Kansas Legislature Overrides Governor’s Veto, Lowers Age for Concealed Carry to 18

1. I’m going to get a lot of hate for this but…does anyone else remember being a complete knucklehead with little to no self-awareness at the age of 18? Or is that just me? I feel conflicted about this law.

   • The Border Patrol hires people as young as 18 and not only can they carry anywhere, but they can also fly armed on commercial aircraft.

     • “Border Patrol hires people as young as 18 and not only can they carry anywhere, but they can also fly armed on commercial aircraft.“

       So you’re saying that the border patrol hires people 18 years old, hands them firearms immediately and lets them carry them without any training, discipline or supervision?

       That’s amazing!

       • By the time I was 18 I had ten years of firearms training ranging from formal ( Boy Scouts, hunter’s safety) to informal(parents, uncles, freinds of the family- many with military experience) had participated and won numerous shooting competitions. Considering the numbers I was competing against I was far from unique.

       • You mean an 18 yo can vote with no training, discipline or supervision?

         Amazing.

       • Misdirection, deflection and lies – the Progressive Trifecta.

         Ur such a Schmendrick!

       • Freedom requires risk. Without risk, freedom is dumbed down to nothing but limited permission.

     • I had a driver’s license at age 16. A car is far more dangerous than a pistol.

       Kansas, Oklahoma,. Missouri, and Arkansas are kinda awesome these days!

       • Not Kansas, Kansas sucks.
         It’s no place for a New Yorker or Californian to live.
         Bad food, no beaches, unfriendly people, nothing to do but watch cows eat the grass.
         Tornadoes, bad ones, steaming hot in summer, ice cold in winter. Everybody wants to move but can’t afford to, it’s bad I tell yah.

       • @possum

         Thanks for the guffaw!

         Same spiel that I give out-of-staters…except I substitute howling blizzards for tornadoes.

   • Just because you were an idiot at 18 doesn’t mean everyone was/is.
     Shit, I witness the asinine antics of people in their 40’s and 50’s everyday.

     • AMEN!

   • Many moons ago Unk decided he needed me to wear a green outfit. Since Unk still allows 18 year olds to join the service my feeling is if you are old enough to serve you should have all the rest of the rights and responsibility of adulthood too.

     • From your mouth to G_d’s ear…

       Montana has had 18 yo CWP’s for years…that’s the biggest reason that some Blue States, ie. Washington, doesn’t offer reciprocity to us even though we recognize their permit.

     • That telling them!

     • Hell I was 17 when I joined. My mom had to sign a waiver so I could go learn how to shoot full auto so I could kill commies.

       • “I could go learn how to shoot”

         So you’re saying this new Kansas law requires the same level of training, discipline and supervision you received in the military?

         That’s amazing!

       • Same here, split training basic so I could finish high school.

       • Miner,
         Nope. I had been handling firearms for at least 10 years before I got to Basic and qualified expert thank you very much. I just had never had the opportunity to shoot anything with a giggle switch. The only training I required was to look at the safety selector and rotate it to the 3rd position. Some of us are not sheltered city folk or new age lazy ass country kids and don’t need the nanny state to “help” us with every single life decision. Little did I know back in ’87 that the commies I would need to fight were right here in the USA.

       • Miner the level of discipline and training for military or several federal law enforcement agencies re firearms can be accomplished by age 12 through involved parents or the boy scouts. I get you are trying to push your views but military training is nothing too special and leo training is only marginally more involved for the minimum standards (individual agencies will vary of course). Bring back rifle clubs in schools and we are more than halfway to your standards.

       • No, the military standard was far below the standard I expected and had received from private individuals beforehand. However, individuals should have to demonstrate nothing to the state to bear arms, because the state does not grant that right whatsoever.

   • I get where you’re coming from, but the constitution guarantees rights to everyone, whether they are a knucklehead or not. Responsible parenting, safety training, and a wider culture that respects guns but doesn’t fear them are how you address your concern.

