Housekeeping: A Note About TTAG’s Use of the Term “Slave State”

1. Slave State is right.

   • +1

2. I prefer Constitution Free Zone, myself.

   • Actually, that’s a great phrase. I think I’m going to start using “Constitution Free Zone” myself.

     • Too PC. Needs more crunch.

   • I like it.

   • That’s brilliant. It’s less bludgeon for more bite. Also requires less explanation.

     • Permission to Steal? Please?

       • There is no such thing as copyright.

       • Feel free. I steal all sorts of stuff around here. It’s all for a good cause.

3. Hyperbole, sure. But you could always say that, because it could always be worse.

   • Until perhaps you are in a situation where things cannot get any worse – such as being inside a school or movie theatre when only the bad guy has a gun.

     • I’m agreeing with the term, and arguing that the possibility of an environment closer to literal slavery is no reason to not use the term. Progressives like to have you take what they give simply because ‘it’s not as bad as what you think’, even though it’s way worse than what we have. Even slaves had it better than some other slaves, for instance.

     • Or a new orleans parade.

4. In a conversation over the very article concerning Maryland, a co-worker, as well as the husband and wife customers we were with (both ccp holders in a completely different state mind you) all chimed in unanimously “Sounds right, I like it!”, & the perspective they are now a “Slave State”.

   The difference between a Free Man & a Subject is ones ability to radify a Will possessed by either.

   Carry on…

   • I totally agree with the Slave State term. It self evident and makes people think!

5. If NJ Senators didn’t fully grasp the conducive abilities of self preservation through armed motive, why then give themselves anonymity to the regulations they propose… Another evil concept of special treatment that the constitution & bill of rights defimates.

6. As long as there is a reasonable doubt about Personal Liberty (which, admittedly, can never be as free and complete as some would like it in a structured society), the term “slave state” serves as a reminder that Big Government wants only submissive thralls that will never threaten its sense of Security and Dominance over The People. So, the term works for me and every time I read it I am reminded that The State wants to control my Life, which does not, and never will, work for me.

7. I am reminded of a critique of the ‘slippery slope’ argument that I heard years ago in school, that it is a poor argument because there is no inherent reason to believe a first step in any direction will inevitably result in progress down that path.

   I thought then and now that it was a load of crap. The reality is that the slope is slippery because there are people greasing it with propaganda and campaign contributions, and pushing as hard as they can to get everything moving.

   Therefore, you have to figure out the desired end state of the opposition. When you are talking guns, you look to the UK and the subjects of the crown. And I will not be a subject to any man. The term slave state should remain.

   • Hear, Hear!

   • inertia

   • Brilliantly stated

   • The anti-gun argument that skips straight from personal ownership of firearms to nukes and grenades is a classic slippery-slope fallacy. Going straight from magazine capacity restrictions to genocide is also a slippery-slope fallacy.

     Most of the time when people accuse you of slippery-slope arguments, it’s only because they don’t like where your argument is going.

     If you have evidence of their end goals (as you–we–do), then you’re not sending your argument down a slope greased by hyperbole and unfounded assumptions. We have examples of modern prohibition (England, Mexico, etc., etc.), and the anti-gun agitators have been clear that that’s what they want. Anyone who calls that a fallacious argument doesn’t understand evidence.

8. I can’t even remember the last time I was offended by words.

   • Only Leftists are allowed to be offended.

9. It’s needless and senseless hyperbole, just like “civilian disarmament movement” and even the almost benign by comparison, “gun grabbers.”

   But, you guys need all the help you can get, being on the wrong side of the argument. Even Ted Nugent’s brother agrees with us on certain things.

   So, carry on, with your exaggerated phraseology and your imaginative connections like the Mennen Skin Bracer. Like you said, no one is convinced who wasn’t already.

   • there is no right side of the argument. Everyone loses. We will all have taxes go to fight lawsuits regarding the Constitutionality of these regulations. We will also pay the pensions and healthcare of the politicians making these laws. We All Lose.

