Illinois Self-Defense Case Looks Like Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman 2.0

1. AFAIK, the Zimmerman case was about a hispanic and a black teen, except the hispanic’s last name threw a big monkey wrench in it all.

   • I’m pretty sure he was a “white hispanic”…and his gun was “fully-semiautomatic.”

     • And “Love” sounds like it might be a ‘people of color’ name, while “Hartman” is definitely white-white.

     • “I’m pretty sure he was a “white hispanic”

       Well, the dead ‘teen’ had a White mother, so in the interests of fairness in labeling people, the dead ‘teen’ was a “White African-American”.

       Or am I missing something?

       • Barack Obama had a white mother.

         It seems that society considers a mixed race child to be “black”.

       • If I remember my history correctly, 1/16th African American meant the person in question is African American. A rule from the days of slavery. Heard this from more than one of my black friends and at least one pre-politically incorrect history books. If I’m wrong, please correct me.

       • Actually the formal term is called “hypodescent” and is derived from the historic “one drop” rule. If you are a child from a mixed-race union, i.e., white parent/black parent, American society expects you to identify as black. Put another way, descent rules in America require offspring from mixed marriages to be assigned to he parent/’s group which has the lowest status.

       • Umm, wouldn’t a White African American be Charlize Theron?

       • To add on the Gartison Hall’s answer.

         Hypodescent is cultural. A mixed raced individual is automatically assigned to the less empowered race. Hence, Obama is “Black.”
         Some of this goes back to Jim Crow and the “one drop rule.” That is anyone with any amount of non-white blood is assigned to that race. The hypocrisy of this is shown in a 1924 Virginia law. Know as the “Pocahontas Exception.” The problem was that most of the “First Families of Virginia” traced their line back to Thomas Wolfe and Pocahontas. Under the “one drop rule” that made all of then “Indian.” Avoid this problem the law said “Virginians whose ancestry was one-sixteenth Native American or less were declared to be “white” in the Racial Integrity Law of 1924. Whites could not have one drop of black blood, but they could have a Native American grandparent.” As I said hypocrisy.
         Last, Don’t bother to contact Pocahontas’ tribe about being descended from her. They won’t have you.

         https://study.com/academy/lesson/hypodescent-definition-examples.html
         http://www.virginiaplaces.org/population/onedrop.html

       • So Elizabeth Warren is very likely to be a Native American! Good for her.

   • Funny how the article doesn’t explain anything about what transpired! So I guess this perfect “black” angel was strolling along and a “white supremacist” farmer decided to shoot him! I wonder if it was with a fully semi-auto black military-style assault weapon!

     • If you shoot a black person with a black fully semi-automatic military assault weapon with a high-speed magazine clip, is that what they mean by a “black on black” shooting?

2. just brings it right back to the surface again

   if you hear someone yell for help or think someone needs some?

   do you go and help
   = be a hero and a good guy?
   or
   = save someone and still get sued for all you have or get jailed

   its starting to be better to stay in the house…call the cops and they will take care of it all in a few hours…maybe???

   • Are you referring to a DNR patient, or saving someone’s life with a tourniquet and them ending up losing the limb because EMS doesn’t get there for 12 hours? I’m trying to understand how you get sued for saving someone’s life. There are laws in place to prevent you from being sued in the case of both of those scenarios.

     • Ummm, I think they’re not talking about someone potentially being good Samaritan with a tourniquet here.

       They’re talking about someone potentially being a good guy with a gun.

       How’d you miss that part?

     • expl –pull a person out of a wrecked burning car…they get paralyzed because (the lawyers says) you moved them…you regardless of what ever laws for ‘good Samaritans” WILL GET SUED!

       believe me its happened!

       because of lawyers—just keep walking nothing to see here…tell me I am wrong?

       • It is an ancient principle going back to the Common Law in England that if you render aid when you had no duty to do so, you are liable if you do not do so reasonably and the person is harmed.

         FWIW.

