School Shooting Florida nikolas cruz
Nikolas Cruz (Amy Beth Bennett/South Florida Sun-Sentinel via AP, Pool)

The judge also said the plaintiffs are relying on too many “what if” questions to build a solid legal claim for damages.

“There is no foundation for the argument that if Cruz had been sent to a different program, and if he had been treated as a higher threat years before the incident, and if he had been criminally charged years earlier so he’d have been convicted and could not buy or own a gun, and if he had never been permitted to attend Marjory Stoneman Douglas, then he would not have been on this campus and would never have committed the crime,” the ruling said.

— Judge: District Had No Duty to Flag Danger From Student in Parkland Shootings

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56 COMMENTS

  1. if he had never been permitted to attend Marjory Stoneman Douglas

    Yeah, pretty sure that if he hadn’t been permitted to attend MSD he wouldn’t have gone in there with a gun.

  2. Acknowledging the problem early probably would have avoided this altogether.

    PS: The new format blows, hurts my eyes terrible, tends to bury new articles in the divided home menu.

    • “Acknowledging the problem early probably would have avoided this altogether.”

      In a perfect world, perhaps. But in reality? What, an new slew of “Violence Warning Orders”, or some such rot?

      Just imagine what Hell Schumer and Pelosi could whip up…

      • The Obama (in)justice compartment had a policy of withholding federal funds from and taking other action against any police agency that arrested a disproportionate number of blacks and hispanics. If he had been white or asian then he would have been in the system well before he bought a gun or committed mass murder.

        Of course, as we have seen from MANY others, being in the system may not have been enough to get him into NICS as a prohibited person. Cho at V Tech, the Texas church shooter, Dylan Roof, and many others were prohibited persons but were never entered into NICS.

        • The perp was a time-bomb that slipped through a whole lot of hands. Frankly whoever lured morons into hanging up criminal inviting Gun Free Zone Signs is responsible and should face execution.

        • Hey Crimson, saw your comments on that other site regarding the Star BM and your avatar.

          My very first pistol was a Star BM, retired from the Spanish police force and imported to the USA. Loved it, sold it to a relative and regretted it. My father’s first was also a Star BM, which he kept NIB and eventually gave to me with under 500 rounds shot thru it total. Its now my favorite, and I’ll keep it forever.

      • Perhaps you’re viewing this as an extreme one way or the other theory.

        Much like Sandy Hook,

        Known prior problems were swept under the rug, they knew he had issues, wasn’t quite right, had tendencies that mirrored known violent offenders previously.

        This is what I mean. I’m not saying to create new laws, but we need to stop pretending mental illnesses do not exist.

        I always get a lot of complaints about thinking this way but we shrug off far too many abnormalities and justify it by saying “well that is normal?”
        We have massive groups now who don’t know their gender, not sure of their sexuality, cannot function in society because they feel “different”.
        But we say its all ok because people are just different. Everything is ok.
        Eventually some of these OK things develop into eh… maybe not ok…
        Now pedophilia is trying to jump on the normal bandwagon, love is love… yea….uh…
        Maybe isolating your kid in the basement to color and play video games because he’s incredibly anti social and freaks out the neighborhood should be a beginning sign.
        Repeated visits by the police for acting out behavior should be pointed out.

        Instead its “lets tuck this away and pretend it doesn’t exist”

        School gets shot up, now no one knows why.

        • I think it was the “not my job or responsibility” syndrome that affects government workers. Doing something felt like too much work so it best to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

    • May we have a survey for this new format? Let your readership provide you decent feedback?

      Thank you.

      • Dear Coca-cola Company, I am writing to you to complain about your reformulated “new Coke”…. I don’t like it and don’t know why you changed your recipe. It tastes funny, and don’t tell me it might be the Rum I’m putting in it.Bring back the old Coke, or I’ll change to Pepsi forever !!! Thank you, Pb

        • Because some of us are old enough to remember Coca-Cola’s infamous (and financially implosive) debacle of the ’80s when some mindbright in charge decided the idea of retiring their tried-and-true formula and replacing with an inferior one was the way to go.

