See that? That’s not a short-barrel shotgun — despite the SBS reference in Black Aces Tactical’s press release (after the jump).. It is what the ATF calls “a firearm.” As such, you can buy Black Aces’ SB-Tactical brace-equipped. 10-round, 12-guage modified Mossberg shotgun without an NFA stamp and take it home. Period. Black Aces’ owner, operator and self-professed stress monster Eric Lamoine will sell it to you, complete with ATF authorization letter, for $1179 to $2000 (fully-equipped). If you want the “ultimate” example . . .
You can fit any of the Black Aces Tactical DT firearms with a SilencerCo Salvo silencer (as above). In that case, yes, you have to get an NFA stamp for the suppressor, with all the paperwork and delay that entails. If you want to launch the gun with the Salvo, you’ll have to remove that cone thing at the tip, but don’t worry: it’s merely an aesthetics affectation.
TTAG’s getting a Black Aces Tactical Firearm for T&E sometime in the next month, along with a bunch of extra mags (bespoke $45 a pop). Watch this space.
——-
ORLANDO, FLORIDA – Black Aces Tactical (BAT), an American manufacturer of exclusive custom shotguns, is proud to announce the release of the brand’s new breacher tip for the patented DT, DTS, and DTRS short barrel shotguns. The breacher tip option will be officially unveiled to the public for the first time at BAT’s booth #619 at the NRA-sponsored Great American Outdoor Show, which runs from Feb. 6-14 in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Riding on the recent success of the company’s groundbreaking short barrel 12-guage featuring an 8.5″ barrel, SIG SB15 brace, 27″ OAL, forward grip, 10-round stick magazine, and optional folding brace, the breacher tips are an important addition to BAT’s non-NFA/non-AOW product line.
“Our customers have mainly asked for three options in our short barrels,” said Eric Lemoine, owner and CEO of BAT. “They want the breacher tip, the ability to install a choke, and the ability to use a suppressor. We’ve accomplished all of these in one sleek, compact package.”
The breacher ends are made of the highest quality steel, and are threaded in a standard Win Choke pattern. This not only means that the breacher can be removed and installed with ease, but that the short barrel DT lineup is suppressor-ready using the Silencerco Salvo 12 adapter (sold separately.)
The DT lineup is the highest quality short barrel available on the market, as it is not cut and welded. Each integral component associated with shortening the barrel is done with billet materials, with tolerances down to 1/1000th of an inch. The barrel clamp features a locking taper design that retains the OEM appearance and OEM takedown screw. The action block is machined on five sides to allow the Black Aces Tactical hand grip to be able to be located left, right or center of the two 45 degree locations.
The addition of the SB15 SIG brace takes the DT Model above and beyond standard AOW 12-gauges. The proper use of the SB15 brace transforms a 12-gauge from wayward and difficult to control to stabilized and precise.
The standard DT Model with fixed SIG brace starts at $1,179 and costs $2,000 fully equipped with every option. The DT models come in a top quality MIL-A-8625 Type 3 hardcoat, and can be upgraded to a variety of Cerakote color options. The Win Choke option adds $175, and can be added to the DT, DTR and DTRS.
The DT product line does not require any stamps, nor are the weapons considered short barreled shotguns under the NFA or AOW. They are classified strictly as a “firearm,” which means a customer can purchase them from the dealer without months of wait time. In fact, the weapons include all associated ATF letters, as well as a copy of 27 cfr 479.11, page 89 outlining the method of obtaining overall length.
Black Aces Tactical custom weapons can be ordered directly from www.blackacestactical.com or by calling 407-919-9783.
They should have made it semiautomatic with a huge drum. I keep waiting for someone to make a shotgun with shell links that automatically drop out when fired.
Making it semiautomatic with a huge drum would get the ATF to declare it a destructive device.
There already are drums for Vepr, and it’s not a DD.
Shut up, build it, and take my money…. 😉
If you want it done right…
Spring-steel linked ammo would go a long way to solving the feeding issue with 12 ga out of a magazine.
I had the most horrific experience with Black Aces Tactical products and subsequent customer support.
While their shotguns look amazing they simply DO NOT FUNCTION. And the warranty work is a sad state of affairs.
The shop won’t take any of their half-baked firearms back, won’t fix them, won’t replace them. Search a bit before spending your money. Every forum out there has some comments from a guy like me who basically threw their money away for a non-working, unreliable slug of metal.
The concept is great. The product is garbage. STAY AWAY.
