http://youtu.be/H4wo0dOmxvU
By his own account, the camera guy who recorded the video above was sitting in a car on the residential street before the above video starts. Again, by his own account, when camera guy saw a homeowner taking pictures, camera guy decided to do a “walk-by.” Roll the tape! We clearly see that the homeowner has a gun by his side. Which sets off camera guy, who’s pretty damn aggressive for a guy talking to a guy with a gun. I’m not saying that the homeowner shouldn’t have been armed. Or the camera guy, for that matter. I’m saying that the homeowner was wrong to have his gun in plain sight when camera guy walked by. Or gone for a walkabout when he was was confronted. He should have attempted to de-escalate the situation. Something like . . .
“Sorry guy, I didn’t know who you were.” Not moving closer to get friendly. Quite the opposite, in fact. Moving away to create as much distance as possible. Come to think of it, why did the homeowner come out in his yard in the first place? If camera guy had been intent on doing harm, greeting him out in the open like that was pretty stupid. As was using both hands to video.
More than that, George Zimmerman much? If there’s something suspicious in the ‘hood and no one’s in any immediate danger, I reckon a responsible gun owner (or anyone else for that matter) should watch from a safe distance (where and when possible). If they think something bad’s going down or innocent life’s in danger, they should call 911. [NB: no cop car shows up for the entire length of this video.] If they can’t wait for the cavalry, milling around threateningly isn’t necessarily the best strategy.
As for the whole “walking while black” implication to the tape, meh. Camera guy was an unfamiliar person in the suburban paradise. An unknown white kid lurking in his car might have received the exact same treatment. Who knows? Anyway, what’s your take? Was the homeowner an irresponsible gun owner or just some guy looking out for his neighborhood?
never have a life changing event with a stranger for stupid reasons. both should have walked away.
The guy recording appears to not know the difference between open carry and brandishing since at a certain point he says “you pulled a gun out on me and you still have it on your hip”
It being on his hip implies that it is holstered on his hip. Also if the homeowner did not take pictures of the guy he might not have been confronted. How did the guy know that the person he was confronting was not a cop? How did he know that the guy he was confronting was not a member of the Mafia?
Borg,
It looks like the yard guy had his pistol out at about 0:45. Camera guy can’t hold his camera still enough but it looked like yard guy’s pistol was in his right hand for a moment and then his arm (and arm) swung behind his thigh.
I’ll have to watch the video this evening, but just commenting on your editorial:
This is exactly what George Zimmerman actually did. He removed himself to a safe location, parked his car, and called NEN. The suspicious person then approached him, and went past. When the NEN operator told Zimmerman to keep an eye on the suspicious person, and Zimmerman exited his vehicle, the suspicious person was already out of sight. At no time did Zimmerman try to be at anything other than a safe distance – and in fact, he didn’t even know where the suspicious person had gone.
As for this scenario (again, without yet having watched the video): some unknown person accosts a homeowner minding his own business, on his own property? Sounds like the camera man was the instigator, and the sole person in the wrong.
(Opinion subject to change after watching the video.)
I watched it…three times just to be sure of what transpired. Chip, you and I share political viewpoints but we have differed on video viewpoints.
Here is what I saw. I saw Barack Obama walking down the street and getting his feelings hurt when the white person locked the car door.
Actually that is not what I saw but this video reminded me of that story “The One” loves to tell his black followers in order to convince them that he is one of them.
Was he profiled? Maybe. How does one prove it without admission from the profiler? Should he have drawn his gun? I would not have, but we don’t have much context here. Did he break a law in drawing a gun on his own property and not pointing it? No. He broke no laws.
Both guys were overly alerted. Better than one being oblivious when the other means harm. But in the end no one was physically harmed. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Not going to nominate him for an IGOTD with all the police officers out there taking top honors.
Um, in FL you can open carry on your own property, last I checked. However, I do believe there’s still a clause in there that you can’t be terroristicly threatening anyone with it, or something to that effect.
that video sure wasn’t in Florida – there was standing snow in the ground!
Dude should have kept walking. The a-hole who pulled a gun? Definitely irresponsible gun owner. He had no reason to brandish his pistol. He back away from the street out of concern of a stranger in the neighborhood. But beyond that, there was no threat.
