Freedom means being free from “gun violence”? The only way to remove the threat of firearms-related crime would be to remove all the criminals. And crazies. And the potential criminals and crazies (as defined by anti-gunners, of course). The idea that government could restrict guns to the point where we’d be free from the threat of firearms-related crime and assault is utopianism at its finest. Or worst. Yeah, let’s go with worst . . .
‘Cause the kind of police state a national “gun-free zone” would require would resemble [invoke Godwin’s Law here]. Anyway, even as you recognize your firearms freedom on the Fourth, never forget that there are those who would gladly take it from you in the name of . . . wait for it . . . freedom.
How about until we live in a world with unlimited resources and no bad outcomes for anything we can never be free. There, they always have something to legislate about.
Admittedly, some folks do live with a constant threat of gun violence. Most people don’t. My suggestion would be to move somewhere without such a threat. There’s your freedom.
“Admittedly, some folks do live with a constant threat of gun violence. Most people don’t. My suggestion would be to” get a gun, and learn how to use it. Fight back! First rule of a gun fight is to have a gun. FIFY.
Freedom from want.
Freedom from fear.
Freedom from freedom.
We have nothing to fear, but for freedom.
Freedom is slavery.
Indeed.
She went Full Orwell. You never go Full Orwell.
It’s hard not to go Full Orwell when you’ve already gone Full Huxley…
When you are extolling the virtues of freedom from,
instead of freedom to, you have gone full Atwood.
I believe we have a dystopian triple crown winner.
We can go full Plato.. This also tells the utopianist how to find true peace from violence.
“Only the dead have seen the end of war”.
Nice Clerks reference!
I can see how Clerks could also work; but in this case, it was a reference to Tropic Thunder.
It was a 14 year $20K journey to US citizenship for me and it was all for firearms freedom and it was worth every penny. So Happy Independence day TTAG.
And a Happy Independence day in return for you, Ross.
Curious, where are you from and could you break down that 20 thou as to fees, lawyers, whatever?
We went though three visas before the green card so every time we got a new visa we had to go back to the other side of the word to get it added to our passports. Yes it was a vacation but had to be scheduled three months in advance all around the interview with immigration and none of the costs/fees could be written off to taxes. Legal fees (immigration lawyer and visa costs) + another $2200. to sit the citizenship exam.
Thanks for doing it the right way.
Glad you have made it, Ross.
May you celebrate many more Independence days.
Interestingly, of the immigrants I know that made it here, they seem to value this country more than most of those that were born here.
One guy in particular escaped Slovakia before the Iron Curtain fell.
Taxes, yeah, sorry about that part man… Hopefully the good parts are still good enough.
Welcome! Glad to have you. Respect for doing it right. My wife did too and it’s not an easy road.
That’s awesome! Happy 4th, Brother.
Welcome home!
Thank you.
I’m proud that you are an American.
Interesting that this gentleman wasn’t one of those rapists that Donald Trump whined about. Rather he seems to be a potential product of the Texas (limited) educational system for immigrants that even Rick Perry didn’t want to stop funding.
How many ammosexuals here could afford $20grand to move to another nation? I am thinking very, very few. So while this guy “did it right” and is probably a good guy he is also a person of privilege. Ammosexuals tend to kick most working poor and middle class to the curb.
Dude,
Happy Independence Day, it’s due to the sacrifice made by countless others that have their lives that you have free speech to spew your crap, never forget this.
god. So the people of tolerance, multiculturalism, and the acceptance of other people’s perspective as equally valid, especially if they are different than their own.
You are obviously not of these people. So what brand of hate, intolerance, bigotry and close mindedness do you see yourself?
Glad to have you.
Welcome, brother.
Glad you made it. Glad you are here.
We aren’t free until we’re free from people who want to eliminate civil rights. Substitute “Jew”, “Black”, “Hispanic”, “Woman”, “Catholic” for the word gun in any anti gun propaganda and you’ll see who these people really are and what they want to do.
The falacy of the highest order is anti gunners believing they can effect change through words, imagery and carrying poster boards. Not one engages in debate nor has courage to come and take my arms.
None will step in the arena.
They live in a dream world where passing laws against guns or posting Gun Free Zone signs resolves the problem. If they make guns illegal of course we will all line up to turn them in, isn’t that what laws do?
They cannot admit to themselves, even for a minute, that to get the guns from good guys they will need lots of bad guys with guns to do (attempt) the job. I do not think they would actually like to see the results of their Utopian dreams at that point.
Most gun owners I know have drawn the line at the 2nd amendment. They will not turn in their guns, and they wont let anyone take them without a fight. It is amazing that these leftists cannot comprehend that.