IM HAVING THE SAME ISSUE,PAID FOR PRODUCT,DEAL NEVER WENT THRU,I NEVER RECEIVED IT, ITS ALMOST 2 MONTHS,AND THEY SIMPLY DONT WANT TO GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK
Very impressive short-barrel shotgun with perfect name A firearm, thanks for sharing.
But can I shoulder it? I’m guessing I’d have to pay $200 to the ATF for the privilege of putting it to my shoulder. Unless, of course, they aren’t looking, when I shoot it.
Is anyone looking? Are you on your own private property? Everyone have their iphones tucked away?
Then do whatever you want.
I still see people at the range shouldering them. They could give two rats butts about the ATF tuling.
Personally, I’m not a fan of the looks of this thing, but more power to you if it does happen to be your bag.
I like…
It’s not a SBS unless you put that arm strap to your shoulder. Then your a felon looking at possible 10 years, because the ATF said so.
BE CAREFUL,THEY DONT DO REFUNDS,ONCE YOU ORDER,GET IT, ITS YOURS,THEY WILL IGNORE YOUR CALLS AND E MAILS. WHICH IS TO BAD,I LIKE THEIR PRODUCTS AND WAS SURPRISED OF HOW THEY ACT.I THOUGHT THEY WERE BETTER THEN THAT
How confident am I that the ATF won’t “Stryker” this on to the DD list?
To be honest I would rather go for a 14 inch mossberg 500 with the birdshead style grip. About half the price and none of the mall ninja ridiculousness.
Ikr thats the build i’m working on now
It scares the “straights”, it’s evil simply by the color, and the adult diapers will be changed by the box load at MDA, etc,…
And,,,,,
Folks will buy it.
Good
Jumping freaking cockroaches, Farrago, can’t you even give one hotlink to the company you are writing about?
Selfish &%^(*&_)(^**)_!!!
Would have to see reliability test before I fork over that much.
It’s a manually-operated slide-action shotgun action; any reliability concerns are likely to be centered around the user short-stroking the action slide, which is a training problem, not a gun problem.
It’s also box-magazine fed. This has proved a point of failure for previous shotgun designs. The force required of the spring to support/lift a full magazine of shotshells can cause feeding issues with the flexible plastic/paper hulls on the straight-walled rimmed shells. Not saying that is specifically an issue with this gun (i have no direct experience), but while the pump/slide action is very reliable (when fed from a tube magazine), that may not be the case when fed from a box mag.
Excellent point.
However, being a manually-operated weapon, it also doesn’t have to have the same magazine spring tension required to lift the shells into feeding position in the short time frame mandated by a semi/full-auto action. So the manufacturer could reduce the spring tension slightly (in theory), making it less likely the shells will deform while in the mag.
Manually-operated actions also have more power available for chambering than the lone action spring provides in autoloading actions. I would think there are MANY slightly deformed shells that would fail to chamber and lock in an auto, that would chamber, lock and fire just fine in a pump gun.
No way that erection building machine is CA legal.
NY legal?
(He ponders sarcastically)
Where are the semiauto bullpup shotguns with drum mags? This shotgun is one step closer to perfection but it sure ain’t it.
Find a comfy seat and then check out the AA-12 on youtube..
I checked out an aa12 at a rental range in Utah. It worked and worked well. But it’s just awkward and clumsy feeling to me.
I did see something, youtube maybe?, about a vehicle remote roof mount with twin aa12’s on it. Now that would be cool.
Holy dystopian future sci-fi flick starring a comely conflicted heroine in search of her place in society, Batman! This thing belongs in Divergent 4/Mocking Fire Jay/Starwars 12.
and Taken 4.
The one with the silencer, totally insane.
That little spike doesn’t shoot out!? Epic Fail
a tiny net shoots out of it!
Best comment in this thread. Salud.
This makes me wonder why no 12ga pistol?? w/ a shoulder thingy?
It’s there, you just can’t see it. It’s a ghost gun.
Huh.
So the fact that an SBS has to have a stock and an AOW has to be under 26″ puts this gun into a weird non-NFA zone? That’s new to me. (I wonder if Illinois and other no-SBS states would agree that this is not a shotgun.)
I wonder if this means you can put a brace on a Mossberg Cruiser or other factory pistol-grip shotgun and then legally cut it down to 26.5 inches?
