In a Facebook post last night, big green let it be known that they think New York’s SAFE Act sucks. Sure, it’s about two months late, but it’s good to know they care. Remmy also defended their recently-awarded government contract (we won it fair and square!) and pledged all due consideration in determining where they’ll do bidness in the future. Is this evidence that Remington’s feeling heat from their customers? Or that they’re beginning to shake off the bonds of the Freedom Group? Stay tuned . . .
To our Remington fans,
We believe the NY SAFE Act is unconstitutional and was passed in a questionable fashion.
Remington and its employees worked diligently with pro-gun legislators to prevent the Act’s passage. We actively participated in the Albany rallies and drove the letter-writing campaign to stop this anti-gun legislation.
The recently awarded Department of Defense (Special Operations Command) contract, questioned by some as a “pay-off,” has been in development for years — it has nothing to do with NY State.
While we are unhappy with the misguided acts of our elected politicians, Remington will not run or abandon its loyal and hard working 1,300 employees without considerable thought and deliberation. Laws can be overturned and politicians voted out of office, but the decisions we make today will affect our people, their families and entire communities for generations.
Please bear with us as we determine the most appropriate way to satisfy our customers and protect our employees.
It ain’t a hat trick to make that sort of decision. Same thing I said before. I’m not exactly Remington friendly but I respect that you can’t just make a decision like that based on how others feel. The nature of a skilled and specialized labor force in the business of fabricating any items of a known quality is not one that uprooting said force has ever been advisable.
Question now is whether you can have Remington jump ship and afford the move. Losing labor when you’ve got high profile orders to fill ain’t a great idea.
You are absolutely correct. But at the same time, I’d rather have a nest of fire ants in my Jockey shorts than a new Remmy product in my gun safe.
I’ve faced fire ants; that’s quite an uncomfortable image.
Any Texans or Oaklahomans might find this amusing:
take a length of 1/2″ tubing and stick one end at least two feet into the nest;
make a goose-neck in it by draping it through some cinder blocks;
fill the “trap” with water (this is a humidifier, and is important!);
set an oxy-acetylene rig down as far from the nest as the hoses will reach;
set the torch to a large oxidizing flame so lean that it’s violet and barely stays lit;
scrape it out and fit the nozzle into the free end of the tubing;
wait at least thirty seconds;
lay down a string soaked in gasoline, with one end at the nest and one at least fifty feet away;
light the string and walk away.
No more fire ants.
This works, but be responsible as this is an improvised thermobaric device and merits a healthy respect.
“No more fire ants.”
Nope, they are still there, you just change the meaning of the adjective “fire.”
Russ, do you hear knocking on your door? Better check on the dog.
Yeah – I was wonderin’ what that barking was all about…
Is there a vid of this somewhere?
I doubt it; this was my approach to ’em when I lived in Kirby (just east of San Antonio) in ’89.
Far’s I know, I’m the only guy ever did it. It done blowed up real good, eheh eheh eheh…
A friend of mine showed me that drill but filled up a slice-of-bread-sized sandwich bag with “perfect” cutting gas and zipped it shut. We were inside a machine shop and holy shit what an explosion from such a small space. Pressure wave and all – we were probably less than 50 feet away. Maybe that’s what my tinnitus came from…
Thanks, Russ, but I much prefered your recipe for fried shrimp.
Having fallen asleep on a fire ant hill as a Marine, with a partially eaten MRE in my pocket, puts me firmly in the camp where I would rather have my 700 LTR .308 in my safe. Its decently accurate and has never failed me so far. Plus, I can actually find ammo for it.
That’s fair.
How about a move over a period of time. Buy/build a new plant in less hostile territory, move the less critical production first and get ramped up to do the rest. If necessary finish the DOD contract in Ilion and then shut off the lights as the last crate is placed on the truck.
Getting wrapped up in hedge funds and “capital” groups generally sucks up any cash flow they might have used to pay for employee relocation. But yes, a gradual move with publicized plans to set the screws to the politicians is a good idea.
