Peter in Des Moines writes:
I saw this sign on the door of Jethro’s BBQ today. Jethro’s is a locally-owned chain of BBQ joints in the greater Des Moines area. It’s known nationally for its Adam Emenecker Sandwich, which was featured on “Man vs. Food” and voted by an ESPN readers’ poll to be the 2nd manliest sandwich in America. So what do you think of the sign? If there is such a thing as a pro-2nd Amendment sign that can also be strongly discouraging concealed carry, I’d say that this sign strikes that perfect note. It’s interesting to note that the original Jethro’s BBQ is located in a not-too-nice area of Des Moines. Exactly the kind of place where one would be wise to carry a firearm for defense of self and loved ones. I would welcome your views on the matter. Is this a good sign, or a bad sign from the standpoint of a Person of the Gun?
I would not patronize this eatery……I carry….period
No guns, no money.
Hm.
Well, I don’t imbibe anymore, so it looks like I’m good to tool up.
If that’s supposed to be a compliment (the sign), it’s a back-handed one…
“…..so we ask that ALL our guests and patrons refrain from carrying any firearm or weapon on premises.” So no Geoff PR, you are NOT good to tool up per the sign.
I sure as hell am.
Concealed means concealed.
Signs do not carry force of law in Iowa so all they can do is ask you to leave and then have you charged with misdemeanor trespassing if you refuse. I have carried in a Jethro’s before and will continue to do so. Iowa law has two sections on alcohol and carry; one says that a person can not be “drunk” while in posession of a firearm, meaning .08. The other says “under the influence”, thus leaving it up to officer discretion.
I already have laws governing my ability/inability to drink while carrying and I follow the law, the sign is unnecessary and thankfully unenforceable.
Jethro s can ask all they want ….it’s a free country…..but i will carry when i come in …period
The word “ask” is legalese for “this sign means nothing.” They are permanently pissing of a large number of potential customers for absolutely no reason. Personally, I wouldn’t go there regardless if I were carrying or not.
This post is done in one.
Si, y yo tambien. No cuatro-cinco, no plata.
Yes, and me too. No 45, no silver.
If you drink and drive you get ticketed so instead you hand over the keys to a friend or a loved one or you just don’t drive. the same should be applied to those who have carriers permit the law should state that if you choose to drink you should not be able to carry a firearm.
The sign is just fine. If I choose to come on your property, I will follow your rules. If I don’t wish to follow your rules, I won’t come on your property.
This. Your roof, your rules, but your rules may keep me out from under your roof. It’s quite possible to carry into an establishment serving alcohol and not consume. I don’t care for the sign’s implications that people aren’t responsible for or in control of themselves.
Yea that was my exact thought as well. Its a BBQ stand, NOT a bar.
Claim they are all for “responsible gun owners” then assumes you will not be one. The 2A BUT… is implied.
Do they also assume some of their patrons will drive from their restaurant impaired? Maybe we should “request” they just not serve alcohol at all? After all, I’m all for “responsible use of spirits”, BUT…
Gutless, clueless, and reckless, Manly samitch my a-ss.
True, as far as it goes. However, do you REALLY think that crims will be swayed by politeness? The sentiment is still naive, and possibly dangerous, as the recent bar patron shooter hero demonstrates.
i think they presume that criminals will actually read all of that small print. . . .
I’ve eaten at the Ankeny restaurant several times. Good food. I’ll probably go back despite the sign, but I’ll be packing and they can kiss my ass if they don’t like it.
If they don’t have metal detectors, they aren’t serious.
Even if they had armed security guards screening everyone who comes into the establishment with metal detectors, they still couldn’t keep their patrons from being mugged in the parking lot. Anyway, the sign doesn’t carry the weight of law in Iowa, so all they could do is ask you to leave.
Truth.
Exactly. They are *asking*. Concealed is concealed, and without metal detectors and armed guards, this is simply intended to be eyewash, ignored by POTG and appeasing those who know nothing. As an aside, I’ve been armed drunk, I’ve been armed sober, and I do not surrender my right to self-defense in order to have a beer. One beer, and I will no longer use my firearm to defend YOU! Me is another matter. Accepting the PC *no guns and alcohol* is shooting yourself in the foot. I have had no incidents in over 40 years of carrying, with and without a license (always under 2A, however), with and without alcohol. If you regularly get into fistfights every time you have a beer, you may want to behave otherwise.
Since cars and alcohol don’t mix, we ask that all our guest refrain from driving.
@ John Galt: Perfect!