   • Mikey,

     I was just in the local sporting goods store (in the big, liberal, city of Milwaukee) looking at the gun display. Happened to have a chat with a gentleman who was so new to guns that he was unsure of what type of ammunition to buy for his new .22 LR rifle. For example, he didn’t know that different brands would fit his gun, even thought they were both labeled .22lr, he didn’t know that .22 short would also fit his gun, etc.

     The point is, that this was a brand new gun owner, in his late 20’s (my guess), with no background in guns.

     So you’re wrong to think that people aren’t being convinced about the need to own guns. I know I’m simply citing a single anecdote, but national statistics, like NICS approvals, indicate huge numbers of sales. One has to think that there are large numbers of new owners included there.

     Your statement seems to me like wishful thinking. You go ahead and think that, but there is a revolution going on right in front of you. You’ll look back in 10 years and see that Heller, McDonald and Obama finally put an end to our “conversation” on gun control. That conversation is actually over already, but the losers in the debate still keep on parroting their sad old lines anyway. You’re talking to a wall.

     • Revolution indeed. Even commie Pierce Morgan is rethinking his stance on an over reaching government and gun ownwrship. I thought I’d never see the day! Fight on warriors!

     • ” One has to think that there are large numbers of new owners included there.”

       Does one, really?

       Let’s see, if the women and blacks and first time gun buyers were as numerous as you say, it would be so obvious to everyone we wouldn’t have to keep arguing about it. But it’s not, is it?

       A little thought experiment I offered before which fell on deaf ears is this. You yourselves and all the gun owners you know, do you own more guns now than you did a year ago or five years ago? More, considerably more, am I right?

       That’s where the increase is.

       • Okay, I’ll take the bait.

         It’s true (obviously) that every NICS check is not a new owner. By the same token, you can’t say with any accuracy that the increase has been driven entirely by gun-hoarding nut jobs.

         I’ll use myself as an illustration.

         In the last 3 and a half years, I have purchased 6 guns. However, I own the same number of guns right now as I did a year ago, so whatever increase happened over the last year, I wasn’t part of it.

         Four years ago, I didn’t own any.

         In a nutshell: new gun owners buy guns, and a number of current gun owners keep buying. Gun sales go up for both reasons.

       • So, mikeyb, the gun companies and ammo companies can’t keep up with demand and your suggestion is that’s because a bunch off TTAG readers are stocking up. That’s your best argument?

         And the only one arguing about the obvious is you. Even after Sandy Hook we got no new federal laws. You’re on the losing side and it pisses you off. Too bad, so sad.

       • Six months ago I didn’t own a single gun.

         I became a new shooter after a friend took me to a range and introduced me to his guns.

         I became a new gun owner within 2 weeks.

         I became a 2A advocate when I watched our political serpents in action in D.C., and found this site within a month.

         This was all in the course of a month for me, and it’s only gotten more important to me since. Basically, progressives going nuts over gun control has driven me towards activism for a cause I barely even thought about prior to the last election.

         I have to believe that plenty more people are looking at the dog and pony show going on in D.C. and getting involved in both the political process and in gun ownership in response. Because continued liberty is worth it.

         • Lucu, I’m with you, man. There’s nothing like a gun to full that hole. The self-image of being weak and fearful suddenly leaves and you feel empowered for the first time in your life. Visions of Bruce Willis and Arnold fill your brain. It’s exhilirating. You no longer have to take shit from anyone.

           Enjoy.

   • ya you paranoid gun nuts are just delusional! no one wants to take away your guns you psychos!!
     oh wait…

     “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them….Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in. I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren’t here,” Diane Feinstein 1995 60 minutes

     • and… our lovely senator ladies “confiscate, confiscate, confiscate.”
       .
       The folk who say “no one want’s to take away your guns” are the ones with their heads up their…. blind as bats.

   • “needless and senseless hyperbole … exaggerated phraseology…”

     – So would that be terms such as “assault weapon”, “high-capacity magazine”, “cop-killer bullets”, “Saturday night special”, “gun lobby”, “weapons of mass destruction”, “gun crimes”, “undetectable plastic guns”, “Teflon-coated armor piercing bullets”, and other too numerous to mention? All of them used by the civilian disarmament interests?