          Big, immediate backlash. Many customers – including myself – stopped drinking Coke altogether and have never gone back. Actually, since then I’ve stopped drinking sodas completely.

          As far as this new format, it has tarnished the luster of TTAG. For a long time, it has been my #1 go-to source for gun related news, and a daily place to visit in the morning. But I’ve now removed it from my Top Four sites and am already visiting less frequently. If this new format persists, I’ll probably drop to only once per week, same as Ammoland and TheGunFeed, etc.

          The format was easy to follow, and the comments section was one of the highlights of my day. Always kept TTAG open in the background at work. No longer.

          Very sad to see another good site go.

  3. That was probably the best outcome in that ruling.

    Here’s why –

    Imagine the opposite outcome, that the school had such a ‘duty’, the nightmare that would unleash. And how Leftist supposed ‘lawmakers’ would respond with all kinds of liberty-threatening edicts…

    • I actually agree with your thinking on this. If the responsibility is place on them they will absolutely swerve to the maximum level on correcting this. We see daily examples of educational stupidity and knee jerk reactionism every day in the news.

      I hate it but that is the outcome if the verdict were different. I still feel “people” involved should be punished though.

  7. Damn Leftist judges. You got to think they condone, encourage thru inaction, this type of behavior. As long as the elite are safe, screw the rest of society.

  8. Not surprising at all. The government, except in very limited cases, has no duty to protect you. Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) synopsis can be viewed at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales or just search “No duty to protect” in Duck Duck Go.

    Funny thing is, if you arrested they have duty to protect you. They also have a duty to protect certain political figures like the governor and the mayor.

    • Ditto. Utterly unsurprised by the result, although this judge appears to have gone a different route by basing his decision on a lack of forseeability as the basis for finding no duty. Typically, public entities are not held liable to any particualr individual or group of individuals absent the express assumption of responsibility for that person or persons’ welfare.

  9. I took a minute (OK, ten) to read the decision. The headline grossly misrepresents the judge’s decision. To boil it down in simple language, the judge said the complaining families (actually their attorneys, but we know all the legal vultures pretend the attorneys are just repeating their client’s position) are presenting way too many “what if” scenarios. The judges order does not address the specific duty of the school district to tell students that Nikolas Cruz was crazy and was coming to gun them down. What she does say is that the school had no way to know specifically what Cruz was doing.

    That is very different from claiming the school district has no duty to warn students. I really dislike dishonest reporting. I think it is even more egregious, to the point that some media should be held financially liable) when they report one thing and are so convinced no one will bother to look, that they even include a link that could lead directly to the proof that they lied!

    And YES, the new forum is very, very bothersome!

    • AND, clicking on “do not sell my information” at the bottom of the page now results in.. “OOPs… error 404, (does not exist)” . Bye bye for now. pb

    • The school had every reason to know Cruz was a danger. He had committed at least two assaults we know of while a student. His ex-girlfriend reported to the school resource officer that he had threatened to kill her and her new boyfriend and sent them pictures of his guns. Plus it was common knowledge amongst students and staff the kid was psycho.

      They chose not to act because the school had a policy of burying issues involving non-Anglo students. Though one can’t underestimate the role laziness, stupidity and moral cowardice. Had he been treated as the degenerate he was by school and legal system, this could have been avoided.

      The judge’s ruling is simply the State protecting the State. Of course, they will be more than happy to shift the burden onto the citizenry through curtailing our civil liberties.

