Rodric Bray
Indiana Senate President Pro Tem Rodric Bray, R-Martinsville (AP Photo/Darron Cummings, File)

State Rep. Ben Smaltz, R-Auburn, is puzzling over the failure of his gun-rights bill in the Indiana Senate this week.

Smaltz’s “lawful carry” bill sought to allow law-abiding Hoosier adults to carry handguns without the need to obtain state permits.
It passed the Indiana House of Representatives by a 65-31 vote on Feb. 22.
 
Twenty-one of the 50 state senators had signed as co-sponsors of the bill, including both state senators who represent DeKalb County, Sue Glick, R-LaGrange, and Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn.

His bill almost certainly would have passed in the Senate if it had been allowed to come to a vote, Smaltz said Friday.

Instead, two Senate leaders of Smaltz’s own Republican Party blocked the bill by refusing to give it a committee hearing.

Smaltz called the outcome “very disappointing.” He added, “The support was there. … Despite what was really trying to be done for the lawful good guy, decisions were made contrary to that.”

Senate President Pro Tem Rodric Bray halted the bill because of opposition from the Indiana State Police superintendent, the state police chiefs association and the Indiana Fraternal Order of Police, he told the Associated Press.

— Dave Kurtz in Failure of gun-rights bill puzzles Smaltz

 

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59 COMMENTS

    • This is why you need to donate to the Save America PAC instead of the RNC. Donald J. Trump made it clear on Sunday that the other Party would have never certified an election certified by all 50 states like Mike Pence did. He also said Mitch owed him a big Thank You when he made Mitch’s wife Transpirtation Secretary without any qualifications. Send your dollars to the Save America PAC. If you see the RNC using the likeness of Donald J. Trump report it to the Save America PAC and Donald J. Trump will sue them. Give just $50.00 per week.

      • Th Indiana Republicans are cowards.. and they listened to false information provided to them by the ISP Superintendent. Road officers are given information during contact about an individual’s criminal and protection orders issued if any. they would immediately know if someone wasn’t supposed to be in possession of a firearm. They lied to get this bill killed.

    • “Senate President Pro Tem Rodric Bray halted the bill because of opposition from the Indiana State Police superintendent, the state police chiefs association and the Indiana Fraternal Order of Police, he told the Associated Press.” That kind of shows you who is running things. Very definition of a Police State. More Republicans allowing themselves to be blinded by the badges.

  2. Dollars to donuts that this had nothing to do with the police opposition, other than a convenient excuse. A good “journalist” (if such a thing exists anymore) would follow the money and see who has donated to the Senate Prez’s campaign, or family’s business, or family job/business opportunities.
    Want to bet one would find the Brady Bunch or similar involvement?
    Like Mellisa Francis says, “It’s all about the money.”

    • The LEO organizations were the ones donating money and making endorsements. Government employees should not be allowed to lobby for or against legislation.

      • Why not? They are private organizations. Do you believe that private organizations do not have the right to do advocacy work? I get you don’t agree with what they are advocating for (and neither do I) but I do think they have the right to advocate. It’s not public dollars doing the advocating.

  3. True story; it’s illegal to sell cold beer in Indiana. Any state that leaves laws that stupid on the books is a lost cause. Right up there with New Jersey and it’s prohibition on pumping your own gas.

    • Package (i.e. liquor) stores actually can sell cold beer, but supermarkets and convenience stores can’t. They can sell chilled wine, but not chilled beer. Still a stupid law, though, and a corrupt one written for the benefit of the interests of the liquor store owners.

      • I know the law is purportedly (laughably) intended to curb drunk driving, but it would seem that pushing people to consume 12% wine rather than 4% beer would be counterproductive to that cause.

    • Same with Oregon, regarding gas pumps. Drove up to visit the OR coast a few years back; stopped to fill up the tank; was met with a grizzled neckbeard who saw my CA plates and tersely told me not the touch the pump handle. I told him I didn’t want Full Service (which disappeared from CA maybe 20 years ago) and could take care of it myself, and he said customers are prohibited by state law from pumping their own gas.

      Don’t know where that dumb law came from. Don’t care. Never went back to OR, anyway, because it’s now become as Left as San Francisco.

