After the recent NYSRPA v. Bruen decision struck down New York’s “good cause” requirement for obtaining concealed carry licenses, the state government and anti-gun activists have been looking for ways to fight back. And the forces in opposition are getting creative.
A recent agreement between a number of New York City hotel owners and the New York Hotel and Gaming Trades Council (a union representing hotel workers) requires the hotels to ban firearms from their premises, including hotel rooms.
Many of New York’s largest and most well-known hotels are unionized, including The Plaza Hotel, the New York Hilton, and Marriott Marquis. Altogether, the union represents workers serving about three quarters of the city’s hotel rooms.
The Hotel Association of New York City, a trade group representing hotel owners, had supportive things to say about the new agreement.
“HANYC strongly believes in the safety of its customers and employees — and so we are partnering with the Hotel Trades Council to ensure that firearms do not enter into city hotels unless carried by bonafide, on-duty law enforcement officials,” Vijay Dandapani, president and CEO of the association, told the New York Post.
Unlike many of the moves made by state and local governments in response to the Bruen ruling, this one is would likely hold up in court. Private property owners have long had the right to set the rules for their properties as long as they’re not discriminating against protected classes (race, sex, national origin, etc). At some point, the policy could be challenged via antitrust law, but don’t bet on the success of such a move.
The trade union, the hotel association, and lawmakers all told the New York Post that they think such a policy will help tourists and other visitors to the area “feel safer” during a time when the city is facing rising violent crime, but as we know from research from people like John R. Lott, Jr., it just doesn’t work that way.
We still have the choice to say no to the businesses that made this agreement, and independent hotels also still have the right to set their own rules for their own premises. Gun owners’ options may be limited when visiting New York City — be aware that New York does NOT recognize carry permits issued in any other state — there’s an easy way to avoid the policy (if you’re a New York state resident planning to be in town: look at the union’s website here and scroll down to find a map where the union proudly lest every hotel they have by the shorts. Then, make your lodging decisions accordingly.
Some non-union hotels may also choose to adopt a similar policy, of course, so if you’re going to visit the city, make sure to check ahead of time with any hotels before making a reservation. Also, be sure to let the hotel know why you’ll be choosing a competitor if you get the wrong answer.
Nothing has changed yet in New York and, again, you can’t legally carry a concealed handgun in the state under a license that’s issued anywhere else. Let’s be careful out there.
F that state. Lived there for two miserable years a decade ago for work, left and never going back. Sad thing is in the 80s when I was a kid I went to the Catskills almost every weekend for well over a decade. I learned how to shoot in New York.
I used to shoot at Edelman’s in Farmingdale back in the late ’80s, one Saturday each month after a few hrs of OT at work (defense contractor in College Point).
A shooting friend used to take the bus to work. He would have a cased full auto HK91 (and 7.62 NATO ammo) strapped to his back on those Sat mornings.
We got thrown out a few times for going FA on the indoor ranges back then.
Usually did that when we were ready to leave. 😄
“A shooting friend used to take the bus to work. He would have a cased full auto HK91 (and 7.62 NATO ammo) strapped to his back on those Sat mornings.”
How was that possible?
New York state outright bans NFA ‘toys’ like machine guns for the citizens…
The very first gun I ever bought was at a college student at Syracuse University. My roommate and I open-carried our beat-up Stevens .22 across campus to a quarry to plink. A cop stopped us on the way back and gave us a ride and a lesson in how to open carry a long gun. Good times.
IIRC, his dad was a Class 03/07 FFL/Manufacturer, the HK 91 was in a trust with several other restricted firearms.
No idea if how he transported it was legal, but he was never stopped and checked to the best of my knowledge.
RE: “Private property owners have long had the right to set the rules for their properties as long as they’re not discriminating against protected classes (race, sex, national origin, etc). At some point, the policy could be challenged via antitrust law, but don’t bet on the success of such a move.”
Uh…What they are doing is backdoor discrimination. No different than it would be for wheelchairs, canes, oxygen devices, hair dryers, matches, knives, laptops, etc. When a portion of the public is denied service that’s discrimination especially following a USSC ruling that says the public can exercise a Constitutional Right outside the home.