Antis will not get bad men to collect our arms. They will corrupt good men, threaten their job, leverage their families to infringe law abiding citizen rights to lawful self protection.
Isn’t a “viol” a larger violin? 8>) (What a bunch of maroons.)
Oh, and WE”LL be free when people who live is Neverland stop blaming PotG for things that we don’t do!
Gun violence is violence. It comes at the hands of the depraved, and evil.
So in order to be free from violence one must defeat the criminally depraved, defeat evil.
Rather than rise up with their own hands, to turn plowshares into swords, and smite the evil upon us, no.
They will demand from the all seeing government to legislate. And legislate they shall. The sheep shall cheer, as their liberty evaporates from the consciousness. They will rejoice in their all knowing government will now continue the illusion of the womb to the grave, never learning.
The very government which they themselves bestowed all power had made a pact with evil. Behind the curtain of their veiled utopian existence resides the truth.
They have surrendered themselves to a dystopia.
~ Daniel
“They have surrendered themselves to a dystopia.”
So true.
I’d prefer it was left in literature and movie theaters.
Then again, a Progressive ‘Hunger Games’ would be entertaining…
At least we’d find out if it were possible to whine or to shame someone to death.
If these morons are suffering from a “constant threat of gun violence,” then they need to get their local police department involved and find a new pace to live.
Oh, wait… Dramatized and free of all traces of common sense. Yup, this smells like typical liberal drivel.
So why don’t they just stop talking sht and come take em….lets get it on….rather do this when I’m 50 instead of 70…
I don’t cling to my arms, I cling to the remaining freedom I have even if I have to crawl to preserve them.
We aren’t FREE until we live free from the constant b.s. from statists and control-freak bureaucrats that want to command & rule every aspect of everyone’s lives, as long as such rules don’t apply to them of course.
FIFY.
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin
The place they want already exists, its called prison. Free health care, housing and food. The best part is only the state has guns so you know you’ll be safe.
North Korea would be a better analogy.
Pretty sure the only ‘true’ freedom, is the freedom from everything (death, or Nirvana/enlightenment if you’re a Buddhist, I guess)
You’d think that these “Women Against [blank]” groups would be a good source for a pearl-farm.
I find them helpful. Dating a girl and you find out she’s a member of one of these psycho groups?
Time saved!
Do you hit it at least once if they’re hot?
These moms watch enough Sesame Street and they start idolizing it and thinking its a real place. Then demanding policy to follow.
As a rule these groups prove that the founders got it right when they left out women’s suffrage.
I call BS on your statement!
Where is your proof that none of the characters on Sesame Street are carrying concealed?
Cause Sesame Street is supposed to be somewhere in Manhattan.
And NOBODY in Manhattan carries a concealed pistol, do they?
I’d say it’s unlikely.
At least not legally, and Sesame Street seems to be pretty full of law-abiders.
Ha! I guess “concealed” does mean “concealed!”
Oscar the grouch: rusted snub nosed .38.
Big Bird: suppressed 22lr
Burt/Ernie: matching .44s with ivory handles
Elmo: Desert Eagle .50
The Count: Twin Berettas 9mm with cast silver bullets
Cookie Monster: none (convicted felon)
See http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html
Our gun control friends seem fact challenged. Firearms aren’t even in the top 10 of all US deaths. Drunk driving is a far more serious problem. And heart disease kills 27X more people than firearms. A more effective strategy would be to charge much higher insurance premiums for anyone overweight or with high blood pressure. Also ban anyone with or ‘at risk’ of heart disease from purchasing anything deemed unhealthy.
Unlike the 2nd Amendment, obesity isn’t constitutionally protected. Time to urge our legislators to focus on where the public health problem is – not where it isn’t. Wonder how long they’d remain in office running on a ‘healthy Americans’ platform?
Being obese falls under the 9th. The feds have no legitimate legal authority to mandate process in a market, this is covered by the 10th. Yes I understand that they are doing so illegally, but you can’t reasonably advocate constitutional adherence on one subject while advocating needles expansion of power on another.
Did you know that being obese is saving the planet from ‘global’ WTF? When a person loses weight, that weight is expelled as….ready for this….CO2.
Gun control, seat belts, no more alcohol, butter, salt or sugar… Then we live forever!
What an odd metric for freedom. So we’ll give up our right to bear arms and protect ourselves, our families, loved ones, our nation and soil from criminals and those who would impose tyranny for a false sense of safety and call it “freedom”? I guess it’s all just a feeling. FEEL “safe” and FEEL “free”…
I have to believe these anti-gun groups sit around sipping wine and brainstorming to bring up new catchphrases. Making factual sense is not important. They are 180º out. It is because of firearms we enjoy freedom.
freedom |ˈfrēdəm|
noun
the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.