If I carry, I do not drink. If I have a drink, my wife carries…and she is a better shot than I. If you carry, and you drink alcohol to excess, eventually you will be propaganda material for the anti-2nd amendment folks and a target of ridicule on this site.
larry since youre in texas and i assume you have a CHL as required by state law in texas to carry a weapon concealed you went through the required 10hr course where they cover do’s and do not’s of carrying in texas…
one of which is you do NOT carry if youre drinking and if youre in a place with a 51% sign (usually bars & clubs) you are prohibited by state law from carrying your weapon into such places.
if you ignore these signs and rules and regulations set forth by the state woefully and willingly then you are not only an idiot you are a prime example or the 1% my instructor covered that will eventually get their CHL taken from them and then used by lib-tards to make the rest of us who do abide by the law, rules and regulations set forth by the state miserable.
I have been there. Really depends on which location whether the food is that great. Claxon’s is better in my opinion but I digress. They asked polite but that is all they did. My 38/45/357/.9mm ( 🙂 ) will accompany me despite.
Lots of places out there to eat that want my business. I find lots of reasons to not go to places (price, cleanliness, staff attitude, food quality, etc.) I find this a good reason to “refrain” going to Jethro’s…and I won’t.
Their property their rules. I would have preferred if the sign had read that those carrying guns not consume alcohol on their property.
Agree
+1. Their restaurant, their rules; I’m not obligated to eat – or drink – there.
+1
Exactly!! I mean – we all know consumption of adult beverages causes some benign situations turn ugly – fast. So, this: “We respect your rights to self-defense. But we believe that alcohol and firearms are a dangerous mix. Therefore, we would ask that you not consume alcoholic beverages while here. If you are carrying a weapon and are the designated driver for your party, please inform us of this. All of your non-alcoholic beverages will be on the house.”
It’s a bad sign, full-stop.
This is, even just on the surface, a bad sign simply for the fact that it bans the carriage of guns in and on the establishment.
Technically it doesn’t ban the carry of firearms on the premises because such signs don’t carry the weight of law in Iowa. The most they could do is ask you to leave, and if you refused you could be arrested for trespassing and probably disorderly conduct. But if you carry concealed and no one notices, you’ve broken no law in Iowa.
In MO even if the sign is legal you are guilty of nothing unless you refuse to leave when asked.
and it is only a $100 fine then, assuming the cop feels like writing the ticket
The establishment does not have the no guns allowed sign and this doesn’t carry the force of the law. Basically it just asks people to be responsible. I would have liked it more if he used this phrase instead:
“We ask that all our guests refrain from carrying any firearm or weapon on the premises if they intend to drink alcoholic beverages.”
I agree.
Interesting though, they have no problem if you drink there, then drive. Lots more deaths are caused by drunk drivers than by drunk shooters. Seems to me that if they are concerned that they should stop selling alcohol.
+1 Iowa law states that if your BAC tops .08% your weapons carry permit is no longer valid, just like your drivers license.
That’s the best way I can think of it. While alcohol affects the system, a grown man of adequate health won’t be drunk on a single beer or scotch.
I drink and drive. I also drink and shoot. I just rarely drink to excess. If I can’t find a place to hang up the keys or secure my guns, then it’s just a drink or two and done.
I also look at it like having a gun in a holster on your hip is kind of like having the keys to your car that’s parked outside in your pocket. As long as you don’t get them out and use either one of them there should be no harm no foul. The Iowa law strikes a pretty good balance though IMO.
“Iowa law states that if your BAC tops .08% your weapons carry permit is no longer valid, just like your drivers license.”
Your DL becomes invalid if you top a .08% BAC? Really? Who, then, revalidates it after your BAC goes below that? You or the State of Iowa? Seems to be a bit overly statist-govt situation to me.
IMO, Iowa needs a new legislature or whatever body passed such a law.
‘Seems to be a bit overly statist-govt situation to me.’
As opposed to what? That you can’t go to a restaurant armed if 51% or more of their sales are alcohol? That you can sit at the bar but you can’t drink? Granted, if you think we live in a free country you’re delusional, but the Iowa law is one of the simplest and least statist in the country. The whole firearms code is only 15 pages.
@Rock
Had experience with real life people with a BAC above .08%? I have with hundreds. If you’ve had that much to drink, you are in no condition to safely drive or shoot.
If you’ve had that much to drink, you are in no condition to safely drive or shoot.
True! However, you may be in condition to safely carry, you would know better than others.