Hstory confirms Gun Control in any shape, matter or form is rooted in racism and genocide…Obviously Gun Control includes sneaky forms of discrimination, it’s in its nature.
Property rights are just as important as gun rights. You don’t like it, go some place else. And let them know why.
not quite.
Hotels are, by law, “public accomodations” and cannot deny patrons their RIGHTS. They may “own” and/or “control” the property itself, but they can NOT force their own ‘sensitivities” upon their patrons.
The US Constitution plainly declares that my RIGHT to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Wil someone please show me where it makes exceptions? Nor does that bit of LAW specify who may not do the infringing. That means, NO ONE, NOTHING, NOHOW, can do the infringing.
In YOUR private home, you can make such restrictions. But when I rent an hotel room I am temporary OWNER of that property by virtue of the money I have paid for the use of the premises, just as if I had purchased it.
Does my right to free speech, or to freely exercise my chosen religion ((or not) or my right to be “secure in my person, house, papers, effects” while I am in their space they have consigned to ME to use as my residence? Of course not. I can read what I want, type what I want, listen to whatever speech or music I care to, come and go as I decide,
SOMEONE needs to do a bit of research and file a nice fat lawsuit for unlawful discrimination and denial of rights.
Hmmn.. wonder if The Donald might not be up for pressing this?
Tionico, When you “rent a hotel room”, you are entering into an agreement between you and the hotel management. In that agreement they can make any restrictions that they want to as conditions to renting their hotel room. This is what might be termed a “conditional contract”. If you agree to take the room, you virtually agree to the restrictions the hotel management might impose. No hotel “consigns” a room to you without restrictions. Sorry but on this one you are wrong.
yea, but once they rent it to me, its my private home. Second Amendment rights are highest in the home.
Bonbow, Yes, it is our “home” however the conditions you rent it under are at the discretion of the hotel management.
Doesn’t seem to work quite that way for apartments or camp sites, at least for many purposes. Why are hotels different?
I still go to the Catskills. And teach my kids to shoot there, in the woods behind our home.
Ahh. Cool! So the thieves, rapists, and murderer’s will absolutely feel safer doing what they do, in high end NYC hotels now. Bravo! Good job ya Union pukes.
Why would anyone want to visit New York City?
As in Chiraq I ain’t headed to NYC. I guarantee some of the hotel workers carry a gat. No bueno!
To throw a handful of change off the Empire State Building observation area?
“Why would anyone…”
That was my first thought too. Neither me nor mine have any call to go there or anywhere nearby. Those hoteliers and the rest of them can keep it. We had a layover next door in Newark once years ago, and made sure we had all our gear when we left, and we saw Miss Liberty from the plane window. No reason to return.
I did once… when my Dad was staying nearby on Long Island. We rode a train in to NYC and played tourist. That was the year Lady LIberty at Ellis Island had her makeover, scaffolding enclosed her and the island was closed so we could no see it. We wanted to look up the registry of when HIS Dad entered the country back in 1890 something. Never been there since no intention of doing so. Dad will never invite me there again, as he has gone Home to glory.
I won’t even book a flight that changes planes there, nor will I book one near there for a layover. Why? Because when I travel I ALWAYS have guns along, and NYC/NJ have some VERY nasty rules about having them wihtout certain requisite Mother May I Cards, which they NEVEr issue to non-residents. I won’t even get close enough now to be stranded there overnight wiht them in checked luggage.
But where will John Wick stay now?
John Wick has no play to lay his head until he takes out the High Table.
As many people that Wick killed in NYC the place should be empty now.
Don’t mess with a man’s ride or his dog. You may find out.
How many hotel guests have been shot by other hotel guests staying in other rooms? If the answer is zero, then banning guests from having firearms does nothing to increase safety or reduce the threat of harm.
I also wonder if hotel guests have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their rooms, and having leased the room for a 24 hour period, whether their right of occupancy bars landlords/hoteliers from enforcing gun bans in rooms. (Of course, getting a gun to the room without otherwise violating a “no guns” presumption for all business premises in NYC as provided by recent legislative enactments is a different kettle of fish.)
According to Disney, your reasonable expectation of privacy is outweighed by their need to provide security…
FTA: “it will now be required that a Disney employee enter their hotel room at least once a day to ensure guest safety”
https://www.smartertravel.com/new-disney-policy-puts-security-privacy/
Those willing to sacrifice hard earned liberties for some perceived sense of security deserve neither, and will lose BOTH liberty and security.
