Marines: We Still Don’t Want Guns On Our Bases

1. So tl;dr, we heard you but it went in one ear and out the other.

   • Short version: We are fine with you fodder being defenseless victims, current security instructions provide adequate protection for 0-5 and above.

     • What they’re actually saying is, nothing has changed. Literally, everything listed in this order has been base policy on Camp Pendleton for ten plus years.

       Also, although personally owned firearms aren’t allowed in the BEQ, lets look at this from the young Lance Corporal’s viewpoint.

       1. I must keep my guns in the battalion armory. The only time I have free time to shoot is on the weekend. The armory is closed on the weekend. Thus, I effectively have no access to my weapons.

       2. I can keep my guns with my friend who is married and lives off base. (Many do this)

       3. Although it’s against the rules, I can keep my guns in my car. The problem is that every so often cars entering base are randomly selected to be searched. If, during this search my guns are discovered, I’m screwed in a big way.

       4. Although it’s against the rules, I can keep my guns in my barracks room. As long as my roommate isn’t a douche, he won’t squeal on me. As long as I’m careful to keep my wall locker locked whenever there’s a walk through, I’m theoretically pretty safe.

       There’s rules about what you can search in the barracks, and thus most inspections are labeled “health and comfort”. The inspecting NCO, SNCO or officer may not inspect anything that’s secured when they come in. Unlocked drawers, lockers and cabinets are fair game though.

       So this is what most Marines do. I never did, but when I was in the infantry (Marines) there were probably 3-5% of the Marines that I knew of who kept personal firearms in the barracks, and I’m sure there were a few more who did that I never heard about. The only time where it’s really possible to get screwed over on this is if somebody messes up and causes the wrath of God to come down on the battalion.

       Case in point. for a few months, battalion suspected there were drugs circulating around the battalion. I never saw any evidence of this, but it’s possible for some turds I suppose. So what do they do? They wait until 3 or 4 am and pull the fire alarm. The duty NCO walks up and down the deck and tells everybody to unlock their wall lockers and leave their rooms unlocked before assembling outside the barracks. MPs then roll through with dogs and toss the rooms. Any contraband is then piled outside and the Bn SgtMaj or respective Co. 1st Sgt picks it up and yells at us.

       The funniest moment I’ve ever witnessed is when they dumped a huge green dildo with our company’s name written on it. It was a novelty item we’d all seen and laughed about because in the military you’re always worried about “avoiding the green weenie”.

       Any way, all I’m going to say about the order that just got published, is that nothing changed.

       • “… The inspecting NCO, SNCO or officer may not inspect anything that’s secured when they come in. Unlocked drawers, lockers and cabinets are fair game though. …”

         Wait, what? When did this happen? When I joined the AF back in the eighties I lived in the dorms during school and the first six months after I PCS’d.

         Drug dogs were a common sight and so were people getting their rooms searched. Dog alerts on your door, you stand outside the door at-ease, anything the SP want to see as they toss your room they get to see whether it’s locked or otherwise.

       • This happened in the late 90s.

   • I expected more of the Marine Command Structure; just a bunch of pantywaists like all the rest of military command.

     I can OC a gun here in NM without a permit into Mcdonalds, Starbucks, most restaurants, stores, out in the open; wave at cops as I stop in Dunkin Donuts to use their WIFI; but trained Marines, soldiers, a number that have seen combat; can’t be trusted to carry a weapon on a military base.

     Yeah, just a bunch of pantywaists.

     • The good officers have been purged.

       • A lot of us “purged” ourselves.
         CAPT, USN, (Retired)

     • I noticed Bass Pro Shop here in Hampton Roads Virginia has a sign saying they want you to check your gun with customer service. Anyone else see that where they are? It wasn’t there a week ago.

       • Standard Bass Pro policy. They want to unload and zip-tie it.

       • Ours has a sign requesting the same. However it exempts lawful concealed carry. The local Gander is the same way.

       • Cabelas has the same policy.

       • Part of the reason they do that is help prevent theft of one of their guns. If you were allowed to carry your own gun around without a tie on it, then security may have a tough time realizing someone just walked out with one of their guns.