     Just askin’.

     • And those are just the terms used by the mainstream press. At openly leftist forums such as Democratic Underground, they call firearms “death spewers” wielded by “gun fanatics”, refer to the NRA as a terrorist group, and advocate drone strikes on their headquarters.

       Because our side is so extreme, don’t ya know.

       • Yeah, we are so extreme because we want to enjoy our lives and be left the hell alone. Unfortunately moonbats spread and breed too fast and want us to live life as they see fit, rather than as we see fit.

       • “Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

         —Robert A. Heinlein

     • shoulder thing that goes up

     • Yeah, some of them but not all. You’re in agreement then?

       • Couldn’t agree with you on in which direction the sun rises.

       • Not sure who (er…whom) this was directed to… I’ll reiterate my point just in case, then I’m done.

         The increase in gun sales is driven by two things: gun owners adding to their collection, and new owners purchasing for the first time.

         The way the reporting works, there’s no way to tell how much of the increase belongs to which group (or even how many NICS checks actually result in a sale). Anyone who insists that *all* the increase comes only from one source or the other is either an idiot or a troll.

         • Ing, that’s extremely clear. The only problem with your “idiot or a troll” flippancy is I never said ALL the increase is due to the one group. I know there are some first-time buyers, but not nearly as many as you guys keep saying.

       • Mikey 29007 said;”you agree then?”

         Immediately below his post I indicated how far from agreement I am.

         Thought the intent was obvious.

       • @Bruce B

         Sorry, I thought it’d be apparent who I was responding to… I meant to direct that to MikeB, as I wasn’t sure if he was being stupid about what I said or not.

         If you’n Mike B disagree, then we’re probably on the same wavelength. 🙂

   • it is hyperbole, i agree, just like “gun nut”, “assault weapon”, “death machine/weapon of war”, and “tin foil hattery” (when one offers any legit criticism of government).

10. Forget about political correctness. As The late Charlton Heston used to say, “political correctness is tyranny with manners.” There is nothing wrong with the term “slave state.”

    • +1… “political correctness is tyranny with manners” >>> That’s a keeper… Thank you Nazgul…

      • No problem. 🙂

11. Well Said Robert.

12. Slave state has such negative connotations. Keep it!

13. I live in a slave state. It’s quite appropriate to use the term to describe states where the bureaucrats control access to exercising basic human rights.

    • It’s nit just about 2A rights. It is the way the state treats its citizens. From what I see, living in a slave state, they people are treated as if they are all criminals. The laws they make are to keep the criminal populace in line. If they step out of line they help feed the beast with court fees as most will take pleas rather than attempt to fight the charges which will end up with a win, but be prohibitively expensive.

14. “Even Ted Nugent’s brother agrees”. Classic. Who the F cares ?

15. Your hitting the nail on the head Robert!! Ok, im going to address the big white elephant in the room that alot seem to miss or not speak about. Our President has lied coinless times to us, and the media has caught him doing so. He bugged his own press core. He broke his Oath of Office that he swore to defend the CONSTITUTION against any threat, foreign or domestic. Didn’t Nixon get impeached for less???? Now for the elephant, he {President} is a black American, and has surly bin discriminated against at least once in his life do to his skin color.
    So common sense would tell you that the last thing he would want to do is restrict freedom of any kind! But that’s not the case at all, he has embarrassed the Office of the PRESIDENT, and don’t think other countries haven’t noticed. They get the news and internet over seas as well Mr. President. And by him embarrassing the office as he continues to do, it very well could bring more terrorist to our front doors. Those kind of people pray appon weakness, and this guys as weak as they come! Plus is loosing popularity points by the day. Asshat BLOOMBERG is having funny videos made all over the world by people making fun of his CONTROL ISSUES!! There investigating the IRS about some funds or something tied into Obama admin… Some good news, I got a phone call yesterday from a pro 2a org that has raised 800,000 bucks to start impeachment process’s on Obama! We can only hope, pray, and VOTE these freaking TYRANTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!
    I feel bad for the PRO-GUN DEMOCRATS that voted against the SLAVE LAWS!! Because I seriously doubt you’ll see another DEMOCRAT take office for another 12 years do to the SHIT STORM this campaign has started against the American People! They should be embarrassed and sickened by using those murdered teachers and children to push there propaganda bullshit gun control agendas!!!