At this point isn’t New York (and a few others) the case example of exactly that?
Perhaps periodic cell searches?
A team can burst in, subdue the guests, ransack the premises to determine if conformant.
Violators will be asked to leave without refund.
part of the bargain to yield to me the use of the ROOM includes my ability to GET TO IT without interruption or harrassment.
Just as at my HOUSE I have the expectation of privacy and security INSIDE the home (and can keep my guns there lawfully, thanks to the SCOTUS in their decision in Heller) that expectation extends to the “curtilage”, meaning adjacent land surrounding the home itself, the structure, thus I can also walk from the public sidewalk accross that dirt and thence onto my porch/steps and enter the dwelling itself. Anything i can do INSIDE the structure I can also do within the curtilages surrounding it. (except things ike indecently exposing myself to those walking by, but i can’t to that standing in the livingroom with its big picture window, in the altogether, as the general public stroll by of an afternoon. indecent exposure is indecent no matter where it takes place.
So. my HOME is my castle, and so is the DIRT surrounding it necessary for my unfettered access to that HOME.
Tionico, Not so. It seems that hotel management can set whatever reasonable conditions that they want. Once you sign that registration card, you are agreeing to those conditions that management may impose.
How will hotel management and workers know if a customer is armed? “Concealed Carry” means just that, others will not know you are armed. The only way the hotels will know is if they have expensive walk through metal detectors or the room workers snoop through guests possessions while cleaning or making beds.
If the cleaning lady comes in and finds a sniper’s nest set up I guess they can call the cops and toss them out. In the event a Vegas style shooting happened they could say guns were prohibited, not their fault.
Most businesses and corporations, under legal advice, would probably prefer to say firearms are banned from the premises, though they can’t actually keep them out, it gives the illusion of safety.
Why is a permitted individual safe carrying on the sidewalk but not in the hotel hallway, one street over from time square but not in it, in their car but not a park? “Sensitive locations” and gun free zones are a joke.
The silly concept that any venue, open to the public, can deprive a citizen of their Constitutionally protected rights is ludicrous. Your corporate “property rights” do NOT trump my personally rights;
And F Dandapani, his union thugs and the boat they sailed in on.
Brad,
You obviously have much more faith in the staff minding their own business than do I. If you don’t think staff ever “goes through your stuff” while you’re out of the room? Got some oceanfront property in South Dakota that I’d like to sell. Now, IF you keep your carry piece on your person at all times, your comment is accurate, but . . . it IS a private business. If they make being unarmed a condition of business, your choice is to go along, or go elsewhere. I’m sure there ARE accommodations, even in fascist New York, that have no such silly requirements. If not . . . how badly do you need to go to that s***hole????
Ocean-front or not, I might want to have a look at what you got. Have a retirement place up there in the summer sounds ok to me. Heck, maybe move there for good to get away from all the wackos.
Winters might be a bit rough though…ok a lot rough. lol
My boys say the surf is pretty good, given that it’s only beach break. Yeah, winter is pretty rugged – have to wear wetsuits to go in the water.
“How will hotel management and workers know if a customer is armed?”
Exactamente. We did some travelling over the weekend, and the only people who had a clue that I was armed, were my wife and daughter.
metal detectors, stealth scanners for hard objects, maybe even airport style security.
Yeah, THAT”S what they oughttadoo. Everyone goes through the TSA scanner.
Until they DO that,they have little to no reason to declare the place “gun free”. How many tmes per year do TSA find handguns “forgotten” on someone’s belt/purse as they are checking in? And TSA are super “careful”… Yeah, right. And I gots me a pet chikkin can fly to the moon and back in a week, all by herself!!!!
Mad, I used to ask the same thing. Then I went. Drove once. Took Amtrak the next time. No magnometer. Had a great time. NYSP would have cardiac arrest if they had searched my truck. A little lower profile when I was on the train. The government, even the NY state government, can kiss my ass. They’re still a state in the United States of America. When I went to New York, I behaved as a citizen of my nation.