     • ^ This!

       Well said napresto. I tip my hat to you fine sir or ma’am.

   • Bobski,

     Speaking more directly to your concern, anyone age 16 or older can carry handguns in public openly or concealed without any government vetting or licensing in the state of Vermont since, well, forever. And yet we do not hear about any instances where a 16 year-old person in Vermont picks up a handgun and starts acting stupid.

     Well over 20 years ago, I carried a handgun on my hip when I was deer hunting in the woods at age 16. I never had the slightest inkling to do anything stupid. I simply carried it as a backup in case my shotgun failed. It never left that holster on my hip and I never fired it in the woods beyond deliberate and responsible target practice at paper targets and empty soup cans.

   • If they can be trusted not to drive the nation off a cliff at the voting booth, a concealed handgun is a trifling matter by comparison.

     • AMEN

       • ChrisTy says:

         “Ammiano was instrumental in getting rid of San Francisco’s High School competitive .22 cal rifle teams“

         Oh yes, I have so much in common with a Democratic politician from San Francisco, you are such a shrewd judge of humanity!

         Regarding the dangers of voting, one person cannot bring about the death of anyone with their one vote. On the other hand, one person with a firearm can bring about the death of one or more humans with their individual actions.

         Sure, a misinformed population can elect a despot, just look at 2016 in the United States. But we all know that requires millions of people acting in concert to bring about the tragedy, it is laughable to suggest that one vote has the lethal power of individual firearms ownership.

         If that were the case, no one would need a gun, they could just defend themselves with their vote.

         Apparently no one on this list is willing to follow that course.

     • I really don’t think the voting comparison is valid.

       With the vote, one person cannot cause the death of another, it’s a simple as that.

       “The only training I required was to look at the safety selector”

       I would rather that those who carry guns in public spaces have a bit more training on the legal obligations and responsibilities of armed citizens.

       The military offers exactly 0 training in civilian ownership, possession and employment of weapons in the public spaces of America.

       False equivalence abides on TTAG…

       • Congratulations, the only thing you got correct is your comment:

         “False equivalence abides on TTAG…”

         You are the Master [sic] of false equivalence on TTAG…it’s as simple as that.

       • You could have stopped at ” I really don’t think”

       • With the vote, many people can cause the deaths of millions of people. An private citizen with a gun is trifling in comparison.

       • “With the vote, one person cannot cause the death of another, it’s a simple as that.”

         On the contrary, voting can cause death on a grand scale, and I exempt no one. I voted for George Bush twice, and therefor bear some responsibility for the war in Iraq. I’m not going to coulda, woulda, shoulda it after the fact. I believed that it was the lesser of two evils when I voted for him and it got people killed. The fact that our presidential elections have been transformed into a enormous quadrennial trolley problem doesn’t change the fact that they get people killed in great numbers. The only questions are where and who and how many.

       • We all know left wingers like you have never supported 2A education for children. You are just lying again.

         “Ammiano was instrumental in getting rid of San Francisco’s High School competitive .22 cal rifle teams, and worked to put an end to the junior ROTC program in San Francisco’s High Schools. Ammiano supported the ban on allowing gun owners to carry an unloaded gun in public. “Whether a gun is loaded or not, it’s still an act of intimidation and bullying,” Ammiano said.”

         https://calwatchdog.com/2013/01/29/anti-gun-lawmakers-lead-hearing-today/

       • The state does not in any fashion grant the right to bear arms, there should be no duty to demonstrate anything whatsoever to the state. Individuals should gain knowledge and proficiency when taking on the responsibility of being armed in public, but have no fiduciary duty to demonstrate anything to any government.

   • Where is the limit then? 21? 30? 40? I see people I would probably not trust with a gun every day of all ages, and I am not talking about nutjobs or gang bangers more like “law abiding citizen” but they seem on edge, slow, too unaware of their surroundings, too aggressive/confrontational, and so on. That’s where good parenting pays, when the kid/teen grew up around firearms, understanding the importance of safety, of avoiding confrontations, why/how/when you should draw, etc. Besides if the gov can trust them at 18 to give them a weapon and send them oversees, I surely want 18 year old young adults to be able to carry legally.

