Identilock biometric lock (Dan Z for TTAG)

The argument against safe-storage laws by gun advocates is that when the bad man breaks into the house, a trigger lock or a gun in a locked cabinet makes the weapon useless for self-defense. But that’s not the case.

Vendors have designed trigger locks and gun safes that users can quickly access. Besides, unsecured guns are much more likely to be fired accidentally or used in a suicide than they are in self-defense.

Also, unsecured firearms in the home are more likely to get stolen in a burglary. In fact, gun thefts from cars, homes and gun dealers are a main source of black-market gun sales.

So failing to secure firearms increases chances of accidental deaths and suicides, including among children, and increases the chances a lawfully purchased firearm will find its way to violent criminals. The weight of evidence in favor of requiring owners to properly secure their firearms is overwhelming.

– LA Times Editorial Board in Gun storage laws save lives, so why don’t we have more of them?

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

107 COMMENTS

    • In reality- Mandatory Truth In Reporting would affect far more Americans that firearms storage regulations…

    • so when does the govt.plan on providing me with a new gun safe?…let alone finding someone who can actually deliver and install one of these things….

    • Never trust the data used to restrict our rights or pleasures. The hands free device study for cell phones was based on a 100% false study by college students. The plastic straw ban based on made up data by a nine year old. As long as it sounds warm and fuzzy the voters in California will buy it.

    • If the government thinks I simply MUST have such equipment, the government should deliver it to my door at taxpayer expense. Otherwise, such a requirement is an infringement.

    • Hush now there is an agenda to push and no need to let silly things like facts or critical thinking to get in the way.

      • There is a reason the Anti American/Constitution Left are referred to as Leftards

        • No kidding and sad that my state exports so many your way when they are not busy trying to ruin Florida and Maine.

    • Well, first and foremost, that is a mental health issue. Second, there are ALREADY laws on the books that criminalize incidents where a minor gets hold of a firearm and causes injury to himself or others. Do we really need more nanny statism?

    • How about the huge rise in male suicide too? Suicide is a huge ignored problem.

      For the record I live in CA and keep my guns in safes. I also lock up the ammo (but there is self defense ammo in every safe ready,). Hey, I have curious young kids!

      I’m also divorced in CA, so if I am reported by my kids not complying…

      • “How about the huge rise in male suicide too? Suicide is a huge ignored problem.”

        Hell, no. Male suicide is *good*.

        It helps reduce the rate of ‘Toxic Male Masculinity’ the Leftists keep harping on about…

  5. And mandatory child proof caps with no options would really make childless old people safer since they can’t get to their medicine and risk an overdose.

  6. Common sense does not need to be put into criminal law. The LAT is correct in that unsecured firearms are a threat. Your guns should be either be secured in a safe or carried on your hip. And most gun free zones should be eliminated so gun owners need not leave their carry gun unprotected in their vehicles.

    • If common sense didn’t have to be codified into law, we would HAVE no law. That’s because ‘common sense’ is one of the least common commodities on this planet, or at least in this country.
      Hell, we have people who don’t even know that murder is BAD, because they lack ‘common sense’. Without a law, how are they gonna KNOW?
      Specifically to firearm storage, approximately every other week we read of some doting ‘uncle’ (read: ‘Baby Daddy’) leaving his Lorcin .380 on top of the refrigerator/VCR/dresser/closet shelf/right out in plain sight, after which Little Don’Tavious picks it up and puts a 95-grain FMJ through his own noggin, or that of any nearby Crispus Attucks (read: “Innocent Bystander”). Now, Big Don’Tavious always has NO idea that he should keep loaded firearms away from the kiddies, because there is no law to tell him that he should do that–and everyone just KNOWS that if there was a law, Big Don’Tavious would obey it, as he does all others religiously.

      Dammit. My logic has a flaw.

      Never mind.

      • Wow. Racist stereotype much? I was actually surprised by it because all of the kiddo shooting kiddo/self/parent/cousin stories I’ve heard of lately tended to be incidents in vehicles where redneck daddy/moma left his/her loaded pistol in the car. Then, when the other parent next used the car and left the kids in the car while running into the Wal-Mart one of the bored kids finds gun and shoots someone. About two years ago a toddler in a car seat got a pistol from mom’s purse (or it fell out) and shot mom in the back while driving.

