“I don’t think people should ever lose their life over loss of money or property. We would hate to see a clerk become a victim or get in a shoot-out, so we would encourage people to be good witnesses and contact the police.” That’s the counsel offered to those working in the retail sector offered by West Lafayette Police Chief Jason Dombkowski [via necn.com] But judging from recent events at establishments in the Hoosier state, clerks seem to have other ideas on the matter of personal defense. Four recent armed robberies that featured gunplay — all resulting in room temperature would-be Dillingers — have some local constables all aflutter . . .

Tippecanoe County Sheriff Tracy Brown said employees who arm themselves need to make sure they’re following company policy and are trained in how to use the firearm and when it’s appropriate to do so. Without proper training, he said, it’s hard to know whether force is justified in the short time in which an employee has to make that decision.

Those who fire a gun in self-defense are subject to the same shooting review as police officers, Brown said.

So…a few weeks on desk duty during a perfunctory “investigation,” then back to work with full pay and benefits? Just kidding. Kinda.

But Sukhbir Manihani who owns a gas station in Monticello is fine with armed self defense.

“You are not safe anywhere and anything is possible. No matter what, no matter where you are or how nice of a neighborhood you are in, things happen,” Manihani said.

“Everybody has a right to protect themselves.”

When he’s right, he’s right.

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33 COMMENTS

  1. Once the bad guy reveals his intent to rob the place then whatever force the good guy uses is justified. remember, the clerk has no way to know if the bad guy will be satisfied with the money or may have other, darker plans. If you’ve committed to carrying a gun then you’ve already decided what level of force you’re willing to use.

    Don’t second guess that decision, it may get you killed if you waffle at the last moment.

    • Honestly, I see every situation like this as a triple win. We discourage criminal activity for fear of being killed – win. We have one less crook sucking up taxpayers money in prison – win. We provide another example to society that guns in the hands of good people are a good thing and that self-defense is a valid option – win.

  6. The Sheriff is just another politician.
    I think the real cops on the streets are glad there are 4 less criminals out there

  7. ““I don’t think people should ever lose their life over loss of money or property.”

    That’s easy to say in the post-industrial age where cheap goods flow like a river. But not so long ago a man’s property (cattle, crops, trade tools) were his life and his families’ life. In this context the death penalty for seemingly minor offenses makes sense. Industrialism really screwed with our instincts.

    • Crims should lose their lives if they use violence to attempt to seize money or property.

    • That’s easy for the chief to say, he’s not sitting on property a criminal wants. It’s nice to provide tips from behind a desk down at the station, maybe he should shed his gun, badge and uniform and work undercover at at store, unarmed, for a few nights.

  8. What the fvck is this guy talking about? Civilians involved in justified DGUs, even in pro-gun states, get royally crucified in comparison to the slap on the wrist nearly every cop in the nation gets after pulling the trigger. I understand he’s pro-self defense, but saying we go through the same scrutiny as your average cop when shots are fired is a sign of being beyond out of touch with reality.

      • You might as well say it’s the D.A’s office speaking through them. Orders gotta start somewhere, right? If the D.A has negative opinions on civilian self defense, then those who blindly serve him will eventually develop the same attitude. It will filter down the ranks and show in how officers treat civilians post DGU.

        • That’s how things work in the real world. “The Law”? Pffft.

          I remember very well getting a vehicle inspection in which the inspector looked at my windows for tint. When queried upon why he was looking at my glass, he told me although tint was not illegal at the time, the HP was pushing for it to be illegal. Inspectors were told to ‘find some reason to fail’ a vehicle with tinted windows. When I noted that it wasn’t illegal, he reminded me that his license could be revoked at whim and what was he supposed to do about it…

          We have so many laws there’s always something to “get” you on. (Unless you have the $400+/hr lawyer.)

          Just the way the world has always worked.

  12. we would encourage people to be good witnesses and contact the police

    Translation: “If civilians keep shooting bad guys, us cops would be out of business. Then we’d have to go to work for a living. And that would make us sad.”

    • Need we mention that it becomes difficult to recruit Confidential Informants to be at the seen of a set-up after a few of their ‘bros end such duty tits-up and cold.

  14. Love it when people throw out crap to anyone who should really be given a pat on the back for a good job, well done. In this case it is the police who are finding the local folk standing up for themselves making them (the local police) look bad. Of course he has to throw out some statement… he will at least have those reasonable gun grabbers rooting for him, right?

    • Exactly. This is true for anywhere in America at this point, except maybe Texas.

      If a police spokesman goes on the record saying anything that might be translated as “folks, go get a gun to protect yourself, and then if anybody makes you feel threatened in any way, shoot to kill,” then that department is open to all kinds of ridiculous liability.

      “My son would still be alive if those bloodthirsty cops hadn’t told the guy he robbed to murder him. If they hadn’t told him to get a gun, my son would have enrolled in college, and gone back to church, and gotten a job, and supported his kids, by all three women, even the one that stabbed him the last time he tried to beat her, and all I want is justice.” In the form of a big fat civil settlement, of course. Yes, it’s ridiculous. Yes, I can imagine a lawyer supporting such a statement.

      On the street level, many cops encourage people to arm themselves if they feel ready. But I take care to educate them on when lethal force is justified, and extra special care to tell them when it’s not. And even more extra super special care to tell them out loud that I’m _not_ telling them to shoot anyone, because that’s a decision they have to make on their own.

  17. “…so we would encourage people to be good witnesses and contact the police.”

    Yeah, that, or they could encourage the bad guys to stop doing those thing that get them killed.

  18. “I don’t think people should ever lose their life over loss of money or property.” More armed store clerks might help get criminals to think along those lines.

    And forgive the OT comment, but I just want to say that, here in sunny gun-hating CA, I’ll be picking up my CCW permit this week. Yay!

    Now I need to address the holster issue. I’ve given it a lot of thought, but didn’t want to invest too much until I knew for sure whether or not I’d get the permit.

    • Congrats! You can get a DeSantis Intruder (crossbreed clone) on Bud’s Gun Shop’s website for about $45 after shipping, or you can get a N82 Tactical IWB for about the same. I have both, they’re both great depending on the gun you use. What will you be carrying?

    • Congratulations on jumping through the hoops and joining the club. There are a million holster options out there. I love my Crossbreed SuperTucks, for both my carry weapons.

  19. Cops are civilians.

    In my perfect world of moral constancy, cops would have no more or less rights than any other civilian.

    They would just be people hired to do a specific job.

    That means that if they shoot someone, they are subject to the same rules and investigations as any other civilian.

    It also means if there is a ban on magazine capacity, or fully automatic weapons, the cops have to obey this law as well.

    How offensive is it that people can be arrested, thrown in jail, and charged with a felony for having a 17 round magazine, by a cop who is issued and openly carries three of them… this makes no sense.

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