         With that in mind, that policy doesn’t bother me. I CC in both Cabela’s and Pro-Bass all the time. Never a problem.

       • They sell boots there too, right? Watches as well. Maybe we should be forced to surrender everything they sell there, you know, for security reasons…

       • At Cabella’s in CT, I was told it’s not for your concealed pistol, if you have a permit. It’s for the rifle you want to show the guy in the firearms section because they don’t want an ND at the counter.

       • What Anon said. I’ve open carried into Bass Pro and Gander. The check in is for guns you are actually having work done on.

       • It’s totally a loss prevention/safety thing. They want to make sure that any weapon that an employee might be handling is unloaded and you can’t easily walk out with one from the shelf. I’ve OCd at Green Top in Richmond while my brother’s AR was inspected at the door.

     • You may want to scratch Starbucks off your list. The day they announced this “cave to the gun-grabbers” policy is the first day of them never getting a dime out of my hard earned money.

       http://www.starbucks.com/blog/an-open-letter-from-howard-schultz-ceo-of-starbucks-coffee-company/1268

       • You know, it’s not like a corporate memo has the force of law. Here in VA, at least, no signs have gone up and I still carry when I feel like buying an overpriced coffee drink.

     • ThomasR: well, Sir, you beclown yourself with these words:
       “I expected more of the Marine Command Structure; just a bunch of pantywaists like all the rest of military command.”
       for you clearly don’t know much about the Marines.

       If there is one branch where the respect from the top down to the individual grunt is enshrined, and honored, more- I would like to know which one it is- any country. Any Marine here knows what I am talking about. Every Marine a Rifleman.

       And to echoe what Mr Rivera said- yep, no changes there from when I looked this over myself closely about 4 years ago to hunt on base. Notice the dates on the references in beginning of message- all older, none updated.

       So that is a measure of trust and respect- no change, no new rules to babysit the young warriors.

       I’m not arguing if its right- but I defer to the Marines to run their business, and I am reminding civilians that the Commandant of the Marine Corps works for the Commander in Chief. And thats as it should be.

       If you dont like the rules, call your Congress Critters and elect someone with some common sense, and think about this next election – dont vote for a doggone community organizer with no real work experience and no military experience.

       • Yeah, you try telling that 0311 rifleman that everyone else in the Corp is also a rifleman….

   • Bottom line is this – We have relieved you of your responsibility for your own safety and well-being, while mandating that you be safe and well, in being, but also take not responsibility for your safety or well-being…best of luck.

2. I have found that field-grade officers and above are as often as not as big a sack of dipshit as any politician.

   • Twenty one years of Naval Service taught me the truth of the adage that “Everything above O-5 is all politics.”

     • ^^^ Universal truth.

3. All I could see in that text was “I’m a good general Mr. President and totally onboard with whatever anti-gun policy you want me to enforce. Please don’t fire me next.”

   • Never in the field of human conflict has so much boilerplate been summarized so well, for so many, by so few.

4. So, this reads exactly like air force policy, 5 years ago. no changes in regulation. pity.

5. how soon before the arm forces have to draft again? who would volunteer to be defenseless?

6. You would think, with trillion dollar budgets, that the military could afford a keyboard with lowercase letters.

   • HA!

   • There is history to why the military uses all CAPS in their messages. It is because, in prior times, the printers/typewriters were not capable of lowercase letters.

     The tradition has continued (with annoyance).

     • I was going to ask what regulation requires these missives to be as obtuse as possible.

       • Ron Burgundy is reading this while shouting.

   • Yeah, when I read that all I could think of was R Lee Ermey shouting it word for word at me.

   • The message traffic system goes back to almost WWII, and eventually incorporated the earliest optical character readers long before personal computers came around. This is a legacy of that system, and it’s kind of an embarrassment that the government still uses that system for critical and official messages. Robert helped a lot by putting paragraph breaks in.

   • I will confess I did not read this post for this exact reason. In the military, I have to cross my eyes reading all caps until I’m blind much too often.

     • Convertcase.net worked beautifully.

7. Or “Domestic Vietnam: the Stars and Bars Still Know Jack Sh!t but Want to Feel Important”

8. Notable that Marines may not defend their home with arms (including gov’t provided family quarters) as all firearms must be locked away and ammunition locked in a separate container. This would be all ranks.