        Good people ARE also idiots.
        The flaw in your logic is not understanding that ALMOST EVERYONE breaks the law for his or her own convenience when the consequences of getting caught are small. If we jailed folks convicted of driving 20 over the speed limit to promote traffic safety you can be damn sure fatalities related to speed would go down.

        I honestly can’t believe gun rights activists are opposed to this.

        • May want to save some time and read the various comments by Vlad tepis on this topic and how it was generally argued and received.

        • @Michael H: So I propose new laws that require you lock up your kitchen cabinets, and your bathroom too. There are dangerous chemicals like chlorine and ammonia, when mix create poisonous gas. You have red pepper flakes in your pantry that can cause blindness temporarily mostly, and your bathroom medicine cabinet needs to have double security, those Vicodin the dentist gave you are deadly, but also your vitamin A, D & E are toxic to anyone who ingests too many. And also lock up you Snickers bars and the M & Ms because your dog could die. See how it works, once the goobermint takes over your thinking for you and runs every aspect of your life.

        • There has been mandated “seat-belt laws” that have saved thousands of lives but I’m sure there are plenty of people who are still in opposition without ever realizing that it may be a benefit to them as well. They denounce it just because of foolish convictions. About 15% of our adult population still smokes while 80% of the hospital beds are full with smoking related patients. The public is paying a big tab for this, some things have a way of affecting everybody.

        • We are not opposed to sensible/secure/whatever storage. We are opposed to the governments dictating the details of how we accomplish what we decide works for our particular situations and criminalizing us for operating outside those bounds.

        • Yo, Michael. John never mentioned race in any way, it was *you* who introduced race into the discussion, which makes you a racist.

          And traffic deaths “related to speed” pale in comparison to deaths related to drugs and alcohol, says the guy with no scratches on his 8-year-old gofasty normally driven at near supersonic, while stone sober, well rested and completely disregarding speed limits. Your priorities seem to be skewed.

    • I’ll settle for my deadbolt locks, security lights and cameras and an alarm system, thank you…I like to have mine quickly available….

      • Not me. I take the first shift while the wife takes the second. Just having your piece right there at all times isn’t enough. You got to stand vigilant, patrol the windows and keep an ear towards the shadows. Having your friend in the nightstand will never be enough because the boogie has the element of surprise-you will never draw on him fast nuff unless you are awake and ready! It is easier to live on three hours sleep a day than to live when your dead.

  7. A balance needs to be struck between defending against horror and protecting against tragedy. I’d prefer not to give the government any reason to define that balance for me. Be smart.

  8. In order to gain access to a locked-up gun, the owner should be required to solve a simple algebra problem. The correct answer would unlock the safe.

    • It should also require a literacy test, proof of citizenship and a tax….. I mean “use fee”

    • And the taxpayer is going to buy me that safe, and pay to have it installed in my house, so that I can keep the guns I am not currently keeping loaded in the house, or on my person, in it? Is that your plan? If so, thank you very much, I’d like a new truck to transport my collection in, also, can you work on that for me?

      Let’s see, $5000 safe X 150,000,000 Americans, don’t have my calculator, is that $750 billion? Before we start delivering the trucks? Are you a moron?

  9. Reading the L.A.Times to Californians is the same as Reading Pravda by Soviet Citizens. It is the Government’s lap dog of misinformation and indoctrination. So just be a good little Comrade and move along.

      • Printed News agencies are hurting in this “E” world of real time information and social media. They want to sell the physical item of news- papers. They will write whatever generates sales. Real truth is hard to swallow sometimes, it is not what sells. If you can get 20-thousand more people to buy your paper today because they are anti-gun, then you print something that will appeal to them. And it isn’t just guns, newspapers have a little something for everybody.

