“I recently returned from a one-month visit to the United States,” gun control advocate MikeB302000 reveals on his blog. The expatriated American (living in Rome, Italy) hasn’t been in The Land of the Free for some time. MikeB was taken by two observations. First, Americans are porky. “The second most impressive thing I noticed was the almost total absence of guns. Every day I scanned the people for who might be carrying concealed. There were very few, which could be easily determined due to the summertime dress code. I realize some of those folks might have had a gun in the glove compartment of the car and certainly some had guns at home, but the overall impression was that gun ownership is not the commonplace way of life we often hear from the gun-rights crowd.” How scientific is that?

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153 COMMENTS

  1. mikebnumbers has an agenda. i hardly think his observations, biased as they are, are worth noting.

  2. If Mike, or anyone else, can easily observe that I am carrying a gun, then I’m doing it wrong.

    • Todd, I hear what you’re saying, but maybe you’re not hearing me. I said I’d scanned the crowd for those who MIGHT be carrying. Ya get the difference?

      Dressed for the 100 degree weather, very few people I saw COULD have been.

      In addition to that I talked to people everywhere I went. My “scientific” conclusion: you guys are not as representative of the general public as you like to pretend.

      • Dressed for the 100 degree weather, ANY ONE of the people you saw could have been carrying a P238, an LCP, a Nano or any one of numerous other small, easily-concealed pistols. Stop pretending concealment is difficult.

        • I have an LCP with a holster that is the size and shape of a wallet. There is no way MikeB could discern between the two if I was carrying while wearing shorts.

        • Yes, Michael. Especially those 350-pounders. Bigger clothes generally have larger pockets.

        • I carry a Glock 26 concealed wearing shorts and a simple t-shirt. I am glad Mike thinks he is an expert. If you hate America so much, just renounce your citizenship, otherwise, piss off.

      • This guy is like Bagdad Bob,

        Nothing to see here….no guns here, we are seconds from complete victory!

        Yea, never mind that every stat keeping system in the US states that guns are plentiful and gun are being purchased in record numbers and carry permits are being issued in such record numbers that police are hiring additional personnel just to keep up with the background checks…..ya, guns are not as common place as it would seem.

        Throw in the fact that any political candidate who even slightly wants to have a chance to be elected stays away from gun control issues, I think we are at a pretty good place right now. The american public has denounced failed gun control laws, because they don’t want them and they know that they don’t work.

        But hey, maybe some more “Italian Scientists” can help us out with this observation…

        • Bagdad Bob….. A fellow DVE listener? “You Donkey bag” LOL

          If my wife has to ask me if I’m carrying I don’t think Mike is going to know.

      • You mean anybody in an untucked t-shirt? How about anybody with pockets in their shorts?

        You, sir, are an unmitigated moron.

        The only people you can guarantee are carrying concealed are old guys wearing NRA hats and photographer’s vests. Oh, and fanny pack wearers who don’t appear to be German tourists.

      • Anyone wearing at least a pair of shorts and a T-shirt COULD have been carrying without your knowledge.

        One can only presume that spent your entire trip in places where people wear less than that minimum.

      • No, Mike, you don’t get it. When I am very appropriately dressed for 100 degree weather, say, t-shirt and shorts, I can still carry a gun in a manner which is not easily discernible.

        What were you expecting, anyway? Last time I checked, CCW holders typically make up perhaps 3-5% of the population of shall-issue jurisdictions. You might as well claim that redheads are not commonplace.

      • There’s also the fact that perhaps the people in your location (was it a beach? That’s about the only place I don’t think I could conceal a gun.) self-selected towards being non-CCWers. Maybe a CCWer stays away from that sort of place because it’s difficult to carry. Maybe in a colder city, there are a lot more CCWers because it’s more convenient and comfortable when given the option of jeans and jackets to conceal a gun. Your one little anecdote means precisely nothing.

      • Some days I’m wearing a suit and have a gun. Does that count as someone who MIGHT be carrying?

        You’re a moron.

      • In 100F weather, I can easily carry a Glock 19 with mag extension while wearing shorts and a T-shirt + short-sleeved shirt without printing. Guess how I know.

      • Mr. Bonomo:

        I carry a full sized 1911 in 100 degree weather and I assure you that you would never notice. And if you decided to ask me if I carried a gun do you think I would tell you? Like nuclear weapons on aboard US naval vessels I neither confirm nor deny whether I am armed at any particular time.

      • Mike, I am about 145 lbs and 5’7″. I can and do easily conceal a full size 1911 in the right place with the right holster during the summer wearing a t-shirt. I’ve never been noticed to print even by my fellow gun toting friends. More often I am carrying much smaller guns. you don’t need baggy clothes and tactical pants to conceal a gun whilst carrying for protection.

