Maine Cuts Reciprocity With Several States, Enacts Constitutional Carry

1. I’m baffled by the “no concealed in bars.” VA was the only state that did it right… OC ONLY in bars, that way they can actually tell…

   • You can carry concealed in VA where alcohol is served. Just can’t drink. Always been legal to OC and drink. It is, however, illegal to OC while intoxicated.

     • Yes, it should be allowed to be concealed everywhere. I’m pretty much a teetotaler, I’m never inebriated. But like everyone I go to venues where alcohol is served (wherever there’s food or entertainment). Since I don’t drink, it makes no sense to restrict me from going to a restaurant, concert, or even a bar.

     • By which I mean to say, if you want to outlaw carrying while drunk then outlaw carrying while drunk. Or even drinking while carrying. But don’t ban being the room while carrying, for goodness sake. There’s nothing problematic about people who aren’t drinking carrying while near people who are drinking. Heck, you’re probably more likely to need it around people who have been drinking.

       • It’s one of my few nitpicks with AZ law, as well. Restaurant carry is OK with a permit (unless they have a sign), but you can’t enter any establishment that serves alcohol without one (constitutional carry).

         Trouble is, there are places that have gotten liquor licenses just to bump up revenue, like Chipotle and their Patron margaritas (really?), or a little indy coffee shop near me that stocks a few microbrews for their dinner audience. So I need a permit (no, thanks) or to disarm to go get eggs and coffee for breakfast. Worse, neither of these places is somewhere I’d expect to serve alcohol, and that fact isn’t posted at the door, so it’s very easy to accidentally break the law while stepping inside to see if it’s legal to be inside, especially when there’s no obvious reason to believe the place serves alcohol. Nevermind the actual fact that I’m not there for that, anyway!

       • That’s exactly the law in Missouri. No restriction on carrying in a bar or drinking; but being “intoxicated” with a loaded weapon is a felony.

         Only grey area is the law says “intoxicated”, most would agree that’s a 0.08 BAC which is the state limit for drunk driving, but it doesn’t specifically say.

       • @SpeleoFool there’s actually an exception to AZ law stating that stepping in to find out if an establishment is a licensee without drinking anything is an affirmative defense to breaking that law.

2. God I can’t wait till Donald Trump is elected into office and makes Legal to carry in any state Reciprocity. You can tell that all they did was Rearrange a couple things so that they have more control over who’s carrying in their state and where they can carry more that you can’t bring your firearm to work with you you have to leave it in the trunk of the car locked up That’s ridiculous So is that state’s legislature!

   • I’m sure I’ll get appropriately flamed if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Donald Trump has historically been a big friend of the 2A…

     • Historically, no, but now that he’s running for the Republican nomination for President of the United States of America he loves the 2nd Amendment. For now.

       • “Historically, no, but now that he’s running for the Republican nomination for President of the United States of America he loves the 2nd Amendment. For now.”

         And that doesn’t sound off alarms to you????

         lol.

     • I don’t care about “historically”.

   • Why would you think any president would be able to just make that a law?

     • Well, maybe he can just get a pen and a phone…

   • So you think President Trump would create laws all by himself, without congressional involvement, just like our current POTUS?

     • Oh I’m sure he would, just probably not a national reciprocity law…

   • Someone skipped civics class. And believes politicians, too!

   • I just love Trumpsters. Look the Donald is not electable. There are plenty of actual Conservatives like me who won’t be voting for him. For him to make up for people like me he will have to attract Democrats which means he will have to promise them free stuff. So he will be running as amother Hillary style Democrat.

     • Let’s pretend it’s 2016 and its Trump vs. Clinton – You would rather Hilary get elected then vote for Trump?

       I’m genuinely intrigued by this. I’d have voted 50x for the liberal PoS Romney if I could have… But 3M people stayed home and Obama got re-elected.

3. ‘As of October 15, Maine no longer recognizes any out-of-state handgun license from states that do not recognize a Maine concealed handgun license.’

   Never been to Maine, but it looks like I’m good – Iowa recognizes permits from all 50 states (even New Jersey).

   • How about D.C. permits?

     • Good question, the law says ‘any state’, so maybe not.