Again with the “by keeping abiding citizens from having guns we will be safe!” Except the law abiding citizens aren’t the ones robbing, murdering, because… They are law abiding. Why would they bother with a permit otherwise?
“HANYC strongly believes in the safety of its customers and employees — and so we are partnering with the Hotel Trades Council to ensure that firearms do not enter into city hotels.” Unless the hotels have metal detectors and scan all baggage and search all persons and cars… Guns are there. Security theater.
More lawsuits on the way!
F NYC they have been on my boycott list this just sealed it.
Would just as soon go to Bagdad as New York.
“The trade union, the hotel association, and lawmakers all told the New York Post that they think such a policy will help tourists and other visitors to the area ‘feel safer’ …”
“feel safer”
As with almost everything, it is all about feeling rather than actually being. Somehow, it is a higher priority to feel safe rather than actually being safe.
As I stated hours ago in my comment on a previous article: there is no point discussing such matters with people who elevate feelings over facts.
Instead of pointless “discussions” with irrational/hysterical people, “speak” with your dollars, your feet, your votes, and your lawsuits.
It may well be their gig to make me FEEL “safe”. But it is MY responsibility to make me BE safe, everywhere.
The troube with cops is thay cannot BE everywhere t once all the time. I have discovered over the years that wherever I am, I AM there. Even if they are not. SO guess WHO gets the full time responsibility of assuring MY security in a free state? ME. Because if THEY don’t/cant;t/won’t, that puts ME at risk, unaccetible level of risk. Tjeir main goal is to go home every night. mmm.. funny thing, that’s MINE, too. They are not mutually exclusive, re they?
Who, in their right mind, would stop in NYC?
Yes, sir.
I assume they don’t let Republicans stay in the hotels, either.
Oh, darn. Miner69-er, dacian (same kweer-chick-dude) & I were just planning to visit that scheitwhole. Now we’ll have to go to New Jersey instead.
Historically labor unions were a criminal Enterprise. Yes many of them were formed because of safety conditions on the job. Not all but many labor unions we’re also made up of criminals and a criminal leadership. The idea that they are out to help the worker is Ludicrous. They will easily discriminate against and do physical harm to another union’s workers, and workers not in unions at all.
When I stay at hotels I keep the guns and ammo on me. I never leave them in the room unattended. I have yet to see a “no guns” sign at the places I stay at. There’s just too many hunters around.
Stay out of NYC.
Unfortunately, being “private property” they do have the right to bar any item that they want as long is itd does not directly endanger the health, safety and welfare of their employees and customers. Also unfortunately, they are being infinitely foolish as they have no created another “gun free zone”, which is a target rich environment for the bad guys.
quote: “being “private property” they do have the right to bar any item that they want as long is itd does not directly endanger the health, safety and welfare of their employees and customers.”
nope. When they RENT me a room it is just the same as MY OWN HOME back where I am right now. they cannot lawfully curtail any right priviledge or freedom I hve HERE. That rented room becomes my DWELLING. I have every right in that DWELLING that I do in my own home.
Infringing upon m RIGHT to arms DOES elevate my risk level signficantly.And, attempting to ban ALL from having them is an engraved invite served up on a sliver platter for any bad guy in NYC to come round, pay a visit, frisk rob rape beat anyone they choose… as they can be quite fully assured that NO ONE will be able to stop them. THAT right there puts ME t higher risk.
Tionico, Sorry but that is not correct. Just as a landlord may set conditions you rent his apartment, so a hotel management set conditions under which you rent his property. Once you sign that registration card and pay the fee, you are subject to their rules as conditions under which you rented that room.
I would never go to shitcago or that shit hole New York City , concealed carry is just what it is , no body knows you’re carrying. But when you need your fire power , you have it.
In fact, NY state CCW permits don’t apply in NY, and it isn’t legal to carry there anyway, even if you have a permit that is good throughout the rest of the state. Maybe once the tsunami of lawsuits NY is begging for finally hits (I’m waiting…) that won’t be true anymore, but for now it is. So this rule is unlikely to do much of anything except make Twitter and DKos happy… which is a shame. I like my twits and my fascists miserable and sobbing.