     • Good Samaritan laws work as well as the laws preventing people from suing gun manufacturers when a criminal uses a gun they produced in a crime. If the plaintiff can find a judge who is willing to legislate from the bench,, he wins a few million, otherwise, he goes onto the next legal lottery. See, too many unelected leftist judges putting their ideology above the law and ambulance chasers know it.

     • The “Good Samaritan Laws” protect someone that provides assistance to injured person.
       The kicker is that the assistance must be reasonable and within the Samaritan’s scope of training.
       I can provide CPR, dress a wound, but cannot do much more. No surgery for example. While eons ago I was trained to start an IV, in no way can I do so today.
       Does that mean I can provide assistance and not get sued? No. First, if the person is conscious, they verbally have to give approval to receive help. Second, you can do everything right and still get sued. I know of a nurse that was sued for saving a baby in a car wreck. The argument was the nurse “should have know” that the baby’s injuries would be crippling and she did too much by savin* the baby’s life.

3. Gee, the Democrats and mainstream media would have you think all gun owners want to slay minority teens.

   • If minority teens stopped committing crimes, they’d stop getting shot while committing crimes.

4. I have several friends in central Florida. All predicted a Zimmerman conviction. The trial was to be a formality. I said, “Don’t be so sure.” In spite of my law enforcement experience, and having worked more than one homicide, they jeered me. I tried not to look smug the first time I saw them after the trial concluded. As an aside, I don’t see the national media attention in this case that Zimmerman/Martin generated. Could it be the media prefers there eggs for breakfast instead of on their face?

   • If the leftist media have any capacity to learn from looking foolish after getting something spectacularly wrong in the name of a good narrative, I’ve yet to see such evidence.

     Not a comment on this particular case, by the way, I have no idea what happened here.

5. “Their eggs.” Damn spell check.

6. Gee the dead yout looks like one of MY kids…except MY sons don’t engage in criminal activities. I hope the white guy gets whats coming-exoneration😄

   • Did you also notice that his mom looks like she is 29 years old — which is pretty much impossible of course since the dead son was 19 years old. What it does mean, though, is that the mom was exceptionally young — on the order of 13 or 14 years old when she gave birth to the dead son. And that often means a poor upbringing with violent children as a result which would support the Good Samaritan’s righteous self-defense legal defense. I am putting my money on the Good Samaritan walking away with an acquittal.

     • Yeah, I just looked at the mom’s photos on FakeBook and found a photo of her holding her son when he was something like 8 months old and the mom looked like she was about 14 or maybe 15 years old.

       And I did not see a single photo of the father.

       A young teenage mom and no dad on the scene is an utter disaster and often results in young male children growing up to be monsters. I have a hunch that we will find out at trial that this 19 year-old “angel” was actually more on the violent devilish side.

7. The Zimmerman case became a media sensation because a white jew killed a black boy. Oops… Once the media figured out that Zimmerman was nether white, nor Jewish, it was too late. They had to continue their tirade, otherwise the world would have proof that the media is highly racist.

   Same, once they figured out the black “boy” was actually a thug, much older and nastier than they presented.

   • Well put!

   • The Fake News media would much rather report Zimmerman as White… It fits better for their Fake News Agenda and their attempt for the bottom feeders to score ratings…What Losers….

8. So, when is the class-action lawsuit going to happen against the media for defamation, agenda-seeking, false reporting, and purposefully misleading public perception for political reasons before all the facts come to light?

   Also, when are parents going to be prosecuted for obstructing justice and creating false narratives to sway public opinion on social media?

   • I would love to see that happen, however, I’m still on the side of 1A, and protection for media, no matter how stupid and inaccurate their information. We don’t need better media, we need a better educated populous. One is easier and more expedient, but leads to rights lost down the road.

     Besides, the gov will never allow a suit to move forward against their cheerleading pets. Media is a gov cheerleading squad. Remember Gulf 1? They backed that play hardcore.