  10. Here is a crazy idea,now bear with me here. How about we punish actual criminals. You know the ones who actually break the laws. How about we deal with them severely, so that stealing and taking lives is seen as having mandatory death penalties. Maybe that will solve the problem. Makes sense to me. And you know for the children and all that…

  11. I haven’t been able to google it, but I remember a story from around the early to mid 2000’s about a home invasion where the intruder was able to rob, beat, and I believe rape with impunity due to the fact the family’s guns were locked up due to a “safe storage” requirement.

    What I remember from the story is that a teenage girl (may have been babysitting younger siblings or the like) ran to get a rifle when the intruder broke in. She had been trained by her dad how to shoot, etc. She either couldn’t get to the weapon, or couldn’t get the trigger lock off of it. Whichever it was, it was there due to a safe storage law of some sort.

    I don’t believe anyone was killed by the intruder, but I’m almost certain he sexually assaulted one or more of the girls in the house.

    Does this story ring a bell with anyone?

    • I don’t recall that one, but I would be shocked if that has not happened dozens of times.

  12. “Besides, unsecured guns are much more likely to be fired accidentally or used in a suicide than they are in self-defense.”

    ROFLMFAO…

  13. Someone should send them some YouTube videos of how easy it is to actually break into a gun safe much less one of those boxes.

    • Too true.Those small bed side safes are good for the kiddies but are a mere inconvenience to burglars.

      I also wanted to add that these laws are overbroad, as they apply uniformly to all gun owners, despite that all gun owners are not created equal. Some are single, or a childless couple. Or everyone in the house is 18 or older. My kids are grown and moved on, nor do I have any minor children visiting, related or not. Other than to deter burglars, I have no reason to lock up my guns.

  14. None of these gun locks makes good sense. With one exception. Children in the home. Personally I dont concern myself with suicides. Thats good house cleaning. And as far as theft. If a gun is going to be stolen what difference does a lock make at that time. If my nightstand gun is locked biometric or not. Seconds are lost.
    So to me the only reason for a gunlock is kids around.

      • kids and grandkids can scurry about…best to secure them when they’re around…keep an eye on anybody else you let in your home, as well…just because they’re available doesn’t mean they have to be visible…lots of places to hide them….

        • lately i’ve gotten into airsoft and replica guns…those you can display freely…and they certainly would confuse a thief…..

  15. I’m too depressed about this last bullshit season of Game of Thrones to give a damn about what those ignorant gun control morons in California do or do not…..

    • I’m concerned that you, being depressed, are in danger of harming yourself or others.

      Please give us your name and address so that we can get a Red Flag order to seize your guns, knives, hammers, hatchets, household cleaning products, ropes, phone cords, lengths of twine, screwdrivers, heavy things, roof (from which you could jump), car, and any pointy sticks you may have lying about.

      In the meantime, be sure to secure your firearms so that you can’t get to them. We’ll have someone there shortly.

      • I don’t live in Commiefornia so that red flag shit don’t fly, anyway my shrink says take two Zanex with a tall Christian Brothers over ice and a couple cans of Guinness and call her next week

        • At least until they make it illegal for anyone that takes any kind of mental meds to own a firearm. Then your shrink will have to report that you’re on Zanex to the State, and your guns will go byebye.

        • Under California law you couldn’t own a firearm with your chemical dependency or your state of mental health. You threatening Hooligan.

          • Wow, good thing I got out of there while it was still a free state where the Constitution of the United States still prevailed and you could live life openly as a proud Conservative… Sorry for bringing up old memories i know how much it must hurt to recall the good old days….

  16. A gun that is not accessible instantly is not even as useful as brick. I don’t lock up my gun, I carry it on my person everywhere I go, including home. It’s by my side 24 hours a day, and I am not changing that because of some stupid law or article by the L.A. Times. One in the chamber, no manual safety, thank you very much. The safety is between my ears. Waiting for the Fudds and the safety police to chastise me in 3,2,1….

      • I hope it’s not more than 10 and if your launching device is something other than your arm that it has been government approved

  18. Nothing like a turncoat agreeing to anti gunners trying to take away people’s rights of the second amendment.

  20. LA is where the beautiful people are. If you want to see their beauty firsthand stop by any underpass.

  23. It makes sense to secure your firearms. I use a safe hard-wired with battery backup that’s rapidly accessible, next to my bed. I also have small children in my house.