      • By the way, Mikeb, I used to live a few blocks from the public library in Fayetteville, AR. I’d walk there from my apartment past a police station. Occasionally, the officers outside would nod at me, but none ever took a second look. I did this while carrying a variety of handguns from a snub-nose .38 Special to a 1911. If they didn’t notice anything, and they’d have asked if they had, why do you imagine that you could?

      • Maybe you’re right, mike. You can report back to your blog that you’ve done your job and the war has been won. No one is carrying guns in the U.S. and all is now right with the world. You finally got through to all of us.
        Now you can go to work on sugary drinks.

      • Mike,

        I carry one of several .45ACP handguns every day. My choice of weapon depends upon what level of concealment I wish to have, which is generally based upon weather & attire, and the day’s agenda. On most days I carry a 1911, and when in GA I carry openly. When open carry is not permitted and/or a bulge under my shirt is undesirable, I carry a compact .45 in my pocket.

        With the compact .45 I could walk around in swimtrunks carrying it and you would never be able to spot it. There are, quite literally, millions of compact handguns like mine carried every day. Your inability to spot them doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

        Narcissists. Tisk, tisk.

  4. ID-TEN-T fault here…..

    I can carry in full summer garb without showing easily, as can my 90lb counterpart. She has had as many as three CCW on her at one time during the full summer heat, without printing. I knwo where they are, and I can’t even see them.

    Once again, MikeB reveals that he, like the lamestream media, and progressives everywhere, will never let facts get in his way….

  5. “Americans are porky.”
    ——
    Yup. I can’t disagree with that.

    As to the assertion that “gun ownership is not the commonplace way of life we often hear from the gun-rights crowd” simply because Michael didn’t notice many people carrying, the mind simply boggles at this spurrious bit of logic. I don’t notice many same-sex couples walking hand-in-hand here in central Minnesota. Is someone from San Francisco going to let me get away with stating that same-sex couples are not commonplace?

  6. According to Foxnews.com today, handgun sales in Colorado have increased 41% since the movie shootings. Apparently not all people are idiots.

  7. I didn’t see any Mexican cartels walking around with AKs,so clearly the ATF didn’t sell them any.

  9. i guess those record number of background checks for gun sales is a false flag operation to make america seem more secure than it is…oooorrrr…

    it could be they’re selling a assload of guns.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life/t/record-numbers-licensed-pack-heat/#.UBAq8zFYsfI

    even msn is recognizing that record numbers are packing heat. With increasingly erratic economic problems and other calamities affecting the united states, more will obtain their CCW permit.

  10. Okay… So how does visibly (the idea of CC is nobody should notice, at least not without an invasively close look) carrying a gun in public equal total gun ownership?

    And don’t anti-gunners usually complain of the opposite: there are way too many gun owners in the US?

    Isn’t it a good thing that we as a people don’t look like the stereotype western where most folks are visibly packing? (We’ve had lots of great discussions here about the benefits of keeping your tools invisible.)

    (And yes, I do have to agree: we are looking alot “fluffier” around the mid-sections. Apparently we need to ban food–how many people does that stuff kill per year?)

    Taking this subject slightly elsewhere: While it would be relatively easy to get numbers CCW permits issued, what I’m wondering is how many CCW holders actually carry their guns, and how much of the time?

    Me first: Not often. Weapons are forbidden in the work I do, though I violate this partially with Gibbs’ Rule 9: Always carry a knife. I’ve also long-since moved out of neighborhoods where I felt the need to carry daily. And when I’m in a neighborhood that warrants it, it’s usually when I’m traveling somewhere I can’t carry anyway (so: the most dangerous places I see are the ones with the strictest gun bans–go figure). My CCW is an exercise of my right, there if I decide I need it, and it conveniently defers those pesky waiting periods (I have a selective retail addiction).

    Oh, and for the record, I’ve been Darth Mikey for a long while–I’m not riffing on being MikeB’s evil twin, just my own.

    Come to the dark side. We have cookies. And .44 Magnums.

  12. “How scientific is that?”

    Exactly. Leave his uneducated opinions to his own blog.

    While I’m all for an open forum, you’re not helping our cause by republishing ignorant garbage spewed from the brain of a moron. All of his opinions have been discredited again and again. Would you repeatedly quote Hitler here if he was alive today and still trying to convince people that the Nazis still need to take over the world?

    Here’s a charmer: “Every day I scanned the people for who might be carrying concealed”.