      • I actually googled it a while back to see if NJ ever got rid of that stupid law and apparently a few years ago Oregon amended the law to allow self serve pumping at night in rural locations because people would get stranded for the night. Why they didn’t just repeal it is pretty baffling to anyone with at least a double digit IQ.

        • In OR you can also go to an RV pump, if the station has them, and self-service. I figured this out when I passed through OR 17 times for a move.

      • It’s obviously been around a long time. Same sort of thing happen to me back in ’99 when I visited friends in Portland. Which at the was still a nice city. Now just another Socialist Liberal Shit Hole. What a waste.

      • When I lived in NJ I actually looked up why. Answer given, it creates jobs. No lie, it’s a jobs thing…

      • Whether he’s hassling underpaid WalMart employees about corporate policies they can’t possibly be expected to know, or insulting gas station attendants simply trying to eke out a living, ‘I Haz A Question’ proves daily that he’s an intolerable jerk.

    • Actually the law is you can’t sell cold beer if you also sell cold soft drinks. So gas stations and grocery stores can sell warm beer, but a lot of them don’t bother.

      • Regardless of the nuences of the law, I intend to continue referring to IN as the ‘warm beer state’.

  4. The police stopped the bill? Really? There has to be more to the story…Bloomberg grease, Soros grease.

    Even so, would the police rank-and-file really be overwhelming against Constitutional carry? A sufficient number of states have gone there with no untoward consequences for the police or the citizenry. Maybe just the union leaders that got the grease.

    • Of course rank and file would be against it. Not having a government permission slip is an easy arrest for them.

    • Most police orgs in Indiana do support the 2A. more than 80% of county sheriff’s are in full support of constitutional carry. Some of the large metro PDs may not be (Indianapolis, Gary, not sure on the others). Most counties around Indianapolis are solid red and solidly support and encourage carry by any legal means.

      A big detractor was state policy superintendent Doug Collins. A whole lot of claptrap about needing to know if someone had a permit and might be armed during a traffic stop. Notwithstanding the faulty logic that only permitted individuals are armed…

      I would not be surprised to see the State Senate Pro Tempore and the Judiciary Cmte chair ousted in the 2022 primary cycle.

  5. Because of the stand down orders to the police in 2020, from Left wing cities. And the fact that cops followed their orders. I say the police are useless. But Libertarians Liberals and the Left, refuse to cut that “umbilical cord”. And let law abiding citizens start taking care of their own problems.

    Disarm the police.

    I say let the rats feast on the dead bodies of the criminals left out on the streets for three days. The only reason to call the police is to pick up their dead bodies.

    • Big city metro police are useless. Local and county LEOs tend to be better, depending on their elected leadership. At least, that is my experience in rural/suburban central Indiana.

  6. Ummm…don’t condemn Indiana so quickly. It’s pretty good on carrying a gat. My inept friend & his wife just got (lifetime!)carry liscenses quite easily with no training & minimal fuss. No fee either. Not a fan of republitards & never a registered ANYTHING! Still eventually moving to Hoosierland.

    • That is true. I think Indiana is in the top ten best states for 2A rights. Thanks to former gov Mike Pence.
      Don’t stop trying to get CC in Indiana. It tooks years before it got signed into law in Kentucky.

    • True, Indiana is a pretty gun-friendly state, very friendly in fact, but the battle between the police orgs and constitutional carry is pretty long-standing and well known here. I’ve heard it was, at first, a money issue (permits were a not-insignificant source of income for police) but since the ‘free permit’ thing passed I’d imagine that income has dwindled to next to nothing (you still have to pay for fingerprints, IIRC) so it seems the police orgs are just being stubborn jackasses now.

      Very disappointing. I’m fairly confident it would have sailed easily through Senate and our idiot Governor would have (begrudgingly) signed it had it been given half a chance.

  7. All you “BLUE-LINE” people … take note! The cops are not our allies. They’ll sell you out in a second to keep their fat pensions.

  8. Never give your money to a law enforcement organization or Charity…Because the people who run it are always left leaning ideologues…And the money grubbers want your permit money for slush funding..By the way I do not hate police because I am a former law-enforcement officer…

    • Hard times needed job,did telemarketing. A lot of calls were made for Fraternal Order of Police.
      It’s was a scam, by a fortune 500 company, who Donald Trump was a member of.

    • Not all are left-leaning. I know the leaders of my county’s local FOP. They are all right. Right in politics and right on the 2A.

