If you asked a gun guy or gal to name a group of people who are proficient weapons-handlers, Navy SEALs would be at or near the top of the list. Their training regimen is legendary. If there’s a more disciplined, effective group, I’m not sure who they’d be. Which makes what happened in San Diego all the more tragic. And instructive…
From utsandiego.com:
A Navy SEAL accidentally shot himself in the head early Thursday morning in Pacific Beach, and was on life support at a hospital, San Diego police said.
(Officer Frank) Cali said the victim had gone to a bar, met a woman and brought her back to his residence, where his roommate was sleeping. Cali said the man and woman had been drinking.
The man got out several guns to show the woman, but she asked him to put them away, Cali said. The man insisted that it was safe and put a pistol that he believed was unloaded to his head. He pulled the trigger and fired a round into his head.
If this tells you anything, it should be that a negligent discharge can happen to anyone. Anyone who lets the guard of his (or her) better judgement down long enough to forget those four little rules.
The un-named SEAL (not pictured above) is reportedly on life support. Here’s hoping he makes a Giffords-like recovery.
Very sad.
I don’t know about sad, but it’s incredibly stupid.
Not sad at all, this is natural selection at its best.
Off topic, buy why does those “seals” have their MP5s shouldered, but the safety on? And why does one have the stock extended and the other collapsed?
Also you guys screwed up on the photo credit, that photo is courtesy of the DoD not AmericanSpecialOps.com. At least according to AmericanSpecialOps.com and seal.navy.mil.
I’d take a wild guess and say that the safeties are on because they’re posing for a photograph and aren’t planning on shooting anyone.
If your posing for a photograph, then why bother shouldering the weapon? If your doing it for realism then why have the safety on. And why does the guy in the rear have his thumb on the fire selector, do you normally pose for photos by grabbing a gun and putting your thumb on the safety? Either way from the photograph, these guys are seem to be very inconsistent.
The photo’s an H&K photo op. They gotta get in there some time to keep their prices up and to maintain their attitude… Not to take away from the tragic event.
“why bother shouldering the…”
Neither of them is shouldering their MP5; rather they are both holding their guns at LOW READY. There is a difference.
Oh gosh, I fed the troll. Mea culpa!
Natural selection? These guys put their ass on the line every day. They make more sacrifices than you could ever imagine, although I doubt you care. Have some damn respect. The guy is a member of the most elite force in the world, period. I take it you never did anything stupid after getting drunk? I doubt your ass would make past the first day of BUDS… I also highly doubt you would be willing to repeat the words of your post in the presence of the other men from this man’s unit…
I cannot speak for the mods, but if we suffer MikeB, we must also suffer matt. I do not like it any more than you do, but here we are.
Actually, this event DOES have the potential to be natural selection; Being young and drunk is no excuse for his actions.
Also, you follow the majority opinion that natural selection is a BAD thing; This couldn’t be further from the truth.
You specifically mention being young, dumb, and drunk in your post; Could it be that YOU did things when you were in such a condition that you wouldn’t consider doing today? Did, perhaps, one of your friends do likewise and provide proof positive as to WHY one should exercise more care?
My point here, is this: if we sanitize our culture to the point where accidents have no consequences, then people will behave in riskier and riskier behaviors because they don’t have a frame of reference of how fragile we really are.
Seriously, talk to your elders and see what kind of mischief THEY got up to when they were your age and younger, and how many of their friends died young; I’ll bet that the older the person you’re talking to is, the more likely they are to have had a childhood friend die before the age of 16. Furthermore, I’ll bet that they know how that child died, and that it had an effect on their development of the ability to assess risks.
TLDR: Saying that this is an example of natural selection is not necessarily an entirely negative statement; Such examples provide proof positive that the big rules exist for a damned good reason.
The respect one gives a man for performing military service does not mean that he shouldn’t be called out for doing something fucking dumb-assed.
Dan, I think I know what you mean, but this is just not true.
“If this tells you anything, it should be that a negligent discharge can happen to anyone.”
I know you qualified it, sort-of in the next sentence. But I oppose stating it like that, that “IT can happen to anyone.” It’s not a passive experience like getting hit by a car.
This can only happen to someone who fails to adhere to the 4 Rules.
We’re discussing this on my blog right now, http://www.mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2012/01/show-and-tellanother-avoidable-gun.html
We boast some of the stubbornist and most defensive pro-gun commenters around, if anyone’s interested.
Might want to brush up on your reading comprehension skills there Mike.
You: “This can only happen to someone who fails to adhere to the 4 Rules.”
Me: “…a negligent discharge can happen to anyone. Anyone who lets the guard of his (or her) better judgement down long enough to forget those four little rules.”
