It doesn’t appear that Andrew Lee Scott had heard many knock knock jokes before because he forgot to ask who was there last night. Unfortunately for him, it was deputies from the Lake County Sheriff’s Office looking for someone suspected of attempted murder. Two problems: first, they didn’t identify themselves and second, it was 1:30 am. Both facts go a long way toward explaining why Scott answered the door with a gun in his hand. You probably know where this is going . . .

“When we knocked on the door, the door opened and the occupant of that apartment was pointing a gun at deputies and that’s when we opened fire and killed him,” Lt. John Herrell said.

According to wesh.com, the LEOs were looking for Jonathan Brown who’d been seen in the same apartment complex and whose motorcycle was parked in front of Scott’s unit.

“It’s just a bizarre set of circumstances. The bottom line is, you point a gun at a deputy sheriff or police office, you’re going to get shot,” Herrell said.

And orlandosentinel.com quotes Herrell as saying that not identifying themselves is SOP.

Deputies, however, did not announce who they were, said Sheriff’s Office spokesman Lt. John Herrell, because they thought it would be more “tactically advantageous.” Herrell said it is not standard procedure for deputies to announce their presence, but the officers were in uniform.

The deputies ended up finding Brown in another building nearby. You can bet Scott will look through the peephole or at least ask, “who’s there?” next time he gets a middle-of-the-night knock on his door. Or he would if he were still alive. Now, not so much.

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

68 COMMENTS

  1. It does pay to look first, you know, like IDENTIFY your target before showing your handful of gun.

    I had an unannounced visit from an ATF agent with a local cop to inquire about a handgun that I had owned in the past, and all it took was one peek from the corner of my window to see that it was the police and to put my pistol back into my holster.

    Coming to the door armed is everyone’s right in the USA, but a lil bit of common sense is required to keep from getting killed over it!

  2. My first thought is to question that whole “pointed a gun at them” thing. It sounds just like Jimbo’s “it’s comin’ right for us” method of CYA.

    • I am with you. He pointed the gun at the uniformed officers when he opened the door. Sure he did. I believe em, I believe em. If he really pointed the gun at them, I must question his intelligence.

        • Do you have a reference to substantiate this claim?

          I don’t find anything supporting that in a Google search.

        • I’m waiting. Dubya Bee is waiting too. I think it’s possible, but I want to KNOW for sure (unlike those cops at the door).

  3. If anybody comes knocking on your door at “zero dark 30” don’t open the door without verifying who they are. If they won’t identify themselves assume a defensive position and call 911. Do not open the door with a gun in your hand. If it’s the cops they are going to shoot you and why would you open the door if you thought it was a bad guy.

    • Bingo! Same thing if you hear a bump in the night. You don’t have to show off your ninja moves and clear the house. Secure yourself and loved ones and dial 911. If someone pressures you, respond appropriately. There may be more to this story, and possibly even a police coverup for knocking on the wrong door, but for the presented scenario, even if he lived through that, he was still in heap of crap.

      • “Bingo! Same thing if you hear a bump in the night. You don’t have to show off your ninja moves and clear the house. Secure yourself and loved ones and dial 911.”

        But that’s not how I do it in Cowaduty:MW3…

        In all seriousness though… Your average individual/shooter isn’t going to have the training or the skill set to know how to safely and properly clear rooms “ninja style” as you so put it. It’s good to have those skills but completely unnecessary. “Secure yourself and loved ones and dial 911.” That’s your best chance at avoiding confrontation and potentially carrying the blood of another man on your hands. Your DVD player isnt worth the hassle of cleaning the blood out of the carpet.

      • “Secure yourself and loved ones and dial 911”
        Not everyone wants to give the police a free search warrant.

        • Well Matt then you have to take your chances with either the cops or the robbers. Calling 911 does not give the cops a right to come into your house. If it really is the Po Pos at your door and they are at the wrong location 911 will tell them that. If it’s a private citizen then one of three things will happen. They will break in and you will shoot them. They will break in and they will shoot you or the cops will show up and they will run away.

          I don’t see why you and Henry are so hot to fight a losing battle with the cops. Do you guys have a death wish?

    • “tdiinva says:

      July 16, 2012 at 14:18

      If anybody comes knocking on your door at “zero dark 30″ don’t open the door without verifying who they are. If they won’t identify themselves assume a defensive position and call 911. Do not open the door with a gun in your hand. If it’s the cops they are going to shoot you and why would you open the door if you thought it was a bad guy.”

      For sure, tdiinva

  4. here’s a thought. it’s 1.30 am. somebody knocks on your door that you’re not expecting. call 911. nothing good ever starts with an unexpected 1.30 am knock knock.