  9. Is a reasonable shall issue system really that bad? I grew up in G I. Gary Indiana. Former murder capital of the world. I would support gun control if it only applied to black men in GI. Try being one of the few white kids in a black neighborhood. I had a p89 pointed at me when I was 14.

    Is having a day of training on holsters, carrying conditions, and the laws about printing, brandishing, and using the gun really that bad of an idea? I carry everyday and I support your right too!

  10. Just some food for thought:

    If a state allows everyone to carry, can they do a Terry frisk?
    The point being is it’s legal to carry for everyone with this bill with no permit required.
    If you are just minding your business then the police can ask what your name is but you are under no obligation to tell them unless they have a reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.
    Since this bill allows anyone to carry and you have the right to not identify yourself if you are just walking,
    in a way it does handcuff the police.
    Basically I’ll have to look into how the bill is written.

    There was a time when I lived in Illinois and worked in Indiana.
    There was a bad wreck on the 80/94 and traffic was backed up into Illinois.
    I jumped off at the first exit in Indiana and took side streets.
    I knew one went through to where I worked.
    I chose the wrong one and at a four way stop I saw a cop parked.
    When I stopped I actually counted 1 one thousand etc until 3 one thousand.
    Sure enough I was pulled over for rolling the stop.
    Illinois plates in a shady part of NW Indiana.
    To shorten this the cop was a dick and I was accused of DUI and looking for drugs.
    Two problems with that: I don’t drink and where I worked you underwent random drug testing.
    I was on 159th instead of 169th and late for work. This cop was wasting my time and I was already late for work. Another cop showed up and I explained exactly what I told the cop who pulled me over.
    I asked the 2nd cop if he any knowledge of what was going on the 80/94.
    That cop did, somebody had rolled a SUV 5 miles into Indiana and there were bodies on the 80/94.
    This cop was much cooler and knew exactly what I was trying to do.
    He said that I needed to go to 169th and asked if I rolled the stop.
    I told him that I saw the other cop parked so NO I didn’t roll the stop, he was FOS.
    He talked to the other cop and I was told I was free to go.

    The moral: It could be the police chiefs in NW Indiana.
    If the cops in Gary or East Chicago aren’t allowed to hassle people walking down the street,
    then what would they do? IOWs I think they might get sued a lot more then they already are.
    Add to that there are some shady areas in Indianapolis so it could be the cops that stopped it.
    “Why did you stop them in the first place?” They were acting suspiciously.
    “What were they doing that was suspicious?” Well they are black, said no cop ever.
    Take away walking while black and the cops aren’t going to like it.

    • Wow cupcake I never had that BS happen going from ILL to IN & vice versa. EVER. Every damn day. Even with my beautiful black wife & caramel colored son’s. You’re full of chit…it’s gotta be you😏

      • It actually happened. I was trying to get to Cline Ave from Calumet Ave.
        Traffic came to a dead stop just past Torrence. An hour later I got off at Calumet.
        I was looking for 169th and ended up I want to say on 173rd.
        It was pulled over in Hammond for “rolling the stop”.
        This was about 15 years ago so my memory is a bit hazy as to the streets.
        I knew that one went through to Cline.
        The roll over was by Burr and a bunch of people were late that shift.
        If I rolled the stop I would just tell you but I didn’t roll it.
        It was just me in a Jeep Cherokee and I’m white so race wasn’t the issue.
        I never had any issues on the 80/94, Cline or anywhere else in NW Indiana.
        It was a Saturday night and I worked that shift for a couple of years.
        I used to get gas at the Thorntons or Lukes on Indy every week.
        When I worked days I would always stop in the Cabelas and buy ammo.
        (after they built it)
        I live nowhere near there now, no more Illinois, no more Indiana.
        Wrong place, wrong time so maybe it was just me.
        The cop that pulled me over was definitely a dick though.

    • That’s called DWIP or driving with Illinois plates. There are many scum LEO in the hoosier land that prey on out-of-state motorists and issue highly questionable citations all the time. I have boycotted indiana for years and very rarely travel through that cesspool only as a last resort.

    • “If a state allows everyone to carry, can they do a Terry frisk?”

      Of course. It’s based on suspicion of a crime, not you being legal to carry. They can remove weapons for the duration of the detainment. But it still has to be a LEGAL detainment.

