(courtesy David Horsey, latimetimes.com)

“Given that some sort of horrific, headline-grabbing school shooting now occurs in the United States at a rate of once a week, it’s hard to argue against the idea that gun violence is as much a national pastime as baseball,” cartoonist David Horsey writes in an latimes.com rant accompanying the image above. “And, unlike baseball, the season never ends . . . The United States is the only advanced, industrialized country with this problem. In less-developed regions there are countries where gun violence is rampant – places like Somalia and the Central African Republic, but those are anarchic places where no effective governmental authority exists. In America, we have a government that some people believe is too big and overbearing, yet when it comes to guns, we might as well have no government at all.” Wait. Isn’t that exactly what the Second Amendment says? So I guess we agree. [h/t Jon Y.]

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110 COMMENTS

  1. There’s a difference between “headline-grabbing” and making up headlines to grab. But Horsey wouldn’t recognize that.

  2. This degradation of the US as a nation-state is more like the slow creep of debauchery before Carthage’s fall or the decadence and ignorance of Constantinpole’s hoi polloi to the Latin Quarter or the IVth Crusade at the door rather than akin to the Roman Empire’s.

    • Yep; we are seeing in real time what caused the collapse of pretty much all civilizations. We are seeing what caused the Dark Ages.

      Just as we as a nation beat the odds in becoming a nation; we might be able to beat the historical odds and not have a total collapse that would lead to a dark Age that lasts for a thousand years.

      • If you are arming yourself to prepare to take down a democratically elected government, then you aren’t really a patriot.

        • The word democracy was not used in the declaration of independence or the constitution once. The founders viewed democracy as a form of mob rule. We are not a democracy; we are a republic. If the democratically elected government imposes tyranny (mob rule) by ignoring or eviscerating the constitution, it is no different to the oppressed than if a king were instated.

          Another thing to note, most of the colonists did not support the revolution. I guess George Washington wasn’t a “true patriot” because he didn’t follow the masses.

        • not one person said anything about arming up and taking a government down. where did you get that idea or are u just flaming?

        • Geez Dave!; did I make any suggestion in my post that I was preparing to “take down” my government? I was making the statement as to the collapse of society due to historic forces. Maybe you would like to comment on that.

  3. “but those are anarchic places where no effective governmental authority exists”

    Funny, under President Zero and his disdain for the rule of law if he doesn’t like the law, there’s really not that much difference other than we have skyscrapers and more iPads.

  4. Weekdays sad is this douche is so ignorant of guns. It’s hard not to laugh at the poor Bastard.

  5. Let’s just change the dude in the crown to the boko harum leader, or the latest Kenyan massacre leader…

    • No kidding.

      The only stuff my ARs eat are .223, 5.56, 6.8, 300 BLK, and .50 Beowulf. None of my personal ARs have hurt anyone but I do believe that they are wonderful protections for enemies both foreign and domestic. Self defense is one of those rights that you hope you will never have to use, but you will be glad for your life if you ever need it. And if you decide to toss all of your firearms, then your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones becomes very limited. So much so that tyrants, dictators and terrorists have slaughtered disarmed citizens throughout human history.

      • I’ve got some M1’s in the safe that very well may have hurt someone and I intend to buy more from the government through the CMP.

      • Robert is satirizing the commentator’s extreme statements by using the eating babies meme in his (TTAG) headline.

    • A common misbelief. Human is much more like pork. The stone-age islanders in the S Pacific called human “long pig” because other than handling the long annimal parts different from a pig anatomy, human is prepared and eats just like pork.
      It’s suggested that a sidewise preventative against canibalism among the wandering tribes lost in the desert for 40 years (which never happened), was the basis for the intolerance “I am that I am” has against pork.

  7. The more the anti’s emotional agenda loses traction, the more desperate their methods. Fabricated stats, off the wall cartoons and editorials in lib rags, etc,… et al,…Corrupted MSM.,,, All part of the plan,

    • The grabber’s antics are a rare glimpse into what happens when moral panic loses political traction. It’s quite a sight.