Exactly. Basically the sign is just a statement of the owner’s views. You are asked not to carry into their establishment. In terms of my needs, I would interpret that request as a matter of descretion—mine, not theirs. I might carry into their establishment, if I’m not drinking (which is usually) if I think I should for my own safety. I’d make sure my weapon was well concealed and I certainly wouldn’t announce to one and all that I was carrying it. As I write this, I’m thinking of the recent case where a guy was carrying in a bar and successfully defended himself and others against an armed robber who obviously chose the bar because he believed people wouldn’t be armed. The cops are supposedly looking for him. One hopes not very hard.
I boycott all businesses that try this middle of the road approach.
IMO, if they post this sign, they do not support the second amendment. Trying to please all their customers, all the time. They are trying to support their business income.
I’ll make my own BBQ and probably surpass theirs anyway. At least I can feel like they aren’t winning ALL the time. LOL
What do they mean by any weapon, all those glass bottles could be a weapon in the wrong hands, chairs too. Better get rid of all of them just to be “safe”
If good eats and you carry, how about ignoring the sign. Really its none of their business, when it comes to your business.
… in THEIR business, so I disagree.
Then follow the dictates of your conscience. I ignore such signs.
THEIR business is food, not lawful self-protection. If complied with, it sets the precedence that a private entity can dictate what right you have.
So are they asking me or telling me to disarm prior to coming in and having a sandwich and a beer?
Flowery, pedantic and verbose verbiage. Quit being a bunch of pussies and just tell your customers they have to disarm to drink alcohol in your establishment. One sentence; done.
Once again, makes me wonder where they’re stacking the pallets of dead bodies from the endless alcohol-fueled shootings at all the bars and eateries in Pennsylvania. Where it’s 100% legal to get shit-faced and carry around as many loaded guns as you want.
Every time I go there I have a 9mm in my pocket, that sign can suck a dick
LOL – this is the best comment right here.
If the sign can truly do that, it won’t be the BBQ I’ll be going there for.
I like it when comments get right to the point. You could have left out the part about the 9mm!
I think the sign should say something more like “If you choose to carry a gun please refrain from alcoholic beverages.” Or “We prohibit the consumption of alcohol while legally carrying a firearm” or “If you want to drink an alcoholic beverage , please leave your gun at home”
I could respect that more than the sign they currently have
+1. My thought exactly. As to the related questions of whether I would go there and/or pack when I go there in the face of the sign, I guess that would depend on how good the BBQ is, how safe the area is, and how serious the owner is (ie is this just Target CEO weaseling, or does the owner really not want you to come in with a gun, to the point he would ask you to leave if you did so with their knowledge). Mainly how good the BBQ is.
Even though Im diabetic. A good BBQ every now and then is a hard thing to pass up.
These folks just made it a lot easier for me. Plus no stores in Florida sure helps.
You saying there’s no good BBQ here in Florida?
I’ll be happy to supply a list…
It’s for that very reason that I NEVER consume alcohol in any public venue. I will only drink at my home and that’s it. My girlfriend get frustrated sometimes but at the end of the day she understands. As for the sign…what they don’t know won’t hurt them, however let’s say that I do leave my firearm in the car or at home, and I get mugged in there parking lot on the way out. I would hire a good lawyer and hold the restaurant liable due to there gun free zone policy. Unreasonable ? I think not. I’ll just fight liberal logic with liberal logic.
There is no “but” in support of the 2nd amendment. What if I don’t drink? I’m still denied the right to protect myself?
Screw them, they’d have been better if they hadn’t posted any sign at all.
There are not buts in the 2nd amendment, however there are some “unlesses” that apply
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed..,..unless
you’re a convicted felon
deemed mentally defective by a judge
your state constitution otherwise limits that right.
I wish people would quit acting like the 2nd amendment is an absolute right!
Even allowing for a broad interpretation, there are some limits on ALL the rights listed in the Constitution.
Quit pretending otherwise!
The sign “strikes a perfect note” of foolishness. Any person of the gun should not patronize an establishment with such an invitation to robbery and violence on the door. Their right, their risk. It implies that ALL of their customers are irresponsible in the mere presence of alcohol beverages.
I’d call them, ask for the manager, and tell him I would’ve eaten there if not for their stupid sign.
I’d also tell them that if they changed their policy I would be willing to give them a try.
Or, just ask them if they think it will do anything to dissuade criminals from entering armed. Because that sign basically says “All the good guys in here are disarmed, rob at will!”