   NOTE this would apply to and Officer or NCO as well.

   ANY Field grade or General officer serving is a creation of the progressives in the demcrap or RINO party. They “believe” whatever Obuma tells them to they think or they are out of a job and likely a pension. Note the wholesale purge of the officer corp by the Kenyan Eunuch over the last couple years.

9. there are a few possibile explanations.

   1. The people in charge sincerely want the general personel to be defenseless in the event of an attack.

   2. The people in charge believe that the general personel are likely to carry out premeditated malicious acts against them if they are allowed to carry guns on base.

   3. The people in charge believe that losses due to negligence, recklessness and “crimes of passion” when the general personel are armed would be greater than the losses due to the attacks we are sustaining at present.

   I will assume most people on this site will purport to believe in the first two.

   • Losses due to Item #3, while generally downplayed in the media, happen as frequently on military installations as anywhere else, and just as frequently with unregistered, technically illegal firearms in what is supposed to be a gun free zone. Military regulations are no more effective at preventing criminal activity than are civilian laws.

   • There is a difference in that we train our Marines to be very aggressive, albeit with discipline. The fear is perhaps that in emotional times the discipline breaks down and the inculcated agression remains.

     I think that’s BS, but I suspect that is the logic being used.

10. This is typical of the bureaucratic thinking that plagues the Armed Services. Everything is a potential liability based upon a perceived risk, and commanders are in a race to mitigate the perceived risk before someone beats them to it and earns the credit. What a miserable existence….

11. Well, except the odd one or two every once in a while.

12. If there are people in the Marine Corps who can’t be trusted with firearms, they need to be discharged immediately. This policy is loony.

    P.S. Please get keyboards that have functional caps lock keys.

13. Thank you!

14. Why is anyone surprised by this? I can’t even go for a run on base in broad daylight unless I’m wearing a reflective vest. The military is VERY risk averse.

    • Or ride a motorcycle.

      • Negative. A reflective vest while on a motorcycle is post specific. Most Army posts require it, many Marine or Navy stations do not.

        • The Marines have finally gotten rid of the requirement for reflective vests, and they justified it on an anti-terrorism rationale. Only the military wears the stupid vests, therefore anyone wearing a vest is a target.

15. Strange.

    Since Camp Pendleton has an active gun club on base. No one has ever checked weapons at the gate and I know a few members who carry concealed to the range.

    • Hey Noah, I hunt Camp Pendleton a bit, so I have done some homework, and dont want to let your insinuation that irresponsible gun owners are some-how ok on the base. No disrespect, but if it is, its low key and certainly not coming from the retired DOD, MIL and others in what are not quite “clubs”.

      There is a Skeet and Trap Range – and an outdoor pistol range open sometimes on weekends. Thats not a club, and its run by the Marine Corps Exchange, and I know they are very safety oriented, lots of really good shooters who are happy to help newbs. Best deal going in So Cal.

      There is also a “Sportsmans Club” – but its not a gun club, per se, just a collection of guys who get together once a month and talk about stuff, get an update from the Game Wardens, mostly close to hunting season and sometimes volunteer to help out with outdoors events- showing kids how to fish, etc, and little projects the Wardens need help with- brushing blinds, etc. The archers have built a pretty cool target and 3D range on some empty land, will all free labor and donations over the course of a couple years.

      I know a bit about those guys as I helped out for a couple years and NEVER heard anyone talk about CCW or do anything but be a good model for responsible hunting.

      There’s also a Santa Margarita Gun Club- but again this is an off-base group that shoots long guns for NRA Match type competition, using one of the rifle ranges when its closed for training one weekend a month. Also VERY professional group, safety oriented- lots of experienced folks who will help a newb.

      VERY professional Game Wardens too- LEO trained, low-key good guys, but very experienced, hunters most of them, and most retired USMC, who understand young Marines very well- bend over backward to help you avoid pulling a dumb-$hit, and strict when needed otherwise.

      YMMV of course.

      • Did I ever say that there are irresponsible gun owners let onto the base? NO. I am stating that most of the time the gate guards don’t check for weapons, nor ask. I am also stating that many folks carry concealed on base (active MIL, retired MIL, and some LEO/reserve MIL personnel who shoot on base).