    • The shallower the belief system the more desperately and violently it’s adherent’s ‘defend’ it for their very emotional survival is at stake, such followers being of a type that make Propagandists weep for joy
      This is why all presidential assassins and mass shooters are democrat/socialists/commies

  8. Would anyone be willing to get behind a kickstarter to make hats like that to piss this horsey guy off?

  9. Two things 1. The cartoonist doesn’t know how to draw a EBR and 2. He doesn’t realize that the 2A helps allow him to spout such idiotic nonsense.

  10. I propose a Kickstarter campaign to fund printing and delivering hard copies of every gun control law in the US and delivering them in person to every “journalist” [sarcastic quotation marks] that claims that there are no guns laws / restrictions in the US.

    • Might as well burn the trees where they stand using the ink as an accelerant… it would do more good than sending to these clowns.

      • Well, each time you could also photograph it / record a video of it and post it online in various places. Caption: “[Insert name here] is a journalist at the NY Times and said that there are no gun laws in the US. Here’s us using two wheel barrows to deliver him a copy of every gun control law in the US!”

    • Yes, but no one person has the time or energy to work on all those problems. I like guns, so I’ll concentrate my efforts on the problem of excessive gun-control. Fortunately, there are other people who are concentrating on those other problems too.

    • Is there still a rope factory in operation in the US because we will need miles of it to cure our problems

  12. Horsey is a wacko extremist flame troll and his schtick is to stereotype and inflame. Guess we cant all be suave latte sipping elitist liberals like him, casting down upon others from ivory towers.

    • I was thinking that maybe the lefties could get into the design of new rifles. That one is definitely nothing I have seen. Looks like an AR47. Looks like a 3 1/2″ eject port for shotgun shells but that short magazine looks like a .22LR box mag. That is not the “scary” stock either.
      Just figured it out…It is not a ghost gun…It is a Frankenstein gun.

  14. Quite an interesting rifle statue. One thing gun grabbers have in common is they seem to know absolutely nothing about firearms in general except that they go bang.

  17. Mexico, Russia and Brazil have governments and some darn pretty common sense gun laws. I don’t have time to google it now, but I assume they therefore have very low murder rates too.

    • Mexico also “respects the 2nd amendment”, they have a provision modeled after it in their Constitution….they just “updated” it for modern “common sense

      And now they have a single gun store, run by the military (last private gunstore closed in 1995 after 3 decades of gradual pressure from the government against them).

      current “right to keep arms” in Mexico: The inhabitants of the United Mexican States have the right keep to arms in their homes, for security and legitimate defense, with the exception of those prohibited by federal law and those reserved for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, Air Force and National Guard. Federal law will determine the cases, conditions, requirements, and places in which the carrying of arms will be authorized to the inhabitants.

      And the laws are even more restrictive than that in effect…after all, in principle there could be a private gun store…there just isn’t anymore

  18. And these are the “Educated Elite” that are convinced in their ivory tower minds that they are the tolerant, inclusive, multiculturalists that have the answers to all of societies problems; and that gun owners are the uneducated; superstitious, bitter bible clinging red-necks that show a butt crack when they bend down to get another Budweiser from their toilet bowl cooler.

    And yet to me; they are the ignorant; the intolerant, the bigoted and the hateful. That they are delusional and in denial; superstitious and immature in holding to a belief that a sign with a picture of a gun with a circle and slash will have a magical ability to keep them safe from a mad man with a gun.

    But the scariest thing is not that are people are out there that believe this; it is that there is enough “common people” at our level that listen to them as “The Authority”; that there is enough “common People” to vote them into power, to allow these “elites” to make the laws that control our lives at every step.

    How did we the people let it get to this point that we are allowing people like this to have the power to destroy our lives and all the freedoms that we as a country and a people hold dear?

      • I think Jus Bill; this Nanny State and looking to big government for all the answers started much later in the late eighteen hundreds. The creation of the Fed and the control of our money supply by a central controlling body in 1910 was a big move towards that Nanny State. Roosevelt was the next big move in government centralization.