The mixture of Alcohol and the 1st amendment has gotten more killed more people then the mixture of Alcohol and the 2nd.. and these are rights…
Driving is a privilege, yet, they dont have a problem with driving to the place, drinking, and driving home..
I dont care how polite they say it… telling gun owners to go to hell in a crafty way so they actually look forward to the trip is still telling them to go to hell..
So a big fat NO from me.. id never step foot in the joint.
“…Driving is a privilege, yet, they dont have a problem with driving to the place, drinking, and driving home..…”
Bravo sir. Bravo.
The sign is probably as respectful as it gets, but I’m sure they realize all of the politeness in the world won’t get a concealed carry holder to give up self defense for some food.
I guess it worked though, because I don’t hate them for posting the sign.
.. will criminals respect their wishes? No? Will management be responsible for my safety? No? Then I will respectfully ignore your ‘request’ and CC. I don’t drink outside of my home so they don’t have to worry about drunken shoot’emups ala Old West. From me, anyways.
Gun posession is an enumerated right in the fundemental laws of this nation. Futhermore, that state has made the concealed practice of that law legal. Does someone have the right to nulify that right on ones property? In continuing that thought, wouldn’t they then also have the right to mandate no discission of conservative values while on his property. Would he have the right to not serve someone based on their race? Does the Constitution exist on private property?
Would they have the right to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding?
Not in New Mexico or Colorado, at least. I’m waiting for someone in one of those states to hire a Muslim carpenter to remodel his pig sty, and see how that works out.
Like most of you stated its their place their rules. This is just fine with me but I can deff tell all of you this, even if I would patronize this palce I would deff carry regardless of whatever signage they post. I am a VERY RESPONSIBLE firearm owner and wouldn’t even think of drinking a single alcoholic beverage when I carry. I dont really care how they would word their postings its still anti 2nd A so I urge any and all responsible gun owners / conceal carry folks to simply boycott this establishment….period
I don’t drink, therefore there is no mix of alcoholic beverages and my gun. I would never patronize this establishment.
I carry. And that’s not a legal sign in MO. I probably wouldn’t notice even if was. Boycott isn’t practical anymore unless you’re a one issue voter and even then, there won’t be enough like minded people to make it work. Everyone wants to boycott something so it’s become ineffective. The boycott has become victim to the fractious nature of our country.
Not advocating a boycott. But I won’t support with MY dollars any business that denies my rights. This is a cultural war and I won’t fund the enemy. Period.
Good point. I do try to keep things in mind but there are few places left that someone has told me I shouldn’t patronize. Everybody’s pissed.
Not a legal sIgn In Texas, I would carry. As long as I don’t drInk I would be legal.
That place is probably not a 51% location, but it’d still be worth checking for. I wonder if Stubbs BBQ in Austin is 51%…
Just off the top of my head, I would figure if a BBQ place did most of its business selling booze rather than meat, the BBQ must not be particularly impressive.
I find their request silly as guns do not magically start killing people if there is alcohol in the room. If they are serving alcohol in such a way that someone is going to assault me and I have to draw a firearm (sober) then I don’t want to be there anyway.
I would honor their request and stay away.
Yet cars DO magically start killing people when there is alcohol in the driver.
Management at Jethro’s BBQ almost gets it.
And for all those above who wrote “The sign should have said…” let me point out the blatantly obvious: It didn’t. That’s the way the store’s management wants it, so that’s the way it is. Call the manager (not the underpaid clerk) and tell them how you feel if it upsets you.
Or just leave a comment on their site.
http://jethrosdesmoines.com/contact-us/
just did.
Piddle on the manager, get the word to the owner/s!
My husband and I will no longer be patrons of Jethros….
Screw the 2A stuff. The first photo shows they don’t allow “outside food or drink” ! These nazi bastards aren’t going to tell me if I can bring food into their store !!! Who do they think they are ?
That sign is stupid and insulting. If the owner was truly concerned, the sign would advise visitors not to drink when they carry. But no — that would cost the business money. They want to sell booze — a lot of booze. So, the owner tells patrons to leave their guns at home so that they can spend their money on alcohol. What the owner is saying is “I love your money and I don’t give a sh!t about you.”
F ’em.
Bingo. We’re just a bunch of irresponsible dummies who can’t figure out how to drink responsibly while having a firearm on us. Give me a break.
I agree that guns and alcohol don’t mix.
I carry.
I usually don’t drink alcohol (I’m boring. I prefer iced tea).
They don’t want my money.
I’d respect that and they would get none.