    Now he is essentially claiming to have x-ray vision. If you keep listening to his garbage, eventually he is going to try to sell you a bridge. You constantly discredit the “facts” published by these so-called anti-gun studies. At least they try to use actual data to support their findings (even though it is used improperly just to scare people). This genius just says something like, “Well, I didn’t see anyone with a gun today so there must not be any guns in America.” Really? Please don’t feed the trolls.

    • It’s good for discussion purposes to have some opposition opinions in the mix, but this guy is 100% pure troll. His presence is more about generating page views than generating insight.

      • “100% pure,” huh Benji? And what substantive insights did your comment offer?

        I actually made a point or two, which maybe you didn’t like, but what have you got? Are you one of those who carry concealed so successfully that no one would ever guess? Is your weight a factor? Tell us something.

  13. I agree with you Mikey, Americans are a bit porky, including me. As to folks carrying guns or having access to them in their car’s, brief cases, purses, etc, you asked if your observations are scientific, and I’ll answer that also, with a NO. I hope you had a good trip in the US, and got to do some enjoyable stuff. I just recently came back from a week’s vacation in New England, and I feel rejuvinated. You didn’t mention what states you were in, but that may have skewed your observations also.

    • Yeah I agree on the porky bit. I have spent time in Europe and they are thinner on average. The exception was Italians that I dealt with there which a number of them were porky. I will never go on an Italian cruise ship again. Our porkiness is due to our government guidelines for food. Watch Fathead the Movie on Netflix.

      This guy is a jerk about his comments on guns here. He obviously does not know how easy it is to conceal now.

    • I too am curious. If he spent most of his time in New Jersey, can we draw anything meaningful from his observation?

      • Haha when I was in Utah I saw a slew of people open carrying revolvers, and not a single one drew as much as a gasp. But that’s as scientific as your (lack of) observation.

        • CA does – depends on the county. CA does have a bad (and earned) reputation, but it really depends on WHERE in CA.

      • Ok – so out of those only in UT and NV is cc allowed in any meaningful way. And if you’re in any of the tourist meccas (Las Vagas or Park City), then a lot of the porkers you see will be tourists who probably aren’t legal to carry in that state.

        • Never mind that sh!t. Michael didn’t see many (any?) people packing, so gun ownership is a myth. Makes perfect sense if you don’t think about it.

          • Did I say it’s a myth, Moon? What is your problem with sticking to the truth? Let me answer that. If you stuck to the truth you couldn’t win the argument.

            I said “the overall impression was that gun ownership is not the commonplace way of life we often hear from the gun-rights crowd.”

        • Mea culpa. The fact is that you are relying on your own observations to draw a conclusion about gun ownership in America. Here are the problems with that:

          1. Selection bias. You only visited 5 states and the District of Crime. Not a representative sample.

          2. Selection bias (again). You drew your conclusion based only on people whom you could tell were carrying.

          3. Sample bias. You assume a connection between carrying a gun and owning a gun. While all law-abiding gun carriers are, by definition, gun owners, the reverse is not true.

          This is where you stick to the truth as you try to defend your contention that “gun ownership is not the commonplace way of life we often hear from the gun-rights crowd.” Ready? Go.

        • “all law-abiding gun carriers are, by definition, gun owners”

          Not necessarily.

          Neither my Colorado CHP (“Concealed Handgun Permit”) nor the underlying state statutes require me to own a gun before I can legally carry it.

        • I said “the overall impression was that gun ownership is not the commonplace way of life we often hear from the gun-rights crowd.”

          Except that gun ownership is very different from carrying on a daily or even regular basis. The stats on firearms sales are incontrovertible, and they show that ownership is very common and becoming moreso daily. In my state you have to get a carry permit just to acquire a pistol at all – so if you want a handgun for home defense, you are licensed to concealed carry, even if you have not intention of ever doing so.

          I suppose if you move the goalposts enough your can be sort of right for a moment. Whatever gets you through the night.

        • DonS,
          Thank you for the correction. I made an error in assuming that, since I would not carry a gun I did not own and was not intimately familiar with, nobody else would either. I appreciate the correction.

      • Only UT and NV count as states because those other no good COMMIE wannabe’s should all be part of Italy.

      • I hope mikeB paid those tolls on 95 too. Us locals know how to avoid them.
        I was carrying in Delaware, Mike, too bad you didn’t notice.

      • Shame you didn’t make it up to Minnesota. You, Dog Gone and myself could have hit the range.