“…there was no threat.”
Probably because the cameraman realized he was about to confront a concealed carrier. Had the gun owner not pulled out his gun I suspect it would have escalated much further than two people filming each other. Knockout game anyone?
Was the gun owner right to pull out a gun in response to someone peacefully filming him? No. Is that what happened here? Doesn’t look like it to me. Looks more like he knew he was being followed down the street and a confrontation was imminent.
Knockout game? Why, because he’s black? It seems clear that the white guy did, indeed, draw his gun because the filmer was black.
Lesson 1: Always carry with a round in the CHAMBER!! Whitey racking the slide was a very instigative move.
Lesson 2: If suddenly moved into condition orange, just push back the concealment garment or even put hand on the gun. Blade yourself to the target without drawing too much attention. Do NOT draw gun unless condition red. Why in the world did he draw his gun?
Because he didn’t follow Lesson 1 and he felt he needed a round in the chamber. For the reason of being completely unprepared, whitey gets a IGOTD!
Really? What exactly happened that makes it so clear that it was only because the filmer was black? If a white guy just jumped out of a suspicious car that the guy just photographed and then proceeded to chase him down he would have assumed the guy wanted to exchange phone numbers to do some neighborhood watch networking? You could see that clearly in the video?
I always heard growing up that the problems of society exist because people don’t want to get involved.
The older I get I notice more and more problems being caused because of people getting themselves involved.
Very definitely a judgment call.
I suspect those claims to the problems of not getting involved were referencing real cases (and they continue to happen) where someone is being actively attacked and others don’t get involved. For example, there was the case a few months back where people video’d the one woman beating the crap out of another woman without ‘getting involved.’ That’s questionable.
Now…a lot of folks get ‘involved’ over little/nothing….certainly no imminent threat of any kind. Murder over parking spots is a good, though extreme, example of this.
It all depends on the situation, the degree of threat/danger and what is actually happening.
Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people trying to get rid of all the troublemakers.
There will be trouble at first when you are one of the very few that get involved. When I was a young boy, I can’t tell you how many strangers told me to quit acting up. If I wore my pants below my ass in public in 1975, I could not go one city block without 50 people telling me to pull my pants up. Say something to a kid these days and see the shit storm that come out of it.
What I don’t see is how the homeowner holsters after the video showing him with a gun along his body (between 0:20 to 0:25). Seems to me that is was something else, maybe a phone. Notice he is getting both his hands to the mouth right after showing right arm along his body.
Others care to comment?
About 18 to 24 seconds in you see the gun down by his side then puts it into right pocket of cost then hands go up to his face the problem is he clearly didn’t reach for the gun as camera guy comes down the walk way and only puts it away afte the guy with the camera lets him know that he sees the gun and doesn’t have one but is recording then homeowner denies having the gun out. If you can watch between 18 and 24 seconds very close its hard to see it before that.
Both sides were wrong! Both were looking for a confrontation. Homeowner has viable concern about person unknown casing the neighborhood but went beyond the “reasonable person” statute. What he did to escalate the situation was beyond what a reasonable person would do. He could easily now face jail time. He did not stay within the boundaries of his castle but went out looking for a fight. The suspect, however, was trying to create a scene in which he wanted to look totally innocent. Both were wrong.
That’s pretty much my take, too. This looks like two guys who are both looking for trouble.
Pet peeve: unless you intend to call an area outside Jerusalem for help, it’s cavalry.
Me too. I corrected my English teacher on that when I was a sophomore in high school. Unfortunately, the whole class kind of ran away with the whole deal until she got mad. I apologized to her after class.
Guy with the camera is an idiot. Plain and simple. Looking for a problem. Self fulfilling prophecy.
No idea on the gun owner. Maybe a little stupid, but you can’t assess a threat by turning your back to it. Dude lives in a crap neighborhood. Has every right and cause to do what he’s doing. Though I do question his methods. Should have charged the gun before he was outside, though. Unless he was actually offering a threat.
Both guys were idiots. BOTH men escalated, and continued to escalate, the situation long after they should have said to each other “sorry for the misunderstanding” and went their separate ways.