        All you said I know is true. I’ve hunted, shot skeet/trap/5-stand on range 107, pistol on wilcox, and belong to SMGC as a high power shooter… as well as being RSO/ammo handler certified on Pendleton and Army bases for the past 12 years.

        Don’t construe my post to think otherwise.

16. Rumor mill someone just got shot on camp Lejeune N C. Watch this space

17. I’m surprised they didn’t ban private ownership of guns entirely.

18. “3.A.11. COMMANDERS WILL ENSURE ALL PERSONNEL UNDERSTAND AND COMPLY WITH THE CONTENTS OF THIS MARADMIN.”

    I can only assume this means that the “Commander” will accept full responsibility when “personnel” decide not to “comply” and opt for, “fuck it, I’m outta dis bitch and I’m takin’ some peeps wit me”, then?

19. read it again, you MAY have a personal weapon in family quarters, Not in billets, BEQ or BOQ It’s not up to a post commander or really any commander, it must first pass through DOD, then Federal Law must be amended. Because Military bases are Federal. I don’t think every Pvt Snuffy needs to carry a personal weapon at all times. If, and I don’t think it will happen, there would have to be mountains of paperwork, determining who gets to concealed carry on post. And where and when.
    Should all recruits have a small 380 during “Hell Week” Do we need or .40S&W for an obstacle course? Want soldiers carrying a 9MM Glock to your retirement ceremony?
    There is NO security anywhere that will protect you against one crazy person, be it a postal worker, military, union worker, or student. When armed groups start attacking our military bases or schools, then we will be armed with assigned weapons M16s, and such.

    • Really? So just because someone is an E-1, they should not be responsible for their own safety?

      Belong to the Brady Bunch? Sounds like it after reading your post.

      • Noah, that does bring up an interesting question.
        At what age should the enlisted be allowed to carry firearms for self-defense?
        I think a maturity factor might come in to play, but I don’t know.
        For instance in my state there is an age limit for carrying a handgun (open or concealed),
        and that’s 21.
        I am for concealed carry on college campuses.
        Some students are as young as 17.
        I don’t think a 17 year old should be carrying at all.
        However, certainly think that if the good people of Oklahoma deem that a 21 year old is old enough to carry on the public city streets, he or she should be old enough (and safe enough) to carry on a college campus, or even a military base.
        Most people’s brains don’t really develop to make adult decisions until they are 25. That’s why I don’t think anybody should be allowed to get married until they are about 25.
        But that’s just me.

20. I would if General Mattis would have handled this differently? He was a warriors generals, completely opposite from the pog politician commandant we have now

    • LOL, keep telling yourself that.

21. As was mentioned before, its all about numbers. They figure the odds of a mass shooting pale next to the odds of aggravated murder, suicide, or accidental death or damage. It sucks, but I believe they are probably correct. But as someone was, when I lived on base, was not suicidal or homicidal, it sucks.

22. The problem with living on base is you get to play by the Commanders’ rules.
    I would think that a quick opening safe is permitted under the housing rules.

    You have to give the commanders some concern for young, boozing hot tempered guys and their wifes and children and keeping accidents down to a minimum.

    Course if they were really concerned about base security there would be a QRF within sight of any gate on the base….

23. To retired Joe I was a Private with a ccw and could protect myself off base, I am my own security. I was a grunt and when I became an NCO if I didn’t trust my men to protect themselves why would I trust them to protect me?

24. This isn’t much different than the policy 30 years ago. Can anyone point out the changes?

    More of a reminder.

25. I think the big missed opportunity is NOT with the PERSONAL weapons but rather to issue duty weapons to those on watch. The Navy and Marine Corps have literally hundreds of men on duty at any given time on any base. They are supposed to be responsible for anything that happens within their area of control. For those who didn’t serve, here are the standing orders: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Orders_for_Sentries)

    1. To take charge of this post and all government property in view.
    2. To walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing.
    3. To report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce.
    4. To repeat all calls from posts more distant from the guardhouse (or the Quarterdeck) than my own.
    5. To quit my post only when properly relieved.
    6. To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me, all orders from the Commanding Officer, Command Duty Officer, Officer of the Day, Officer of the Deck, and Officers and Petty Officers of the watch only.
    7. To talk to no one except in the line of duty.
    8. To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder.
    9. To call the Corporal of the Guard or Officer of the Deck in any case not covered by instructions.
    10. To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased.
    11. To be especially watchful at night and during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post, and to allow no one to pass without proper authority.