  10. i remember the day after it happened there was a reporter interviewing a female student there who said that as soon as they heard the first gunshots they all knew exactly who it was
    the kids knew
    so the parents knew
    and the teachers and administrators knew
    and the cops knew
    but nobody did anything
    its the first role of government…we the people…in order to form a more perfect union…ESTABLISH JUSTICE
    they cant have it both ways here:
    they cant force background checks on us to the nth degree while at the same time doing everything in their power to keep people who should be IN the criminal justice system OUT of it thereby basically guaranteeing that they pass a background when they shouldnt
    ferns law: democrats dont actually believe in anything that they preach to you about
    all they care about is leveraging devisive and failed ideologies into governmental and bureaucratic power power for personal gain

  11. Remember the Government is not liable for your safety. I believe this is the almighty get out of liability for the Government.

  13. Not surprised at all. Remember the people the left say will protect you have zero obligation to do such.

    Besides this pols will blame guns because they know people would be pissed if they realized the government had no responsibility yet skimmee tax dollars at an increasing rate.

  14. And the government can order the police to stand down. It’s now official. You don’t get a warning of possible danger or the cops when you want them. But you have to pay your taxes. if you don’t the police will arrest you. But people will continue to vote for these Politian’s who support this stuff. Because the Politian’s are giving them things like, “free healthcare”. They give them “free medical marijuana”. They give them “free college tuition”. They support gay marriage and at the same time support paying a woman who has 5 kids from 5 different men, to not get married. They support “free” government funded abortions.

    Most voters do want the government in their bedroom and every room in the house. And then in every other room in private buildings.

    • Think about this. Now the Socialist wing of the Democrat party is purposing $3000+ of Our tax dollars as Covid Relief to each child in a family. That Baby Mama you referenced now gets $15000 of “free money” plus all the other tax payer benefits she is already taking advantage of.
      P.S. Format is livable…The Font Fucking Sucks…

  15. “And in order to get all this “free stuff”, you just have to give up your guns rights.”

    Nope; not sufficient. You give up your rights protected by the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments.

    Your rights under the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, not being precisely enumerated, are granted at the convenience of Government.

  16. It does not matter to me either way if their was or was not any legal requirements. Ya don’t take the job and just stand there while helpless people are killed.

    • You looking at this from some outdated morality point of view. You can take a government job and not have to perform. Like a private sector worker would have to do. You need to change your moral point of view. Seriously. If you want to fit into the NWO. New World Order.

      Thanks to president Kennedy, who signed the executive order, allowing government workers to unionize. Now you can’t fire any government worker.

  17. The government seems to have no duties and endless authority. I’m struggling to figure out why we need it, in its current incarnation, in the first place.

  18. “…but we need to stop pretending mental illnesses do not exist.”

    Russia taught us the mental illness is in the eye of government.

  20. Ya don’t take the job and just stand there while helpless people are killed.

    LOL. Read the LEO posts on arfcom. They disagree. They didn’t sign up to take a bullet. Law enforcement isn’t the military.

    • The police can and do, refuse to die for you. They want to go home to their family too. On the other hand, it was my job, as a soldier, to kill as many of the enemy as possible. And getting shot was an understanding I had. That Might happen.

  25. Had he been treated as the degenerate he was by school and legal system, this could have been avoided.

    You just validated Red Flat laws: pre-crime punishment. Red Flag laws remove “laziness” from the list of excuses available to law enforcement for not taking proper steps. With Red Flag laws, police have no decision to make, and they cannot held responsible for not preemptively taking action. The blame for action/inaction is transferred to the judge. The credit for treating a degenerate so he/she/it cannot go on a deadly rampage goes to the enlightened, prescient, woke people who put the Red Flag in place. “If it saves only one.”

  26. I’m going to preface this by acknowledging the fact that some people on site cast a jaundiced eye on any discussion involving healthcare and I can’t blame them. That being said, the fact that monsters like this child and others, who are/were clearly violent and regularly went without supervision speaks volumes about how our current model of mental healthcare doesn’t work. A part of me believes that regardless if they were flawed, maybe state asylums really did provide a measure of protection to the public against people who can’t be trusted to function in society and that for we are less for not having them.

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