How ’bout a new category: ICPOTD (Idiot Cell Phone Owner of The Day)? Then each could get their own award.
Homeowner should have kept gun out of sight and never left his yard. In some parts of the country you would go to jail for pulling a gun wether it’s to ready or just show. In my state you can’t pull or show to intimidate someone it’s a very fast way to lose all your guns and get a jail cell for your actions regardless of who called 911. The camera guy did have a big mouth and that camera would not help him if the homeowner decied to take a shot and killed him. I go out to investigate also and also armed but gun is ready before I go out the door and gun is concealed it’s a better way as the firearm doesn’t spark anything if needed it’s ready if not nobody knows about it. I’m sure he wasn’t looking for a gun fight but just the stupid way he went about it then following down the street totally wrong. I know some go barging out the for with gun out in open but to me that’s a good way to find a gunfight that you may loose both ways as you become the aggressive part and the other guy has the right to defend himself against you and would be in the right in doing so. Just handled very poor.
“Homeowner should have kept gun out of sight and never left his yard. In some parts of the country you would go to jail for pulling a gun wether it’s to ready or just show. In my state you can’t pull or show to intimidate someone it’s a very fast way to lose all your guns and get a jail cell for your actions regardless of who called 911.”
Exactly. The homeowner should never have pulled a gun. Nor should he have gotten into a yammering argument with camera-phone-guy who was obviously looking for yet-another-example-of-white-racism-in-American-society. If you see someone suspicious in your neighborhood, as happened to me recently, it’s best to not leave your yard, keep your distance from the questionable individual, and politely ask what they’re doing in your neighborhood. By letting the person know he’s been spotted, you’ve done about all you can do in the initial interaction. The guy I questioned claimed he was an architect, photographing houses was part of his job and was pissed that I was talking to him. At that point I used an old teacher’s trick for dealing with confrontational students: I stopped talking to him, didn’t break eye-contact, and—without moving back—just stared at him. This is called a “null response” and it usually terminates an interaction while simultaneously denying the other person a sense of having “won” the encounter. This worked. Confused, knowing he’d been busted, the guy stomped off without saying anything else. I didn’t let him know I was armed because there was no need.
Nice.
It’s cavalry, not calvary.
Just an FYI.
Many assume that up to the curb is ones property.
Most urban/suburban sidewalks are on the street right of way. Standing in your yard inside the side walk is still your castle but by stepping out on the side walk in most cases, you are now in “the street”.
Me mindful of your property line if you want the castle doctrine to protect you.
BTW
Both are idiots.
I don’t think suspicion of a drug transaction (which seems to be what the armed guy is claiming) or even suspicion of ‘casing’ is a very good reason to confront someone with a weapon in hand or even just displayed openly.
The camera man did the confronting.
For some reason lost on me now, I had thought that there had been a confrontation previously and the ‘camera man’ was returning to video the guy back. The camera man sure seems to have a chip on his shoulder, though.
From the conversation it sounded to me as though the home owner had taken the videographer’s picture with his own cell phone before the angry black guy started filming. If the homeowner had been carrying at that point the black guy may have noticed (which to me would have been a good reason to go the other way rather than provoke someone of unknown emotional state and carrying a firearm of unknown state of readiness). Those combined actions may have been the provocation to start filming.
The camera man’s story about maybe buying his nephews car sounds bogus to me. If you’re checking out the car why wasn’t it at his mom’s house around the corner and who just parks on some random street to look around the inside of the car? they had to have been there for awhile to peak the homeowners interest enough for him to arm himself and walk outside to take pictures.
The homeowner should of just stayed on his own property and called the police. They weren’t an immediate threat and his actions drew attention to himself potentially making him a target of retaliation if they were criminals.
chuck,
You wrote, “… peak the homeowners interest …”
The correct word is “pique”, not “peak”. I am not saying this to be a wiseguy or belittle you. I never knew the difference until someone pointed it out to me and I thought you might like the opportunity to learn the difference as well.
Thanks uncommon. It never hurts to learn something new.
The pistol is a reactionary instrument, meant to stop a fight the other guy started.