  5. “It’s just a bizarre set of circumstances. The bottom line is, you point a gun at a deputy sheriff or police office, you’re going to get shot,” Herrell said.

    So is the reverse true for us peasants?

  6. Stop blaming the victim, the cops should have identified themselves. Same with no-knock police home invations, it gives the police excuses to shoot innocent people.

    • The cops were looking for someone wanted for questioning for a murder. The cops went to the building where the suspect’s motorcycle was parked. The cops didn’t announce because of the “murder suspect.”

      • His motor cycle was “parked outside” that doesn’t mean he’s in that apartment. The is no was to twist or contort the fact THE COPS WERE RECKLESS AND IRRESPONSIBLE , sorry. And he (the guy they didn’t shoot) was wanted for “questioning” which last time I checked was not a capital offense. This deification of the authorities is crap. They are human and subject to make mistakes, which must be taken into consideration when wielding deadly force. PERIOD.

      • Even outside a major city “parked outside” can easily be within walking distance of several hundred if not several THOUSAND non-murder suspects who like not getting shot for being suspicious of 1AM knocks.

        • The cops involved should have to answer for this and the commander of the raid FIRED at the very least.

  7. It’s just a bizarre set of circumstances.

    I wouldn’t say that cops going to the wrong home and gunning down an innocent person is bizarre. Actually, it’s a common circumstance. Well, at least no dogs were shot in the making of this murder.

  8. Lt. Herrell “originally” told all the local stations that the officers DID anounce who they were. Then a neighbor came forward and told the same stations that there was NO announcement. Then the police backed off and admitted they didn’t announce. Makes you wonder if Scott really did answer the door “pointing” the gun at the officers. At least Mr. Scott had drug paraphenalia inside his apartment, and had previously been arrested for possession… so the officers have that on their side (not likely).

    Answering your door in Central Floriduh at 1:30am – 4:30am with a weapon in your hand is MANDATORY. And lately, even the home-invading BGs claim they are police officers. So…. what are you supposed to do???

    • Note: missed the edit timer….

      Obviously, it is best to verify the officer’s mission via 911 call. Ask the officers to please wait while you authenticate them. Then pray that they wait.

    • Unfortunately, he accepted the Darwin Award on behalf of his fellow man that allow their government to work like this.

  10. Call me a fool but, shouldnt they ALWAYS announce themselves if they are serving a warrant or looking for a suspicious person?

    • No, they need to be tossed in jail for life in the general population with special uniforms that say “cop” on them, so every inmate knows what kind of person they are. I’d give them a month, tops.

      • I disagree; When further illegal action by inmates is sanctioned as you suggest, it becomes part of the punishment. Furthermore, such action generally fits the definition of “cruel and unusual” and as such is prohibited by The U.S. Constitution.

        Just because the jackbooted thugs use the U.S. Constitution as toilet paper does not invalidate the document with respect to them. They have rights, and if we value OUR rights, we must respect theirs.

        That said, I don’t view a hangman’s noose as cruel, nor do I believe it should be as unusual a punishment as it has become.

  12. Have a solid heavy duty wood inner door with a peep hole and a strong outer metal/screen door. Have a master switch (and an audio/video system to see who is outside) that lights up the outside area like daylight all around the house or at least the front area. Day or night, anyone can dress up like a cop so ask before you open the door and then you can always call 911 to verify they are actually the police outside.

    At 1:30AM, if someone comes banging or knocking on my front door I’m going to call 911 first while I’m dressing and arming myself.

  13. It was the police that created the life threatening home invasion type environment by not identifying themselves. It’s like they intended to shoot whoever opened the door. If he had the TV remote, whoops! We thought it was a gun. Have a nice day.
    Oh, I am a supporter of responsible LLEOs but DHS has these guys on a hair trigger. No law suit will make that guy or his family whole. Sorry officers, irresponsible work there. I also am dubious in regard to that pointed a gun at police story. I doubt Mr. Scott had the time or chance to lower the gun when he saw it was cops. And the cops play the justified victim. Do you think Mr. Scott will get the degree of inquiry recent tragedies have received? I think that gun grabbers will twist this into another reason to end private ownership of weapons.
    One last thing. If the cops knew that home owners had the right to have home guns, don’t you think they could have taken that into consideration during their “what’s tactically advantageous” pre strike meeting? Very disappointing.