    • America is becoming an Idiocracy. We haven’t started watering our crops with sports drinks yet, but…

  20. Look! An idea we can latch onto and do “something” about! Sure, nothing that really changes the real issues of mental illness or the criminal element and the factors that contribute to each, but those are HARD to deal with. Pointing at guns and shouting “THOSE KILL PEOPLE, MAKE THEM GO AWAY!” gives us something EASY to do. It is simple: people making bad choices through ill minds or ill intent will find means. I am not a criminal. I am not an enemy of the state. I want to defend myself and my family, and I REFUSE TO ALLOW THAT TO BE TAKEN FROM ME. It is not morally preferable that I cannot defend myself because Johnny Gangbanger shot a rival. Don’t take my freedom because someone’s kid fell through the cracks of the system, the community, and their family and saw shooting up his fellow students as a fine idea. EVERY mass shooter was stopped by an armed citizen. They are called police officers.

  21. Everyone knows the best Soylent Green is made from children. Duh.

    Gun owners: people liberals can hate guilt free. Apparently descrimination is ok when it is approved descrimination.

  22. Yeah – a scope on the handguard. That is a really great place for a mount. Anyways, I would expect those who don’t want to understand the people of the gun to also not understand guns.

  23. I might be getting the wrong take-away from this but…
    That drawing makes me want to try to make a modern version of Col. Coopers scout rifle

  24. “The United States is the only advanced, industrialized country with this problem.”

    I keep hearing this stated as an argument, and I keep feeling bad for Brazil that their standing in the world was downgraded simply to try and make a political point.

    Or is it that their violent crimes involving firearms are discounted because the country actually has rather strict gun control laws?

  25. And I remember when Horsey used to stick to a lot of local politics and was actually fun to see most of the time in the Seattle Times. Decades ago. Guess latte-steaming Seattle just isn’t progressive enough for him. Scares me to think how much the LA Times paid him to leave Seattle and spout off the amazing stream of extremism that has become his hallmark as of late.

    He’s just confused. With firearms violence, firearms homicides, all continuing their decades-long drop, shouldn’t he have a “media lies” altar? After all, as more people are carrying more guns more places, fewer and fewer people are dying from guns.

    America’s gun owners aren’t sacrificing children. Agenda-driven editorialists like Horsey are sacrificing the truth in the name of corporate media profits.

  26. Ok, I squandered a gratuitous click to read the column. All the way through, as hard as that was. It was to me a masterpiece of half-truths and obfuscation. His conclusion begins with “The United States is the only advanced, industrialized country with this problem.” Sorry, Bubba, that’s a flat-out lie.

    Through the suppressed anger at being portrayed as a psychotic murderer, I truly feel sorry that I wasted my time and electricity by reading that trash. If that’s what passes for sophisticated LA intellectualism, we as a nation are in serious trouble. That ‘article” could have been written by a high school Freshman for English class, as an example of what used to be called “Yellow Dog Journalism.”

  28. “Given that some sort of horrific, headline-grabbing school shooting now occurs in the United States at a rate of once a week”

    But it is not a given. This is the sort of debate judo that is endemic to people who do not have a real argument. Statement presented as fact, then overbearing conclusion. Shout down anyone who calls you out on unsubstantiated ‘fact’. Call them names, ridicule them. POTG are letting anti’s frame the question. How about “Given: Treasonous power mad sociopaths of all stripes were unelected in a wave of derisive laughter when reasonable people understood that all they (the power mad sociopaths) wanted was control of others” Just as untrue. It is desirable to make ones’ opponent angry, so that they act in ways that are to your benefit. Don’t let them make you angry and play into their hands. Pick them apart. “Given” bah! Manson had a bunch of givens, within them he was internally logical. “Given”…

    • That debate judo only works on honest people, which is why it works on pro gun folks. We honestly and earnestly try to answer point for point everything that an anti gun person says or asks. Unfortunately their questions and statements are all based on false premises that are taken for granted and as such our replies are then framed within the context of that false premise. Do we still hit our wives? All debates on gun control in this country have been conducted on that level whether we’ve caught it or not. Don’t be afraid to break out of the framing that you’ve been given.

      “Look, none of that matters, the basic facts are that guns in the US save more lives than they take. Face it, guns are a net benefit in our society.”