A move or even the threat of a move, gradual or otherwise, has a very disruptive effect on operations. While, many at Remington would welcome it, even if their moving expenses are not paid, as long as there’s a job waiting for them is AZ, TX, NC, etc. Then there are the people who own homes in the Ilion area. They would become impossible to sell and almost worthless. It would be just one more upstate ghost town (of which there are many still left over from the first Cuomo regime).
You start to get tribal resentment between the two camps – those who are moving with the company and stake their future on it and those who feel betrayed. I’ve seen it and it’s ugly.
The best way to do it is like the Baltimore Colts.
+1
Long ago I worked in a machine shop and learned first hand the entirety of the manufacturing process. It’s no easy feat to move a factory, let alone 1,300 skilled employees who have families and other ties to local communities. While we’d all love to live and work in firearms-friendly states, it isn’t always as easy as just selling and moving.
On the other hand if legislation prevents them from manufacturing firearms that consumers actually want then if they stay, their employees would lose their jobs and they’ll go out of business. It still sucks, but it’s something to consider.
Basically that’s the argumemt I made to a stranger wondering why I was turning down Remmy ammo, which lead to the discussion on Remmy sticking with NY. He argued they couldn’t just up and leave, I countered that if they didn’t the could be legislated out of business, he argued that the govt contracts would keep then rolling, I countered that other companies get the best contracts and to compete with Glock, Sig, and HK would require greater effort than moving. He then proceeded to tell me that HK his favorite gun maker because “in all the games I play, they’re the best”. And that’s when I knew I was talking to an idiot.
That…really, really…hurt to read. If my armory consisted of what a programmer knows about firearms when he runs code for my favorite game…the idea just hurts to imagine.
I agree with LC Judas… that much stupid hurts my brain…
i cant facepalm hard enough…
You ever been in a shitty situation with no great way to get out of it? Only bad options and worse ones? Yeah, it’s like that.
Mebbe so, mebbe not – but if that’s the case, then say so. Not “we were there all along, you just didn’t hear us”.
You talkin’ ’bout my marriage?
It’s late in the hour to be saying you were fighting just as hard as everyone else, just more quietly. The issues currently in conflict affect far more than 1,300 employees.
I’ll give you fhat, Ralph. I don’t own a Remington yet. Can’t say that their rifles are must haves. You can customize any decent bolt gun much the same, I prefer my Mossbergs (who are camping in CT but not the direct topic here) and honestly, I’m more curious than anything.
Remington would be the biggest yet to make a statement if they do move. And it would go to show that money and ignorance aren’t the only things that govern a gun company. Not holding my breath or expecting a miracle but…its definitely an interesting proposition that a high profile company freshly entitled to government money considers making an obviously contrary political statement. May be a disappointment but not a foregone conclusion on principle.
I’m pretty confident there are qualified machinists outside the state of NY. I also strongly believe Remington could find a much cheaper (and friendlier) state to do business in. It would be a win-win. Offer relocation services for your best employees. They should leap at the chance to leave the USSR, I mean NY, and move somewhere cheaper and friendlier to their company.
Of course Remington can always stay. They don’t make anything I can’t buy from someone else in a better state so that as little as possible of my money is moving into the coffers of a place like NY. Regardless, for now, until the states laws change or Remington moves they won’t be getting anymore of my money. (shrug) Just too easy to spend it with someone else.
I respect that decision so much that I won’t buy any Remington product that cannot legally be possessed in New York. Since I have plenty of bolt-actions, I guess I’m no longer a customer.
I understand Remington’s decision to stay but they should ban all sales to anti-2a states, starting with NY.
Yep. Remington deciding to stop sales to the NY gov’t might actually get some attention.