Great. So, when a Federal employee tries to make a reservation with any such hotel I think it’s incumbent upon the hotel to ask if the employee is authorized to bear firearms in his professional capacity. If the answer is yes, then ask if the employee will bear arms when he checks-in. If the answer is yes, then ask if the employee will “check his guns at the desk”. If he says no, then ask if the reservation is directly connected with a law-enforcement activity at the hotel. If no, then the hotel must refuse to accept the reservation.
The federal employee has no power to commandeer the private property of the innkeeper. It’s an even-handed transaction where the parties agree to a contract of lodging.
If the hotel very well knows that federal employees are entering their property armed – and not for the purpose of law enforcement at the hotel – then they are discriminating in favor of the class of federal employees and against ordinary citizens.
Would the courts uphold that? I doubt it.
Would the courts uphold discrimination in favor of armored car drivers and retired LEOSA officers? Even off-duty out-of-state LEOSA officers? I think this a huge can of worms that the gun controllers haven’t thought through.
ignore NY courts, go federal on the court action. This denies ME my right to arms during the time I have urchased the RIGHT to the use of their lodging. The place becomes MY HOME for the duration of the contract. They cannot demand I have no guns in MY OWN HOME, nor can they demand I have none in my HOME I have secured by virtue of paying them in legal tender for the surrender of THEIR use of the room, to ME to use as MY HOME.
Tionico Every contract has conditions set. Just as as if you were buying a home, the rental contract between you and the hotel management has conditions. This is contractual law. I sincerely doubt that the Federal courts are going to interfere with contract law.
The state of Ohio has a law in place to protect renters, and I believe it covers hotels/motels against anti-2A policies such as this.
Unless the property owner bans for the entire property… in which case you can’t enter to take posessiin of a room initially so no domicile in which such would apply
renting me the room for the length of the contract ALSO rents me ACCESS to that room.
When you stop by the AVIS booth to rent a car, can they prohibit your taking possession of it by claiming yuo cann’t enter their property to GET IT? Access is sine qua non for the use of the temporary dwelling.
They just make such rental conditions include a ‘no firearms’ condition and said contract is null and void if you enter the property with a firearm thus no domicile.
Dont matter, there ain’t gonna be much tourism when the third wave of coronavirus monkey pox shuts New York down again. Probably be hitting its peak sometime in November.
Just in time for mail in ballots.
well, as more and more people have come to realise that New York is a cesspool, I doubt this will be a real issue. I know nobody who even once owned a functional firearm built after 1911 who has any desire to be in NYC.
Their government only wants criminals armed, so let them have their way.
Its interesting to note that this past year some areas were ‘seized’ by residents who established a cordon around the area they established as an area police could not enter. Residents patrolled these areas with firearms. Police refused to enter these city areas and these residents threatened to engage them if they did. That’s kinda interesting… but what is even more interesting is these areas were also areas where the majority portions of the cities gamg members and other criminal elements resided.
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Imagine renting a hotel room and having to get searched to enter walking past medal detectors, security guards that will undoubtedly be armed, and x-rays only to have your shit city still a constant haven for crime and a target to the worlds terrorists. Yea… A state that doesn’t honor other states concealed carry laws and still has the most armed security in the world? Do you feel safe yet? Surely no private security forces, police, or militaries have ever been used against a state/government/countries own people…
Also, what the fuck does 75% of rooms mean? Is that because one group of elite fucks owns 75% of hotel chains in NY? Because that’s what it sounds like. I get that a union has both ups and downs, and this is clearly one of the downs. It’s a pretty big fucken down too.
What a joke. I’m sure it don’t apply to the mob who’s running it.
As with all private property; if they don’t know you have a gun they can’t ask you to leave.
If they know you have a gun and ask you to leave, then you have to leave.
So hotel guests will have to leave their firearms in their vehicles where it is a hundred times more likely that they will get into the hands of thug criminals via breaking into cars. Brilliant.
I suppose anyone that is caught violating the hotel policy as far as fireams will get charged with a felnony? What happens if someone staying in a hotel has hard case luggage with a good lock on it? Will the hotel help demand that you open it for their inspection?
Wonder what would happen if someone simply conceal carried their whole visit includng when sleeping? If one risks a felony in NY, that would be a big risk to take.
Remember folks, if you work in a position that’s been infiltrated by a hack Democrat machine union, don’t pay them! Thank goodness for Janus!
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