The homeowner carries a gun with an empty chamber, only charging his piece as he makes contact. He clearly intends this act to be construed as a threat. In most cases, a handgun should remain holstered until the decision to shoot has been made.
So the homeowner makes two blunders. He threatens a man who appears to be no immediate danger to him and he enters the encounter with his sidearm unready.
Never use a gun to make a threat. If you decide to carry a gun, make sure it is loaded before you engage.
The tough choice for me was to decide which of the two was more stupid. I gave up and gave them both equal credit.
An unknown white kid lurking in his car might have received the exact same treatment.
Ha ha ha! That’s cute.
Don’t assume everyone else shares your views. For me it’s what they’re wearing that catches my interest. Black, white, or purple. Is that profiling? Oh well.
I don’t see anything wrong with any of this.
Both men were suspicious of each other and were filming each other. The black guy suspects the white guy is racist, the white guy suspects the black guy is up to trouble.
Having a camera out filming people could be innocent behavior, or they could be casing either a person or property, hence the suspicions on both sides.
Everyone’s prejudiced, no one got shot or had a gun pointed at them, they got to communicate their edginess about each other, they got to share their points of view and “educate” each other.
That said I’d not have done the same. If I was the black guy, for all I know the white guy is totally nuts. If I wanted to communicate my feelings I’d have sent him a letter. instead. If I was the white guy I’d have hidden my advantage. Both men were posturing at each other and seemed to be itching to move toward a more exciting altercation.
I’m going to use that. “Wanna tell him how you feel? Send him a letter!”
If he doesn’t like what I had to say, and he shoots the letter, I can live with that. Literally.
I would have said to the guy “Hey man, I’ve never seen you around here before.” then I would’ve asked him simple questions like “Do you live around here?” “Are you visiting someone?” “Yeah? Who?”
If he gives evasive answers then I would have taken pictures of him and the vehicles plates. From there depending on the guys reactions I’d respond accordingly but each step would be taken non aggressively unless he became aggressive.
The guy admitted he didn’t live in the “North side”. So unless he had legitimate business he was prepared to prove he had in a neighborhood he didn’t live in he shouldn’t have been there.
Just a little humility on his part could have diffused that situation instantly. Instead he became louder and more obnoxious no doubt because of his societal influences.
Courtesy is free and should be freely given. Obnoxious people should have the taste slapped out of their mouth. A lesson I learned early as a child. 🙂
This video is so full of stupid I had to stop. I see someone I don’t know loitering around my house, I will absolutely pay attention. From inside my house. They start doing something suspicious, call the cops. It’s not your job to confront a potential criminal. We pay the police to do that. On the flip side, what kind of a nutjob starts yelling and arguing with a guy who has a gun out? Must be jonesing for a Darwin award. And I agree with other commenters, if they were really “looking at a car”, that’s an awfully strange place to do it. I presume the guy on the lawn knows his neighbors well enough that he would recognize the nephew if he lived there.
From the homeowners perspective, save yourself the trouble and stay in your house unless they step onto your property (presumably it’s someone acting suspicious, not a kid chasing a ball or the local Jehovah’s Witnesses), and then only confront someone after calling the cops.
You mean you SHOULDN’T threaten JW’s with a gun?
Damn. My dog used to threaten them for me with his teeth but he passed away over a year ago (sigh) greatest dog I ever had.
White guy is going to jail.
Black guy, at least as far as we can see in the video, broke no law and threatened no one. Perhaps he was unwise to talk with the man, but I don’t think that is illegal; In fact, I’d say confronting the brandisher and getting him to react to comments helps the jury see that he agrees that he had a gun in his possession.
Jail time.
Depends on the situation, which I did not see explained here. I’m on a dead-end street, which is so marked (you don’t accidentally get lost getting here), and I know most of my 20-odd neighbors. Somebody walks down my street, doesn’t bother me a bit. Someone drives down my street more than once in an hour or so, I am going to helpfully go ask him if he’s looking for someone special, while copying down his license plate, all while I am armed. Black or white matters not a whit, most times. We did have one time when the guy I accosted with a “Whassup?” was a uniformed cop cruising our little area repeatedly, after two black guys dressed as bangers fled their attempted robbery of a jewelry store, abandoning their stolen car to escape into the woods leading to our street, still armed. That day, yes, I was looking for black men, and carrying something larger than normal when I went to the bus stop to pick up my granddaughter.