    • I’m going deeper and relay the reason this shit sammie is on the table is Mr. President only reads the parchment, the words have no real meaning. Not once in his life did he get into the trench, not once sacrificed himself to protect an ideal that changed the world. His world is one of “what benefit can I extract from this country” and in a way represent what is achievable in America, a nearly broke state senator to world leader. All on our dime.

16. ‘Slave State’ is great. It is fitting, thought-provoking, and easy to remember. This site presumably gets some non-gun visitors onto it too even if they usually don’t leave comments. The Left has been devastating and effective in its use of labeling those Americans who prize liberty and traditional values the past forty years. The tactic and use is one we need to use more in our cultural war against our opposition.

17. “An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject.”

    And if the term “slave state” offends the likes of mikeyb#s, please use it more frequently. Political correctness is intended to make people censor themselves – the left’s version of mind control. I have read the Constitution many times, and I have yet to find “the right to not be offended”. Perhaps one of the leftist constitutional scholars could provide us with a citation?

    • Political correctness is the antithesis of free speech

    • Politically Correct is for the differently brained.

18. Unfortunately, slave Tate as connotations which might discourage some readers from taking the trouble to absorb content. This would interfere with the stated goals of TTAG.

    However, slave as in controlled by, with no free exercise of will, is about right. Like a slave cylinder: it doess vot it iss tolt!

    Another term you should consider is nascent totalitarian state, which is perhaps more accurate. The wet dream of NYs “leaders” is that everyone lives in a Logan’s Run dystopia, accepting the Overseers’ assurances that they are living in the best of all possible worlds.

    Language is important. If you cannot express it, you cannot usefully think it. Slave state says it pretty well.

    Lastly, the phrase I use in conversation is “states under occupation.” That works, too, and I’m proud to be a fiver.

19. “Slave state” has a lot of punch, yet we are being treated as serfs not slaves.

    “Slave state” drags in government over people vs. by the people, states as their own thing vs. a single homogenous federal super-state, and the US history around the civil war. Great word smithing there except for the other connotation – chattel slavery based on race (vs. say, conquest.) “Slave” is a loaded word in the US. If gun people are caricatured as OFWG closet racists, why hand the anti’s the – er – ammo.

    We are being treated as serfs not slaves. There’s no great, loaded term like “serf state” with the same punch as “slave state.” Yet, state-first classism has longer, broader history, more local and recent than slavery.

    “I am not a serf.” works individually. Even better is turning it around to call out would-be overlords on what they’re gunning for – use satrap, proconsul, mandarin, viceroy or Raja. Every time I use one of those they start sputtering about what they’re *really* trying to do, vs. reciting the programmed calumnies about me or us – dumb, reactionary, racist and etc.

    The point is, it isn’t about making ourselves feel better, which “slave state” certainly does. It’s about making *them* feel uncomfortable when they’re being, well, jerks. Maybe we’d be better served to talk about what we’re for – “citizen states.”

    • You’re right, we are treated like serfs. Perhaps we should change it to Serf Turf? 😀

20. It doesn’t surprise me that the people who strongly object to the term “slave state” and childe the editors for using it contribute nothing to TTAG and never post anything except their complaints.

    We have a name for such people. It starts with “T” and it rhymes with Hole.