   • Even New Jersey permits!? Well, I guess I would recognize unicorn if I saw one.

4. Just to clarify.. You can carry in bars as long as you are not intoxicated and as long as the bar isn’t clearly posted to prohibit firearms. Also what was mentioned in the article about the cars isn’t actually a restriction, LePage passed a law saying that companies couldn’t prohibit someone with a concealed carry permit from keeping a firearm in their car on company property as long as it was hidden and the car was locked. Just a law protecting people from stupid company policies that protect no one except possibly the criminals that don’t give a crap. By the way I live in Maine and am enjoying the new constitutional carry law very much! 🙂

   • Just to clarify … if you mind your own business you can CC in any bar, anywhere, drunk or sober, with or without a license of any sort, worrying about what some dipshit legislator “meant” when he/she wrote a particular passage is ridiculous. When you are required to shoot someone, then worry about the fine points, if you are still alive. Just do not protect anyone other than your self/family.

5. I applied for a Maine non-resident permit the other day. This article doesn’t include all the information one needs to know about carrying a concealed handgun in Maine. Note that you also need a permit to carry a firearm when hunting during archery season. Links:

   —Maine State Police CCW permit website. Has the essential links, including links to application materials, the official Maine CCW handbook, and an FAQ.
   —Official summary of Constitutional Carry law changes. Very usefully notes where you cannot carry without a permit and where you cannot carry at all. Better formatted 2-page PDF here.
   —Link to the actual Constitutional Carry law. This shows the changes in the legal text.
   —Relevant deer archery law if you’re wondering by what they mean by you needing a permit for “Regular archery hunting-deer only”. I’m not a lawyer, but it seems that if you’re in the woods with a bow and arrow and firearm during archery season on deer and you have a hunting license you’re breaking the law unless you have a valid CCW permit. Even if you’re not deer hunting, if you’re out hunting any species of game it’s a crime. Having a hunting license is probably grounds for Maine to assume you’re hunting if you’re out in the woods with a bow.
   —Handgunlaw.us Maine CCW laws overview
   —NRA Maine firearms laws summary. Shows a map which states recognize Maine’s permit and which other state’s permits Maine recognizes.

6. Does constitutional carry apply to non residents? There’s scuttlebut going round that it only applies to residents.

   • I live in NH. I also looked into the new Maine law and it was also my understanding the constitutional carry only applied to Maine residents.
     Can a lawyer type please clarify this?

     • Any person over 21 not otherwise prohibited from owning a handgun may conceal a handgun in Maine, residency, nationality, citizenship have nothing to do with it. Hell, even ET could legally carry provided he was old enough and not prohibited. The Statute as written simply makes the criteria for carrying and the criteria for possessing/owning the same. (nearly the same, the age thing)

       • Aussiefella sees this and thinks, the freedom is so close, yet so far.

         New England is a puuurdy part of the world though.

7. If this is accurate, then a Mainer can carry in Georgia. We have mutual reciprocity. You honor ours, we honor yours. Dumb move by Maine!

   • shoot … not enough coffee. I meant to write “If this is accurate, then a Mainer CANNOT carry in Georgia …”

8. Auto reciption is not an mistake to have too …………

   • I can haz clarification?

     • He’s saying that it’s not a mistake to also have auto reciption.

       Did that help?

       • How is that different from semi-auto reciption?

9. Maine has never recognized Florida’s CCW license, to my knowledge. I know that was the case five years ago when I spent a week there on vacation.

10. Just further evidence that the current mish-mash of gun laws is an inherent infringement on the RKBA in this country. All you have to do is step across an imaginary boundary line and you’re breaking a law. Is it any wonder that many choose not to carry out of fear of going to jail? Imagine, we consider ours a free country but can be thrown in jail for the crime of exercising our right at the wrong place or wrong time.

    • National constitutional carry should already be the law if we accept the 2nd + 14th. Or at least one can make a good argument for that. Of course, even if that argument was accepted by the SCOTUS, or a Federal law was passed to that effect, my guess is you’ll still get local law enforcement doing whatever they want. Well, one step at a time I guess. First establish national carry as law, then worry about enforcing the law on rogue LEOs.