I can agree to a point, but alcohol and armed robbery doesn’t exactly go well together either! Will they provide a sober, armed guard on the premises?
Perfect balance? This is just more idiotic nanny bullshit. Simply being in the same room as a bottle of booze doesn’t suddenly make me an irresponsible moron.
A violent drunk can cause plenty of carnage without a gun. Just stop serving alcohol if you’re so afraid of it, Jethro.
Sorry, no, Jethro’s doesn’t strike the right note. Assuming every patron of their establishment plans to drink past the legal limit tells me two things: I probably would not be comfortable taking my family there to eat (I mean who wants to dine in a place full of a bunch of drunk, rowdy fools) and the food must be terrible if you must be wasted to eat it. Not only that but the parking lot and street around there must be ultra dangerous, what with all the drunk drivers leaving the place.
I’ll just go to a BBQ joint that has good food and respects not only my rights but me as a person and doesn’t automatically assume because they sell alcoholic beverages, that I’m too weak willed to not partake in them every time they’re near.
Hey all Jethros has a fb page. I posted a “review” of their establishment to the managers. You have to put one star to make it post though. May I suggest that more CCW carriers post their reviews of their new sign? I wasn’t belligerent. That will not help the matter but I did post that I was insulted by the assumption that being a ccw carrier I was irresponsible to drink and carry. Check it out and let me know your thoughts. ..
As long as the sign has no force of law, I will either concealed carry anyway, or just not patronize their business. Depends on how much I really want to be there, how often I might be there and how good the food is. If the service is bad or the management has a bad attitude, I will never darken their door again anyway.
Agreed.
Unfortunately for them, that sign meets the requirements for me to conclude that management has a bad attitude.
This whole “guns and alcohol don’t mix” meme needs to stop being promulgated by gun rights supporters. It’s wrong: guns and alcohol mix just fine provided one is responsible. There are many states that allow carry into establishments, and some that allow one to drink while carrying. They don’t have regular incidents of legally-carrying drunks shooting up bars and eateries. I have lived most of my life in states that allow one to carry into a bar and to drink while carrying–it has never been a problem.
Alternate version:
You can drive in, drink six beers, and drive home. You just can’t carry a gun while you drink the beers.
They have a right to require patrons to behave a certain way, but this makes as much sense as dictating my choice of underwear.
That sign reminds of people who say “I believe in the Second Amendment, but…”
I wouldn’t have any sign but if a place feels it must have a ‘gun sign’ why cant it say like ” If you have a firearm on you just please keep it concealed like grown-ups do, this isn’t the GunSmoke saloon where Miss Kitty works and Sheriff Dillon frequents”.
I don’t like that sign one bit; if I liked their food I’d just carry anyway and they’d never know.
If I owned the restaurant and for some unknown reason wanted to post a sign, mine would be similar to the following:
“We respect your natural right to self-defense and your right to carry a firearm, but we believe guns and alcohol don’t mix. We therefore ask you to refrain from consuming alcohol on the premises if you are carrying a weapon. Further, if you identify yourself as carrying a weapon to the waitstaff, soft-drinks are on-the-house.”
It’s just as much their right to not want people on their property with guns as to want to eat elsewhere. See, THIS sign I can actually respect: they have a legitimate reason. It’s other places where the sign is up for no reason that I have a problem with (I’m looking at you guys, every gas station in the state of Mississippi).
I’m sick and tired of politically correct, jump through your ass to make sure no one is offended, double speak. If any business goes out of its way to try to appeal to the insanity of the anti 2nd Amendment crowd, I will go out of MY way to find their competitor(s) and do business with them.
Jethro strikes a note of failure. He’s not exactly asking people refrain from driving to his establishment because obvious cars and alcohol don’t mix either, right? So it’s okay for people to impair their judgement enough to get in their car, drive off and take a few people out on the interstate, is that what we’re suggesting?
Are you sober enough to drive? That’s your call. Sober enough to exercise you 2a right to carry? Weeeellll that makes us just a bit squeamish. After all, those are consequences that could happen here, not later on down the road where we can schluff it off as individual responsibility and wash our hands of the incident.
Hiding behind the moral high ground on one side while undermining it in on the other gains your business zero respect.
I view the sign as trying to play both sides of the field
Dear fellow people of the gun, don’t go all d-bag Stabucks on us. Private property owners have the right to say no just like you have the right not to eat there.
I know I’ll catch heat for this, but I’ll say it anyway.