Camera guy was an idiot, and I would have kept a close eye on him until he left, and I would have his license plate number, and photos of him. He can yell “profiling” and “racism” all he likes, the terms have no legal meaning in a private encounter. I did not catch exactly why he felt a need to be on that street, and for that reason I am still not convinced he wasn’t planning a robbery/home invasion.
“I am still not convinced he wasn’t planning a robbery/home invasion.”
Highly doubtful. Most criminals, once they’ve been “made”, tend to leave the scene pretty quickly. They don’t generally get out of their car and confront the person who’s watching them, while encouraging witnesses to call the cops.
Camera Guy mentions something about his nephew and his mother living nearby, so perhaps he was just visiting someone who is a neighbor of Idiot Gun Guy.
Two people in a car in the street of a neighborhood they do not live in….sorry, but I would be taking note as well regardless if they were black, white, brown, purple, or green. (BTW, I am part native-American.) A picture of their license plate is totally in order. As far as OC, it is not great tactically, but it is his prerogative. From the resolution of the video, I am not sure if he drew or not. Calling police…great idea; closing up the gap between the two, really bad idea. I think a retreat into the house or behind cover until the police arrived would have been appropriate. De-escalation would have been the right thing to do. The person taking this video is probably an idiot who was looking for a confrontation. First, he is acting aggressively toward someone who is armed, which is all kind of stupid. Second, he posted a video on the Internet of him making accusations he cannot prove, which if I were the home owner, I would sue. Third, if the homeowner did not draw, the one holding the camera is the one initiating the confrontation. Frankly, I did not see any overt aggression by the homeowner, but again, he did not do enough to de-escalate.
There’s plenty of stupid to go around in this video. Both are at fault for not trying to de-escalate.
The problem here is that the homeowner was “responding” to the perfectly legal activies of the camera man (being on a street and walking down a sidewalk). The homeowner is flirting with a brandishing charge and a jury could very well convict him.
It would be different if the camera man was trespassing or had threatened the homeowner or the homeowner was simply playing with his handgun independent of the camera man’s activities. However, that was not the case.
I live in this area of Minneapolis and below is the local news paper article about the incident. Worth a read.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/291607271.html
What is irritating about this to me as a resident of the north side, is that there has been a rise in residents here confronting individuals they think are suspicious with guns on the hip. I understand that they are trying to prevent crime, but they seem to be doing more harm than good.
I have noticed “people that don’t belong” on my street. When that happens, I nonchalantly step outside with a discrete camera and walk to an advantageous location. First thing I do is take photos of the “suspicious” people and/or car. Then I observe them for a while. If I don’t like what I see, I may approach them to inquire about their activity. Notice that I do not walk up with a firearm in hand and accuse them of nefarious intentions. If I am really concerned, I invite the local police to come out and investigate.
There are countless “legitimate” reasons why someone could be stopped in a car or walking in a “foreign” neighborhood. Someone could be visiting from out of town. Someone could be lost and looking at a map or smart phone. They could have just learned that a loved one died and they stopped their car to collect themselves — or went for a walk to collect themselves. Their car could be malfunctioning. They could be writing down notes. The list goes on and on. If you want to investigate, that is fine. Escalating to gun play before you know for certain that crime is afoot is a really bad idea.
Both at fault. Idiot filming was looking for trouble. Guy with gun more so at fault, should have de-escalated as soon as he saw the guy was filming and not looking for a physical confrontation. What was GG doing walking all over the neighborhood? I’m guessing he wasn’t at his home when this thing started and he was trying to get there? IDK…all kinds of stupid on both sides here.
Avoid any deadly confrentation at all cost. Only use a gun when your life is in danger! Call the cops if you see any suspicious activities. Brandishing a weapon is an act of aggression.
Homeowner is at fault, he could have stayed in his home and allow the police to investigate.
