SIG P320 products.
It was called pop where I grew up in the south, in CA (was there in the military) it was soda. I think you’ve been snorting too much gunpowder.
I have to agree with this article only for one reason. Sig magazines are horribly overpriced. They aren’t worth the price Sig asks for them. Period. Probably why sigs aren’t as popular as Glocks.
You hit the nail on the head. $35-50 for gen 2 P320 9mm mags is horrible. I can get 21rd mags cheaper than 17rd. That seems crazy to me. Worse than P229 mag prices with no MecGars on the market. Promag just released some 320 mags and the reviews I’ve seen are in line with their reputation as trash. The mags cost more than the grip modules(I’ve picked up modules for $19 on sale.) I’ve seen gen 1 mags on sale for $30 but they aren’t compatible with certain frames.
But as an owner of multiple Sigs it’s not a surprise that the mags are expensive. That’s something I’ve come to expect but it’s still steep for polymer pistols. It’s not a deal breaker though.
The only place I heard the term pop used is Canada.
I’ll stick with my HK that takes HK mags because I don’t like having money and this is a very efficient way to convert all of my cash into small spring loaded metal boxes.
Now I know where all my money went!
Well played, sir!
Little history lesson. During the industrial revolution in America, a little known fellow by the name of Ford (sarcasm) developed vehicles that were modular. And parts that were universal across those vehicle. But unfortunately greed corrupts. This day and age very few things are made to last. Or made with simplicity in mind. The almighty dollar is the current idol. Worshiped by all. (Almost).
Are you suggesting the Model T was built to last?
Being a Glock owner, I thought the same when I had a 320. Being an engineer, I took a look at it and believe the Glock magazines are too wide to fit in the modular sig frame – sadly.
I agree that Glock mags are ubiquitous because of Magpul and others and should henceforth be designated the SPM – Standard Pistol Mag.
If a firearms manufacturer wants a new pistol to be VERY successful – it should use Glock mags. If they want a rifle to be successful – they use AR-15/SR-25 mags – all because of
Magpul – a.k.a. Standard Rifle Mag SRM. If you want a successful subgun it should take Glock and or CZ Scorpion mags – since Magpul is making scorpion mags now, they should be designate – SSM – Standard Subgun Magazine.
You should have stopped at “being a Glock owner.”
Cokes. I have lived most of my life in the Deep South. Everything is a Coke.
Was this an article or a marketing synopsis for making a modular frame and selling Glock mags for kindergarteners???
This is an intriguing idea for someone with a 3D printer that has a large enough print volume.
Just buy a Glock. “I…have watched Magpul’s support foster massive public acceptance.” I have observed exactly the opposite. It seems Magpul won’t make a magazine or accessory for a platform until after it has been proven to be a successful platform, and usually well after. And as for people lamenting Glock for its looks, I can wholly sympathize. But, I have found that, after owning Glocks for so long, one can become accustomed to the spartan and utilitarian style found there. Simplicity can have its own aesthetic quality, too. Surely I’m not the only one.
Sig’s QC still sucks, particularly on their handguns. Until they can create and ship a gun that does not require the replacement of a critical component for reliability and safety, there is no need for them to focus on extraneous accessories like these.
What an awful idea!
The Sig has a much better grip size & ergonomics than a Glock because it was designed around a thinner and stronger steel magazine.
If someone made a P320 grip that took Glock magazines it would be much thicker and blockier as a result.
No thanks. You keep your uncomfortable grips on your Glocks.
I have small hands and want the grip thinner not wider.
B&T has their frame meant to SBR the P320, it is much nicer feeling than the P320 full size standard frame because it is slightly slimmer. Lookup the USW-320 if you don’t know what I mean, that grip is much nicer dimensionally for people with smaller hands.
Nice point.
So that you can buttress the rifle portion of the lesson, this share. The AR15/M16 magazine is, in fact, a standard magazine for NATO. It is the magazine described in the Standardization Agreement (aka STANAG) 4179.
Similarly, Picatinny Rail is STANAG 2324 / Mil-Spec 1913 – oops, now Draft STANAG 4694.
More for your reading pleasure here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_magazine
So, if we all push NATO to standardizing on the G17 or G19 magazine, then it will be the standard pistol magazine.
Having chatted with a member of the engineering team for Magpul, the width of the g17 mag exceeds the width of the FCU channel.
Perhaps the path is an FCU competitor that is slightly wider and slightly longer and with the ejector a part of the sear assembly as opposed to being part of the chassis. Then a number of the above issues are taken care of. For me, I’d very much like a P250/P320 in 7.62x25mm Tok. (smile) Since there is, now, a double column, single feed high cap mag in that caliber via the NP762.
Magpul is a shell of what it once was. Investors and Suites who want easy earnings push ideas of shirts and hats…. and iPhone covers! Sig grips could pull them out of the creative rut everyone notices they’re in.
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