21. Perhaps “Enslaved State”?

22. Slave State works for me. Slaves are people who have no choice. WE have no choice. WE can’t live on our OWN LAND without paying OUR MASTERS for the privilege. So is it really OUR’s?
    .
    Evils abound that enslave us. The worst being PROPERTY TAX. Income tax (tithing) is fine, but property tax ASSUMES you have income forever. So you don’t work for the master you get kicked out into the street, whipped bloody and raw by the force of government law… that’s slavery to me.
    .
    Americans should be able to own their own land with NO STRINGS to government at all. If they want to retreat to their property and never come out then the government can never go in and must leave them strictly alone. THAT is freedom, anything else is government FORCING us to work for “the man”…
    .
    Gun grabbers just want to make sure the slaves are helpless to fight back.. AS our founding fathers predicted and tried to defend us agains. Our job to keep our freedom. All need to go door knocking to GOTV.
    .
    HELP NEW JERSEY this election cycle 2013 if you are at all able. This battle rages on many fronts, in 2013 it’s Jersey’s legislature with all 120 seats up for grabs.

    • not only is income tax the problem, but so is compound interest, fiat currency, and fractional reserve banking. as soon as we kill these beasts with a silver bullet (I mean that literally silverbulletbullion.com/ 😉 , will we finally retrieve our lost freedom.

      As soon as we capitulate our right to bear arms (which includes black rifles and standard capacity magazines), we are finished. We will no longer have the decisive edge and the government will have a monopoly on the use of force.

      the word SERF comes to mind. In many ways, more than one, Americans are the 21st century surfs. “America: A Country of Serfs Ruled By Oligarchs” written by Paul Craig Roberts.

23. “Slave States” works for me.

24. SLAVE STATE is the perfect name for whats going on in this country. When the original founding Fathers of this great nation wrote the Constitution, LIBERALS AS WELL supported the 2nd A. They did this to insure equal rights for all!! You see almost 200 years ago the only people who couldn’t keep and bare arms, were SLAVES and illegal immigrants. These new liberals aren’t even true libertarians, their sue do liberals that have eroded the checks and balances system so they can have there back room votes, and private media parties to talk about public affairs!! This admin bites the BIG ONE, and so does any of the ass clowns that support removing civil liberties from a supposed FREE COUNTRY. This isn’t even about guns and kids anymore, its about taking away your FREEDOM AND CONTROL!!

    And for all you anti gunners, I welcome you here with open arms! You see, that’s what made this country so great, the freedom to choose if you want a firearm in your home, or carry one like I do every day, or not. Look at the gun violence stats done by the CDC, FBI, and DHS. Its very clear to understand, even for our slow on the uptake President. Deaths evolving firearms is at 3.1 or 3.2%, it hasn’t bin that low since 1961. And these our Federal agencies doing these studies!!!! So if you can read a bar graph, which if you passed the 5th grade you should be able! You anti gunners are WRONG!!!! END OF STORY!!! This ones for all the ASSHAT MEDIA THAT MAY BE READING, do some research dummies. The truth is out there, I had to go X-Files on there ass’s so they comprehend. How about covering some legal gun owners that have saved their lives, and the lives of family and friends do to the use of a GUN!! How about stop reporting on every thing that freakin bleeds as your NEWS FOR AMERICA, because YOU SUCK!! How about covering positive things that happen in our communities. I get depressed every time I turn your crap casts on, nothing but death and violence so you can milk ratting scores. We The People Are Sick Of You As Well!! You have your own personal beleifs and agendas, I watch the news for the facts, so that I may make my own opinion of such story. Not to listen to some asshat news caster tell me his opinion and thoughts on firearms, when he or she’s never owned or even touched a gun before. Its obvious to me if your an investigative reporter you should have to investigate the story. If that means going and taking a gun safety program or hiring a gun expert to interview, that’s what you do!! Im sure theres dozens if not hundreds that would be more than happy to help you get the REAL FACTS out correctly for free!
    But that would undermind your attack on guns and gun owners. It would bring into light responsible gun ownership and down play your BS campaign of shame on us AMERICAN GUN OWNERS!!!

25. As I said the last time this came up, I was using the term “slave state” before I read it here on TTAG. Keep using it.

26. “Preaching to the choir”? HELL YEAH! That’s the POINT, genius!