Yes, both participants were idiots. However, the homeowner with the gun is damned lucky the cops didn’t respond quickly because he left his property and went walking around in the street openly carrying a gun. And yes, he did pull the gun out of his holster briefly, while still on his property, a bonehead move given that there was no imminent threat. I don’t think the Tueller Drill applies to a guy shooting video from what appears to have been 30 – 50 feet away. As for RF’s reference to Zimmerman, that idiot cop wannabe put himself in harm’s way when he decided to follow the “suspicious person” instead of simply leaving it up to the Police. Ultimately the kid was also wrong when, instead of either ignoring Zimmerman or verbally confronting him to ask why he was being followed, chose instead to assault him. At that point, yes, Zimmerman was in fear for his life and defended himself. BUT, he created the situation which ultimately led to his having to defend himself. And by so doing he diminished the credibility of all of the rest of us who carry concealed for perfectly legitimate reasons and have no secret desire to one day be the hero. By his standard of “suspicious person,” a guy returning from a trip to the convenience store, I’ve been guilty of being that same suspicious person (BTW, I’m white).
He did nothing but walk on a sidewalk – after the NEN operator instructed him to keep an eye on the suspicious person. When the NEN operator realized Zimmerman had gotten out of his car to try to follow the suspicious person, he told Zimmerman “we don’t need you to do that” – and at that point, Zimmerman stopped.
It is important to note here, however, that Martin eluded Zimmerman’s visual contact before Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Zimmerman had no idea where Martin went, and that remained true up until the moment that Martin approached, verbally accosted, and physically assaulted Zimmerman.
Not “also” wrong. Only wrong. Zimmerman was somewhere he had every right to be, and was doing something he had every right to be doing.
That should be the end of it. But…
Wrong. It was Martin who created the situation that led to his own death, by either circling back or lying in wait in hiding, to ambush Zimmerman. The facts of the case are quite clear. Had Martin wanted to avoid a confrontation, he merely needed to continue on to Brandi Green’s apartment and go inside. He would have been inside before Zimmerman ever reached the now-famous sidewalk “T”. Instead, it was Martin who’s actions belied a desire for confrontation.
Oh, bovine excrement. Zimmerman was the victim of an assault through no action or fault of his own, and defended himself.
Leave “he didn’t have to get out of the truck” to the race baiters like Parks and Crump. If you agree with such an assertion, then it is you who diminish the rights and credibility of law-abiding people who choose to carry firearms for self-defense, by subjugating to the Safari Principle our right to defend ourselves when we are in places we have every lawful right to be, conducting affairs that we have every right to conduct.
You’re also apparently someone who failed to look past the Narrative, to see the actual facts and evidence in the case. Martin was suspicious, and was behaving suspiciously – even aggressively.
If his intent was merely to return from the convenience store, he would have accomplished that intent in 1/3 of the time it took him to do so – just as, if his intent had been to return home after seeing Zimmerman talking on the phone in his truck, he would have been there long before Zimmerman would have had any hope of ever seeing where he went.
What does that have to do with anything?
Ignorance is color blind.
“Zimmerman was somewhere he had every right to be and was doing something he had every right to be doing.” Correct, and so was Martin. When did walking home from the store become a suspicious activity?
Zimmerman saw Martin walking near the homes and looking in windows. The narrative was that Martin was trying to stay out of the rain by walking under the eaves. That row of houses do not lead to the home where Travon was staying so he was going to have to walk in the rain anyway. I don’t think eaves on two story buildings give you much cover from rain. Also, Zimmerman described Martin’s actions as strange saying that it is “raining and this guy is just walking around looking about”. That doesn’t sound like someone just walking home or avoiding the weather.
To George Zimmerman, “this guy looks suspicious”. “This guy” is not a racial term. GZ was not sure of the race of the person that looked suspicious until Martin walked toward him and he got a closer look.
Martin ran all the way home then went back to find Zimmerman. He found him. He attacked him. He brought fists to a gun fight.
When “walking home from the store” turned into loitering around houses after dark, in the rain, especially in a neighborhood that had several previous break-ins.
I’m just gonna use my personal philosophy on self defense, and I say this to everyone who asks about carrying a firearm for self defense. If you have to draw your weapon, you have already decided to fire, and you see no other alternative. A firearm should not be used as a show of force or a threat, it should be used to end the situation… its best to live and let live, in my opinion. But if my life, or my family or friends are threatened, I’m not going to leave that guy alive to testify against me… just my $.02
Irresponsible and racist.