My take on this might be due to encephalo-colonic blockage, butt … I mean “but” … work with me here. Why is it a necessarily bad thing (not saying y’all are saying it is or ain’t) that Remmington remains in NY? Could one perspective be that Remmington now stands as a monument to the hypocrisy of the NY gun banners? They won’t allow their humble subjects to freely exercise their 2A protected rights, but have no problem hosting a gun manufacturer, a veritable spewer-outer of these dangerous, go-off-in-your-pants, accidentley-shoot-your-neighbor rods of noisy, scary black death dealing? Don’t they know the very tools manufactured in their “common sense” state could wind up in the hands of some scoundrel in a gun-free murder capital like … I don’t know … Chicago?
I admit I’d probably get a little patriotic-weepy for a few minutes if I heard Remmington decided to move to a freer state. But maybe it’s best they stand their ground, for now at least. Remain as a symbol.
I wrote this sober so it’s hard for me to tell if it makes a lick of sense. If any of you discern errors herein, I’d welcome correction.
+1
Encephalo-colonic? Almost spewed on reading that…
Yup. Had to have been sober.
And, yes. It does make sense.
I’m filing encephalo-colonic with gluteal glaucoma. As in, “I’m not coming in today, I’m sick.”
“I’ve got gluteal glaucoma. I just can’t see my ass going to work today.”
Matt
Your picture next to your name absolutely ROCKS!
that’s fine, and neither will we spend our hard earned cash on products made in a state that screws the US Constitution.
Yawn.
Let the haters begin hating (again). I won’t even both reminding them that Remington has one (1) factory in New York, and two factories and corporate HQ in gun-friendly states. I won’t even point out their hypocritism in ignoring the fact that Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Mossberg, Kimber, Colt, USFA, etc have facilities in uberliberal freedom-hating states.
Lest it be said I’m a Remington fanboy, guess what? I only own three Remingtons, which is less than ten percent of all my guns. Two of those Remingtons were made in Kentucky.
If it meets my needs and desires, I will buy a Remington that has a 2a friendly state engraved on the barrel or receiver or wherever they’re putting it for that firearm.
One of my most lusted after firearms right now is a newly manufactured Ithaca 1911. They’re made in my free state of Ohio.
And with the current legislation passing in those states all should be considering a move to a less hostile business environment. It doesn’t make sense to support the governments that are trying to put you out of business by paying business taxes to those governments. Spend that money where it will be appreciated and not used to make your job harder.
Remington needs to move. Besides that, they were VERY quiet. What good is a statement/message 2 months late? They are joining the party WAY too late.
Too late to cause any turmoil locally.
Like when retired cops join up with LEAP.
Secure that income and pension before making waves. Then when your opinion is no longer relevant and your pension is secure make all the waves you want.
if they bring 1,000 rounds of 9mm back to $230 some time soon, i will be happy even if they don’t leave ny.
Remington sucks, this is them trying to cover up the fact they just signed a contract with NYC PD to supply sniper rifles. They now want to say we won that deal fair and square, its easy to win when your the only crap company to sell to the NYPD and the other government agencies of NYC!! And don’t forget the Walker trigger in the 700 model bolt action rifles. Remington figured it was cheaper to settle a few wrongfull death suits then recall a trigger at the big cost of under 10 dollars! YOU SUCK Remington!!! You care only about the bottom line, MONEY!! Give me a Mossberg any day of the week, family owned and operated! Id rather buy a broke Mossy than be given a new Remington!! They haven’t bin worth a shit since all these big companies started making all the calls. Nothing like a business major making up the game plan for a firearms company. Everyones got their own favorit firearm, that being said look up how they handled the Walker trigger problem, it would be funny if it wasn’t so scary.
The walkEr trigger was a phony controversy. All of the “wrongful deaths” pinned on remington involved triggers modified out of spec… And some complete and total morons who couldn’t comprehend the concept of keeping the muzzle in a safe direction
Mossberg, oh yeah, Connecticut. Such a friendly pro gun state……..
For now… They’ve at least talked about moving in a timely manner, even if their follow through sucks.