   • I started carrying all kinds of guns at 17. It was called “The Military”.

   • Maybe the law should be you are an adult at the age of 21, but if you petition the state you can be adult at 18. An 18 yo who has a job and an apartment(and is maybe starting a family) is an adult in my book. The kid that goes to community college and plays video games in his basement room is not an adult, but the state has to recognize that at 21 he is.

     • Why isn’t the kid in college not an adult? (studying what? Does it matter? What if it’s a much-glorified STEM discipline? Does that offset the video games?)

       Does a kid who works at McDonald’s instead of earning a degree (but also plays games) count as an adult? Why?

       Here’s a head scratcher… I’m a college professor. I play video games often! So am I not an adult? (I suppose my age gives me a pass… or maybe it just makes me more of a man-child!)

   • I dunno – maybe joining the Navy gave me some self awareness that I may not have had. I hope that all of us continue to “grow up” throughout our lives. Nowadays, I think anyone under the age of 30 is a vacuous pinhead, but that’s only because I’ve continued to develop far beyond 30.

     Now, back to rights . . . if you’re old enough to serve, you’re old enough to be called a man (or woman). End of discussion.

   • I understand your concern, but I think that if they are trained and pass the background check, they should be allowed to carry. I don’t know about your state, but in Illinois the CCL instructor can fail someone they think is not capable enough to carry a gun. And let’s face it, todays teenagers are much more sophisticated than they used to be. If they can vote, they can get a CCL with training. We let them drive a car when they are 15 with a teacher, and at 16 with a license. But they are trained!

     • “I understand your concern, but I think that if they are trained and pass the background check, they should be allowed to carry.“

       I completely agree!

       • Of course you do…his statement coincides with your desire for the State to set “training” standards to “allow” people to exercise a Right.
         Not that your Progressives / Democrats don’t continually move (or even abolish) those training standard goalposts at their convenience or whim.

       • “Of course you do…his statement coincides with your desire for the State to set “training” standards“

         It’s not just me, that pesky old constitution requires Congress to prescribe and enforce discipline for the militia, both organized and unorganized.

         I mean, if following the United States Constitution is even important to you…

         Personally, I think Congress should do a better job of disciplining the militia.

   • “does anyone else remember being a complete knucklehead with little to no self-awareness at the age of 18? … I feel conflicted about this law.”

     It’s called “projection.” It’s probably the most common invalid argument used by the gun-haters.

     There are most certainly people who are sufficiently self-aware that they are not responsible enough to carry a gun. Good for them, if they don’t think they should, then they probably shouldn’t. The problem is that many of these people cannot figure out that their own weakness does not necessarily apply the rest of us. So they conclude that if THEY are unsafe with a gun, so must be everyone else. It’s faulty thinking, well covered in the field of psychology, and applying to a number of different areas of life.

     • Responsibility is hard and scary for some so obviously nobody can handle it does seem to be the thought process for a lot of arguments regarding liberty.

   • I had a full time job an was living on my own by the time i was 17 myself. Of course I’ve also know people that were in their late 20s that acted like they’re still in grade school. I don’t really know if there is a perfect answer here. But I’m always going to err towards liberty anyway, so if they can go through the training then I support it. Some people are going to screw this up, but there is always going to be the occasional idiot that get’s through the system anyway.

   • I was in Vietnam at 18 and a Sgt at 19. I followed rules of engagement and expected my squad, 20 and younger, to do the same.

     • “I followed rules of engagement and expected my squad, 20 and younger, to do the same.“

       So did you magically become aware of the R0E when you turned 18?

       Or did the military spend months training you on the ROE, as well as responsibilities and proper employment of your weapon?

       As squad leader, did you continually train and supervise your men on the proper employment of their weapons?