    And it DOES change minds! SO EFFING THERE. CHANGE THE CHANNEL if you don’t like what’s on.

    Like the motto says, LIVE FREE OR DIE! Or just go away.

27. I think slave state is appropriate since it is not just guns most of these states are banning. The amount of control they demand over their citizens lives is astounding, and the people vote them back in anyway.

    In a democracy, you get the government you deserve.

    We have been naughty indeed.

28. You preach it, Brother!

    You’ll get an Amen from this corner.

29. While I agree that laws like the NY “Safe” Law abridge our rights and freedoms—and not just those of us who own guns but all citizens—I have to say that, whenever I see the phrase “slave state” used to describe this situation, it makes me very uncomfortable. I understand that making me and everyone else uncomfortable about this encroachment on liberty is precisely the point. But to use a term that implies any meaningful similarity between the lives of black slaves living in the real slave states to the lives of citizens living in New York or Maryland—the rhetorical “slave states”—is to lose all sense of proportion. To be affronted by the appropriation of the term “slave states” as as rhetorical device is not political correctness; it is respect for our history and for moral balance. I think RF knows this. That’s why he’s addressed this topic twice already.

    • For almost all of human history, there have been slaves — and they weren’t black. Your thinking is historically narrow.

      • The only reason we pro-2A advocates would even think to use “slave states” as a rhetorical device is because it calls to mind the enslavement of blacks in the Confederate states before Emancipation. But even if this were not the case – if we were actually intending to reference instances of slavery outside the US instead (which of course we weren’t, otherwise why the debate about its appropriateness) – an unwillingness to recognize the likely interpretation of “slave states” in the context of this discussion is to be deliberately obtuse.

    • you are thinking way too much into that.

      have a glass of gin and chill out.

      • WLCE, I’m going to take your suggestion with three olives!

        • im serious. i didnt mean that disrespectfully.
          this whole gun monkey business gets all of us bent out of shape.

          i strongly suggest a iced glass of Kokanee with some shots of Stoly. 😉

30. Someone once observed that the chains of a slave are heaviest who do not realize they are a slave. Some slaves are physically enslaved yet their minds and hearts are still those of free men, and others are enslaved body, mind and heart.

31. FREEDOM ISNT FREE, just ask the wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends of the Honored Loved One’s who gave the ULTIMATE PRICE defending the Constitution our President wipes his rear with!! OOOh and the Ted N. brother thing, BULLSH%T, Mr. N. family would never say anything like that, as it normally goes, you’ve takin speech out of context! Call your Senators and Governors at least once a month, if not every day, be polite even to the slow ones. Let them know we wont be bullied by are elected officials, and we will vote accordingly. Also thank and support the officials fighting for the rights every legal citizen has in this country. The squeaky wheel gets the oil! But its people like us that have made the difference in this country, so thank you all for helping me keep my 2nd A rights n FL. David

32. Robert, you are starting to make me come around on this “slave state” term. Generally I’m not for calling things slavery as a metaphor given that true slavery exists still today, but the stuff happening in some of these states is crossing a line into which it is not a pure metaphor anymore.

33. You’re a slave when you’re owned as property. This would not be the case even if every single amendment in the Bill of Rights was to be completely removed tomorrow. The use of the term “slave state” to denote infringements on constitutional rights is highly inaccurate, and it is also desensitizing the issue of real, actual slavery, which still exists in many parts of the world (and will exist in many more if jihadists take over, since Salafi Islam condones enslavement of non-Muslims).

    • Totally agree. It was what I was trying to say earlier. You just said it more succinctly and eloquently. 😉

34. as for impeaching our president i got two words for you
    President Bidden

    • Yeah, but ol double barrel Biden wouldn’t last a year before he got himself in some scandal, like Clinton. Bidens a thumb puppet for Obama so he can use him to come across to the lessors. But I agree, this countries political leadership is definitely in the shitter! It will take time to get over these guys and gals BS politics, but voting is the best thing to do. And tell that ASSHAT CARPET BAGGER BLOOMBERG to run his own city and mind his own Fing business! OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARENT FOR SALE!