11. It would be really nice of our next (hopefully Republican) president to at least eliminate the riculousness of not being able to carry in Federal buildings or on Fed. government property. That way were not breaking the law everytime we go into a post office… The president could get rid of the Federal restrictions pretty easily I would think.

    And yes, national recipricocity would be nice also. I am not sure on the best way to approach this topic without infringing on states’ rights however.

    • States rights have already been pretty thoroughly trashed. Anyway, if the 14th protects 1st amendment rights in all states, it should protect the RTKBA. Of course, it doesn’t protect 1st amendment rights in all states, as some bakers, florists, and photographers would be happy to tell you. Anyway, lack of respect for rule of law by government officials (and perhaps it’s worst manifestation, selective enforcement) is a more general issue that would need to get fixed before a law could actually fix issues of RTKBA.

      • Agreed. States rights have certainly been trampled, hence why I am reluctant to just have the Feds force feed a national recipricocity law on them, however, I really want national recipricocity and national constitional carry.

      • 1st Amendment rights are (in theory) protected from “congress making a law”, but not from states’ making a law. 2A rights are protected from “infringement”, regardless of who is infringing. According to the document, paying no attention to SCOTUS.

        • True that — it’s the most powerful restriction in the Bill of Rights. But the courts have gone the lazy route of deciding that it just means the same thing as the others (as though the Framers didn’t choose words carefully).

          The absolute “shall not be infringed” applies universally, because it gives no limit.

12. Maines growing a set of balls(at least for a NE state). They were also one of the states, unlike CA, to reject mandatory vaccines for school kids earlier this year following the massive pharmaceutical PR Disneyland campaign.

    • You talk about not requiring vaccination as if it’s a good thing. You get enough idiots to believe vaccines cause autism and suddenly herd immunity falls apart, and the kids who can’t be vaccinated due to actual medical conditions are put at risk by kids who’s parents are morons.

      Your right to not believe in science doesn’t trump my kids right to not have polio.

      • The saddest thing is when people say things like this, is that the manufacturers themselves have listed autism as a possible adverse event on some of their products. And herd immunity? Why don’t you support that statement with some reproducible scientific validation of vaccine induced herd immunity. I’ll save you some time, it doesn’t exist. Vaccine induced herd immunity is a theory, actually a guess, that gets repeated so many times that people believe it. Prove me wrong.

      • And if your vaccines work, then what do you care who gets vaccinated? Your rights stop when they infringe on others, You can’t require other people to play Russian roulette with a vaccine needle to allegedly protect other people or as in your case, to make you feel safer. Your argument is exactly the tripe the antis throw at gun owners all day long….long on emotion, and short on fact.

      • If we lose 10 million, think how wonderfully the welfare rolls would be affected! The US would function much better with 150 million instead of 310 million, continually wishing for more, and more, and more people will eventually lead to 40 people living in YOUR HOUSE! Does that sound like fun? We need to start working on incentives for fewer children, rather than for more.

        • You have it backwards Larry, the only incentives that exist for more children are designed to increase the number of children in welfare/poorer families.

        • 150 million would be too few for the country to work. A 10% drop would be risky — but I bet we could survive a 7.55 loss with just some bumps.

          The places where the population needs to drop to help the planet seriously are Africa, India, and China. If you really want to help the U.S., a plague killing off 5% of our population but 15% of Mexico’s would be most effective.

13. This makes 39 states with my Ohio permit. Unfortunately to get to Maine I would have to travel through New York…

    • Yep, I love Maine but being from PA my quickest route takes me through NJ, NY, CT, and MA. I can avoid some with a slower route, but not all. I’ve been leaving the gun at home already, so nothing changes for me.

    • To be fair they do make these things called airplanes

      • More to the point, concealed is concealed.

      • What I meant there is, I have carried a loaded firearm every single time I was in downtown NYC. Which was once, for an hour or so, but the world did not fall apart, since concealed is concealed. If I had been attacked, I would have shot to kill, but otherwise it was nobody’s business but my own. And then I passed through several other gun-free paradises, before returning along the same path.

14. This is another very bizarre manifestation of the lack of reciprocity. No offense to Maine, but most people travel to other states to see tourist attractions. Like Acadia National Park and the state parks. You can have one of those out of state permits and carry a weapon into (horrors!) a grocery store or movie theater but not into a state park? Yet if you have a permit from a different state you can carry in a state park? And yet there is constitutional carry which may or may not include non-residents? Utterly insane.