Without self-preservation against crime, we are restricted, we are not free.
I have to believe these anti-gun groups sit around sipping wine and brainstorming to bring up new catchphrases. Making factual sense is not important.
Sort of like some of the characters in Atlas Shrugged.
‘Power’, bitches. That’s all it is.
You know, I once saw a movie where only the police and the military had guns, but the ordinary people were hardly free from violence. The movie was based on a true story, too. the name of the movie…?
“SCHINDLER’S LIST”
OMG! Godwin’s Law! Godwin’s Law!
A similar movie based on a true story in the same time period about a group of Jews that decided they wouldn’t become victims and took up arms against the nazis and fought back in, Defiance.
Funny how that works, a bit harder to get sent to the gas chamber when you are shooting back.
Dead is dead, however, it just seems better somehow to go down shooting back at the bastards than to just march docilely into the death camps. YMMV
Why settle for movies when you can say Yes to North Korea and Islamic State?
Ah those words, those simple words. …. WHEN THEY PRY THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS !
Careful, LNJK.
They just might take you up on that offer…
When they do, make the price too high. Take as many of the psychopaths with you as you can.
…knee deep in hot brass.
If every one of us got just two of them, 3 out of 4 of us wouldn’t actually have to do anything…
With training from several tours in SE Asia, and numerous other government adventures, I can guarantee very high $$$$$$$$$$$$
MOLIN LABE!
(By the way, can anyone help me with a phonetic pronunciation of that phrase?)
“Molon Labe”
Weasel words. Give up arms? To be “free”? I smell Political Correctness.
Newspeak.
When people substitute the term ‘violence’ for the term ‘gun violence’ you can be sure that they are being intellectually dishonest. Seriously, would you rather be shot to death or hacked to pieces with a machete? Violence is violence. And if you want to be free of the fear of being the victim of violence, the best thing you can do to achieve that is to carry a gun.
I need to be free from “gun violence”….. but I’m ok with ALL the other kinds of violence.
HA
They love pulling the “freedom from” card. The other day I was debating with someone in regards to “freedom” and the more I spoke to them the more I came to the conclusion they were totally coo coo. They wanted freedom from gun violence. They wanted freedom from the presence of guns. I kept trying to explain to them they were asking for freedom from freedom – but they just didn’t get it. Freedom is more options – not less. Freedom is less regulations – not more. These people are afraid of freedom and they don’t want it. They want more government oversight and they want to be “taken care of” by the government and implement more social programs to do so.
Why don’t we all just work for the government? No need for a private sector right? We work for the government and the government provides for all our needs. “From each according to his ability” and all that jazz. …And what political system does that sound like?
Freedom can be given, but Liberty must always be acquired.
I swear someone said something somewhere awhile back about those willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither but I can’t remember… Strange…
”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.”
Attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
I doubt you forgot but felt it important to remind anyone who did.
Watch as all the fascist klan-worshipping gun-nuts get uppity and all holy-than thou bull as usual as they proclaim the heavily debunked myth that more guns equals more crime.
Fact: A gun in the home is more likely to kill you or a loved one than protect you from threats that you gun-nuts cause.
Watch as all the gun-nuts suppress the rights to free speech, the right and freedom to not die and the right to be safe from the tyranny of the NRA and your fuhrer Wayne Adolf LaPierre and the gun manufactures who job is to continue giving infinte access to deadly weapons to ever criminal and psychos for profit not giving a damn no matter how may innocent men, women and children have to die at the hands of NRA sponsored murders.
I wonder why the idea is so offensive to opponents of gun control. Even the 3-day wait is met with vitriol.
Don’t even bother compare other developed and 1st world countries to the US. The shootings in europe was were isolated incident. There have been over 900 shooting in the US over the past seven years that have been classified as mass shootings. You need to wake the fuck up. It’s time to put innocent lives before your need to have a cock replacement. We are the only developed nation in the world that still has this stupid bullshit happening on a regular basis. Did you know there has been 15 ambush shootings on police just this year? Really what is the downside here? We make the streets safer for officers, and daily life safer for civilians. Don’t say it won’t work either, it will. We need a program like Germany’s where it is a much more rigorous process to own a gun. It worked there, it will work here. I don’t want to hear about your bullshit second amendment rights either. You clearly don’t value human life, if you want shit like Charleston to keep happening.
#fulloffail
Willy lambmeat,
Everything about your post was hilarious. Thank you for this morning laugh.