If Property Owners can infringe on my 2A rights, then they should also have the absolute right to refuse business to any person and be able to state the reason why. Don’t like gays? Or Muslims? Don’t want their business? Say so up front, and the Federal and State governments should have no power to FORCE you to serve them.
BUT! This isn’t exactly the case. Remember the Oregon Cake Crisis? Or how about those states that force businesses to accept concealed carriers no matter what (as in, states where “NO GUNS ALLOWED” signs are only valid on government property)? Exactly. Depending on the state, the Government can stick its red up your white until you’re blue in the face. Discrimination is illegal, as are violations of one’s civil rights. Thus, a blanket law that forces all businesses to accept Concealed or Open Carry (while making it illegal to carry while intoxicated) would and should be made the law of the land. If skin color and race are important, so is the Constitution.
On the other hand, I would disagree with that law very strongly and the implications it makes that an individual that owns property and runs a business can’t also follow their beliefs (political and religious). It could be said that this law would be, in and of itself, an infringement on free speech (a bit of a stretch, but so is the wording that supports the concept of Executive Orders).
So, while I do support business owner’s rights to discriminate against anyone they please, and refuse to serve anyone they please, I think that the hair-splitting (no matter how thick the hair or hare) between sexual orientation, skin color, faith on one side, and the right to keep and bear on the other, is senseless. Ban none or ban everything – one Law to rule them All, but don’t leave people somewhere in the middle where there’s room for misinterpretation and bad blood.
There’s one major distinction between banning guns and refusing to do business with a certain group of people, in many states the ‘no firearms’ signs carry the weight of law and anyone who violates the business’ policy is subject to criminal prosecution. In all the other cases the would be patron sued the business in civil court. The baker in Oregon could not have had the gay couple arrested for walking into his bakery. Now in Iowa you can’t be prosecuted criminally for ignoring the sign, but try filing a discrimination suit against Jethro’s and see how far you get. I’d bet it gets thrown out the second a judge sees it. The reason for this is simple, the vast majority of judges don’t believe in the Bill of Rights, at least not if the amendments conflict with their own opinions. And not just the second.
You’re right though, a little consistency would be nice.
I would classify the situation in New Mexico and Colorado, and come to think of it, New York State, as quasi-criminal, in that the complaint goes to a state agency, which has the power to levy “civil fines” on the “offending” business owner, and, if it’s anything like the state agencies in Texas, perhaps shut your business down if you don’t pay. Not sure how the situation in Oregon played out or how the law works there.
I get it. Just a suggestion. Never heard of them. If I was addicted to it I would conceal and eat there anyway. Not really offended by this sign.
In other words, we claim to love the 2A in hopes that you’ll leave your rights behind and give us your money, but really, we don’t want your evil scary guns on our property.
Well, that’s your right. It’s also my right to never ever set foot on your accursed property.
I hate how they pick and choose things, they have a no smoking sign because Iowa forces them to since 2009. So if the state is in the business of regulating smoking and everything else under the sun from water fountains and handicap entrances, then they mine as well not stop at the lawful carrying of arms.
A couple of differences between the two. First, smoking in public is not a right. No where in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights does it say the right to keep and smoke cigarettes shall not be infringed. Second, if the majority of people find second hand smoke irritating or hazardous to their health the government, representing the majority of the people, does have the right to restrict where smokers can or cannot smoke so that they don’t irritate others. Further, if second hand smoke is scientifically proven to be a health hazard than OSHA has a duty to prevent the exposure of it to employees. Granted, OSHA is one of those agencies I’d love to see disappear, but if it is to exist it shouldn’t ignore some health risks while aggressively pursuing others.
Now the excessive taxation of cigarettes is something I do have an issue with.
What is the point of your question. It’s a matter of people calling themselves the state putting regulations on private property. The constitution was written to limit government (obviously failed). A business doesn’t have to respect that or any other right. Setting fraud aside, if one doesn’t like the conditions of entering private property then don’t enter.
I just find it hypocritical that people accept all rules that are forced on private property at gunpoint but when it comes to people wearing arms, all of a sudden, the state doesn’t force them to allow entry to such people, even though the state regulates EVERYTHING else at the threat of violence.
The Constitution is a document limiting the scope and power of the FEDERAL government. And while most consider the Bill of Rights to apply to the states as well, there have been some blatant exceptions to this, especially where the 2nd Amendment is concerned. IMHO the entire Bill of Rights applies to the states in totality. Still, there is nothing in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights that prevents state and local governments from passing (for instance) noise ordinances, or limits on where you can smoke in public. If 25% of the population is doing something that 75% of the population find irritating the 75% have the right to tell the 25% to go elsewhere to do it. They do not however have the right to tell them they can’t smoke period, or that they have to pay exorbitant taxes for the privilege of doing something they have every right to do in the privacy of their own home, or anywhere where they aren’t bothering anyone else.