Since there’s no real difference, I’m guessing you just posted to get folks here over to your site. Good luck with that.
He got one hit from me. Mikeb302000 says that we are the gun lunatic fetish culture. Zimmerman is right
+1
Traffic must be down over at mikeb’s site, he’s trolling for hits over here.
Mike: Accidents of any sort (car, gun, getting married, losing winning Lotto ticket) can happen to anyone who has had much to drink. Add in the inspiration of a pretty chick and the odds of man making a mistake skyrocket. Maybe Mr. SEAL just decided that he couldn’t think of a more perfect moment in life, so he made it last forever, only he also made ‘forever’ very short. We’re not going to get fierce young warriors that become harsh gods of PT and missions with edge by selecting for those who prefer quiet evenings at the library.
I was tempted to visit Mikeb’s blog (for about half a second), but I’m not going to help his site visits increase and I’d don’t care what the gun hating gun grabbers think about anything.
I was tempted to visit Mikeb’s blog (for about half a second)
I’d rather spend a year in the slums of Rio than half a second at mikey’s blahg.
I call bullshit. In Rio, you have a chance at getting laid.
Since when is voluntary copulation a bad thing?
Since never. I was trying (poorly) to illustrate the difference between MikeB’s blog and Rio.
Also, since they’re up in the hills, the views are beautiful, especially at night. I don’t think Mike can promise the same.
Guns and alcohol are a bad combo.
+1….Indeed.
Yup. Alcohol causes a lot of corrosion.
But… But… But…
If Alcohol and Firearms were not meant to be used simultaneously, then why are they policed by the same federal agency?
Too much alcohol by itself is a bad thing. Use it in tandem with any tool or instrument and the chance of user error increases dramatically.
Two weeks ago, a teenager shot himself in the head joking arond with his friends. Now, a SEAL does the same trying to impress a woman.
Were those people insane? Why in the name of all that’s holy would anyone not intent on suicide put a gun to their head a press the trigger?
They were trying to prove a point and broke some very important rules that cost them their lives.
Breaking a rule is one thing, but this? This is just plain nuts.
How do we know that he *wasn’t* intent on suicide? The guy’s in a coma- I’m guessing he hasn’t said anything about what he was thinking.
Bingo. Or alternatively, is the FBI following up on this barfly that was the only person with him when he supposedly shot himself?
Suicidal or stupid, I’m guessing he’ll decide not to remember anything if he wakes up. Hope he does.
Why would the FBI be involved. How would they have jurisdiction? And it is really that hard to believe that people in the military, special forces included, are fuck ups just like everyone else.
Once again, just stop. Unless you have given years of your life up in the service of others, you have no fucking right (well, this is America) to speak ill of people that have seen and done things that would likely make you crap your pants.
Why is it so hard to believe that special forces and the military in general, are fcuk ups like everyone else?
What motive would that bar fly had? Who decides to kill themselves by picking up a bar fly and then shooting themselves in the face? And how would the FBI have jurisdiction over this matter?
Pretty sure that NCIS (aka “The Admiral’s Gestapo”) has jurisdiction.
NCIS has exclusive jurisdiction on Navy bases, quarters or if Navy property is involved, but they derive no jurisdiction merely because the victim was in the Navy. They can investigate all they want, but it’s not their case. However, local authorities will usually share info with NCIS upon request if there’s Navy personnel involved.
It doesn’t seem that this shooting occured on Navy property.
NCIS != FBI
Why is it so hard to believe that special forces and the military in general, are fcuk ups like everyone else?
Matt, got that right, my Dad saw a lot of stupid people kill themselves or other friendlies in WWII. As the weapon systems got more powerful, the bigger and better the FUBARs and SNAFUs.
The grenades are good fun as well. Dad saw a screw up blow himself and three other people to pieces fumbling a grenade.
Screwed up artillery and mortar coordinates could get interesting as well.
Who decided to off themselves by picking up a bar skank and then shooting themselves in the head?
Mike,
Why do you choose to focus on guns so much when according to the CDC about 434,000 deaths are attributed annually to direct smoking and second-hand smoke inhalation? Another 8.6 million people live with an ongoing serious illness because of tobacco smoke. Gun ownership, when used as a legitimate legal tool, saves far more lives and keeps far more people from being killed or hurt than the illegitimate of guns. Guns also overall reduce home break-ins, etc.
wow this is terrible and sad.
The gene pool is a little cleaner now.
No sane person (even a drunk one puts any gun loaded or “empty” to his own head and pulls the trigger. The ONLY explanation (IMO) is that he intentionally committed suicide. This wasn’t an “accident.”