      “You think 26 murdered children is a net benefit?!”

      “That is an extremely dishonest thing for you to say. Who are you to trade those 26 children for 28 murders elsewhere, increased home invasion robberies, rapes, and an overall higher murder rate?”

      “I just want America to be safer-”

      “So do I, and the facts are very clear that the best way to do that is to allow citizens to own guns if they feel it necessary. Resisting attacks with a firearm leaves people uninjured more often than not resisting.”

      “We need common sense legislation to keep guns out of the hands of criminals!”

      “Keeping guns away from criminals is certainly a lofty goal, however that has failed in the UK, Australia, Denmark (thank you to the TTAG reader who enlightened us as to his plight there), etc… In all of those places with strict gun control, criminals use guns frequently-”

      “They all have lower gun violence rates than the US-”

      “Yes, but higher rates than they had before their gun control laws. Those laws have made things worse there and they will make things worse here.”

      “YOU JUST WON’T LISTEN!!!!!!!!11!one!1!!!!ONE!!!!~!”

      “True, but everyone who will read your facebook post, or who was in earshot around us in this restaurant saw you come off as a lunatic while I calmly refuted your every sentence.”

      Ok, you don’t have to say that last bit. I started out just doing a thing there and it kind of grew on it’s own.

      My point is that someone who is truly interested in the truth behind the effects of guns on a society will listen to what you say and may debate with you. You won’t have a conversation with someone like this. It’s very unlikely at least. Someone with an agenda will keep steering the conversation back into a framework based on anti gun scripture, keep steering it back into your framework. They will get angry and inadvertently demonstrate for everyone around the difference between the two mindsets.

      That’s the hope anyway.

  30. Most of the gun grabbing crowd doesn’t seem to value the life of unborn children so it doesn’t seem like they would even care if gun owners eat babies.

    • LOL. You gave me an idea for a killer retort to that: “We don’t eat babies, we eat fetuses. I think it’s hypocritical of you to care about that only when gun owners are involved.”

  31. You know, maybe we should stop caring about what those other countries, the ones that already despise us, think about us. Let them think what they want! This picture obviously illustrates that there is a problem with America when compared to the world —- again.

    Someone should tell Obama, that I’m not willing to bend over and kiss their ass for him!!!

  32. “His (David Horsey’s) editorial position is anchored firmly on the left, and he eschews any criticism of the Obama administration. He is highly critical of Christians, Republicans, and the Tea Party. He is strongly supportive of the LGBTQ community.”

    No suprises. ‘Nuff said.

  33. The sacrificial altar at NRA HQ looks nothing like that. The braziers are much bigger and there is a giant bas relief of Wayne LaPierre’s face, his open mouth a blazing furnace.

    No children or peace officers are harmed, the faithful just feed Wayne six hundred and sixty six tame and lovable trophy grade animals every full moon.

  34. Again, we have someone who hates guns distorting the facts beyond belief. We might as well have no government is an uneducated thing to say. I’ve stood next to men and women who have been turned away from purchasing weapons at shops. That is because of the government regulations. The government is responsible for fast and furious. They have put rifles in the hands of the bad guys. I have not.

    • It’s not guns they hate. It’s us they hate. They are not misinformed. They just don’t care. The NRA is just a proxy for, as they see it, all of us murderous, homophobic, dumb, fat, white, racist, livestock humpers who live in flyover country.

      • Agreed. you’ll notice that the rich anti-gunners like Bloomberg, Rosie, Obama all have ARMED security. We’re just wacko’s who aren’t important enough to be able to defend ourselves..according to them.

        Funny thing is…the more they rant and rave..the more we pull together.

  35. Gun-free inner cities and other liberal strong holds are reaping the fruit of the left’s social engineering (think LBJ’s Great Society)–poverty has not been eliminated, it has produced racial ill-will from the entitlement class.

    The sad things — the left is philosophically blind to the utter distaster of their policies and any policy or practice that would begin to move these areas back toward civil society.

    • You wrote, “…poverty has not been eliminated…”
      That’s just one more lie by our government.

