“Every one of the 2,500 police officers in this Mexican border city [Juarez] has been ordered to leave home and stay in a hotel after the killing of five officers by a local drug cartel,” the AP reports. “The gang threatened a week ago to kill one policeman a day unless Police Chief Julian Leyzaola resigns.” Hello? Eric? Mexico? Not ONCE in today’s Congressional investigation into Operation Fast and Furious—the ATF’s “Guns for Goons” program—did anyone mention the hundreds of Mexicans killed by the 2000+ firearms enabled by Uncle Sam’s black bag job. Nor did we hear about the tens of thousands of U.S. weapons sold to the Mexican government that’ve gone walkies (surprise surprise). Let’s try to see this in perspective . . .
While we share the Committee members’ righteous indignation at the Obama Administration’s complicity and coverup and in the death of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, it’s important to remember that the ATF’s “botched sting” was part of a wider conspiracy involving an alphabet soup of agencies to arm (and generally protect) one group of Mexican drug thugs against another. Or create a pro-gun control rationale in the U.S. Or both.
I have every confidence that’s what the withheld documents would show. I suspect that the DOJ would rather risk contempt of Congress than let the truth be told, especially where it concerns “Grenadewalker” and other supposed ancillary scandals. When it comes to smoking guns, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Literally. Meanwhile, disarmed Mexicans are busy learning the true meaning of cry the beloved country.
Truly sad, and truly possible here in if we allow liberal thinking to create gun control in the US.
Early on, EH called America a nation of cowards. Rather, it is government that is a regime of gangsters. If a local gang can get all 2,500 city police officers to check into a hotel imagine what the big cartels can do.
So much for the, “they’re out there putting their lives on the line for us” theory.
The Mexican cops aren’t checking into hotels because they’re scared. No siree. Ya see, there are a lot of vacant hotel rooms in Mexico these days, and this is the new Calderon stimulus package for the hospitality industry.
Most likely funded by Tim Geithner in a rogue, big sibling treasury scheme to ATF’s schemes. The likes of MikeB fail to see that our gov’t departments and agencies have become far more dangerous and destructive than the insignificant number of civilians committing crimes of any sort.
Can we legalize the drugs already? Nope, too many people making too much money.
Why not legalize drugs? The Government has made illegal aliens legal. They should get even more votes from the illegal drugs legals. While we are at it, let us do away with a few other pesky laws also, like the ones that punish people, if the law can catch them, that break into homes, kill people, rape, what kind of law is that? I mean after all, rape is a no brainer, damn women just asking for it, right?? Less laws, less crime, turn our people free!!!!!!!! And, making pedophiles criminals??, come on…..”What are laws good for? Absolutely nothing…..”
Why not make everything illegal? Alcohol kills thousands of people on the roads each year, not to mention injuring countless others on and off the roads, let’s pass a constitutional amendment. It worked so well in the past. In face, cars are inherently dangerous, let’s prohibit them. And showers, people slip and fall in the shower every day, they should be against the law.
The problem with your example is this-in the absence of prohibition, the act of one person taking a drug has almost no impact on any other person. The act of rape, on the other hand, has a very profound affect on another person and as much as I try to not care about internet commentators I find that to be a profoundly offensive analogy.
I can’t imagine a faster way to make these drug cartels go away faster than to just legalize drugs. They would lose all of their profits over night.
“the act of one person taking a drug has almost no impact on any other person”
I think it depends to a degree on the type of drug. I’m ok with legalizing marijuana. Heck, the hemp plant will be good for the economy with all the things that can be made from it. When it comes to hard drugs such as meth and crack cocaine I think there is far more of a problem usage can directly and indirectly affect other people and society as a whole. FYI, I’m no expert on drugs.
As long as there are criminals this is what gun control will ultimately result in. Let’s all join in a round of applause for Eric Holder for destabilizing our neighbors to the south and helping the cartels murder their citizens.
Robert, you’re as bad as the Sipsey Street gang. What is the percentage of the guns you think the ATF trafficked of all guns trafficked or all guns there in Mexico?
It’s nothing, that’s what it is. You love to point out how few kids are killed with guns, percentage-wise, but you keep pretending the ATF is responsible for something significant. They aren’t.