  15. OT though MikeB might approve:

    NYPD busted for more out-of-state jurisdiction activities. The NYPD and Bloomberg really thinks its jurisdiction or domain is nationwide.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48317809/ns/us_news/?__utma=14933801.322606395.1342446882.1343233622.1343237474.50&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343237474&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342446882.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)|utmcct=/&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=149583286#.UBAthZJntYw

    “New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has defended the police department’s right to go anywhere in the country in search of terrorists without telling local police. And New Jersey Attorney General Jeffrey Chiesa has said he’s seen no evidence that the NYPD’s efforts violated his state’s laws.”

    • Bloomy’s record is getting more despicable by the day. First it was sending his goons to gun shows to try to “illegally” purchase weapons. Then it was spying on Muslims in NYC, then NJ, then the whole country.And just the other day he said to Piers Morgan that the police all across the country should go on strike until civilians give up their guns, and their “evil armor piercing bullets”, and apparently their rights to privacy, their rights under the First Amendment, and any other right that would prevent the intituition of a police state…..

  17. Concealed carry means that the gun is concealed. That is why he didn’t notice any guns. (if he’s not lying to begin with) I conceal carry and you absolutely will not know that I am carrying. That is because I am doing it correctly. The same goes for my friends and family who carry. This guy is another gun hater with an agenda.

  18. After reading mikey’s blahg and his all-too-frequent comments here, I have one observation.

    Y’all know what it is.

  19. MikeB302000 still misses the point. Who cares if CCW is common place or not. The 2A guarantees the RKBA. So a law abiding citizen has the choice to carry a gun or not. It is all about having a choice to make yourself. Not to have another person or the gov’t make that choice for you.

  20. I’m kinda itching to dig up his ikilled007 posts from debate on livejournal, he sounded quite a bit different back then from what I remember.

  21. You know one time in my life someone flashed a gun as a threat to me and a friend of mine who flicked him off in traffic. You know where it was? Milan Italy. Thought there weren’t supposed to be guns there, what gives Mike?

  22. Off-topic: Cha-ching! Pageviews!

    On-topic: I’m 5’9″, about 195, and I could conceal my P238 under a wetsuit. Mike’s “observations” are worth precisely jack.

  23. Question for Mikeb302000: Why do you spend so much time trying to change a country you no longer live in? Is it because you’re planning to come back permanently sometime?

    Not rhetorical, not sarcastic. I want to know where you’re coming from.

    • You have to understand that it’s not about the guns. As with most gun-grabbers, it’s about control, plain and simple. It’s about soothing deep, ingrained insecurity and emotional immaturity. Likely, he finds himself too scared, weak, or emotionally unwilling to handle the responsibility of defending himself in a violent and uncertain world. The lack of control is too much for him to handle. Responsible and peaceful gun owners enrage him because they prove that it can be done, he simply isn’t able to.

      As to why he focuses on the US, it’s likely because if he focused on any number of violent countries on the planet where guns are banned (what’s the violent crime rate in the UK again?) then he’d have to accept the cold, hard fact that guns have nothing to do with it, and their lawful presence in fact mitigates violence. He and his ilk would then have to do serious, uncomfortable, grim research into the nature of the human condition, crime, and evil to see that violence is a permanent part of humanity that has and always will be there. If they were truly devoted to peace, they would then have to tackle the nigh-impossible task of truly understanding crime and working to solve its underlying issues.

      But why do that when you can blame guns and the country that has the most of them?

      But we’ll see what his answer is. Just remember that he’s lying; it’s all his type know how to do.

    • Most of my family and many of my friends live there. My children who are still in school may one day want to live there. I’m ambivalent about whether or not I’d like to move back someday.

      Another factor is that I haven’t moved to the moon. The world is a lot smaller place than it used to be and what happens in the U.S. has a great impact on the rest of us. I have always felt more American than Italian, naturally having spent my first 36 years there before moving overseas.

      • Thanks for answering. I’ll argue against your ideas on gun control as long as I’m still breathing, but I can’t argue with your reasons for trying.

        However bitterly we gun nuts (aka 2nd amendment supporters) oppose the gun-grabbers (aka gun-control advocates) ideas, it’s good to step back from time to time and remember that we all have a similar goal in the end: a better and safer world for ourselves and the people we love.

        But how to go about making it happen…that’s where it gets tricky. It’s hard not to get angry when you’re sure somebody is going to make it worse, not better.

  24. ok…I have been lurking on this site for a few weeks now. I find most of the content very informative, as well as getting the gears turning upstairs. I also enjoy reading the comments. But, for the life of me, I can not tell if this MikeB302000 guy is for real or not. I am sincerely hoping that he/she/it is just a running joke that I have not caught onto as of yet. If not…I don’t know what to say. As a Corrections Officer I deal with idiots on a daily basis. i am also lucky enough to have to listen to their mindless drivel, and even attempt to engage in an adult conversation with them. This Mike feller is very repetitive of the kind of idiot mush i hear all day, every day!