Your wrong, I saw the 20/20 report where Mr. Walker was interviewed. HE SAID” they took out the safty check personal that I had assigned to make sure every trigger was checked at three different stations, shortly after I retired the bean counters got rid of them” not to mention multiple police depts. across the US stopped using the 700. In snipper training at Fort Bragg the instructers called it a Remington moment, when safty on, finger off the trigger, and you bump the bolt handle and BOOM!!!
20/20 report. Now there is some unbiased reporting. /sarcasmoff
What I’d really like to see is for every single gun and ammo manufacturer to grow a spine and refuse to sell to the government until all anti-gun laws are repealed.
What are the moral implications of buying a used remington?
It’s fine. The money isn’t going to Remy. I bought a used one a few months ago for an upcoming trip to Africa. And I’m a practicing boycotter.
I won’t buy anything out of NY, CT, NJ, CO, IL.
I actually write companies and tell them I bought a competitors product because company x is from a free state,
I bought an 870 Express (barebones 18″ barrel, 4+1) a day or two before the SAFE Act clusterf-ck landed on our heads, wanted a Mossberg but my shop in the midst of selling anything that wasn’t bolted down was fresh out. So I took the next best thing for $350 and overall it’s a pretty solid piece.
While I don’t regret showing support for the factory workers over in Ilion in a state that seems bent on throwing out every blue-collar manufacturing job and taxing the rest of us to make up for it, Remington’s 2 month silence on the SAFE Act and their lucrative government contracts when they could’ve taken a stand is proof positive of their sliminess. The 870 stays (for now) but that’s the last time I throw money at these police state cronies.
In contrast, look at the lucrative “deals” Colorado law makers tried to buy Magpul off with. Magpul told them to stuff it and are carrying through with commitment to stand by their principles.
Where is the outrage over all the other manufacturers in anti gun states, like Connecticut, Massachusetts, California??
Like Smith & Wesson, Colt, Mossberg? Seems to me those who have their panties in a knot with Remington might like to consider being at least a little consistent.
I have no problem with Remington’s position, or with Remington products. I have owned their products for 50 years.
I also respect that they are putting their employees, and their families, as a higher priority than all those that threaten to “boycott” their products.
Few freedoms are left to us today. Our choice of weapon is still our own ( at least in Texas).
I run a manufacturing business and you have no bloody clue how hard it is to get good people – I’m not talking about people with advanced machining skills let alone machining skills on YOUR products, I’m talking about how hard it is to get people who show UP TO WORK! Remmy should move but doing it precipitously would be to throw decades worth of human capital and knowledge in the trash. That would affect the product quality, which ultimately for any business is your life blood. Crappy products mean death. Remmy has to ease out of NY over the long term, but a quick move could be fatal and that benefits no one on our side of the RKBA.
The first move ought to be prohibiting any expansion in NY. Build the next generation of products somewhere else and make a splash about it. That is the marriage of economic reality and principle that needs to happen.
Its simple you open up a second factory somewhere pro gun and slowly shift production there as you build up the skillset of your new employees. Offer some “key” people a bonus to move and act as the foundation of this new factory. It might be a few years but you can shift your entire factory eventually. Moreover from a business standpoint labor is a lot cheaper in most states besides NY so you will gain a lot there.
Why is Remington, who’s headquarters are in North Carolina and who has manufacturing in New York plus Kentucky… any different than say Mossberg (headquarters are in Connecticut and has manufacturing in Connecticut and Texas)… or any different than Ruger (headquarters in Connecticut, manufacturing in Connecticut and Arizona)…. or any different than Savage (headquarters in Ma with manufacturing in Massachusetts and Canada)?
And all of the BAD “New York” made ammunition… all made in Arkansas!
My point is… if we’re going to boycott Remington for having manufacturing in an anti-gun state, then we should be boycotting a whole lot of other companies and reserve ourselves to buying guns from foreign owned companies or AR-15s from all of the “free state” manufacturers. In the long run, I don’t see that as helping our cause.