35. Even if it’s right, the atmosphere in this blog is going more and more away from a rational debate and more to propaganda and hyperbole. I came onto the site because of the well-researched, straight-talk filled essays and arguments. More and more of the essays are filled with tone like this, and it WILL turn people away (especially moderates).

    I hope that the editorial team will recognize that what makes TTAG special is its commitment to spreading the facts. Leave the hyperbole and name calling to Fox and NBC.

    • I think (hope) RF is ambivalent about using “slave states” in this context too. Otherwise, why try to rationalize it.

    • What if rational debate doesn’t work? Don’t get me wrong. I admire articulate reason as much as the next guy, but I think if we look around, we have to admit that we aren’t losing liberty for lack of pro-liberty reasoning.

      I’m not advocating lying as as a means to our ends, but hyperbole, even that which offends some sensibilities, might have a place.

      The thing that satisfies me most about TTAG is that the rhetoric here is diverse, AND overall, of a higher standard than most other forums of a political nature. That goes for the content, as well as the character of the packaging.

36. I’m against using this term.

    This forum regularly and rightly critisizes the antis about using arguments backed by nothing but emotion. I think that if we come out and use terms don’t accurately describe our condition (we can vote, move, politically agitate, protest and do a whole load of things slaves can’t) inaccurately with the intent to shock people, we are just as guilty as our opponents. I don’t know that the phrase ‘slave state’ is too strong to use, it just isn’t accurate and puts us in the same hypocritical boat as the antis.

37. My only problem with the term “slave state” is that it doesn’t go far enough to convey what is happening. The current crop of politicians, mostly in the anti-Constitution Party though not exclusively, are nothing more than Confidence Men, pretty good at promising but incapable of governing. I think you know who I mean.

    We’re seeing a generation made slaves, not being chased into nets and pits, but seduced out of their liberty by con artists, who want to leave them with nothing but a ball and chain of debt and dependence. And disarmed too.

    • “We’re seeing a generation made slaves, not being chased into nets and pits, but seduced out of their liberty by con artists, who want to leave them with nothing but a ball and chain of debt and dependence”

      F^ck if that aint the depressing truth…

38. Its a slave state for us & utopia for the grabbers. Hopefully we can get back to the constitution some time instead of the will of a prick dictator. Randy

39. I don’t f%$kin care if your a conservative, moderate, or a liberal…WE ALL ARE AMERICAN!!!! In a country with guaranteed FREEDOMS by OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, and you start taking such freedoms away, then in fact your creating a body of people who don’t have the same FREEDOMS as I in FL do….That’s really close to the friggin definition of the word SLAVE!! And if you have a problem with the word itself, chances are your lacking the knowledge to remember how this action was started. Can anyone remember the Emancipation Proclamation???? Basically giving the chance to vote and be as equal as the white gentlemen. Which clearly stated that the only people who could not vote, own property, keep and bare arms and be treated as equals up to this time were SLAVES AND ILLEGAL IMAGRENTS! So buy the US Government to say NO YOU PEOPLE HERE IN NYC CANT KEEP AND BARE ARMS, BUT YOU GUYS IN FL, AND TX CAN! There simply implying that the people in NYC aren’t equal as us in the south…SOUNDS SIMULAR TO THE WAY IT WAS 180 YEARS AGO ONLY ASS BACKWARDS!!!!!!

40. SLAVERY IS NOT BASED ON RACE, whoever said that is a MORAN!! My family came to this country almost 200 years ago, AS INDENTURED SERVENTS!! Im IRISH, and white! Slavery is in every race and in all kinds of places around the world. JOIN THE MILITARY, get off your ass and see the world from off your couch! It just think what your stating…Ohhhdont use that SLAVERY WORD, its not POLITICLY CORRECT, F U!! MY 1st A RIGHTS WONT BE INFRINGED APON EITHER!!