Completely irresponsible on the gun owners part. No doubt that he is afraid of the bogey man (people of color). There is no self define situation to discuss here. That mans life is not in danger at all to justify pulling a gun. A more nefarious person would have not even let it go that far. As soon as he would of pulled the gun there would be a gun fight. No questions asked. Sort it out later.
What would everyone think if the person being confronted was a woman? The reason I ask is because for all we know the confronted person may be suffering from physical disabilities that may have played a part in why he drew the gun. We do not know the whole story so I will reserve judgment since we only have half of the story.
I don’t think it would have mattered much, because at the point where Gun Guy draws and racks the slide, it seems like he’s pretty far from being in “imminent physical danger”. Camera Guy is moving at a normal walking pace, and he’s still a pretty good distance away when the gun comes out. Disability or not, the gun only comes out when you’re facing an imminent threat. I don’t see that here.
I don’t think it is my place to tell someone else when is a proper time to “make ready” their firearm.
I know guys that just the mere act of walking near them, step back and put their hands up in a guard position as if I was about to attack them. Some people feel they require a head start.
This man felt he was observing a criminal. Was it right? Only if it was right. Was it wrong? Only if it was wrong. Must be nice to be 100% right all the time.
Both guys overreacted but that is their business.
Wow so much wrong here…beyond wasting 4minutes. In my neighborhood south of Chicago I could do the idiot white guy thing constantly. LOTS of suspicious black males wandering around. And I have 2 large IRC sons who wander around. No open carry in Illinois either. White guy could have shot an angry black guy screaming profile racist garbage at him. White guy is guilty of brandishing(to me). Black guy must be one of those crazies who argues or fights with cops(who carry GUNS). Whatever…nothing to learn here-move along.
White dude clearly had his gun out as the guy filming approached and he should not have done that. It is called brandishing.
I had surgery awhile back and one of my visiting nurses was from Cameroon. Great guy, and he often stops and does paperwork in his car in various residential neighborhoods where he has been sent.
He told me that just recently a homeowner saw him stopped on the side of a residential street and called the police on him. When the officer realized this guy was a medical professional he was extremely apologetic for wasting his time.
The fact of the matter is people should mind their own damn business. Stopping your car is not crime. Unless they are knocking on your door or skulking around where you know they should not be, leave well enough alone. Get a hobby instead of peeping through your blinds.
We have the advantage of seeing the incident from the point of verbal confrontation to, pretty much, the end. In the whole, there did not seem to be any case where deadly force would have been justified, and therefore neither was there cause to unholster, so it’s tempting to give him the IGOTD award.
However. If you think this through from the gun owner’s perspective: You notice an idling car sitting on your street in front of a neighbor’s house, where it’s not likely supposed to be. Maybe it’s nothing, but you decide to get a picture of the license plate in case something happens later. After taking the picture you start walking back home. Now you notice that one of the people who was in the car has hopped out and is now quickly following you. Someone who you already suspected may not be up to any good. Obviously he didn’t like having a picture taken of his vehicle. So, now he’s hopping out so you can take more pictures of him? Is he going to try to steal your camera/evidence? Is he going to physically assault you to do so, or maybe shoot you?
I honestly can’t imagine what the cameraman thought he was going to do. Sitting in his car, minding his own business, talking to a friend. Some nosy guy comes out and takes pictures of his car for whatever reason. So, he jumps out and chases him down just to film him back? And then do what? If you don’t like being photographed, move along. Chase someone down and they’re not supposed to feel threatened?
“Shouldn’t have had his gun visible b/c it escalated the situation.” (Paraphrase) is your statement, RF, an argument against open carry in general?”
I would ask the Black Man this:
If the race tables were turned here and the White Man was acting in his part, would the White Man have been well received in a Black Neighborhood?