The answer to your question is yes, because pistol-grip-only “shotguns” sold by manufacturers are not in fact shotguns in the legal sense, they’re “firearms”. The critical point here is that you have to start with a receiver that has NEVER had a stock attached to it; Once a shotgun receiver has had a stock attached, it is then and forever more considered a shotgun and must retain the 18″ barrel length OR be legally converted to a SBS.
If, however, you start with a pistol-grip-only “shotgun”, you can convert it to a shorter than 18″ barrel length, legally, with no involvement of the ATF/NFA, SO LONG as it retains an OAL of 26″ or more. If the resulting firearm is less than 26″ then it falls back under the purview of the NFA as a SBS
What model Mossburg pump shottie has a mag well?
SO… because this doesn’t have a shoulder stock and is longer than 26 inches, it’s not considered an SBS or and AOW? Is this why Black Aces calls it “The Firearm?” Because it doesn’t fit the definition of a shotgun, rifle, or pistol?
After dealing with their crap Mossberg 500 rail system, I will never buy another Black Aces Tactical product ever again.
Has anyone actually bought one of these? I am very interested in picking one up right now but I would like to read some feedback from someone who actually owns one.
Apparently not. So far, everyone with an opinion hates the company, thinks it looks dumb, thinks it costs too much, or whatever. I’m with you. I’d like to hear actual opinions of how this sucker works. Are the mags reliable? Does the forward assist work well? Everyone who has offered an opinion of this so far is comparing it to other firearms.
well, I went ahead and bit the bullet so to speak and ordered one. It should be here within the next 3 weeks or so. When it arrives I plan to put it through its paces and I will post an unbiased review. I have high hopes. I have been able to find a few other small bits of positive feedback but not as much as I was hoping for. Oh well, we shall soon see
I will say that so far Eric at Black Aces has been very easy to work with. He promptly returns my emails and answers my phone calls. He has been very accommodating with the special requests that I have thrown at him. I do not anticipate any problems when the weapon finally arrives.
YOU GOT VERY LUCKY WITH ERIC,I HAVENT BEEN THAT LUCKY,NO REFUND,NO REPLY CALLS OR TEXTS,WITH TIM BEING THE WORST.ONCE YOU GET IT,YOUR ON YOUR OWN,TRUST ME
Make sure you link to your review, Jason. I’m excited to finally see one.
the weapon is actually in route as I type this. Should be able to pick it up May 18th. I’m very excited to see if this thing lives up to all the hype. And to see if it was constructed the way that I ordered it. I will definitely post a review with a link ASAP!
Ok fellas, I picked up my Black Aces DTRS yesterday and aside from a couple of minor hiccups, the weapon looks to be tip-top. Fit and finish are excellent. There were no loose pins or screws in the box like I’ve read about in an earlier post by someone on YouTube. Nor are there any tool marks, rust, or flaws of any kind. The hiccups I mentioned earlier are: Turn around was about 9 weeks and I was told it would be about 3. I did make a special request and asked for it to be shipped with rails installed on the action block instead of the forward grip. It came without the rails. Also I ordered 2 additional five round magazines that were also missing. Now, that being said, I am partially to blame for the longer production time. I changed my mind on the finish and had them nickle plate the weapon in the middle of the build. I’m sure the plating process added weeks. Also my request for the rails is out of line with the way they normally build these guns. And to top it all off, Black Aces moved their production facility during my build so perhaps some of my specifics were lost in the move. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I called Eric about the missing mags and rails it was past closing time for them. He still picked up and assured me he would ship out my missing parts first thing in the morning. The next morning I already had a tracking number in my email before I even got up. (They’re east coast, I’m west coast so he did ship first thing in the am) All companies make mistakes. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. Eric at Black Aces was very quick to offer an apology, not an excuse, and fixed the problem immediately. I will take this beauty out for a test drive very soon and I’ll be back to tell you all how she runs.
Stay tuned. . .