      Poverty in America has been almost completely eliminated for several decades now. However, the government keeps changing the definition of ‘poverty’. How many people ‘living in poverty’ have all the food they need, a good roof over their heads, plenty of furniture in every room, a color TV with HD and DVD, a nice cell phone, etc., etc.? ALMOST ALL OF THEM! That’s not poverty! That’s able-bodied people who are being paid to do nothing, but vote for the kind of government that will give them even more.

      Take a trip to a country without welfare, and you will see what poverty really looks like. I live in Nicaragua, and my next door neighbor has to provide for his family with an income of less than $300 a month ($3600 a year). Many people here are forced to live on much less than that.

      Most Americans have no idea what real poverty is like. It isn’t a life one would choose to live in; definitely not the kind of life most American welfare recipients have chosen.

      • It’s not third world “poverty”, to be sure. But it is a enduring goal of the social enginees. It if solved, what use do we have for them? There may be pockets of people truly starving, but this is due to ignorance of the availability of the services that exist in this country.

        I was thinking also of “poverty of the mind” / “poverty of opportunity”. With the destruction of education and the establishment of government run indoctrination centers (which no ghetto youth will remain in long for numerous reasons), this too has doomed many to remain in the condition government wants them to remain — effective slaves, waiting for the next handout/payoff.

        • With all due respect, BULLSH1T. May I direct your attention to Appalachia? The only people in those states with money are the politicians and the meth cookers.

  36. Maybe the next thing is to have us all wear a little yellow cloth “G” pinned to our outer clothing, you know, like the little stars Jews had to wear a while back. Then all the liberals could tell who are the firearm owners are, and react accordingly. (There needs to be a designated sarcasm font.)

    • Can’t I just keep a Glock on my hip, openly displayed? That should tell all and sundry that I am a gun owner, and that I will not be subjugated. Never Again, as Grammy says.

  37. I keep giving myself pep talks, promising to not get all agitated over crap like this. It’s damn hard, though. These people are so willfully uninformed it just breaks your heart, because there’s also the knowledge that half the population feels the same. It’s just dismal.

    • I think they make clocks. The old style, that you have to read with hands, or something.

  39. “In America, we have a government that some people believe is too big and overbearing, yet when it comes to guns, we might as well have no government at all.”

    It’s not that it’s too big and overbearing, it’s also incompetent and corrupt — I don’t believe for a second that NICS keeps guns away from criminals, thousands of miles of porous border where people and black market goods slip across daily, and government hypocrites like Leland Yee. Shall we keep going?

    http://demotivators.despair.com/demotivational/stupiditydemotivator.jpg

  41. These countries are the way they are because the citizens are not allowed to own firearms. And by the way, I don’t eat babies, their little bones get stuck in my throat.

  42. “… but those are anarchic places where no effective governmental authority exists.”

    You know, like Chicago.

  43. What makes this cartoon ridiculous to me is that David Horsey has absolutely no idea what an ar-15 even looks like. What is going on with the shotgun magazine tube/garand style gas tube under the barrel? How exactly does that VFG attach to the forend? Last but not least, I bet the eye relief on that scope is pretty great. Very reminiscent of ISIS man yesterday.

  44. The “gun culture”, as mainstream media calls it, will be the next domestic terrorist villain. If you don’t see how gun(legal) owners are being culturally marginalized and already criminalized, then you ain’t paying attention.

  47. common theme here, many posts reflect a position that believes the mainstream media is a legitimate information venue. Anyone who doesn’t see the mainstream media for the propaganda machine that it is has already lost.

  48. LOL! The picture doesn’t even portray what they consider an “assault rifle”. BRB no magazine, fixed stock, lack of muzzle device. And who the FK mounts their optic on the barrel? What, exactly, is this monstrosity? I guess you could call it an AKARsteyer? But where does the ammo go?

    The illustrator really didn’t think this through, although I have a feeling they rarely think anything through.

    • Ammo goes in the shotgun/lever style magazine tube, everyone knows that is how an ar-15 works.

  50. And in another TTAG posting, we have someone wagging his finger at us, telling us to be “civil” to these people.

    Riiiight.

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