    HOWEVER – it should be up to the owner what level they want to use to secure their firearms, not mandated by the State.

  24. The real message:

    Safe storage laws save home invader’s lives so they can continue to vote Democrat!

    • always knew where my old man’s gun was…[in the nightstand]….no big deal…preferred my bb gun anyway….

      • No joke. Dead people vote all the time. Some even buy firearms and convert to Mormonism. One is even campaigning as a progressive.

  25. Couple of issues here.

    First is the safe-storage issue. Does the Federal Constitution give Congress the power to mandate the safe-storage of anything in the home? If it does, then where do we find that enumerated power or implied power.

    Supposing we have found it, then what is the scope of that power? Does it extend to flammables, poisons, cutlery, machinery, etc.? Or, is it limited to just a few classes of objects? How should Congress apply its power? Pick applicable objects whimsically? Or, are there priorities, principles of guidance? If opiates are a more severe problem than guns then shouldn’t Congress first regulate the safe-storage of opiates?

    Second, what is this theft problem? Let’s imagine two alternative circumstances. In the first, imagine that handguns were so rare that criminals would have to steal them to acquire them in any appreciable quantity. Second, imagine that they were so ubiquitous that any criminal could obtain one with little effort. In the first circumstance safe-storage offers some promise of keeping guns difficult to obtain by theft. In the second, efficacy would be marginal at best. A substantial national investment in gun safes would – at best – delay but not stop a criminal from obtaining a handgun from alternative sources.

    Children (or other incompetents) gaining access to guns in the homes where they dwell is a distinct problem. Armoring-up the exterior of the home will stop an external thief but not a resident of the home. Yet, what is the solution here? Is it training the children? Locking-up all guns but one kept on-the-body at all times; nightstand when sleeping? Is there any hope of policing such a scheme – apart from punishing parents after an accident has happened?

    After considering the foregoing issues, this seems like merely another unenforceable law to be used to harrass law-abiding gun owners who don’t live-up to the standards of care of those who don’t own guns.

    • Heller struck down mandatory trigger locks ……. the left wing controlled lower courts just refuse to admit it…

    • Kids just don’t seem interested in cutlery or poisons anymore. They just want to play with mommy’s gun. Sad how our values have declined over the years. Heaven forbid if some kid found his dad’s polyester leisure suit from the ’70s unsecured in a closet and wore it to school.

    • Certainly no one should expect the “Gun Safe Police” to go around knocking on door to door. It is for the casting of blame when and after something goes wrong. If creepy little Johnny shoots up the sand box with Dad’s Glock, then the people you entrust with your child’s safety won’t actually have to live up to any expectations. And of course there is a large monetary penalty because everybody knows that money can everything all better again.

  26. This is proof that liberals homosexual or heterosexual will tell you what you can and can’t do in your bedroom or any other part of your home.
    This was already done in San Francisco as was discussed TTAG several years ago.

  27. The purpose of the Constitution is to limit government, not citizens. We have to hold the elected to this standard if not a higher standard. Treason, malfeasance or something along those lines. Today is a good day to start.

  28. First, what is a VCR? J/K 😉
    These laws are not about safety, they’re designed to burden, marginalize, and demoralize Gun owners.
    They tell us over and over; “change and brainwash gun culture in am3rica.”
    STOP SAYING THAT ANTI GUNNERS ARE DUMB OR STUPID, THEY ARE NOT. /
    #anti-gunAgenda

    • Yes; always assume your opponents to be more intelligent and strategic than you.

  29. This was already decided in Heller……if Trigger locks were unConstitutional in Heller, then forcing people to completely lock up their guns would also be unConstitutional….

  30. The best way to know at least one gun is both safely secured and available for use is to have it on your body. Nobody can get it and create an accident. Just don’t wander outside if you don’t have a carry permit.

    • tends to wake you when you roll over…had the same problem when I was on-duty…..