Well guys. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if I’m going to give an impartial review I must remain impartial and tell the truth, and the truth is…
When I said the weapon “looks to be tip-top” I wasn’t lying. It DOES look very nice. But looks aren’t worth much if the weapon won’t cycle. While I am waiting for the rails that I originally ordered to arrive. I decided to go ahead and install the vertical fore grip that came with thr gun. Once I got everything put together I tried to rack the action. It was very difficult. The action was very stiff, sticky, awkward and just generally didn’t want to move freely like you would expect on a shotgun. In addition, the pump release button -or whatever you call that little tab that allows you to pump the action without firing the chambered round is called, was jammed up into the receiver. So the only way to get a live round out of the chamber was to pull the trigger! Then you could drop the mag and eject the spent shell to clear the chamber. -But the gun still looks really good- sigh… The magazine seems to be snug in the mag well and the folding mechanism seems to be pretty sturdy, but the weapon won’t cycle without a fight. I am going to take the gun to a local gun smith and have them build the front end the way a pump shotty should be. I’m sure that when I get it back it’s gonna slide smooth as butter and THEN it will be a really sweet little package, but that’s after another couple of hundred at the gun smith to make it work right. Bottom line, I’m really disappointed with this gun. Eric at Black Aces tells me what I want to hear on the phone, and he was quick to get my parts in the mail to me, but that’s really of little consolation when I’ve spent more than just a few dollars for a gun that doesn’t work.
-but it still looks really good-
After they get done with it at my smith’s shop, I’ll be back to let you know how it handles.
Cheers.
Well folls, here’s the part where I eat a little crow. It seems I may have been a little bit hasty with my last post. I’ll admit rather than keep calm and examine the shotgun rationally and use logic to evaluate the problem with the action, I let my emotions get the best of me. Maybe I got caught up in some of the negative comments that seem to swirl around this gun. Comments made by people who no doubt have never even held one of these weapons in their own hands. I apologize for prematurely jumping on the thumbs down band wagon at the first sign of trouble. What I thought was a deal breaking problem with the action turned out to be an over tightened screw used to mount the rail. It caused the pump release tab to become stuck halfway into the “release” position, thereby preventing the action to slide smoothly. Once this was corrected, the gun ran flawlessly. Not as effortless as a regular Mossy 500 but that’s just because of the forward assist spring. That spring is actually pretty cool. Just rack the action back and let go of the vertical fore grip, and the weapon chambers the next round for you. And let me just say, out of an 8″ 12 guage barrel, there is one hell of a fire ball! This thing is a blast to shoot, pun intended! I’m sure I’m going to have loads of fun with the DTRS for a long time to come. Oh and one more thing. . . this gun still looks really good.
Thumbs up.
A gussied up $400. Mossburg
Cool? Yeah. I give you that. However, that’s where it ends. I have purchased a custom made Black Aces shotgun few months ago. Unfortunately , it had to be send back TWICE in order to even load/fire/eject a single shell. It’s still the most unreliable weapon I own. It was purchased for home protection. It’s serves as the most expensive paper weight you can find. It’s not reliable. Some of the issues: the safety can’t be moved. It simply just stack in the position it’s in. Unless you hit it with a metal plate or a hummer it will not move. Every second (no idea why ) trigger pull will not produce the hit of the primer. When you manage to eject the misfired shell , you will notice that the primer was hit, but not protruded with enough force to ignite. Ejection of the spent (or unfired ) shells is also a problem. You really, I mean REALLY , have to work it in order to get it out. The simple pull of the pump will not do. The magasine. Well simply put it’s not sitting in the receiver too well. It’s very lose and shaky. I have several of them manufactured by the manufacturer (pun intended). All do the same thing. I have tried this so called weapon with different ammo, at different locations and tried anything I could think of. It’s still a junk. Good looking, expensive junk. Spent your money elsewhere. Of course I didn’t buy this model, living in the people’s Republic of New Yorkiztan, but this is my experience and I hape pictures and emails to prove it if you like. And if you are one of the unfortunate who happens to live in Long Island, NY, I even let you try mine before you sent your hard earned overtaxed money to Black Aces.
Black Aces Tactical is just a BAD business. I ordered a shotgun from them on June 9th, its now August 10th.
I supplied my FFL dealer address to them when I ordered. It never showed. when I finally got a UPS tracking number from them, I found it was sent to some pawn shop a few blocks from where I live. Oh and the Pawn dealer dosn’t do FFL transfers. so it got sent back. I get a message some time later that it had arrived back at their shop and would turn it around right away, and in their email to me they had the correct name and address of my FFL dealer. I get a ups message today that it has been delivered, however once again they sent it to a dealer in the area that I do not do business with. When I called the dealer he was a bit upset that he received something he had no knowledge of. So I had to explain the incompetence of the ALL the people at Black Aced Tactical including the CEO of the company who flat out lied to me twice.
I can just imagine the shotgun will be a hunk of junk as well.
DO NOT do business with these people. if you have an issue I am quite sure you will never get resolution from them or your money back for an inferior product.
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