41. Weren’t the “original” gun control laws just to keep the newly freed slaves from keeping and bearing arms? Think of how well that worked for those who were disenfranchised their 2A rights. Now “new” gun control would disenfranchise EVERYONE, EXCEPT THE GOVERNMENT. How well do you think that will work out for us?!

42. I must say, I wasn’t expecting my exasperated comment to make it to the front page.

    What frustrates me the most is that the writers at TTAG should really know better. The writers here regularly point out the importance of having gun ownership represented by something other than the conservative white old men at the NRA. That having the likes of Ted Nugent and Glenn Beck seen as the “face” of our movement does more harm than good.

    Yet there seems to be a blind spot when it comes to the way certain language is going to turn off and alienate most listeners. In particular the incessant use of the term “slave state” to describe those states with restrictive gun control laws. All it does is confirm the suspicions that a great many people have, that gun rights advocates are all extreme right-wingers.

    Rallying the base and preaching to the choir may be an effective short-term strategy, but in the long run we’re going to have to reach out and expand the base. The far right is facing a demographic crisis as their traditional base is rapidly heading towards the grave, and as upcoming generations of voters are increasingly younger, more diverse, and more urban. If gun rights advocates put all of our eggs in the basket of angry old conservative white men, then our rights are going to die right along with them.

    Anyone who hasn’t already drank the kool-aid just laughs when someone makes the assertion that blue-states with more restrictive gun control laws represent the advancement of tyranny, and that those on the other side of the rift are the standard-bearers of liberty. Let’s not pretend that it’s anywhere near so cut and dried, because it simply isn’t.

    We’re currently in the midst of watching as red-states, most of which we would regard to be on the right side when it comes to gun freedoms, are chipping away at the right to vote as part of a cynical attempt to keep Republicans in power. In the name of countering illegal immigration many of these same states are implementing a “papers, please” society. And I fail to see how we can claim to be the champions of individuals liberty when we pat ourselves on the back every time some small town votes to require gun ownership.

    Lest you think this is turning into some sort of liberal rant, none of this is to ignore or excuse the authoritarians and wannabe tyrants on the other side. The threat to individual liberty from the likes of Bloomberg and Feinstein is hardly limited to the issue of guns. Bloomberg and the NYPD have become infamous for stomping on 4th Amendment rights with “stop and frisk”, and of course Feinstein seems to believe there are no limits on what the state may do in the interests of “national security”.

    There are plenty of authoritarians on both sides, but there are also plenty of relative libertarians on both sides. We dismiss and alienate natural allies on the “other” side at our own peril.

43. keep using slave states since it is correct and it makes the point

44. Slave State is provocative and gets a conversation started (maybe heated?).
    I think more of Jim Crow. I grew up in Mississippi where guns laws were Jim Crow until the late 90s, when CCW came in. There were no permits when I lived in MS. You could use certain things in your defense: More than 50 miles from home and not a vagrant. Carrying a large sum of money ($2500 I think – more than I ever had). You had a recorded threat against your life. So the assumption was that you were in the wrong unless you could prove different. Usually this meant they let you keep your gun if they liked you and took your gun if they didn’t. They could also prosecute if they desired. Most guns laws were enacted to keep the “undesirable” population in line. In the south it was mostly blacks but you can insert any ethnic or social minority and see most gun laws in the US.

    I like the fact there are many young gun owners that only own a Glock or other defensive pistol or rifle. In the last year, I have met 8 newbies who bought guns because they saw an attempt to limit ownership. Three said they tried to keep it quite because they didn’t want everyone to know they had one.

    As someone who has been shooting for 45 years, it is my duty to understand why these new folks own firearms. It is also my duty to introduce new shooters to the sheer fun of plinking with 22 to increase skill and recreate. Many of the new shooters I have met have never fired a 22.

    My local gun dealer told me that he figured about 15% of gun purchases at their store are new owners. The sell about 120 guns a week in the last year. The number of gun owners is increasing and we need to make sure they are welcome and responsible. Keep preaching – some of the choir hasn’t heard it yet.

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