  25. Mikeb, I buy my clothes with concealed carry in mind. When it’s as hot as you described and I’m not at work, I usually wear shorts and a T-shirt–the latter hanging loose. I can fit a government-model 1911 under it, and you won’t know.

    You’re telling us that you didn’t notice anything being carried? People go around with piles of electronic gadgets, big wallets, wads of keys, and so forth. Are you suggesting that you can pick out a concealed handgun from that list? Are you running about with one of those newfangled scanners?

  26. Mike,

    I find it very easy to carry a Glock 19, S&W 340 PD, knife and spare ammo in shorts and a t-shirt in 100+ temps, and do so daily, I just happen to be very good at concealing these items

  27. So you ‘drove through’ the northeast, DC, UT and NV and you weren’t able to profile anybody carrying. Wow, just wow, what a schmo. Before I was old enough to flee, I lived in NJ. We had an NYC cop join our local force, a common occurrence for them on retirement from the city. He used to tell about how proud and secure he felt his first week patrolling in NYC since he was in uniform and armed. After that it dawned on him that EVERYBODY in the whole damned city was armed, his words not mine. I carry a 1911 with a 4.5″ barrel and nobody sees it unless I want them to, 100 degrees or not. Porky? I go around 5′ 10″ and 190, or what the solons in DC would call 40 lbs over weight aka obese, then again I never saw one of them get 12 pull ups or complete a Tough Mudder. BTW, you may want to reconsider your ideas of just who may or may not be carrying in La Bella Italia, just a thought.

  29. I love to see MikeB’s name pop up in this forum simply because no one knows how to ruffle feathers better than he does. All he has to say is that the stop sign is a slightly different color of red and 3/4 of the people in here get ticked off. I dont say I agree with him but I just love to see how he gets under peoples skin around here. He is doing his job very well on this site.

    • Pretty poor tactic. “Ruffling our feathers” keeps us focused on the topic, refining our arguments against America’s commonplace fools, and strengthens our desire to defend our rights. Look at politics; the real way to diminish an opposing force is to get them complacent. All mikey does is constantly remind us that we have enemies and they don’t favor logic or facts. He’s giving us a window into how to adapt our tactics.

      He’s also incredibly fun.

      Thanks, mikey!

    • You’re absolutely right, Nuck. The ones who are most bothered are the insecure ones, which proves my other theory about why guys have guns in the first place.

      • “The ones who are most bothered are the insecure ones…”
        ——
        Objection. Prejudicial. Argues facts not present in evidence.

      • Hm, seems to me that if I were insecure, I’d feel the need to show off my guns to everyone and carry it openly like a tough guy. I’d probably own lots, and big ones like Desert Eagles or .500 magnums. I’d make sure everyone saw me and I’d strut around.

        In truth, I own one gun, a small and lowly 9mm, I conceal all the time, and not a soul knows I have a gun except my immediate family.

        Funny thing, insecurity. People who are totally secure in their souls and beliefs welcome opposition because they desire truth and constantly desire to test their beliefs. Why is it, then, that gun-grabber blogs are overwhelmingly guilty of censoring responses and deleting opposing comments, while blogs like this one do not, no matter how stupid the comments are? If heated opposition equals insecurity, perhaps I should take a trip over to some certain gun-grabber blogs and see how relaxed and tolerant their steady visitors are toward opposition.

        And if heated opposition equals insecurity, how come after such incidents as Aurora, the kneejerk hysterics are exclusive to gun-grabbers?

        Don’t flatter yourself, mikey. You’re a fun, pitiable distraction, like a dancing monkey with a limp. You’re making no one insecure. For some people around here, the presence of sub-human scum simply bothers them, like a rancid smell.

        Man, that’s two stereotypes you failed to pin on me today, mikey. I’m offended that you’re leaving me out.

  30. So he visited a number of states, only two of which actually allow conceal carry, and he didn’t see anyone…concealing.

    Wow.

    It’s no secret that CCers are not the norm. What is it, 3 percent or so? Factor in the tyrannical states you visited (why am I not surprised you stuck to the most oppressive states in the US?) and the fact that even if you did lay eyes on a CCer, if he’s anywhere near competent, it would be CONCEALED, then I’d be shocked if you did see a single CCer.

    Further, popularity does not dictate morality and law. I know much you hate those “precious” rights we have over here in the US, but popularity does not decide which human rights are inalienable.