I agree – it is a debunked myth that more guns equals more crime but maybe that is not quite what you meant to say?? I don’t think any of us ever thought more guns = more crime. That’s what you guys argue. Gun’s don’t “cause” crime and guns don’t make people choose to perform criminal activities over a productive and just life.
Depends on where the person lives, what their family safety polices are, etc. They themselves can determine their best course of action as they are aware of their situation. You and I are not. Your unsubstantiated blanket-wide assertion is meaningless against the decision of an informed homeowner or commuter of their own situation.
Furthermore, it is ridiculous anti-freedom talk. It’s hilarious that this post was questioning freedom and you make this assertion. Lambmeat, If I own a motorcycle in my home and I ride on a motorcycle often then I increase my chances of being in a motorcycle accident. Obviously, a man who owns a table saw is at higher risk to cut himself on a table saw than someone who doesn’t own a table saw. Many of us own guns to protect ourselves from outside threats in bad neighborhoods, and many own guns for their recreational activities in addition to self-defense. In response to your “threats that you gun-nuts cause” – it is a ridiculous statement. A thug can be a gun owner, but a gun owner may not necessarily be a thug. But again – that is you guys solution. Bunch all gun owners together in the same boat and try to sink it. I’m sure in 1776 there were people just like you – and that is exactly why the nation implemented the bill of rights – because of people just like you.
Haha – comical. We want nothing more but more freedom and more rights. It is you guys who silence opposition.
If we had the right not to die, then we’d all live forever. Everyone dies – there is no “right” not to die or freedom not to die. In every culture, murder is illegal – It is not enshrined in the bill of rights as a right. It is expressly forbidden. The more you talk – the less you make sense.
More NRA hate – and no logical arguments. Perspective. 346,000,000 guns in the US. 5 homicides per 100,000. You paint a picture of some slaughter when there is none.
Suppose for a moment that guns didn’t exist and people killed each other with knives. Would we restrict 300 million Americans the ability to purchase knives because it was the chosen tool criminals use? Of course not. Because knives have other useful purposes right? Well – news flash – guns do too:
• Protecting your family in emergencies
• Personal safety and self defense
• Preventing and deterring crimes
• Detaining criminals for arrest
• Guarding our national borders
• Preserving our interests abroad
• Helping defend our allies
• Overcoming tyranny
• International trade
• Emergency preparedness
• Commerce and employment
• Historical preservation and study
• Obtaining food by hunting
• Olympic competition
• Collecting
• Sporting pursuits
• Target practice
• Recreational shooting
As detailed above, thugs use guns to murder people. However there are a great deal of other uses for them. When I go to the store and buy some office supplies or kitchenware, I don’t want to wait 3 days for them. The same with firearms (We have to wait a month to a year to get approval for NFA items – which doesn’t even exist in places like Canada/UK – they can just buy them off the shelf).
How many people have to die at one time to make them classified as a “mass shooting?” 1? 2? 3? More? Wouldn’t it be more meaningful to look at overall crime? Also – we are talking about a difference of 4 people per 100,000. Is being raped by a person with STD’s better than taking their life? Shouldn’t we as a people tell criminals that we will not stand for their behavior and will defend ourselves at the cost of their lives? Or should we cower up and let them take whatever they please? Our possessions and belongings? Our money/time? Our retirement? The health of our children and family? Our lives? Which leads us to the next topic – you growing a pair.
You need to wake the fVck up.
It’s time for you to grow a pair and a c0ck and understand that we all die eventually, safety is not superior to freedom, your opinions are not better than ours, and our lives will not be dictated by your opinions.
Murders happen everywhere, globally, all the time. This is not unique to the US – don’t’ be a gullible fool. You seek to displace homicides (including justifiable ones) with other violent crime. That is all it will do:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
So – “believe me.” That is the argument you are making? It will work as detailed in the link above. People are going to kill people by whatever tool they choose to use. But is it better for you to be raped by some criminal rapist with HIV or shoot them in self-defense? Why do you hate the weak, the elderly, and the disabled?
Are we talking about Nazi Germany time frame or present day time frame? Although there isn’t much difference between them even today. What you are saying is you like your opinion, don’t like ours, and want to force yours on us? No thanks.
We don’t value human life? Because we would rather shoot a rapist than accept his AIDS ridden package in our family members? Listen, we are not into your freedom-hating Marxist collectivism. If a person killed someone with a gun, or a knife, or a molotov cocktail, we had nothing to do with it. Why should anyone at all – be hindered in their law abiding and harm-free activities because some guy unaffiliated with them killed someone else with some object – simply because they used the same object? Stop grouping all gun owners with sadistic thugs. Charleston didn’t happen because of a gun. It happened because some intolerant psycho (similar to yourself) wanted to enforce his opinion on others and was lacking in key moral and ethical judgment. The gun made no decision in it, lambmeat.