I’d also add that I doubt that there’s anyplace in the United States where you could end up in prison for a year or six for smoking where it’s prohibited, once again despite the fact that ‘the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed’.
Like George Bush said, the Constitution is just a God Damn piece of paper. Setting aside that the 14 amendment binds the bill of rights against states, it doesn’t matter anyway. Government as we know it today is a monopoly on violence and they don’t give a flying crap or a rolling donut about words on paper.
If they really respect the second amendment, then perhaps change the sign to ” patrons who are NOT imbibing any alcohol are welcome to carry, but out of respect to those who are nervous around firearms and to prevent any altercations, we respectfully request that armed options please carry discreetly. We hope you have a good time and enjoy your meal.”. IF the establishment posted a sign along those lines I would eat there, otherwise the get the. “No Guns=NO MONEY” card.
That sounds like an acceptable compromise.
They are trying to have It both ways. Pretending to be pro constitution and then deny your rights. All they’re missing is plea that “it’s for the children”. Best thing to do is be sure they know why you don’t eat there. Myself, I do not drink when I am Carrying.
If your going to be drinking then yes leave all weapons out. If your just going to eat I’d have mine I don’t care what they think.
To me, this sign means nothing and if I was carrying and I wanted to enter, I would. I ignore the legal gunbuster signs as well (the sign pictured is not a legal no gun sign in my state and would not carry weight of the law) but I do not ever consume alcohol while carrying or even have a loaded gun in my car if drinking. My CCW instructor was a lawyer and he said that he could probably get you off any carrying related charges (no discharge of gun) as long as you were not drinking. You consume alcohol and carry, you’re screwed.
Who goes out to eat BBQ anyway?
So this is what Jethro did with his sixth grade education?
I would be Ok with, if you’re carrying, don’t touch alcohol….but if you want alcohol, you shouldn’t be carrying…not rocket science…same in that if you want to have a drink, you shouldn’t be driving. If I have a gun on my hip, I drink water and soda and such… If I want alcohol I need to leave the gun at home…that’s reasonable as carrying a gun requires 100% sound judgement. If I want alcohol, to have a gun on me is irresponsible and impairs my ability to make a sound decision. Just like driving a car…but I’d argue even further than a car. Your blood alcohol level needs to be 0.00000000000000000000000000000000% to have a gun in your possession…
We support the Second Amendment, BUT N.I.M.B.Y.
Jethros is my hometown bbq joint. So is Smokey D’s. I will go to Smokey D’s.
If they see someone getting drunk it is their duty (in most states their LEGAL duty) to cut them off. Nice people who aren’t drunk don’t usually do stupid things with guns. This leaves three possibilities:
1.) Their clientele may not be nice people and may do stupid things with guns while sober.
2.) They serve people who are dangerously drunk who might do stupid things with guns.
3.) They are worrying over nothing.
As for me, I can drink without getting drunk, and I can get drunk without shooting people. If I’m ever near Jethro’s I’ll keep walking.
Also, I think they forgot about designated drivers.
If you can’t responsibly carry a handgun after consuming a drink, then you probably aren’t responsible enough to carry a handgun sober.
And there’s a great many states that have shown that allowing firearms in establishments that serve booze is not the end of the world, as CCW holders are an incredibly responsible bunch.
Jethro’s won’t see my hard-earned $.
John
Does he ask his patrons to not drive to his restaurant? I mean he does want them to mix alcohol and driving, right? Since he doesn’t trust the patrons to decide if they drink or how much if they carry, shouldn’t he tell them not to drive too?
Boil it down, they both have the right to ask and have the right to refuse service to anyone. Besides, I’d argue they have legal responsibility to ensure guns and alcohol don’t mix, just like bars can be held culpable for the actions of someone they send someone off knowing that person is beyond the legal limit. I also can understand “But I don’t drink!” or “I can handle myself and my firearm!” sentiments. Problem is, you (the hypothetical “you”) don’t represent everyone, and it only takes one asshole to ruin someone’s day, possibly ending it for good. I see no reason justifying the risk. At the end of the day, you can leave it in your car.
Then why not just confiscate all the guns nationwide and be done with it? If we’re going to take the position that because some people might commit crimes, like carrying a firearm while intoxicated, we must then ban everyone from carrying because they too might do something, then just collect them all.