The problem in the Black Community is that they pretend that the taboo issue of “Race” is a one way street of the White Man against the Black Man when in the “real World” there are equally as many Black People that discriminate against White People…In STL, MO during the Black Race Riot in Ferg. there were countless documented cases of blatant Black on White Crime (translation Black on White Ass-kickings…)…
Point is this Black Man should invite the White Man to conduct this very same exercise in the Black Areas…One pointer beforehand, have an ambulance on standby–strike that, make it a hearse…
That is all…
This black man would like to answer. Pro2aguy, you clearly have feelings toward the “black community” that I don’t care to address but I would say that it doesn’t really matter. The issue at hand, is this guy being irresponsible with his firearm? Yes, if you conduct yourself in the manner that this gun owner did, you will only get yourself killed, thrown in jail or put through a George Zimmerman, or Deron Wilson type ordeal.
Here’s a Canadian read on this. First, under our laws the white guy would be under arrest & facing some serious criminal charges. We do not have things like the “right to carry” as described by a few here. My perception was the gun owner was not expecting the filmer to actually walk down & confront him. When he did, the gun was drawn & the slide racked as a blatant attempt to intimidate. When it didn’t work the way he expected (i.e. the way it does on T.V. where everyone runs away rapidly on the first sight of a gun…they DON’T keep coming forward!) the gun owner realized he’d done a really stupid, irresponsible thing, holstered his weapon and then made a very unconvincing show of pretending to call Police, while pacing back & forth trying to “think” his way out of this.
It was a really stupid move, and very irresponsible. My thought is that he’s very lucky…lucky the filmer didn’t walk up, take the gun away from him and shoot him with his own gun.
Brandishing to threaten or intimidate is against the law in many places for good reason. It is certainly not something that was in any way warranted here, and even if it had been his follow actions were highly inappropriate for someone being “threatened”. Both parties escalated things way beyond reason, however in the realm of who was the bigger ass-hat…the white homeowner/gun toter wins the prize
Thank God it’s not Canada…it must suck to be Canadian.
Is this what we have come to?? Two jack wagons filming each other being jack wagons.
Yep…but I’d rather be the guy with the gun.
You pulled a gun on me! I got you on video!
Bang! Bang!
What video?
Jackwagons were always jackwagons, it’s just now we can see them be jackwagons anytime anywhere on the Internet.
Oh my god the crazy raciss has a gun… So what I’m going to do is, I’m going to taunt him, and do everything I can to escalate tensions. Because since I said “I’m unarmed” guns can’t do anything to hurt me (just like those gun-free signs), and since I’m so trustworthy everyone will believe me when I tell them I’m unarmed.
Two morons, that’s all this is.
The homeowner should’ve minded his own business or called cops from inside his home, or at least concealed the gun, and he REALLY should’ve stayed in his yard (that decision will probably get him some time). The belligerent guy should have acted like he had one tiny little brain cell and left the “racist guy with a gun” alone, and called the cops from the next block or something. I hate the idea that if your having problems in your neighborhood you have to call the cops. But when we have a bunch of CNN brainwashed “Dindu Nuffins” with a death wish running around just looking to be the next martyr, you can’t take the chance of giving the Orwellian ministry of truth someone new to crucify.
On a side note look who was begging for the police to save him, the same type of guy who jeers when cop’s are hit by cars, and sings “deck the halls with rows of dead cops”. Not the gun owner, who was (stupidly) willing to handle himself. It’s so odd that the people who are anti-civil rights for self defense, constantly alienate the very people they absurdly claim are the ones who will “protect us” when we give up our right of self defense.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/04/police-union-protesters-cheered-when-officers-hit-by-car/19929261/
http://youtu.be/X5c2mWY8qpQ
Obama, Al Sharpton, and Eric Holder got their wish. They exacerbated a nice sharp racial divide in America where black and white (or white Hispanic) hate and distrust each other and are ready to go to war which the mainstream media will gleefully cover.
Gotta say that camera guy really looking to engage OC guy (unnecessarily looking for a fight). OC guy showed lots of reserve/patience, but plenty of stupidity by openly racking his slide. Agree with many of the comments that CC would have been the way to go, and explaining to camera guy that regardless of his race, that an uptick in crime in the area, he was only investigating what he thought to be suspicious activity near his home. All that said, I’m surprised that both walked away from this unharmed.
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