Your rants are become more and more generalized and repetitive in nature.
Which means likely you’re spending hours a day vomiting your thoughts onto paper beforehand, and then altering them on the fly to mildly fit the context of the thread.
What a sad existence you live. Spending so much effort and time on people who could care less about you, or your thoughts. Sad, indeed.
What they are asking for is freedom from reality.
Dave Kopek wrote an excellent piece on this topic:
http://www.davekopel.com/NRO/2001/A-World-Without-Guns.htm
“Gun Violence”
What a myopic goal and one that is ultimately futile in this day and age. So sorry, but firearms are simply the weapon of choice in modern day civilization. That would be like putting a sign up in the caveman days saying “we should ban rock violence”. Really?
The problem isn’t the rock, it’s the person wielding it. Rocks don’t sprout legs and evil intentions on their own. They are tools and a means of personal defense when a predator wanders too close to home or your loved ones.
No matter which way you slice it, unless you are targetting the source (people with murderous intent), all the anti-gun logic is doing is making it harder for good folks to obtain the tools to defend themselves when the time comes.
If you want to actually affect positive change, then you need broaden your goal. Violence as a behavior is what you should really try to mitigate if you want to correct the behavior at it’s source. But doing so makes it very obvious very quickly that tada, it’s a people problem. It has little to do with the tools at their disposal.
Yes, you can make the argument that guns in the wrong hands increases the lethality of a person’s ill-intended actions, but more laws and legislation focusing on the guns has proven (thus far) to be ineffective to solve the root problem — maladjusted / evil / crazy people. And why hasn’t it worked? Well because the system is flawed — because it’s also run by people.
As always, it’s the human element messing everything up. The vast majority of the “mass shooters” were already in the mental health system, seeking therapy, or their behavior was already suspect to relatives and public (ie. facebook postings). They all pretty much laid out their plans prior to their carrying them out. Yet none of them were stopped beforehand.
We have an identifitcation, detection, and a swift active response problem.
And sorry antis, you just will never win your anti-gun arguments because the facts remain: There are far more DGUs and good people using guns for lawful purposes every day than the murders that occur. And murderders will always be around. So rather than bitch about guns, why don’t you do the responsible thing and put your responsible adult pants on, tool up, and be prepared…
People of this ilk, do not read history, have no conception of freedom or who gave it! The first freedom was freedom of choice given by our creator, don’t believe in a creator ; my guess would be the first ape to Become a member of the nonconformist pack!
Conformism is a form of Slavery, extreme laws of man giving a persona the authority too act like a king { do this, or do that under penalty of severe consequences, depending upon their whim}
Person writing this dogma has no authority or power to do this on their own, so they sell out by currying Favor and selling their souls for comfort and peace of mind! {as long as its your Freedom} and of which it is neither
People of this group have been handed every thing on a platter so they assume that their rights are more important than yours and a piece of paper written a few hundred years ago!
Gun laws are written by self serving politicians who are afraid you might use it on them! why do you think they outlawed Hemp!
Meanwhile we the masses argue Semantics, and I know more than you
instead forming a coalition to argue facts not conjecture!
Can someone please remind the nice ladies at WAGV that Orwell and Huzley were warning to mankind, not a guide on how-to.
We are free because of the democratization of the credible threat of violence.
Again, there is no such thing as “gun violence” please stop condoning its use. Inanimate objects cannot commit acts of violence.
Orwellian new speak, where words are given new meaning, and other words are removed entirely. You live in a state of corporate-statist collusion -a fascist state indeed- and they have you calling it freedom, exactly their goal. The accuracy of any thing is in direct proportion to its inaccuracy at its origin. So say if the founders professed freedom 240 years ago, and gave you an amendable constitution that normalized slavery and caused all of the other injustice we’ve encountered since, you’ve got a pretty inaccurate point of origin. Think about the founders like a sloppy rifle, with crappy ammo and a lousy shooter in terrible weather. On the one hand you could say it’s amazing anything was hit at all, on the other hand what you got is they shot the hostage, and you’re proud of it. Sometimes, most times, it’s better to not fire.
I may get in trouble for this, but I just kind of wondered–is there a group called “Men Against Gun Violence”? Or “Dads Demand Action”? And if not–why not?
Because men only groups would be “misogynistic” and an estiblishment of the male “patriarchy.”
Makes sense, in a politically-correct kind of way…
If political correctness didn’t have double standards, it wouldn’t have standards at all.
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