How To Shoot A SAIGA-12 With a Recoil Reducer

1. Yeah if I were there I would have said KJW’s stance was fine….

   Hell, you should be able to fire a properly operating semi auto rifle like that from one hand.

   “Improperly setting bolt from backing off” or whatever my ass.

   One of the only user-initiated mechanical problems with guns I know of is the dreaded limp wristing of a Glock brand Glock.

   I’m glad you all were able to clear up the mechanical issue.

   • Back when ammo wasn’t impossible to find and expensive as hell one of my favorite end of the session ammo-wasting activities was to take a folding stock Mini and pretend it was Da Terminator’s AR-18. The recoil would keep the muzzle up and actually pretty level. Silly yes, but no more so than bump firing. Anyway, no failures of any kind.

     • +1

       This is an excellent example too.

       The actual physics of what is happening mechanically with an auto loading rifle is so fast, it’s kind of laughable to think that how one holds the rifle will affect it in any way.

2. I wouldn’t think that you could use a recoil reducer on a semi-shotty. If it would actually cycle reliably on a 930 or M2 then that and a comp might be a comfy package.

3. What? Wonder why we can’t see the gun choke? Looks like a good gun but doesnt sound like they have worked out all the bugs as yet even though they say they have. Makes me want one…not. Great close ups though.

   • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj0U8xUo_6Q

4. Seriously. I thought it was going to be a better video. More over it was someone getting 30 seconds of boob shot in with some old guy talking in the background.

   • Ever since RF wasn’t allowed to post links to Israeli models anymore….

     lol

   • I didn’t see any problems with the video.

     • Indeed. The point at which the old guy took the gun, the video became unwatchable.

       • Yeah stopped it at that point.

5. This is why people get frustrated when old guys start handing out info at the range. Her stance had nothing to do with the gun, but the old guy went on a two minute rant about holding the firearm. Saigas run like crap on weak loads, even after you tune them to run on weak loads, they still run like crap on weak loads. I realize the guy owned the gun and built-it, but what he did was modify the gas system of the Saiga so it could run on weak loads, and then was surprised when his modifications didn’t quite pan out. It’s like tuner cars, even the fastest turners go bang on the track when one part gets out of tune.

   • +1

     • I am no pro but semi shotguns are sensitive to light loads. Moral of the story: Dont run light loads and expect it to run perfectly.

       • Also:

         Don’t blame your rifle’s mechanical shortcomings on the professional shooter’s stance or you’ll look like an asshole.

6. I get really sick of dishonest manufacturers and gunsmiths blaming their ****-ups on the end user.

   My Glock 19 was throwing brass in my face and I got a lot of “oh, you’re not holding it tight enough” even though it didn’t do that in the first 500 rounds. Turns out the extractor was **** and a replacement part fixed the issue.

   I’ve experienced the same sort of crap with 1911s. “Oh, you haven’t put 500 rounds through it yet!”

   If the gun doesn’t run normally right out of the box something is wrong with it.

   Did this old guy apologize to Weiss?

   • What he said. R U listening Sig?

     • Don’t even get me started. I made the mistake of buying a Sig RCS Sport. The extractor was completely hosed (a MIM part that wasn’t tensioned with a proper spring) so I had to replace it with an EGW part on my dime.

       Also, the barrel looked like it was throated with a metal scraper, the disconnector track was really rough, and the breechface was so rough it had multiple failures to return to battery. All this **** had to be polished and redone (by another smith) before the gun would work right.

       Sig’s quality control is goddamn terrible. It’s a shame to see such a good company go down the drain. I really hope, at this point, that they go out of business for the **** they pull.

       • Sig keeps trying to make up for crappy QC with extra bling (on pistols).

         I am sad too. Sig used to be the most accurate brand of pistols out of the box and now you’re lucky if you get one that works right.

       • I know and it completely sucks. There are a lot of Sig fanboys who are willing to put up with all their crap and defend the brand to the hilt, too.

         They need to realize that they ain’t what they used to be. I expect a quality product for $750. Instead I had to shell out more money to make it right.

     • +1
       Sig Scorpion Carry, has ftf’d about 5% of the time. Been back to them twice. My (by almost double) most expensive pistol is my (by a shit ton) least reliable pistol.

7. FWIW – I have a Tank’s Rifle Shop 11/87 that my wife used to use for 3-gun that would run buckshot and slugs like a machine, but wouldn’t even cycle the bolt on 1150 fps trap loads for her. I could get it to cycle the bolt on the trap loads, but not reliably feed the next round. Using 1350-fps Sporting Clays loads, the bolt would cycle for my wife, but the same non-feeding issue for her. The difference was she weighs a buck twenty with rocks in her pocket and I weigh two-fifty plus. My body mass effectively stopped the recoil where her lighter body mass moved with the recoil. Solved the problem for her with first a Tank’s 1100 and then a Benelli Super M-1.

   I see the same thing with light loads in a 1911 platform and smaller(ish) people with a lack of either hand strength or proper form, causing the “limp-wrist” FTE or FTF. Lighter springs or heavier loads seem to solve the problem.

   All that being said, I’m sure Miss Weiss DOESN’T have any issues with proper shooting form……….

   • KjW was nice enough to listen and remain silent despite knowing all tbat advice already.

   • I like her form, proper or not.

8. I love Saigas and all things AK, and I love shotguns, but the two of them were never meant to be together. Saiga shotguns will have to do a complete 180 in terms of reliability AND get a complete magazine redesign before I’ll ever think about one.

   It’s the only kind of shotgun that you cannot leave loaded, because the magazine spring deforms the plastic shotgun shell against the feed lips after a few days. The first shot will fire, but your fun ends real quick when the oval-shaped second round tries to enter the cylindrical-shaped chamber.

9. Thanks for all your thoughts and encouragement, guys! This particular build is fitted with ITT Enidine “Shot Shock” recoil reduction. And, as some of you correctly observed, we were indeed shooting light loads. Estate 1255 FPS, 7 1/2 game shot.

   The Enidine “Shot Shock” is literally a hydraulic shock absorber, and it acts very much like an automotive shock absorber. So, as the shell is discharged, the receiver moves rearward in the same direction as the bolt carrier. With heavier loads this isn’t an issue because the gas volume is sufficient to dirve the carrier all the way back through its full length of travel, pretty much regardless of stance.

   It can get a bit tricky when shooting lighter loads, because there is less gas available to drive the bolt carrier back. So, the challenge of recoil mitigation vs. less gas volume generated by lighter loads is overcome by changing the physics a bit.

   Leaning into the shot, firmly buttressing and pulling the stock into the shoulder takes up a bit of the “slack” in the “Shot Shock” system, preventing some of the rearward movement of the receiver, and lessening the possibility of a short stroke.

   Kirsten’s stance is outstanding, and her skills with both the Saiga and Benelli are truly impressive.

   Mike Rogers
   The “old guy” in the video, who was fortunate enough to shoot with Kirsten Weiss, Dan Zimmerman, and Robert Farago.

10. Hilarious. Gun malfunctions, old dude thinks the problem lies with the chick firing said gun.

11. I don’t get it.
    Recoil absorbers have been out there for a while.
    I believe Mako makes an adapter for AKs that is recoil absorbant and an ar stock that is also absorbant you can add as well not to mention knoxx and mesa tactical.
    Why modify the gun when you can just switch out the stock?
    Besides, semiautos are less punchy with recoil due to the gass system in the first place.
    Sorry, don’t see the point.

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