But Mike, ATF is your supposedly competent and responsible, altruistic gov’t agency that will save us all from ourselves. How can you imply that anything they do is insignificant? Your ability to contradict yourself matches theirs. Your solutions are equally as ill-conceived as theirs.
Tell that to the family of Brian Terry. Meanwhile, does the word Waco mean anything to you? Ruby Ridge? In fact, I’d have a look at the wikipedia entry for the ATF before I shot my mouth off (so to speak). Read the “History of Controversy” section, come back here and share your thoughts. I’m not kidding Mike. I fully expect you to return to this thread with your thoughts. I’ve had enough of you “hit and run” commenting.
Your describing my commenting as “hit and run” makes as much sense as Moonshine or Silver calling me a troll. As Frank Zappa said to Susie Creamcheese, “What’s go into ya?”
Respond to the Wikipedia entry on the ATF please. Do you think still think the Bureau’s activities—gun running in the Fast and Furious case and corruption and persecution historically—are “insignificant”? If so, compared to what?
Mike, don’t leave me out. I’ve called you a troll too.
Oh, and you want me to write something about Ruby Ridge and Wako or the evils of the ATF, I may take you up on that. I’ll let you know.
Would it be ok if I use some of your guys’ language about the percentages whenever we talk about kids dying?
Or, are you sayin’ that kids dying from gunshots are a tiny minority of all the gun violence, but the ATF is truly all about Fast and Furious and Waco and Ruby Ridge?
Are YOU saying that kids dying from gunshots is permissible, so long as the ATF is pulling the trigger?
Yes. The ATF is all about persecuting American gun owners. Their record on that issue is clear. If you remain skeptical, ask yourself this: what was the point of F&F? The ATF never followed the guns. There was never any chance that they’d arrest the “big fish” in Mexico. Or America, for that matter. So why did they do it? And assuming as we must (the proof is in) that the DOJ knew about it, why did they allow guns to walk? What was the point? What’s the point of the ATF?
Robert, I would think the misdeeds of the ATF are only a tiny fraction of their overall output. Some people got killed, yes, but you seem to be saying that’s their raison d’etre. I don’t believe it is.
So a law enforcement agency tasked with PROTECTING THE PUBLIC is in the right for aiding the murder of hundreds of Mexicans as well as US agents? Wow. I guess this is why you support gun control.
There was never any chance that they’d arrest the “big fish” in Mexico. Or America, for that matter. So why did they do it? And assuming as we must (the proof is in) that the DOJ knew about it, why did they allow guns to walk? What was the point?
To set the stage for semi auto weapon bans so that the Chicago politician mentality could be spread nation wide.
Mikeys not beyond exploiting a small statistic for his cause. But don’t let a big statistic like 70 million gun owners change his position that gun owners are some small minority.
GS, Take that 70 million and remove the ones who actually want more gun control. Then remove all those who couldn’t care less one way or another. Then tell us how many of you there are.
The small minority are the ones who give a damn. And the TINY minority are guys like you who can be labelled gun rights extremists.
Ah yes more imagined statistics, I missed these. Can we make up our own statistics too or would that be too much?
I’ve read that 113% of gun control proponents wet their beds, start fires and torture small animals.
From Wikipedia:
Operation Fast and Furious, by far the largest “gunwalking” probe, led to the sale of over 2,000 firearms, of which fewer than 700 were recovered as of October 20, 2011
By June 2010, suspects had purchased 1,608 firearms at a cost of over US$1 million at Phoenix-area gun shops. At that time, the ATF was also aware of 179 of those weapons being found at crime scenes in Mexico, and 130 in the US.[8] As guns traced to Fast and Furious began turning up at violent crime scenes in Mexico, ATF agents stationed there also voiced opposition.[3]
MikeB, your question is irrelevant. The percentage of guns that the cartels have in their armories is a query the Cartels themselves likely don’t know the answer too. We do know concretely that more than 200 weapons have been involved in violent crimes on both sides of the border thanks to the BATFE, an agency tasked with enforcing firearm laws.
This is a problem that goes beyond pro versus anti-gun attitudes. A government agency literally violated its mandate, and in so doing has directly led to the deaths of tens of people.This is a problem of a federal agency that not only is redundant , but has violated its own purpose.It should be dealt with accordingly.
“It’s nothing, that’s what it is”.