15. I can’t believe the knee-jerk reactions based on not having all the information. The legislation is not ideal – but it is a huge step in the right direction. Also makes for a great FU to Bloomberg. A lot of people from NY, MA, CT visit Maine. I am sure at least some will notice the minimal restrictions on guns has not led to bloody streets and bodies stacked like cordwood. This was a victory for civil rights.

    As others have mentioned above, if you can legally possess a handgun in Maine, you can carry it however you choose – open, concealed, loaded, etc. Note that this mostly doesn’t change WHERE you can legally possess a handgun (post office, court house, schools, etc.). Visitors get to enjoy this relatively unfettered exercise of their rights as well. Assuming they can get their gun past NY or airline rules…

    Now, the legislation is not perfect. The Acadia, state parks, age limit, veteran carve-out, LEO notification, etc. is all pointless in practice. But, those little tidbits were important for getting the legislation passed. It allowed fence-sitters, and a cranky governor, to feel like they did something. Hopefully we ditch the prohibition on school property in the next legislative session.

    Before you complain, how many restrictions will I face if I visit your state?

16. Who knows better what the Second Amendment means than OUR Founding Fathers? Here are some powerful gun quotations from the Founding Fathers themselves.

    The writers of the Constitution chose their words carefully. Any law which in any way hinders the RIGHT of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms is illegal, unlawful and unConstitutional. ALL gun control laws are illegal, unlawful and unConstitutional. A law creating multitple definitions and divisions of “militia” does not override the 2nd amendment.

    “A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…” – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both Houses of Congress, January 8, 1790

    “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    “The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    “On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    “I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “The thoughtful reader may wonder, why wasn’t Jefferson’s proposal of ‘No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms’ adopted by the Virginia legislature? They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin, “Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor”, November 11, 1755

    “To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.” – George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    “I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.” – George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    “Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.” – Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

    “Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.” – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

    “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.” – James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

    “…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…” – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

    “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

    “A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

    “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able should have a gun.” – Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

    “This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.” – St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

    “The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.” – Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

    “The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

    “The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.” – Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

    “What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

    “For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

    “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

    “[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

    “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article [the 2nd Amendment] in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” – Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

    ~ Militia required by law ~

    The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, the supreme law of the United States, is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the American people to keep and bear arms and to form a militia.

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the RIGHT of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”

    The right “to keep and bear arms” means an individual has the right to own and carry weapons anywhere and at any time in the United States of America. The “Shall not be infringed” means the government can never make any laws to infringe this right. Why? Because a militia, a military force composed of the whole people, the ordinary citizens is necessary to the security of a free State.

    What Jews say about “gun-control”:

    “I support abolishing self-defense. No one has the right to take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. Everyone who is arming themselves for self-defense are wrong. I’m in favor of broad controls on guns. If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.” ~ In a speech to a Jewish audience at the Jewish Community Center of Creve Coeur, Harvard Jew Alan Dershowitz

    The American Jewish Committee brags about the number of Gun Control Laws they have helped to ram through, or rather, “buy.” According to their own Website:

    — “The AJC has a long history of supporting Gun Control Laws, including the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, the Federal Assault Weapon Control Act of 1989, and the Brady Handgun Prevention Act of 1993.”

    • [i]What Jews say about “gun-control”: [/i]
      [b]
      To what Jews to you refer?[/b] All Jews, or specifically [i]Harvard Jew Alan Dershowitz?[/i]

17. “What Jews say about “gun-control”: ”

    To what Jews do you refer? All Jews, or specifically “Harvard Jew Alan Dershowitz?”

18. I liked your entire post
    I had read several of those quotes before and enjoyed the new ones.
    Then you lost me at what the Jews say about guns.
    The prime minister of Israel just called for all Jewish citizens to carry their guns at all times.
    Jews for preservation of firearms ownership is a pro gun group here in the U.S.A

19. Constitutional Carry, you keep using that phrase, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

20. http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/licenses/documents/Weapons/LD%20868%20as%20law.pdf

    Fucking Texas law….

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