    I don’t know which is more brow-cocking here, the fact that mikey could possibly be so oblivious to the faults in his own methodology (but hey, who needs a reality check when one’s own agenda is at stake) or the fact that TTAG actually runs this. It makes sense to run braindead drivel from such trash as Bloomberg or the like, because what they do and say actually can affect people, and they actually have a modicum of power that we must contend with. Mikey’s just your everyday wannabe-tyrant/sociopathic tool.

    Do the free world a favor and don’t visit anymore, mikey.

    See, Low Budget Dave, this is how you be a proper gun-grabbing troll. Really put some effort into your insane arguments to make them not just stupid, but brow-raisingly stupid.

  31. Every time I think MikeB has reached the pinnacle of douchebaggery, he finds a way to out-do himself. SMH.

  32. I’m not sure where MikeB was, but it sure was hot. In any case, even if you could get an accurate count of how many people are carrying firearms, establishing how many gun owners there are would be impossible to determine without somehow knowing the ratio of gun carriers to gun owners. That’s not a known figure, so you cannot determine how many gun owners there are based on the number of carriers.

    And even if you know the ratio of gun carriers to gun owners, that ratio is a moving target. A variable. It’s not constant but, rather, it changes based on location, weather, and perceived threat level (which is probably higher now since the “Batman Massacre”).

  33. Hey MikeB, I have an idea that will help you be more scientific in your next “study” – whip out a gun in a crowded place and see how many people draw on you.

    • If he did that, it would probably be at a Cinemark theater or some other gun-free zone just to prove his point that no one would shoot back. Don’t feed the trolls.

  35. I just noticed the title “MikeB302000: U.S. Gun Ownership “Not Commonplace” What the hell does concealed carry have to do with gun ownership. I know plenty of gun owners who never carry. How scientific is that?

  36. I’m a well educated human being and I can tell you that there is nothing scientific about that analysis. His blog is blocked at my work (thank goodness) so I can read from the source. From his comment mikeb visited “NY, NJ, CA, NV, UT.” That alone is enough to question any results. He visites 5 states and 3 of them you’re not going to see anyone carrying anyway since they are de facto no issue alla may issue requiring a judges approval. I’m sure plenty already mentioned that it’s conceal carry and the intent is to not see the firearm anyway, so there is inherently going to be a degree of error, but I’m sure he mentions that in his analysis following with his clear lack of defined experimental procedure

    • It really does depend on where you are in California. Up here in the far north, CCWs are pretty much sahll issue–over 2000 have been issued for my county. But frankly, I have never made a civilian concealed carrier. The only “concealed” weapons I’ve seen are detectives (who aren’t trying very hard because they don’t have to) and an assistant US attorney–which was quite surprising to me as we were in a federal court room at the time, and federal courts have a no gun policy. And since the biggest city has half the population of the whole county, I am sure they are around me every day.

  38. Attention plebes! I have arrived at a conclusion that adheres to my personal values! Now stand back while I prove it through purely circumstantial personal observations that I cannot correlate with factual information! BEHOLD! SCIENCE!

    P.S.- You’re all fat.

  39. MikeB,

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your failure to find much in the way of concealed carry (which is the point of concealed carry) is pretty much the same error that got Michael Bellesiles headed in the wrong direction, he looked at probate records and noting few firearms declared that there were very few firearms in early America.

    I am 6’5″, 250lbs. While you might consider me “porky”, and after a few too many Mimosas might consider pointing that out to me, one thing you won’t do should we meet is spot my concealed handgun or my spare magazine, pretty much no matter what I am wearing. My clothing choices revolve around what I am going to be doing (I confess to not being much of a clotheshorse) and as one of the things I am very likely to be doing is exercising my CHL rights my clothing is tailored to mask the signature of a carried handgun.

    Also, if the only data point you’re using to draw a line regarding the degree of firearms ownership is the number of people open-carrying or concealed-carrying and “printing”, you are missing a very large segment of the population that doesn’t carry but still participates in gun culture. The gun culture is as diverse in terms of interests as any other, there are pistol folks, shotgun folks, rifle folks who shoot cans, rifle folks who shoot deer, rifle folks who shoot targets hundreds of meters away, people who shoot blackpowder, people who shoot birds, people who shoot sporting clays but not trap or skeet or birds, etc. I fit into several of those categories, and the range of what firearms owners do with their firearms is not fairly gauged by how many of them are actually carrying concealed.

    The final issue would be where you were trying to spot CHL owners. Doing this in NY or NJ is going to be a frustrating experience for you. You have a much higher statistical likelihood of meeting a CHL owner who is carrying in FL, TX, MI or a variety of other states that liberally dispense CHLs.