  14. I think there is something missing to this version of the story that may help color the dead guy’s decision to bring a gun to bear on a couple of uniformed officers. The guy has had multiple arrests for drugs, and he had drugs in his apartment when he was killed. Perhaps Mr. Scott was not in the best frame of mind, I would like to see a toxicology report on the deceased. However, the guy being stoned or stupid doesn’t excuse the cops poor judgement in not announcing themselves. I think both sides of the story need to be assessed.

    • Both sides of the story need to be assessed? Really!? An innocent person is dead. Cops killed him due to their own stupidity. What other side is there?

      He had one drug charge and one criminal mischief 6+ years ago. Adjudication witheld.

      Ohh, after the the cops KILLED HIM, and initially LIED about announcing themselves (until a witness surfaced), they found some weed. OMFG! Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ! he must’ve been a real bad dude!

      Glad they all went home safe. /sarc

      Karma is a bitch.

    • Police didn’t exercise bad judgment, they followed “standard procedure” that’s thought to be “tactically advantageous.” That’s the problem, as a matter of policy law enforcement puts both themselves and the public at risk for no good reason.

    • How many writers on this site…with clean records…that don’t do drugs…advocate home carry?

  15. My 2 cents…the police are lying. The dead guy was stupid. So what, it happens every day.

    Got to think all this out now, not when it happens. The cops have a battle plan. 5 or maybe 10 seconds after the nock nock, your front door is exploding. There will be massive confusion on YOUR part and PANIC most likely. There might be flashbangs going off. They might be in the process of killing your dog and kids. Shooting granny sleeping on the couch in the living room. All sickeningly not good. All happens on a daily basis across America.

    If you have any idea of defending yourself resign said self to the fact that you have a very high chance of dying. All the stuff that is taught in CCW classes makes NOT a bit of difference and has zero applicability to the situation. These classes won’t even dare touch this topic.

    If you think that you will have time to get to your cell phone, make a call AND get a dispatcher, explain what is going on, AND they somehow are going to intervene, keep dreaming. Ain’t happening. BGs work that way. Wandering around the outside of the house. Pounding on the door for 15 minutes etc etc. The skills in making a tactical assault on a house or apartment have been honed for decades. Quick, enormously aggressive entry, massive power delivered to occupants. Everyone subdued in seconds at worse.

    Soooo….please don’t think that being a gun owner or CCW that you somehow now have a solution for every situation and you are going to win every time. This folks is the classic Kobayashi Maru situation. A no win scenario. Remember that the only possible solution is to redefine the problem. The goal is for everyone to go home safe or in the home owners case, to go to jail unharmed. And you WILL GO TO JAIL NO MATTER WHAT. So I have my idea what might be options but I leave it to the class as homework to think about this one.

    • First off, we’re not in Afghanistan! Do you suggest answering the door with my hands in the air might be better? With all due respect: 1 Your “so what” in paragraph one might be just a bit callous. 2 Sounds in whole like another blame the victim argument? I’m all for the cops “Powell Doctrine” of breaching a PRIVATE HOME, but it would be better if they made sure they got the right god damn address and didn’t lie when they screw up.

      • @Sammy…I take your points seriously. Yes the “so what” does sound callous. What I was trying to convey is that no matter what we think of this case, its done with and finished. What is important to me is our thinking out the reactions we will have if said invasion happens. I believe that too many gun owners and CCW folks do think they now have some sort of magic wand. It isn’t so. There are lots of scenario’s where that pesky reality thing barges in. You are always going to have ethically challenged cops. Read good old Bill Jordans book No Second Place Winner. Relates how a Border Patrol youngster had a shootout. That he said the BG tossed his pistol in a river nearby. Well by the next day they were dragging buckets of guns from the river cause the other BP agents went down that night and were dumping pistols into the water. Now that was what? 70 years ago? Nothing has changed. Hope you don’t think “throw away guns” are a thing of the past. Cops are also part of large bureaucratic organizations. You think every cop is a rocket scientist. They are bound to do stupid stuff. So those are two really really really critical factors of life we have to deal with.

        So it goes back to what I said IMHO. Use this time to think out how you will be reacting in a totally insane situation. Depending on what you do, it will either end with toe tags being dispensed or you taking a trip to the local jailhouse. In my eyes I would like to see it end with me popping open a cold brewski in the kitchen after the men in blue realize their mistake. I have zero motivation to get into some sort of gun battle at 1:30am in the morning.