       Or did the army just pass out the M-16s and say “go to it, tiger!”

       • I was trained by the Army and so was my squad. I was trained to evaluate the situation and have an appropriate response. That is the same training CCW holders get. It’s not rocket science.

   • How many of us were knuckleheads at age 21?

   • I couldn’t say if it’s just you, but it is certainly not me. I was carrying my .22 rifle down the street and through the neighborhood to the woods to go shooting before I could drive, which was at 15.

     • If you can serve in US Armed Forces at 18 yrs of age, you should be able to own your gun at that age too.
       I was shooting my 22 at age 13. Got it for Christmas AAMOF.
       Had a red ryder BB gun at age 7.
       I don’t see what the big deal is about, so long as you receive proper training from an adult.

2. These knuckleheads already vote on running the country and serve in our military. Tying the voting age to the carry age is a GREAT idea. When the Democrats talk about lowering the voting age to 16, just remind them that guns will go with it. That should take the wind out of their sails

3. I’m okay with this law. They still have to get a permit there in order to carry. Somebody who will see that step through is likely at a level higher than a knucklehead. 18 year old people can already have a rifle, a car, sign a contract, buy a house if they have money. They are adults according to the law. I’m more worried about the young adults and those under 18 who are carrying stolen guns, or black market guns and going around and trying to prove they are men to their gangs and such.

   • AH! So, to simplify that, you are worried about people who are committing crimes.

4. All this really means is that parents NEED to step up and help their children grow up.

5. The only litmus test for me is this: if you are old enough to be drafted into, or enlist in the military and possibly die for your country, you should get all the civil benefits as well.

   And while I’m at it… The two biggest shameful and continuous things I hate about my country are: 1) they horrendous medical care for veterans [I’m looking at you V.A. & every single President & Congress that has sat on their hands], and 2) the complete failure of a national mental health program [and that extends into the V.A. also] for every citizen.

   I thank you all for that therapeutic mini-rant.

6. Before 1968 a 16 year old could buy a long gun without their parents permission. And you had to be 21 years old to vote. Children carried their guns everywhere with them. Including to High School and college. Some schools allowed students to store their guns, for the day, on campus. Usually in a closet. And the world was wonderful back then.

   In 1971 the voting age was lowered to 18.

   • btw
     We also had back then 2A education in schools. So the kids learned about gun safe handling skills, and firearms discipline, BEFORE they turned 16 years of age.

   • Chris T in KY,

     My memory is a little bit (okay, a LOT) fuzzy: I could swear that I purchased my Marlin Model 60 semi-automatic rifle chambered in .22 LR when I was 16 years-old and I don’t think my parents were at the store with me when I purchased it. I don’t remember filling out a Form 4473, either. While that occurred a very long time ago, it was well after 1968. Could that possibly be correct? Or did the Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibit stores from selling a rifle to a 16 year-old without his/her parents present?

     • I think maybe some of that was store owner’s discretion. I bought my first deer rifle from a sporting goods store in ’72, at age 16. Walked in, asked to look at a couple rifles, settled on the Winchester 94, laid down my cash ($74 plus 6% sales tax). Cashier filled out the reciept – and only then did the manager ask me to have my dad come in to pick it up.

       Note that I did not say this was my first gun purchase. I already owned three rifles purchased from private individuals. This was my first purchase from a firearms dealer. My only previous interaction with a licensed dealer, was to have a gunsmith to replace a firing pin.

   • Back when we had freedom in the United States. Many privately owned a gun stores would ignore the federal laws. Because they knew you and they knew your parents. So it would not surprise me if responsible kids were buying guns.

     Also before computers and the internet felons were buying guns “legally” all the time in stores.

     Also I know for a fact that you were able to buy guns and, mail them to your friends, and family members all the way into the 1990s.

     And I won’t say how I know that as a fact.
     (Smile)

7. Message from Legislature to Governor: FU, beyotch.

   I’m Ralph, and I approve of this message.