    • I lived in a place where there was a school within the “gun free zone” limit. You can’t carry close to a school, which is very hard to do in a populated city. If I were to walk outside with a visible gun, even on private property, no doubt the cops will be responding to a person with a gun at a school call. The cops around there would not hesitate to shoot down any non badge person and ask questions later if at all. I could try to conceal it when on private property, but once I go to a public easement I would be a criminal. So I would have to always dress a certain way and I would have to put my weapon inside while I am throwing out the trash and doing other things.

      The laws were intentionally designed to make me a criminal if I want to exercise my human rights. However, if I had a badge on my chest or belt, I would be able to do whatever I feel like and I will receive all kinds of protections. It’s a two class system; commonly known as a double standard.

  31. All you have to do to prove the point is have these “safe storage” people run a scenario where they have to get their gun out when 3-4 armed men are rushing them after kicking in their door at night time.

    Let’s see if they can defend themselves after they run to their gun safe and unlock it, run to their ammo safe and unlock it, then unlock the gun and load it. Let’s see how fast they can do that when 3-4 armed men are coming for them and their family.

    The quick access storage for handguns are not “safes” that the average teen can’t get into. It’s false security. When I was around 8-10 years old I was able to break into such locks. Now kids can pull out their phone and look up a video on how to open that storage box.

    Yes, it is true if you leave your gun laying around the little kids [2-11 years old] can get your gun even in the most hidden of places. Yes, it is factual that criminals will steal guns from homes, gun stores and cars; that includes police officers’ weapons.

    When I was a little kid I found a gun — as least it looked like one — in the garage on top of a high self around some paint cans. I guess someone figured I wasn’t tall enough, I don’t go into the garage and I have no need for house paint. I don’t know if it was a gun because I did not touch it though I was curious. I know not to mess with real guns because I could fire it, which will only lead to bad things regardless if no one gets hurt. My parents never taught me about guns and I didn’t know they would own one, but I was not a stupid kid and I already knew what damage a real gun can do.

    People should be responsible without the government forcing people to do things that make the situation worse. This is were education comes in. Anti gun people refuse to educate people about guns because they believe that will make guns less scary and there will be less problems to solve using government.

    The government will gladly take power and make you less free by claiming it’s for safety. They will seek to dis-empower everyone that doesn’t work for them. They do not care their laws are not logical from the perspective of liberty. They only care that they will be one step closer to absolute dominance. I will not willfully accept such a government.

    For those people out there with enough money to put red dots and flash lights on their pistols. You have enough money to buy a safe for your weapons. You should buy one before you start putting expensive accessories on your guns. I am saying this because I am seeing a lot of criminals rocking pistols with red dots and flashlights when they rob or shoot people. I am certain these gangsters are not that tacticool all by themselves. Don’t “give” thugs a weapon that is much easier to operate. One day you might be ambushed by thugs with such guns, you will not know that they are thugs until it’s too late, you will think they are cops doing a no knock or responding to a dangerous call.

    A bunch of 2A advocates should make videos of average people trying to defend themselves from a home invasion following “safe storage” requirements. Let’s see how many innocent people die trying to save themselves and their family. Then people can use these videos to show how hard or easy it is to defend your life with government restrictions designed to keep people from accessing the gun easily.

  32. If they want to prevent burglaries of guns maybe they should issue carry permits so people can take Roscoe with them instead of leaving him to be burgled.

    • Naww… It’s better people are forced to put their guns in their unattended cars. No one would dare break a car window in public and steal whatever is inside.

      If there are permits to be issued they shall not be issued to people out of the inner circle. “Donate” some money to your government and you may get permission to exercise your rights. Make sure the amount is enough to make a politician happy.

  33. A good use for the LA Times would be to collect and wrap up all that feces on the sidewalks and streets before disposal.

    That is about all this once proud publication is good for now that the Globalist Elite are using it as a, well, you know.

  34. “In fact, gun thefts from ***CARS***, homes and gun dealers are a main source of black-market gun sales.”

    Emphasis mine.

    This quote doesn’t demonstrate what the Times seems to think it does.