Thousands of guns trafficked to Mexico by the ATF are nothing to consider? Hundreds of civilian deaths tied to those same guns are nothing? The WACO massacre is nothing significant to hold the ATF (and other federal agencies) responsible for caring out?
Mike, you need to get some therapy.
“That’s what the withheld documents would show.” C’mon Robert, you’re too well-educated to make that statement. I want to know the truth about all of this as much as you do, but we can’t stoop to these ” literary devices.”
Please, stick to “The Truth” about your topics. That’s why some of us love you guys.
Text amended: “I have every confidence that’s what the withheld documents would show.” Better?
Thanks. To me, small change, big difference.
Two of the guns allowed to cross the Mexican border were found at the scene of border patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder. His family doesn’t think it’s insignificant, percentage-wise or other. Shame on you, Mikeb302000, for calling his death “insignificant”.
There is no contradiction in the gun-owner community accepting that there isn’t all that much that can be done through laws to curb accidental gun deaths, anymore than laws can prevent death by car accidents (34,485) or accidental falls (24,792) or poisoning (31,758), while being outraged at a government program designed to allow weapons to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.
Kinda reminds me of that Frost-Nixon movie where Nixon says something along the lines of ‘it’s not illegal if the president does it”Mike doesn’t seem to care about F&F because the government did it, and now with Obama at the helm they cannot possibly do wrong. A few deaths don’t matter if they involve those guns but the insignificant amount that are stolen from law abiding gun owners apparently really do matter. Enough so to justify onerous and unconstitutional gun laws here in the Estados Unidos.And let me again say that studies show that the actual percentage of gun control advocates who aren’t sociopaths is less than 1%, I know it’s true because I just made it up MikeB style.
It looks like the free-lance gang is winning this turf war against the state-sanctioned gang. It’s just too bad the peaceable citizens are caught in the middle.
Along with the well-deserved criticism of BAFTE, let’s not forget to say “thank you” to the agents who kept their oath to the Constitution, and blew the whisltle on their bosses. It takes guts to put your career on the line when all you have to do to protect your pension is keep your mouth shut.
Of course, maybe they realized that the people up the ladder were willing to accept a few dead Federal LEOs to further the goal of F&F — manufacture “evidence” that lax US gun laws arm Mexican criminals. They may have figured out that they themselves could be the next lamb on the altar to advance this gun control agenda, and turned on the SOBs running the operation.
Hoo, boy, it seems like mikey’s off his meds again.
You misspelled “still”.
While all the Police Officers of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico are staying in Hotels for their protection, their Families are at home. Given the absolute, cold-blooded ruthlessness of the Mexican Drug Cartels, if I were one of those Police Officers, I would be incapable of doing any Police work for worry about my family at the home I am not at.
BATFE and the U.S. Attorney General are awash in a sea of blood that is likely to turn into an ocean before this is over. As Robert Farago noted, “Not ONCE in today’s Congressional investigation into Operation Fast and Furious—the ATF’s “Guns for Goons” program—did anyone mention the hundreds of Mexicans killed by the 2000+ firearms enabled by Uncle Sam’s black bag job. ” Apparently, Congress has no problem diddling their hands in that sea of blood, as well. This is shameful and sickening.
If both the Executive and Legislative branches of the U.S. Government are so morally bankrupt, this Congressional Hearing is nothing but a “mock trial” worthy only of the most despotic, totalitarian regimes we have seen in the past.
Closing Note: I fully recognize this post is melodramatic and I fully admit I composed it that way because I could not otherwise have stated my disgust in any remotely civil way. Take me to task, if you will, but do not expect any apologies or retractions from me.
I have no intent to downplay any ATF responsibility in the “mishandling” of guns to the cartels….But given the cartels’ full picture. Size, strength, financial backing, arsenal cache etc. How many guns did the ATF “give” to the cartels say vs. their full arsenal? I’m betting the cartels are sitting on many thousand guns and ten times that in ammo. At any one moment. I agree that our incompetent gov’t, gov’t agencies DO NOT need to be fueling the problems. Money talks and the cartels are sitting on mountains of that as well, getting all their guns from the USA? Doubt it. We’re just stupid enough to hand them a gun to shoot us in the ass.
Illegal organized crime often imports their firearms direct (illegally, of course) or builds their own firearms in house.
Yet another reason why the cities with the most crime also have the most gun control…
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