   • I’m Ing, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

8. Kansas is constitutional carry. No permit needed

   • Time out, then what is this article about?

9. So what is her response to being kicked in the ——- and being overridden? Is this where she’s busy and “just haven’t had time” to make a comment?

10. Does not matter If you are 18 or 108. Misuse a firearm and someone is injured or dies and good guys with guns will come knocking …and sometimes they don’t bother to knock.

11. So, did the Govenor follow Dorothy and Toto back to Kansas? Maybe we should give back her sister’s ruby slippers.

12. In Walnut Ks. everyone is allowed to carry a gunm no matter what their age.

13. FYI
    West Virginia got constitutional carry. When the state legislature overrode the governor’s veto.

14. In Texas, we are having to ( shouldn’t use the word threaten ) contact our state legislature and remind them that if they do not pass constitutional carry this time that there will be all new faces up there soon. Too many Rinos and socialists in Austin.

15. Americans are NOT free. Government in the US does not respect any human rights at home or abroad. Every single part of the Bill of Rights is violated at the federal, state, and local levels each day by the police — backed up by “our” military, which stands ready to turn its weapons against the American people as soon as the order is given. It has done so many times in the past. So much for that oath to protect the Constitution, eh? The Constitution is dead.

    Also, why are you thanking veterans when you are a veteran yourself? And why should I thank veterans of any war fought since WWII? Whom did they fight who was a threat to me? Were the VC or the Taliban going to invade Iowa and take over the Wal-Marts and Best Buys? Gimme a break. I don’t sleep peacefully in my bed at night, and the reason is because America has turned into a police state, thanks to the “War on Terror,” the “War on Drugs,” and all who contribute to these anti-American abominations.

    • Americans are NOT free. Government in the US does not respect any human rights at home or abroad.

      Yes. I agree.
      For those that disagree: Name one thing you can do without local, city, county, state or federal approval/permit/license first. Now think real hard…and name one.
      You can’t.

      • Walk to the liquor store, walk back and get drunk.

16. Good enough to fight for your country, seems ya should be good enough to put a sig 238 in your pocket.

17. here in wisconsin the law abiding can open carry a handgun with no permit at the age of 18
    and there aint no blood flowing in the streets as a result

18. Nice. And remember that you have to cancel all RINOs at the primaries, and not just be upset that you had to elect a RINO on election day.

19. To much talk.(Shou not be infringed)
    enough said.

20. Psychologists have stated that young men below the age of 25 have not reached full maturity and often do not realize both the short and long term consequences of their actions. Letting wild and often drunken 18 year olds run around with loaded guns is the absolute pinnacle of insanity.

    • Allowing young men under age 25 to be murdered by dope addled gangbangers with guns because you won’t let those men defend themselves is the pinnacle of insanity, the wild and drunken 18-year-olds will not ASK your sorry ass for permission!

    • Firearm owners are already, by law, not allowed to carry when intoxicated.
      FWIW there’s plenty of drunk 25+yrs old people too.
      NEXT,,,,,,,,,

    • No it’s not. It’s a good way to get rid of the damned teenagers. Hot rodding their cars up and down the road, loud music blasting, partying, having fun.
      GET OFF MY LAWN, damned kids.
      What’s the world coming to?

21. @dacian

    But, but they can’t be drunk…the law says so.

    It appears that you are advocating for underage drinking…what an absolute pinnacle of insanity!

22. The worst aggressive military killers in Vietnam were 25 years plus, take Calley as an instance. The young guys followed orders much more than the older guys.

    • Worst aggresive. For some reason that sounds fcked up. Most aggresive, more aggressive, ???.
      Your worst aggresive killers in Vietnam were the NVA

23. Way to go !

24. My 16year old brothers adult enough to father two kids and look for a job, hes carried a gunm since we got married. So far, knock on plastic that looks like wood, hes not shot anybody by accident yet.

Comments are closed.