        • Hey Tommy,

          I agree whole heatedly with your last post. I have been ranting about the UNs ATT and pointing out if it passes any attempt to get into a gunfight with LLEO or worse yet combat veterans will be the end of the line for anyone doing so. The thing that makes me disappointed is that I used to really look up to peace officers before they became law enforcement officers. Huge difference between the two. And for them to storm the wrong house, not identifying themselves, lying (?) blaming the dead man AND going scott free is inexcusable. This type of irresponsibility should be corrected and the reckless behavior punished. From the story you’d think all the cops did was mis deliver a pizza. But YOU are RIGHT. nothing will happen once the blue curtain is drawn closed. Reckless endangerment is not acceptable behavior for men given the powers of life and death, freedom or jail, over the general population.

          I could go on about the misconceptions ccp holders have about do’s and don’t and what happens to the entire body under stress when your heart rate is 170+, but that would take a long time.

          Stay safe and peek out before you open the door anytime. I will from here out.

        • I think that comment was funny for sure. It’s obviously an open and shut case, Johnson. 🙂

          People die every day dude. It ain’t right, but I don’t break down in tears every time it happens.

  17. kids, dogs, sleeping grannies. daily basis. i made a remark about anarchy on this site and got roasted and this goes unchallenged. tin foil hats for everyone.

    • Anarchists, the cops favorite scape goat. Look at the Haymarket Police Riots, they blamed and executed several anarchists, all because the police went nuts, and started firing blindly in to a crowd, murdering 12 of their own, and countless civilians, in an attempt to suppress union workers.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair

    • Half the “anarchists” if we’re talking the guys in black who always wind up lining window installers’ pockets at protests, are cops. The other half for the most part aren’t even anarchists, no matter how much they use the word.

  18. What really happened was that Andrew Lee Scott was kneeling down to do an exotic dance for the officer and the officer’s gun just went off while still in it’s holster, which fortunately was uninjured. Whaddayaknow, it’s the second time that’s happened in a week. Damn those Glocks.

  19. Just a broader point here. Besides whether or not the guy was a felon/ possessed drugs, whatever. The biggest problem is that it could have happened to any of us. The whole no knock/no identification BS got someone killed. The cops killed a “criminal” this time, but soon it will be a totally innocent person. All because they aren’t doing their research (double flashbang on a 14 yr old). So maybe the street level cops aren’t to blame, but somewhere in the intelligence process, there’s a lack of, well, you know, intelligence.

  20. If it was reversed, i.e. the armed homeowner sees two people out there with guns and opens fire, do you think the prosecutor would be talking like, “It’s just a bizarre set of circumstances. You show up with a gun on someone’s porch at 1:30 am, and you can understand how you get shot!” No, you’d be facing capital murder.

  21. Not every 911 call will be answered….
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/No-Deaths-Related-to-911-Total-Failure-161104535.html

    My wife lost power in Arlington for 22hrs on Jun 29th, 911 system went down for up to 48-72hrs, maybe kinda depending on who you ask….

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/verizon-911-service-providers-out-of-sync-on-storm-outage/2012/07/12/gJQAkGUWgW_story.html

    But in all seriousness… sometimes when seconds count its only you against the bad guys and Murphy.

    • Don’t paint with such a broad brush. 90% of the men in blue are cool. It’s the power abusers that deserve scorn.

      • BULLSHIT!

        The very first thing command does is LIE, and try to diminish “liability”. The Officers lie because they don’t want to face the consequences of a bad shoot and an innocent dead man. So then they lie cooperatively and if things go south, competitively.

        Lot of money to be lost by not covering up effectively.

  24. All apartments that I have seen have a minimum of two locks and a peephole for liability reasons. Perhaps someone should sue the apts. for not having a peephole to see if it is someone who is gonna kill you before you open the door.

    • I saw a different article first. It said he came to the door with a gun in his hand. It DID NOT say he pointed it at them. The door also had multiple bullet holes. If it happens to us we will most likely have the same short end of the stick.
      1. They won’t announce
      2. Your doors will be simutaniously busted in & flash bang granades set off.
      3. They will shoot the dogs
      4. They will shoot you holding a gun.
      5. They will be hi five-ing basking in the Glory of Hitting the WRONG House & killing another upstanding citizen.

      • Their story will change as may time as it takes for the cops to Cover Their Asses. It irks me to see the men we have entrusted with guns backed by badges turn into common lairs. This is another glaring example of a multi tiered legal system, that has little or nothing to do with JUSTICE. It’s a damn shame to see some of the people we think are our guardians centering on getting a story together that fits their narrative while an innocent man lies dead. In case you forgot dead is a permanent condition. And how about the PTS for Mr. Scott’s family? And as far as the pot charge goes, I know of a “high” official living on Pennsylvania Ave in DC who also smoked pot. Think someone will break his door down by accident?