After all, someone might murder someone with a gun, so clearly the rest of us should be pre-punished for someone else’s criminal potentiality, right? It’s just asinine.
Really, by your reasoning, all gunowners should be flagged at all liquor stores, grocery stores, and bars and prevented from ever purchasing alcohol. After all, they have guns at home and we can’t risk them being intoxicated in their own homes in the presence of firearms. They’re guaranteed to go on a murderous shooting spree, don’t you know?
The thing is, you’re already anti-gun at heart. The proof? The one guy ruining it scenario you cite is that of an armed drunk shooting patrons. So guns should be left outside. Well. Why couldn’t the relevant scenario be the knife wielding or barefisted brawler who beats unarmed patrons to death, which would justify bringing firearms i.side with you?
By that logic, why don’t we just give everyone a firearm, regardless of background, mental state, or age. Everyone gets a gun at birth, and if people die, oh well. That’s the price of freedom baby!!!
Whenever you hear, “I support the 2nd Amendment….BUT”. Shut them up, because “No they don’t”.
Responsible gun ownership is exemplified by concealed carry holders. Even in bars, in several states where it’s legal. So, this BBQ joint needs to “man up” and remove the gun free safety zone sign.
I simply don’t spend money anyplace that posts No guns signs. Period, no matter how good their BBQ is.
What perfect balance? I’m reading weasil worded support for the Second Amendment, combined with mealy mouthed trepidation about barring firearms. I’d have more respect if they were honest and straight forward and just said “Guns suck. Bring them and you’ll be prosecuted for trespassing!” At least that’s taking a firm stand and not dancing around like a whirling dervish.
These people don’t need to wade into this debate with half ass, half hearted, half measures. It just irks everyone and pleases no one. I’d walk in, advise the manager quietly and succinctly why I’m offended by their stance, then leave and never return.
no guns no business I wouldn’t go there if they gave me food for free
IMO, it boils down to this, if you want to have your right to carry respected, you need to respect the rights of others. This includes the right of a business owner to keep guns out of their establishment. If you want their BBQ, then great, don’t go in with a gun. If having a piece of iron on your hip is more important than BBQ great don’t go in. Bottom line, don’t be a dick.
The owner politely requested guns stay out of their business. So eat there or don’t. Just don’t be a dick about your gun rights, it just adds fuel to the anti 2A crowd. Belligerent gun owners make everyone who owns a gun look bad.
Personally, if I don’t feel like I’m being disrespected, and their food is good enough, I’ll leave my gun in the car and eat the food. If they’re not disrespecting me, I won’t disrespect them, that’s how you have a polite and CIVILIZED society.
Equivocation, for the lose. :p
Huh?
I ate there yesterday. I carried. I had a beer. everything was fine. *shrug*
A BBQ sandwich contains alcohol?
Alcohol and firearms don’t mix. Well, that’s mostly true. But are customers stirring their mixed drinks with their 6″ Colt Peacemaker? Are they engaging in drunken “shoot the dartboard” contests? Then a much simpler solution is: “Please do not consume alcohol while armed.” This IS a BBQ place, right, not a saloon?
Do what you want…. I’m just a sign.
To answer the question: no the folks over at jethro’s do not strike the right note. Seems to me they are projecting their idea of responsibility onto their customers rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt that if they are carrying to take it easy. Doesn’t sound like they deserve my dollars.
So you’re saying that CDW holders have no responsibility? Or in the case of open carriers, they have no responsibility? Who does have responsibility then?
Hell I’m from Texas, every time I eat bbq I am carrying. Next thing you know, if someone serves to much tater salad some liberal is going to cry about carbohydrates. I shake my head at least 20 times a day.
I have never been to a Jethro’s, now probably won’t go since I refrain myself from going to places that don’t support the 2nd ammendment. The only places that I go that I don’t carry is where the LAW says I can’t, such as the Courthouse, public schools/school property etc…
That’s too bad, I was really looking forward to their new Bacon, Bacon restaurant in West Des Moines.
It’s their place so they can do what they want.
But so can I. Like keep walking……
The phrase everyone is jumping through their asses not to say is quite simple.
“Don’t piss on my head and tell me it’s raining.”
Jethro can go fuck himself. If my family’s safety isn’t worth his non-existent risk from my carrying a weapon, then he doesn’t deserve a penny of my money. Let him make his living off the business he does with the vegetarian leftists who demand no-guns-allowed signs in shops and restaurants.
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