    Probably the easiest place to find an active gun culture is portions of Chicago, where there are “reasonable” gun restrictions and where the local motto is apparently “We’re Still Better Than Mexico”, referring to the per-capita murder rate. While I think it’s very likely that a casual sampling survey would convince you that crime-oriented gun possession can be frightfully high in portions of the ‘States, I wouldn’t advise a trip into those neighborhoods.

  40. Beach going fellers usually have a small weapon in a UNS (under the nut sack) or BBC (between the butt cheeks) holster. The hard part is mastering walking normally.

  41. motojb. this is the first time i’ve laughed out loud at anything on the site. great use of the search engine and it explains a lot about mikeybnumbers.

      • motojb. i saw the post and used the link. then it went away, so i’m thinking you’ve been censored.

      • TTAG’s posting policy: no flaming the website, its authors or fellow commentators. And . . . that’s it.

        • Really?? News to me Robert, after what I’ve seen dozens of posters say in the past couple of weeks (and many on this very same thread).

          What is this Robert? “You, sir, are an unmitigated moron.” “And you’re living proof that you can’t fix stupid.” “Every time I think MikeB has reached the pinnacle of douchebaggery, he finds a way to out-do himself. SMH.”

          Please just enforce the site evenly then. Thanks…that’s it.

          • C’mon Moto, Robert couldn’t remove all the personal attacks against me. That would unfairly misrepresent the way the Armed Intelligentsia feels about me. Besides, you sound like a big crybaby complaining that your nonsense was deleted and not that of some others.

            • And you sound like a ghey, pansy, douche-bag troll that just likes to stir the pot because you have no real purpose in life. Try focusing on a “cause” that has a real purpose, and do it somewhere else.

        • What about these ones as well Robert??

          “wow – of that, only 2 states that truly allow concealed carry. What a dipshit.”

          “In all reality Mikebwhatever, you are about as important as dino shit that didn’t fossilize.”

          “What a nitwit.”

          Until you enforce the site evenly, you’re just specifically singling me out…

          …and that’s total BS.

  42. my wife’s theory is that people who do hard drugs are stuck forever at the mental developement stage they were at when they started the drugs. even if they get clean and sober. mikeybnumbers was obviously very young and immature when he fell into the drug scene. my only real question is why do we even acknowledge him. after all, when adults are speaking the children should remain in the background.

  43. *sigh*

    I’m starting to wonder if MikeB pays Rob to promote his blog…

    If he posted something intelligent and using actual facts, then sure, share it and we can have a discussion. When you’re just posting his factless, pointless gibberish, there’s nothing of value being added and it makes TTAG look bad for promoting him.

  44. You tried to estimate who might be carrying concealed and on that basis concluded gun ownership wasn’t commonplace in the U.S.?

    Man, if only there were a better way of figuring that out – like say, a poll?

      • Self-reporting does have known problems, but this particular question avoids most of them.

        If anything, you’d think people would under-report gun ownership. Some people could be paranoid of covert government attempts to track guns. Some might be gun-control advocates who don’t want to admit they keep one for their own protection but want to deny the same to others. Some might be convicted felons who aren’t supposed to have any guns.

        But whatever its flaws, anything has got to be better than counting weapons you can’t see and assuming whoever isn’t carrying one doesn’t own one (maybe Mike should try his new survey technique with vibrators).

        • If anything, you’d think people would under-report gun ownership. Some people could be paranoid of covert government attempts to track guns.

          Actually, if you read enough on Gallup’s site about gun ownership, they specifically state people being afraid to admit to owning a gun as a reason for the big drop in gun ownership in the 90’s.

        • “assuming whoever isn’t carrying one doesn’t own one”

          Small correction. Mikey’s methodology was:

          travel through a few jurisdictions, most of which generally don’t issue permits, *then* assume that anyone who isn’t carrying a firearm, as far as his eyes and brain [?] could discern, doesn’t own one.

  45. I have to give MikeB credit where credit is due. He is always good for a laugh when I need one.

  46. It is well known that there are something like 250 million guns owned by 80 million people in the US. But Mike drives thru a few states, meets a few people, doesn’t see any obvious bulges on anyone’s waists and then concludes that ownership is “not commonplace”. The only science involved with that leap is the psychology of selective perception and delusional thinking.

    • Let’s examine that “250 million guns owned by 80 million people in the US” for a moment, shall we? It’s the height of dishonesty for you to quote those numbers as support for your side of the argument, here’s why. Most of the 80 million couldn’t care less about the issue one way or the other. They own guns, sure, but many of them don’t even know where they are (in the attic, basement, one of the closets). Others keep one handy for emergencies but are totally apathetic about gun rights. That’s why the NRA has so few members.