      • II. THE CASE AGAINST AUTOMATIC STOPS OF GUN
        CARRIERS

        To initiate a stop, an officer must have “reasonable suspicion supported
        by articulable facts that criminal activity ‘may be afoot.’ For decades,
        the only “articulable fact” on which an officer needed to rely was the
        possession of a firearm, based on the assumption that the possession itself
        was unlawful. But gun possession alone no longer reasonably indicates
        unlawful activity in a concealed carry world, despite the low
        “reasonableness” standard articulated in Terry.

        Therefore, reasonable suspicion to initiate a Terry stop requires more
        than the mere presence of a firearm. At a minimum, some other
        independent indicia of criminality should be present to justify a stop under
        Terry.

        The source is 50 pages long and goes into reexamining Terry stops in permitless carry states. It’s called “STOP AND FRISK IN A CONCEALED CARRY WORLD”
        by Shawn E. Fields – Assistant Professor of Law, Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law; J.D. 2007, Boston University School of Law; B.A. 2003 in Political Science, Yale University.

        The suspicion of a crime under Terry was “reasonable suspicion” that a person was armed with a gun. That’s no longer illegal in states with permitless carry so Terry may no longer apply.

        In legal speak: “This Article confronts the growing tension between increasingly permissive concealed carry firearms legislation and police authority to conduct investigative stops and protective frisks under Terry v. Ohio. For decades, courts upheld stops based on nothing more than an officer’s observation of public gun possession, on the assumption that anyone carrying a gun in public was doing so unlawfully. That assumption requires reexamination. All fifty states and the District of Columbia authorize their citizens to carry concealed weapons in public, and forty-two states impose little or no conditions on the exercise of this privilege. As a result, officers and courts can no longer reasonably assume that “public gun possession”equals “criminal activity.”

        Like I wrote: Just some food for thought

  13. Back the blue, and they stab us in the back.

    This is pretty much why I am anti-police union. Maybe some individual officers are ok, probably most even, but the organization as a whole is rotten.

    I refuse to support an organization that does not support the Constitution.

  14. “opposition from the Indiana State Police superintendent, the state police chiefs association and the Indiana Fraternal Order of Police”

    Of course cops are opposed to non-uniformed civilians carrying guns. It would make it so much more difficult for them to kneel on our necks.

  15. I’d be surprised if any State’s “State Police” supported Constitutional Carry. I’ve a lot of respect for Law Enforcement, but that respect lessens when it reaches the Governor’s private Law Enforcement group. They answer only to the Governor in my State, and that Arse Spelunker’s a dyed in the wool Commiecrat.

  16. While the Article didn’t want to outright call out the leaders of those groups, for those of you in Indiana you need to know who’s trying to control you and hinder your rights.

    These are the people responsible for killing open carry in Indiana.

    Indiana State Police Superintendent: Douglas G. Carter
    Indiana Association of Chiefs of Police President: Chief Jim Layne, Syracuse P.D.
    Indiana Fraternal Order of Police President: William R. Owensby

    I wonder why they are so opposed? What are they hiding?

  17. As retired law enforcement, I am always amazed by some police unions that promote more restrictive ‘gun control’ laws. As they should know, the criminals aren’t going to abide by them anyway (that’s why they are called criminals). Those laws only restrict law-abiding citizens from exercising their Second Amendment rights to defend themselves. Bad guys have and will always get their hands on a gun and use it, no matter how many laws are on the books. I imagine that most of these police organizations and officials who want more gun control are more aligned with the Democrat agenda of disarming law-abiding Americans than curbing ‘gun violence’.

  18. Cops being anti-gun is only surprising if one is naive enough to believe that cops actually want fewer victims (notice I didn’t say “less crime”). Gun control absolutely benefits the police. They get the ego kick of special treatment, the satisfaction of power over who they decide “gets” to do what they do, the money that comes from various fees and permitting schemes, the ability to use suspected firearm violations to justify literally anything they want to do… honestly it’s more surprising that any cops oppose gun control. Armed citizens are a threat to government power, and police are the armed enforcers of government. Do the math. They are NOT our friends, and 2020 proved beyond a shadow of doubt that when asked (NOT “ordered”, since pigs can always just quit their jobs) to obey the state at the expense of the citizenry, well over 90% of American law enforcement personnel will happily side with their paymasters against We The People

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