    Enforcing these orders is a whole lot more credible with a firearm on the hip.

26. HOW DO THEY GET ANYTHING DONE READING DOCUMENTS WITH ALL CAPITAL LETTERS ALL DAY LONG? I BET HEADACHES ARE A COMMON THING AROUND THE OFFICES.

    • YA THINK?

27. So, they’re all still sitting ducks? How awesome is that? The infantilization of responsible adult citizens continues.

28. Exactly my point in “A Law Enforcement Perspective: Armed Carry on Military Bases”.

    The military is far stricter than anywhere else in this country when is come to privately owner firearms.
    They can do whatever they want because they are essentially all powerful when it come to their people. They say it and soldiers do it.
    The only thing Generals fear is not getting another star.
    Notice that this was ahead of anything DOD did. CYA in a big way.

29. Translation: “You are cannon fodder. Die quietly.”

30. No firearms in the barracks. Riiiight.
    If I had a dollar for every time I’d seen or heard of someone keeping guns in the BEQ…
    Well, I’d have at least enough for a pitcher or two.

31. I have the utmost respect for Marines. I had a lot of Marine buddies while I was in the Navy many years ago. But I have a problem with the brass who are morons.
    =========================================================
    The Marines are about he most disciplined guys of all the branches of the military. (No disrespect to the men and women of the other branches.)

    Sure,’s OK that we trust them enough to send them into battle fully armed to do OUR bidding
    for OUR defense,
    but for sake of an insane ideology we lay them on sacrificial alters
    because they can’t be trusted to exercise their own inalienable right to self-defense.

    They are trusted to fight for us in some foreign land, but
    can’t be trusted to fight for themselves on their own home soil?
    There something terrible wrong about that.

32. If our Founding Fathers have any afterlife awareness, they have to be wondering why they made all the sacrifices that they did, only for us to end up like this in just a couple hundred years. Pathetic.

33. Way back when I was in you could hunt on Base (Camp Lejune,N.C. ) you could buy discount ammo from the base sports, or rent a hunting, or trap gun. and the P.X. sold Rifles, but you could not keep guns or ammo stored on base, in the sleeping troops area’s . but I believe officers could…You could buy a pistol over sea’s , take it home, but it had to be stored till you returned home. And we all pulled guard duty with REAL pistol and rifle ammo….You could not keep any live ammo left over from any training, this was to keep people from taking government ammo home etc…but you could keep a private knife like a K-Bar or bowie for field use/ private use.

34. Trying to read this gave me old job flashbacks. It ain’t like I love my current job, but at least I can skim office memos without my eyes bleeding.

35. So you can’t do whatever you want on property that isn’t your own?

    Weird…..

    • Our first freedom-hater chimes in.

    • Ahem…you spelled “Property of the United States” wrong.

      All government property belongs to the citizens of the United States. You don’t give up your constitutionally protected rights by entering public property.

      Private property is another matter entirely.

36. Well, I’m sure that this continuing prohibition will most definitely stop the next whacko from opening fire on a military base… I mean, after all, it’s written right there in black & white (and all CAPS no less) that he’s simply NOT allowed to have guns on base!!

    So take that, you mass shooter!!

37. Just like police, anyone who is able to rise to command is generally more of a politician than soldier.

38. The message only highlights EXISTING rules and regulations for privately owned firearms on base. It’s obvious that the shooter (and shooters to come) don’t care about the rules. Dumb policy is dumb,

39. Its interesting that in a deployed location like Afghanistan or Iraq, every service member is armed… to the teeth…. 24/7!

    Yet when they return home its against the law for these same folks to carry, concealed or otherwise, on military installations. That makes no sense to me.