     • Dead Wrong !…. The Fake News Media is purely politically opinionated, oh since say around, November 8, 2016. True journalism and accurate news reporting was found dead on the night President Trump was elected. But yet they are too ignorant and stupid to see their ratings plummeting. Now they are just in it to bash our President, his Family and Children… for 15 minutes of fame. They are sh**ing in their nest…just like hollyweird ……..VOTE !!!…Republican in the mid terms in November and TRUMP in 2020… Let’s end this Libtard nonsense for GOOD !!!

   • Zimmerman sued NBC over their “editing” of
     GZ: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
     911: OK, and this guy — is he black, white, or Hispanic?
     GZ: He looks black.

     down to

     This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

     He got an apology, and nothing more. Libel is very difficult to prove, which is in some ways a good thing. Strict libel laws would hang over reporters’s heads like the sword of Damocles, hindering their ability to perform investigative reporting (which at least one or two still do).

     • Who would that be? (sarc)

9. In this Illinois case, Mr. Hartman’s mother, Melissa Hartman, wants justice in her son’s death.

   Justice? I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
   Revenge would be closer to what she wants, not surprisingly.

10. I guess that Mr. Love is not a ham sandwich.

    • Yeah, if he can’t get a grand jury to support indictment for murder, I would think he’d have some real trouble making his case to a trial jury.

11. They’re going to have a VERY hard time proving 1st degree murder when the people involved had never met each other prior to the incident. More so, when the shots were clearly meant to disable, not kill.

    • There is nothing in the any of the articles I found to support a 1st degree murder charge. Is there a witness other than Love and the guy that ran off before it happened?

    • This is why you don’t deliberately shoot someone in the legs.

      1: It’s actually quite lethal as you can bleed out easily from leg wounds, see ‘femoral artery’.

      2: If you can take the time to deliberately go for a presumably less-lethal shot, then you weren’t in fear for your life.

      3: if they actually are determined in doing you harm, leg shots with anything less than a rifle or 12ga won’t mechanically stop them.

      • All correct. I’m talking about this case in particular. It’s going to be REALLY hard to prove intent when the scumbag in question only took hits to less lethal areas of his body.

      • FYI… Illinois law does not require you to “fear for your life”… lethal force is authorized to stop ANY “forcible felony”. One bright spot, when he gets off, he will have civil immunity due to the exact same Illinois statute.

        • Exactly. Looks like an over-eager DA. There seems to be zero evidence that this was a first degree murder. We know that the MSM will only present the very worst stuff they find (or manufature it like with Zimmerman.) I could see a manslaughter charge sticking, but not murder in the first.

          Perhaps the DA is thinking about agit-prop and not about conviction. Press a ludicrous 1st degree charge that you know will fail and rally up the BLM crowd into demanding lynching justice. Just my opinion but I think this may be what is happening.

12. TTAG loves the race baiting posts, it’s actually the backbone of the site and deserves an entire section devoted to it in the menu icon.

    • Yeah, stating facts are exactly the same thing as race-baiting. Idiot.

    • Says the guy who posts under a race baity pen name.

13. From Clicks to flicks to votes

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/08/paramount_owes_america_an_apology_for_jayzs_trayvon_series.html

14. Does Hartman’s spermdoner/”daddy” have anything to say about this. Or just a big mouth no class babymama yapping.

    Defense should request the ADA be directed to pay all defense fees/expenses/

    • Given the age of the mother “seeking justice” and the fact that she gave her offspring her own last name rather than that of Mr. Baby Daddy, she may not have been able to establish which supplier actually got the credit, or perhaps she never even knew his name.

15. In any self-defense case, everything is naturally going to hinge on exactly what happened and in what order during their interaction leading up to the shooting. As of now, we apparently know next to nothing about that.

16. Where is the father? Prison?

    • What are your parents? Siblings?

      • Aw, the snowflake was triggered. Better find a safe space so you don’t have to face reality.

    • First we have to figure out WHO is the father.

      • Bet the mama needs to figure that out too.

      • Someone call Maury.

17. It might have been impossible to do so here, but it’s a good reminder to use every effort to escape a situation without firing a weapon… even if it means backing down. It’s ALSO a good reminder that shooting someone in the leg is nothing less than lethal force.