  25. They’re lying.

    And I guess being sure your target actually is your target, just went out the window, and excuses for killing an innocent party became the order of the day.

    We are nothing to this bunch. Just potential targets.

  26. It appears that all law enforcement in the US has the same standard operating procedure, its as if they took many pages out of the GESTAPO hand book, VERY reminescent of Hitler’s NAZI germany. I keep several loaded weapons in my home, should something go bump in the night you can bet I will be armed when I go to investigate it. Law Enforcement in this country is out of f**king control, we have turned into a police state and this man is dead because it. We use more restraint in Afghanistan during the same type raids than in the US! Its called Tactical callout. LE agencies in the US ought to give it a try.

  27. Ok, lets look at this.

    The radio report said the officers were looking for the subject for a Battery charge or possibly Aggrivated Battery, Not Attempted Murder. That charge of Attempted Murder was never brought up as the person beat up refused medical treatment on the scene, and when shown on interveiw he had no damage to any of his limbs.

    There for it did not dictate the force shown, by LCSO. If it was that grave of a scene why was it that no vehicle was pointed at the door with lights on and dash cam to record the incident? I know protocol in the state I live in would be to secure the area and bring in the swat team and allow the professionals handle it by clearing other apartments for public safety. The officers knew Management as they had dealt with them on numerous occassions, this time they failed to contact them for varification of address and apartment number, it would have been easy since they had a name of the suspect. The shooting officer is a 7 year K9 officer on the force and a 20+ year military veteran, Why did he not use his dog?

    Also lets look at The officers were working wide awake with adrenaline pumping (the shooting officer had been working 20-40 hour overtime each week for more than a month, and was recently involved in another shooting less than 2 weeks prior), Mr Scott had been in bed asleep with his fiance. They were both awakened to the beating on the door, and a refusal by the officers to announce themselves. Now put yourself in that position of being asleep and awakened to defend your home and loved ones.

    Now Mr Scott was right handed and given his door he would have opened it inward with his right hand, placing his gun in his left hand. Chances of him drawing that fast at them is litteraly impossible. BTW his fiance is the only one whom has not changed her story as she said, he had the gun pointed at the ground.

    Lets go a little farther, the suspect they were chasing was a Law Enforcement Officer from another town, What if they had been at the right door, they would have shot another Law Enforcement Officer. Hmmmm

    The charge of Attempted Murder never came until over 1 1/2 hours after they shot Mr Scott, and they never even positively identified they shot the wrong person for over 1 hour after they had killed the wrong person.

    BTW the only People whom do not have to announce them selves are Homeland Security Officers, Parole Officers, and US Marshalls. All other officers are required by law to Announce themselves.

    All of the stuff I mention with exception to which handed he was is from news reports and media as well as radio report published, and I only know that to be a fact he was right handed because of Personal Contact and Knowledge.

    Would it make any difference if, Mr Scott was related to a officer and had been trained to not point a weapon at anyone first without planning to shoot, and could he have been awake enough to have made that determination to shoot having been awakened from a sleep?

    I know I live in the country and would answer my door the same way, or they would be met with live fire upon their entry to my domicile. We have approximately 900 Square miles in our county, and on any given night it is normal to only have 3-5 county sheriffs on duty at night, that being said by the time a officer would be at my house could be hours before I would see them at my door.

    The family of this young man has lost a family member that can never be replaced, Our hearts should be with them, and the Officer that shot this young man will have to live with it every day on his conscience for the rest of his life. This is truely tragic for all envolved.

  28. Call 911, don’t answer the door, take a defensive position and do what I’ve done. Spend a few bucks on a camera system with verbal ability to talk to the folks on the other side.

    We are giving away our rights to thugs who call themselves cops. They cover for each other all the time. They are poorly trained and very dangerous. Some of them have equipment on ass backwards and I’ve seen them moving with their fingers on the trigger with no target in sight . . . but waayyyy tacticoooollllll.

    Cops are 15 times more likely to cause violent injury to someone than CCW’s or CHP’s per 100,000 (and that’s while NOT on duty). Maybe we need some psyche tests for cops. I don’t like them. If this is cop bashing toughl . . . if you’re a cop, clean up your act and I’ll think differently.

    If I know it’s the cops, I will not arm myself. If during the discussion I realize they are cops, I will disarm. May not be legal and I may be giving my rights away but it’s no good if I’m right and dead.

    On the other hand, there is a deputy sheriff in SC who had time to think. A shooter was taking out people in a nursing home. He didn’t wait for SWAT or his buddies. He went in through the front, got shot but neutralized the BG. Maybe there are some good cops out there.

    We all take chances, these are the ones I will take.

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