    For one thing, it’s dishonest. It may be true on its face, but only if you conflate all those sources of stolen guns. But you can’t do that, since each source needs to be dealt with separately. While breaking into a gun store is certainly a boon to the black market, they already have more security than most civilian institutions outside of banks, casinos, and celebrities’ homes, and would be completely unaffected by safe storage laws. And more importantly, while guns stolen from homes certainly end up on the black market, the ones stolen from cars outnumber them so vastly that they might as well be negligible. Safe storage laws would ultimately only effect homes, and homes are the least common place for guns to be stolen from.

    But even if they weren’t using weasel-words to try to make this problem fit their solution, rather than the other way around, they’re drawing an entirely wrong conclusion from this data. Cars are, by far, the largest source of stolen guns. And why do people leave guns in cars?

    Because they drive someplace, only to find out that they’re not legally allowed to carry their guns inside, of course!

    According to the Times themselves, the best way to reduce the number of stolen guns on the streets is to eliminate gun-free zones.

    • One thing that increases gun theft from cars is that some folks will leave their piece in the vehicle while they “respect” a rule or law that forbids their carrying in certain places such as a post office or theater. I think a lot of us just exercise more care when we choose to value our lives over obedience.

  35. There is an ongoing, coordinated media effort in Los Angeles to push this “mandatory safe storage” infringement. Bus-stop benches are plastered with “public service messages” about the risk of injury to children due to “un-attended” guns. Never mind the much bigger problem of un-attended children, because of single-parent homes, parents high on drugs, parents being careless and unware of the basic principles of gun safety, and the elimination and resulting lack of youth education programs designed to teach children about the basics of gun safety, including what to do if a child “finds” a gun.

  36. LA Times “quickly access ” is not equal to my “point and shoot”. Either they are ignorant that thousandths of a second matter in life and death situations or they just don’t care about lawful gun owners/familes. Gun in hand will always beat gun in safe or gun with lock: EVERY TIME!

    LA Times should at a minimum test their theories for defensive applications prior to shoveling it to the public.

  37. It is probably no coincidence that three major sporting goods dealers all ran ads with gun safes in the same edition of the L.A. Times.
    It is an old Newspaper advertising strategy: It is called Media Hype and you can see here, it works. 🙂

    • El Segundo. El Segundo is an Incorporated city within the greater Los Angeles county. Los Angeles the city covers over a 500 Square mile area. El Segundo is 14 miles from downtown L.A. as the crow flies. You consider that to be to great a distance for accuracy? You are an idiot of the highest order. Perhaps worse.

  39. “…unsecured guns are much more likely to be fired accidentally or used in a suicide than they are in self-defense.”
    Wut?
    This entire statement is pushing the idea that guns should never come out of the safe, and is only true (statistically or not) when the gun is actually in the safe – unless you’re in the safe with it, it can’t be fired at all, so…
    It also can’t be used for self-defense. I guess that’s a win for statists.
    “I was gonna kill myself, I just didn’t feel like opening the safe.” Suicidal people are lazy?

  40. My house is my safe. When I lock the door, my guns are secured. End of story.

    So people break into houses and take stuff. So we put our guns in a safe. So they break in to the safe. So we put our guns in a safe and put the safe in a safe. So they break in to the safe that’s in the safe. So we put out guns in a safe in a safe and put that safe in a safe. So they break in to the safe that’s … oh, the hell with it. It’s like those Russian nesting dolls.

    • It worked for me. I followed a trail of broken safes right up to the burglars den.

  41. Really? For the Children?

    Stop the Nonsense! When your adrenaline is pumping, what might look like a simple lock on a good day might cause you all sorts of trouble.

    Whatever happened to kids being scared of doing wrong? I knew my parents had a gun in their bedroom, but I wouldn’t go in there unless they actually wanted me to come in or directed me to bring them something from there.

    • I wonder what Lyle and Erik’s opinions are about this. You know, with their insight and all.

  42. Such regulations would be fine IFF they had one certain clause: that any gun “in use” doesn’t have to be secured/locked, and that stowing one in a particular place in case bad guys show up counts as “in use”.

    So leaving rifles against walls around the house would be unacceptable, but putting them in places chosen in case bad guys show up would be legit.

    Oh — and it should also note that enforcement is up to local militia officers elected by local gun owners.

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