    Even if exonerated, this guy’s life it dramatically changed by this event. The jury pool in the area might favor him if they’re self-sufficient themselves.

18. Hey “Truth About Guns” moderator. You are being somewhat less than truthful. Why don’t you show Trayvon Martin’s REAL “thug” picture? It seems that YOU are perpetuating the falsehood by posting Trayvon Martin’s picture as a twelve-year-old rather than his more recent facebook “thug” picture.

    • Maybe it’s time to work on your reading comprehension.

      The picture TTAG posted was taken from ABC’s coverage of the Zimmerman case. TTAG was using it as an example of how the media is attempting to paint Love as an aggressive criminal, by showing his mugshot, and Hartman as an innocent kid, by showing a younger picture of him smiling, just like they did with Zimmerman and Martin years ago.
      And the media’s treatment of the two cases also shows similarities.
      The top photo comes from ABC News, the bottom from the Peoria Journal-Star.

    • I think the picture that TTAG put above was from 11 months before the shooting at which time he was 16. I hope you weren’t fooled by the picture of the 32 year old rapper “Game”.

19. Even though he seems to have a white mother, saying he is mixed race means very little. If the truth be told, most blacks in the US and Canada(African Americans) are mixed race.

    That is just the media trying to make the criminal into a choir boy and an older white man farmer into a murderous lunatic. Lets spin it and see what comes out…….

    • I think the picture that TTAG put above was from 11 months before the shooting at which time he was 16. I hope you weren’t fooled by the picture of the 32 year old rapper “Game”.

      • Sorry rt66paul, I misplaced my reply to you rather than ‘anarchyst’ who I meant to reply to.

    • Hey, are blacks in UK or Sweden “African-Americans”? If not that, then what?

20. I understand why you said it the way you said it but why did you have to say it the way you said it?

    “..a 59-year-old white farmer named James Love shot the unarmed, mixed-race 19-year-old twice”

    Why is the race of the farmer important? Why is the race of the deceased important? Why could it have just been a 59 year old farmer shot a 19 year old , twice, in self defense?

    We can’t move into a post racial society until we stop making race the most important thing in every situation.

    .

    Now…… can someone give me a hand, I seem to be on top of a soap box all of a sudden.

    • Gee Chip what makes you think we’re in any post-racial paradise?!? Barry Soetoro set race relations back 50 years. And Trump was elected as a reaction. You’re living in a dream land if you don’t think race matters…

      • “…Gee Chip what makes you think we’re in any post-racial paradise”

        I’m not saying race doesn’t matter, I am saying that it won’t quit mattering until people quit focusing on it.

        Now are you going to help my down from my soapbox are are you just going to stand there gawking?

        • I agree completely with you. Race will continue to remain a divisive issue in this country until every form (both .Gov and private) have a box that’s says “American” instead of “____-American”. The more we separate ourselves based on our ancestry the more we harm our nation. But the media and the rest of the Left love their race baiting and identity politics, so I’m afraid it is here to stay.

          Now get down off that damn soapbox. *throws up homemade ladder* ….good luck…. 😒

    • If you can’t get through a conversation or writing a news article without bringing race into the conversation, then you are a racist. Does that help?

21. And this case shows why you don’t shoot someone in the leg. Unless that’s all that’s available.

22. then lets not forget this “missed on purpose fact”

    tayvon might have been ‘gay bashing’ zimmerman

    and his girl friend testified to that fact while calling him a ‘cracker’

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/rush-jeantel-shows-martin-may-have-been-gay-basher-will-allen/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKGlmle8eY4

23. “In addition to Hartman’s June 2017 arrest, court records show his mother, Melissa Kelly, filed an emergency order of protection against him on January 16, 2018.”

    temper, temper!

    my mom taught all of my anger management classes. she finally gave me back my cherry poptart comix.

    • Ho ho ho!! Since his death, she has been on Facebook saying what a precious little angel he was. Very interesting!

      • Lookin for juicy book/tv deals…..The golddiggers hungry…..