      Of the remaining, a good portion actually agree with the gun control folks. You certainly can’t count them. They are gun owners who feel like we do about background checks and assault weapons, you know the type.

      What’s left is a few million who run the spectrum from mild believers in the 2A to fanatical gun-rights activists. If you isolate the ones who feel like you do, passionate enough to comment on pro-gun blogs, what would it be, maybe 100,000, maybe half-a-million.

      That’s why my observations in the States are what I said: “the overall impression was that gun ownership is not the commonplace way of life we often hear from the gun-rights crowd.”

      • Common place is relative to where you live and the people you know. Not an odd concept I’m sure. But common place is not the point. The 2A guarantees a law abiding citizen can make their own choice when it comes to firearms.

        Now why should we be limited in make, model or quantity? No good reason really. Why should any law abiding citizen be limited because some bat shit crazy person abuses his or her rights?

        What is next? What car I can drive? 11 people died when a pick up truck crashed with 23 people crammed in it. Does that mean pick up trucks need to be regulated?

        People do bad things for no sane reason. That cannot be fixed by limiting the rights of millions of law abiding citizens.

      • A post full of unsubtantiated assumptions.

        While it is true that Diane Feinstein carrys a gun but support highly restrictive gun control laws and regulations that does not mean that a good portion of gun owners believe in gun control.

        And I bet DiFi is in possession of large capacity clips for whatever gun she carries.

      • The problem is, your “logic” is based upon so many assumptions, it makes my head hurt. You are coming up with what you want to believe, in order to push your own agenda. IMO the NRA has so “few members” as you call it, because most are “cheap” and don’t want to part with any more of their hard earned $$ in order to be a member. Many are not taking responsibility for protecting their right to own/possess the firearms they keep buying. I know a crap load of people that own guns, most of them are just apathetic about gun rights. Very few to none would say we should outlaw AK47’s. They understand and agree “the problems” you gun haters keep focusing on won’t be solved by taking rights away from law abiding citizens.

      • The NRA has so few members? It has about 5 million people in it’s organization. Sure that isn’t a massive slice of the 80 million gun owners but that is still a nice cut.

          • The NAACP has 300,000 members, out of a population of 37,600,000 blacks in America. That’s 0.8 %. Shall we therefore regard the NAACP as unrepresentative of blacks? If not, why not?

              • I see: When the numbers work for you, pound on the numbers. When they don’t, change the subject, move the goalposts, whatever it takes to never concede any point. If you had real arguments, you’d be using those instead of resorting to intellectual dishonesty.

  47. Although he twisted the logic, Mike unwittingly supports our cause with his observations. Other than the the inner-cities and the occasional high-profile nut case, most of America is pretty free of gun violence. Although there are 250 million guns and a few million concealed carriers, there are few wild west shootouts, no blood running in the streets, and hardly any gunfire over fender benders. The vast majority of those guns are owned and used responsibly. Thanks Mike.

  48. I just started carrying this year. Had 3 other friends start this year too. One after a break in. the rest to protect against 2 or 4 legged creatures. I live in the Midwest, guns are a huge part of life here. Hunting, protection, and fun. We love our guns whether we carry or not. Every gunshow is packed with nice and responsible people. Everyone has to pass a background check to buy. There is no loophole.

    Mikebwhatever. You don’t like guns, that’s your choice. Don’t push your views on others like some smug self righteous assbag. I don’t tell you to buy guns (Not that you probably could in italy anyway) and don’t come down on those that love them. Your views are your opinion and carry no weight with those that don’t share it. And your observations are biased. I am 6ft tall. 250 lbs and muscular. I carry a full size 1911 and No one can tell I have it on me. My wife included. It’s called concealed carry for a reason…. Way to be a self absorbed know it all who treads on the rights of others because your vision of reality is skewed by your inability to accept the Violence of the natural world. We’ll be extinct someday, just ask the dinosaurs how things worked out. Chaos rules in the universe in spectacular ways.

    In all reality Mikebwhatever, you are about as important as dino shit that didn’t fossilize.

  49. Range pants. Hawaiian shirt. IWB holster and .45 cal 1911, appendix carry. Major southern city in the U.S. during 100 degree+ days. No one every sees it.

  50. Well, I have to admit, I am a bit “Porky” but great Memphis BBQ will do that to you.

    If we crossed paths, it’s obvious you missed my Glock 23. I must send Mark Craighead an email over at Crossbreed Holsters, because I wear shorts and just about any polo shirt I want and the Supertuck completely conceals. Rest be assured, that I have plenty of UNAPOLOGETIC firepower in my IWB.

    well over 366,000 concealed carry permits in Tennessee. But, he must be right, nobody’s carrying.

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