1984 – Actor John Erik Hexum kills himself with a “blank”
At around 5:15 p.m. he put the pistol up to his right temple. Witnesses said it was loaded with three empty cartridges and two blanks. Just before he pulled the trigger he smiled, and said, “Let’s see if I got myself with this one.” He was apparently unaware that at close range, a blank can cause great damage. The explosion drove a quarter-sized piece of his skull far into his brain. Turns out that the blank was packed with paper, it went straight into his temple, and made a bone chip lodge in his brain. Killed by paper.
I really doubt that the paper had enough energy to cause his skull to break in to pieces. If anything it would have been the energy from the propellent gasses.
Also according to wikipedia, he was brought to the hospital, treated, but never came out of a coma and was declared brain dead. His living body was transported to San Francisco, where his heart was transplanted in to some other guy. Killed by a physician, wounded by propellant gasses.
Unsurprisingly his mother decided it was Fox’s fault for her sons suicide, sued them, and got a settlement.
Are you taking any medications we should know about, matt?
Another example of why we should automatically assign god-like status and martial wisdom to anyone in any branch of the military, no matter the specialty. SEAL’s are without a doubt the toughest unit in the world, but they have their share of knuckleheads, too.
SEALS certainly are not tough, let alone the toughest.
Take for example Chris Kyle, a Navy SEAL who claims he punched Jesse Ventura and then ran away, because he didnt agree with Ventura’s political stance. Ventura denied the incident ever happened. More evidence that the members of the military are more than willing to sell out their fellow countrymen just because they dont agree with their political views; or that they are pathological liars who would sell out their fellow countrymen had they been given the opportunity.
http://digg.com/news/politics/navy_seal_sharpshooter_punches_jesse_ventura_in_the_face_over_war_comments
If Chris was tough, then why would he run away from an old man he just punched in the face? And then go to the national media to brag about it?
Not really trying to worship the military, but you have good and bad people in these organizations as everywhere else. I remember the book “5 Years-4 Fronts” by Georg Grossjohan who was in the German Wehrmacht during WWII. Georg says that the majority of the troops were usually fairly upright people, but with a force of millions, there were a few bad apples.
Of course it would have been nice if many of the more upright soldaten would have opposed Hitler and pals.
Of course, every country has its questionable wars and political leaders.
Too many are too trusting of Government.
Its not that there are a few bad apples, its that the millions themselves are rotten to the core. If it were only one or two bad apples, Chris Kyle would have been detained (or called out if a liar) by his fellow SEALs and brought to justice. Instead every single SEAL there choose to do nothing, were complicit and silently supported Chris’s actions. Did you watch the video, the media and presumably its audience, are glorifying Chris’s actions and calling them just. Chris is really just a single bad apple, are you serious!?!
Just wondering but what war has the US been in that was not “questionable”?
IF this isn’t some made up for ratings bar story and IF Jesse Ventura said that the Seal’s “deserved to lose a few guys” while at a wake, then the punch to Jesse’s face was just.
I know that in today’s hyper legalistic, feminized society it’s not the done thing to slug someone. You’re suppose to call a lawyer or a PR hack and bleat on a camera. But sometimes the best justice is immediate street justice.
More evidence that our sevice members are more than willing to sell out their fellow countrymen. They join the military not to serve their country but instead for the almighty dollar. What would happen to re/enlistment if the GI Bill and 5 figure bonuses went away, bonuses of such magnitude that they are matched only by Wall Street. They care not for their country, but rather for their pocket book and memory. Brian Terry is another great example of people attempting to glorify a man who was in it solely for himself.
And BTW, who the hell has a wake in a bar? A group of raging alcoholics? Was it too much to ask to have it in formal setting, they couldnt class it up a bit and host it at a restaurant that happens to serve alcohol?
The SEALs did deserve to lose a few guys, and deserve to lose many more. They fight not for what is just or for what they believe in, but rather they fight blindly for a man they barely know and call superior to themselves.
You are hereby and forthwith relegated to “troll” status. Your comments will no longer be acknowledged.
I did not waste my time watching a video over a sucker punch and I have been around enough veterans of WWI to modern wars to know that most of them would probably not approve.
Have some goddamn respect. I know SEALS, I’ve worked with them, and I assure you they are tougher than you could ever imagine. Do not speak of that which you nothing of.
Respect is earned, not given away, else it has no value. They did nothing worthy of earning my respect. Instead it sounds like you want me to be subservient to them, to never call in to question their actions.
Forgot to add coward to that list. I really do wish bad things upon you, Matt. Just wishes, not treatening you in anyway. However, I do hope you have an ND, either taking yourself out, or your computer. Either way, you will lose the ability to spread your messages of hate. Hating on the people that devote their lives to protecting turds like you… REALLY? If anyone feels I am off base on this, please chime in.