24. Don’t anybody bring up the old “Stand your ground” BS. It was never used or mentioned in the Florida trial.
    The press keeps using that it was so much everyone believes the fake presses story. Again it was never a part of the Zimmerman defense. It was simply a kid beating up an older man. Who shot when in fear of his life.
    Dammit Im a 65 year old handicapped person. Who cant physically fight my way out of a paper bag and that’s one, if not the main reason I carry a gun 20/7/7 days a week.
    Including every waking hour at home.

25. This will continue to be a contentious issue until we address the root problem: the disproportionate criminality of blacks.
    According to FBI/DOJ stats, blacks are six times more likely than non-blacks to commit murder. This is staggering when you consider that despite being 13% of the population, they make up 51% of the total number of murders.
    Blacks are also the attackers 85% of the time when it comes to black/white interactions.
    These are the realities our police and citizenry face everyday, hurt feelings or not- given the truth, it only makes sense to carry, especially in areas with a great concentration of blacks.

    • Actually only 3%. Black males aged 17-34 commit those murders and they are only about 3% of the population. Usually if such a small number is responsible for a large problem things get DONE. But in post-Obama America it is going to take awhile.

26. https://wqad.com/2018/06/26/galva-shooting-victim-xavier-hartman-previously-convicted-of-mob-action-in-assault-case/

    the 19-year-old who was shot and killed following a single-car accident in rural Henry County on June 19 – had previously been convicted of “mob action” from an incident in which he and three other suspects battered another teen.

    According to Galva police, Hartman was one of four individuals arrested in June 2017 for the attack which required the assault victim to receive medical treatment. The initial charge was a Class 4 felony. It was later reduced to a Class A misdemeanor, for which Hartman was sentenced to two-years probation, meaning Hartman was currently on probation when the June 19 accident occurred. This information can be found as public record, here.

    According to the Henry County Sheriff’s Department, there was an altercation between Hartman and 58-year-old Jim Love, who is currently in jail and charged with first degree murder for shooting Hartman in the leg, killing him. Love also sustained head injuries in the altercation, according to the sheriff’s department report.

    In addition to Hartman’s June 2017 arrest, court records show his mother, Melissa Kelly, filed an emergency order of protection against him on January 16, 2018. That order was subsequently vacated on February 27, 2018.

27. The whole problem with the Zimmerman case was that the media was cherry picking the facts, making Trayvon look angelic and tired to make a “White” guy the poster child why SYG does not work.

    They left out that a six foot mischief musclar teen tried laid a smack down on the Z-man. Well all know what happened afterwards.

28. Back in college we had a friend who drank too much. He crashed a car in a single car accident just like this thug. He beat on 5 cops until they “subdued” him with more than harsh words but lucky for him, small town cops with just their fists and nightsticks. He told us that the cops showed him around their locker room after he sobered up with their faces all bloodied and hands in bandages because he didn’t believe what he had done and was yelling about police brutality. At that point he was pissed but understood why he got what he got. My assumption is that the young choir boy was in a similarly intoxicated condition, except it was not 5 cops with billy clubs, just one scared shitless guy out in the middle of the night in the country. Unfortunately for the “youth” with the record for violence, the guy was armed, as, I would expect, most people out in the country would be in similar circumstances. Regarding the prosecutor, or is that persecutor, when the grand jury refuses to indict, and you go for it anyway, you don’t get to be state’s attorney after the next election. You get fired.

29. Hartman was returning from fishing, of which he posted a snap chat of himself. On the way home, he runs his black pickup into a ditch along the road. The pickup is on its side. Love lives 300 yards down the road. He hears the crash, grabs his gun, and heads on down the road.
    Somehow the two get into some kind of confrontation. Did Hartman see a strange man walking toward him with a gun, panic, and tried to defend himself? Did Love politely ask if he could help, was attacked unprovoked, and shoot to defend himself?
    We don’t know. But by all means, assume guilt or innocence because you have a dog in the 2A fight. That’s how Justice is carried out.
    /Sarc off

30. I remember when all the clowns here torched this guy when the story broke.

    I also remember me saying, let’s give this guy a trial before we convict him.