    The only reason I can imagine high-level brass standing behind this is because they have little faith in their subordinates to do the right thing. Fearing that those same heroes would somehow be more inclined to shoot someone once you take away the stress and anxiety of a war zone. In other words, it doesn’t make sense…

40. And right after this article was put out a Marine gets shot and killed at Camp Lejune. From what I’ve read the shooter was a fellow Marine who used a govt M4

41. Robert – You need to redact the phone numbers in the MSG.

42. WELL they never learn their lessons, looks like the killings will continue with the base police scratching their heads when they get to the murder 10 minutes TOO LATE!

    • The military is a carbon copy of outside the base government too, the police are always after the fact….and if someone wants to kill someone NO LAWS will stop it, now or EVER. that is the total problem with the gun control MYTH .It always was a fact that you could bring home any small arms taken on the battle fields and many millions of G.I.’s did and you know what ? crime was not caused by these many millions of firearms…….And when will congress get off their butts and bring home all the M1 and M1 carbines from Korea… are we free or SLAVES? and Hilary will make Hitler look like Sunday school … Wake up liberty is DEAD!

43. I spent 29 years in the Army. I still get pissed off when I read directives that are idiotic and that’s before I get beyond the fact I don’t like the premise.

    3.A.6. IN ALL CASES, PRIVATELY OWNED FIREARMS WILL BE STORED IN A FULLY ENCASED CONTAINER (E.G. COMMERCIAL GUN SAFE, HARD PLASTIC CASE, ETC.) THAT IS CAPABLE OF COMPLETELY ENCLOSING THE FIREARMS AND BEING LOCKED WITH A KEY OR COMBINATION LOCK. ALL FIREARMS WILL BE FITTED WITH A TRIGGER LOCK.

    3.A.7. AMMUNITION MUST BE STORED SEPARATELY FROM FIREARMS AND IN A CONTAINER CAPABLE OF BEING LOCKED WITH A KEY OR COMBINATION LOCK.

    So, trigger lock and then in a lockable container also. Okay.. I have a gun safe. May I take it out of the gun safe ever? Perhaps to defend myself? To place in another lockable container so that I may go to the range?

    But I don’t just have to have ONE lockable container but two, because the ammo must be stored seperately but locked also…. hmm.. what if they have matching locks with the same key? What, pray tell, do you consider “seperate”? But hold on… I don’t have to lock the containers… the containers just have to have the capability of being locked.

    WTF? Don’t any of you dumb@sses have a Napoleon’s Corporal
    to read your stupid missives before you send them out to the masses?

    • what was the DOD’s purpose for this stupid rule ? I was a single junior NCO living in the barracks. Why can’t soldiers be trusted to responsibly handle firearms ?

44. So, how does this jive with DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER 554 U.S. 570 (2008)? The USSC found the trigger lock requirement in the home to be unconstitutional.

45. Seems very odd that the military will trust these guys with loaded weapons out in the field all the time but not on the bases. More likely one of them will go Postal out in the field, I would think.

46. No change from policy from early 1980’s. Kept 30 plus rifles. shotguns, and pistols in SNCO barracks, until I got married. Did break rules on ammo since I wasn’t going to keep several thousand rounds in my truck.

    As for Officers! Some were good and the rest were Zero’s, (pay grade designation, ie 0-1, 0-2).

47. I served in the Marine Corps from 1967 to 1970, when I got out on an early release from Vietnam. I remember when Marines were trusted to keep their T/O weapons (rifles) in the barracks, locked with their own personal key or combination locks in a rifle rack down the center of the barracks squadbay. When I reentered the service in 1974, things had definitely changed: No longer were Marines allowed to keep their issued rifles anywhere but in the Armory. If you wanted to clean it, you checked it out, cleaned it on a table set up nearby for this purpose, and turned it back in. No longer could Squad Leaders fall their people out for impromptu drill/inspections or to practice combat formations and maneuvers bearing their weapons.

    Some where in time, we became infants, incapable of adult behaviors, and needed to be strictly controlled by the Head shed. The O-ranks took over for the NCO’s and the rest is history?

    Chesty, it’s too late and we’re saddened we let you down. It’s a brave(?) new world… RIP.

48. so just to ask. when did the bases start doing this? was this only in 2008 to present?

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