Rem quality has gone downhill. Their last few years of production have not impressed me. I now seek rem stuff from prior to 2009. I had a Rem Marlin 336 that took a lot of work to shoot like the Marlin 336 produced in ’07. Remington could always offer a moving bonus to where they eventually located. I suppose the gun friendly families that work at the plant would benefit from living in a gun friendly state or is Remington not concerned with the rights and freedoms of its employees.
From the smell of the letter, it seems (and I use that term loosely), that Remington is going to move from NY over the long term. I’m sure the SAFE Act is one of the drivers, but I also believe the labor cost will be the bigger driver of a move. NY is a big union state, whereas for example, NC is a right-to-work state, which would typically have lower labor costs (not just because of rtw). Plus the other driver is automation in manufacturing.
I’m also interested in what Beretta is going to do? They have a warehouse in Fredericksburg, VA area, and manufacturing in southern MD. They have said they will move, since MD has gone full retard (they were already at 75% retard, prior to this latest round of stupidity). There is manufacturing/warehouse flex space available in Northern VA. Of course Northern VA is starting to pick up the retard vibe…
My antipathy toward Remmy more about its obnoxious ownership than the obnoxious state where it is located. The New York connection is just the cherry on top.
IBM in the 1990’s dumped something like 60K workers and closed multiple huge plants in the mid-Hudson valley area of NY State. It depressed the local economies for a decade as housing prices plummeted and families where crushed with several members of a household dependent on IBM lost jobs. Local governments reeled from lost tax base.
Remington understands that while it wouldn’t be as widespread or impactful to localities as IBM, it still would hurt. And hurt real hard to some. I give them credit for going slow.
Remember the Marlin plant closure and work moved to Remington facilities? The North Haven Marlin plant was suddenly shuttered, so worries about the Ilion workforce is showing a double standard by the Freakdom Group.
That move has, in reality, caused the death of Marlin products, we’ve all seen and heard what the “new Marlin” stuff is like.
The CEO of Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc. announced last week that the gun manufacturer will create 500 to 700 new jobs — but not anywhere near its headquarters in Connecticut.
Ruger gets it, why doesn’t Remington.
Because Remington is run by a bunch of hedge fund parasites out of CT and NYC. Don’t believe for a second any blather from them about their employees, or commitments or the community or anything like that.
Hedge fund parasites would sell their own mothers to a Turkish whorehouse if they thought they could make a buck by doing so.
The decision by Remington to stay put has to do with money. Full stop, thanks for playing. They think that they’re going to make more money in the short term (because hedge fundies never think long-term) by staying put than by moving. And this assessment is probably true.
In the meantime, they’re going to be seeking ways to dump this issue off their balance sheet.
As usual Mr. D.G.,
Spot on.
You and a few others here always get read by me. Calmer voices in a shouting crowd.
NY left Remington a long time ago. Those who know the Mohawk Valley know that it is Remington. If they left the area would be absolutely devastated. I get that it would be awesome to put that on Cuomo, but there are real livlihoods and families at stake here. I’m extra sympathetic as a NY’er and, trust me, I desperately want Cuomo and his NYC communist pals vilified and ultimately destroyed. I’m just not certain cheering for Remington to move wouldn’t be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
“Remington will not run or abandon its loyal and hard working 1,300 employees without considerable thought and deliberation.” Another possibility is to open a second manufacturing plant for the guns & magazines banned in NY.
Idaho’s Governor, and the mayor of our small town here in Idaho, have already invited Remington and a bunch of other gun/ammo companies to move to Idaho. Hey, we like guns, we are located on a freeway and main line RR track, and we have a State legislature that is 81% conservative Republicans. Drives the Dems nuts – Republicans with a super-majority.
When I originally commented I clicked the “Notify me when new comments are added” checkbox
and now each time a comment is added I get four e-mails with the same comment.
Is there any way you can remove people from that service?
Appreciate it!
Remington can do what they feel is right but my dollars will go elsewhere. They’re free to choose their path, I’m free to choose mine.
They did nothing wrong.
Totally agree.
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