31. Want too be bad guys are dead, and parents want to get rich of somebody so they would sue their own mothers for a settlement! Nincompoop prosecuter want to feather his cap even if it’s convicting an innocent man all for his personnel glory! hope he looses his job and pension, gets investigated for being a corrupt lawyer etc.

    • Exactly right. Most prosecutors will do anything to make themselves look good and this includes getting a conviction against an innocent man…. especially a white innocent man.

32. I have no opinion on the case until the facts are revealed. However, one thing is for certain; it’s very clear that this DA is trying to pave his way to higher office. It’s just too bad that this guy’s life might be ruined because of it.

33. Really interested in the details of this one. Hard to understand what’s going on. The only thing I can figure is the kid was on probation already and was under the influence of something when he wrecked. Still though, makes more sense (which is really none at all) to flee the accident, not jump on some random who showed up to investigate. If that is indeed what happened, I could see the only logical thing is that Love insisted the kid not leave until the cops and medics showed up, and that was not kosher due to probie status.

    Of course it’s all conjecture, but it’s about all I got to make sense of it based on the very little out there so far.

34. The article is TOTALLY devoid of the actual facts involved in this incident so it is simply not possible to even SPECULATE about whether or not this shooting was justifiable or if it was a crime. However the sad reality in modern America is that the “STATE” and those employed by the “STATE” absolutely HATE IT when mere mundane citizens act in self defense. Doing so lessens our dependence on them and thus diminishes their power. This is why regardless of the actual facts involved persecution by the DA is more often than not the states default response to any and all defensive gun uses that are not totally and completely legal beyond anyone’s doubt. The political agenda and aspirations of the DA/Prosecution, LEO and usually the local politicians have a far greater impact on whether or not charges are filed than the facts of the issue do.

35. White people need to remember, this could be you. The press and the politicians are bent on bringing down the white race. Get Carry insurance and never go anywhere without a gun. Use it skillfully when the need arises.

36. Zimmerman SWATTED Martin, they never met before that tragic night.
    “Up to no good, on drugs or something…. always get away…”

    Now if the kid was seen climbing out a window or the front door with a 40″ tv in his hands, that is different.

    If he did not have that handgun he never would have gotten out of that truck.

    If he was beaten so badly he thought he was going to die from head impacts on concrete, why turn down medical care? “Medical care is expensive” he said on video to police.
    The fact is medical records would be used in court AGAINST Zimmerman, he had no serious injuries, otherwise why risk going to bed that night and never waking up again from a cranial bleeder(s)???

    They never should have charge him with murder but manslaughter instead.

37. Perhaps if young black males would stop resorting to violence any time they get upset or insulted, they wouldn’t be shot quite so often.

38. Why do they keep showing pictures of Trayvon Martin when he was a young kid. They should show his photo of what he looked liked when he died – a drugged up teenage thug. His mother kicked him out of the house because she could not control him. That is why he was living with his father. They should also show Zimmerman’s face when he was in the police station after the shooting. He was all busted up from getting his head bashed into the sidewalk.

39. So is the one drop rule effects everybody as per Jim Crow, a law brought on by Democraps, when does the Democraps stop this racism?????
    This case is about pure self defense. The prosecutor that has political ambitions should be disbarred for taking this to the Grand Jury twice. The Grand Jury is so lopsided that the Supreme Court has said that a prosecutor could indite a ham sandwich in a Grand Jury.
    This poor man deserves to be aquited and I pray he is able to geyt the money back it takes to defend himself from this illegal prosecution…..

40. Travon Martin was bashing Zimmermans head into a concrete sidewalk he was not an innocent teenager. I would like to know more details about this case before I make a decision about who was right or wrong. If they can prove that it was or wasn’t self defence then they can proceed. This is not about black or white it’s about self defence

41. How come the prosecutor is hot to go where the grand jury wasn’t? Might he be up for re-election?

42. Any updates?

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