Come to Chicago and i’ll say it to your face. Your seem like your just waiting for an opportunity to oppress your fellow countrymen, and i’m just waiting to be martyred.
They never devoted their life to protecting me, they devoted their life to oppressing others. Just as they did in 1970 at Kent State, to the very beginning with the Wiskey Rebellion under George Washington. My favorite is in 1932 in Washington DC, Gen. MacAruther (along with Eisenhower and Patton) shot, bayoneted and attacked with an arsenic based chemical weapon, aprox 40,000 WW1 veterans, their wives and children. Even when directly ordered by his Commander and Cheif to stand down, MacAruther ignored orders and continued his assault on the American people because he didnt agree with their political viewpoint.
And if those SEALs are so tough, why do they have to resort to sucker punching elderly veterans, and then running away in fear of reprisal? Sounds like Chris was really tough running away from a fight with a elderly man. Cowardice much? If the SEALs as a community dont support beating elderly veterans, then where is their condemnation of this act? Has Chris been arrested and brought to justice, wether that may be civilian or military? Or is he instead on the radio bragging about how he sucker punched an elderly veteran?
Then I guess that’s what I did for five years of my life Matt. I was oppressing my fellow country men by SERVING, both under Bush and Obama. I’ve spent well over a year of my life submerged (that means beneath the water, Matt) on a nuclear sub, doing things you couldn’t imagine. You think the US is bad? Move to Iran. I’m sure that they would love to have you. This country is FAR from perfect, but the bottom line is you would be speaking German if it wasn’t for all of those American “oppressors” that gave their lives in the defense of not just this country, but the world as a whole. Sounds like you have so much distain for this country and it’s citizens, that you ought to move the hell out of here. I am assuming you are an American. If you are, you are a complete disgrace. By the way, you never did answer my question as to what you have done in your life that gives you the credibility to not only insult those in the military (and all vets), but the most elite force in the world. Tell us- what makes Matt so great. I am extremely curious, and I would imagine many others are as well. Please, enlighten us, Matt.
I just realized I have lost precious moments of my life trying to reason (ok, expose and embarrass) with a complete idiot. I can’t get that time back, and you certainly won’t change your views. Wasted time and energy. I don’t hate you, Matt. Hate breeds hate, and I retract that previous statement. I do however wish that karma catches up with you soon. I stand my statement wishing a ND upon you though. One that at the least disables your ability to both speak and type, at a minimum. I do want you to know one last bit of info, though- *cue suspenseful music*… I’m BLACK! Go on…you know what you want to say. Thanks to “oppressors” like me, and millions of others, you can call me whatever you want. Maybe not in Iran, though…
Congrats on being on a sub full of sea men. lol move to iran, id rather move to Ukraine, their women protest sex tourism by stripping in the street, yay femen! and some of them get their hymens sticked back up to pretend like they’re virgins. yes, i would be speaking german, because you know we had all those Nazis marching down main street with their spiffy uniforms by hugo boss. WW2 troops gave their lives in defense of keeping europe subservient, destroy the infrastructure and use the marshall plan to pick favorites. many gave their lives because they were drafted, not because they cared about anything, they were give that choice or jail.
“Hate breeds hate, and I retract that previous statement. I do however wish that karma catches up with you soon. I stand my statement wishing a ND upon you though. One that at the least disables your ability to both speak and type, at a minimum”
lulz, just more evidence that our service members are more than willing to wish harm upon their fellow countrymen.
and um… congrats on being black, not really sure how this is relevant, i’d elaborate but RF would probably delete this. give it another week or two and we can go at it
Hey, it is a free country, well maybe. Matt is entitled to his opinions about American Government and Military. This is what makes America great.
Face facts, this nation has had some great and not so great moments.
As Stephen Decatur said, “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”
Look at it this way, this country and the second amendment has been around for over 220 years, and we still havent been able to “set right” this issue. You eventually have to give up, I think giving this country 220 years has been more than reasonable enough. And its not like thats the only major issue we’ve been trying to tackle and still have not, since the country’s inception.
Most of the time when there is a revolution, the rights of people are at a loss. I would like to see a Libertarian Spring in the Country, but I have not seen much support for libertarian type candidates. I mean Romney is ahead in the Primary and I really do not see much of a difference between him and Obama. We get a choice between Nazism and Communism, what a choice!
Sorry, boss, but I disagree on this one. I don’t care if the guy is the baddest SEAL ever or if he’s the guy who offed bin Laden, sometimes you get what you deserve. This guy went to a bar, got drunk, picked up a drunk girl, went home, wanted to show her that I’m a SEAL, so play with my weapon, and this happened. He deserves the same sympathy as the story before this one (New Years Eve Russian Roulette) and the story after (dishonest cop sues City).
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