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Kristin Moore (far right) and several volunteers stationed demonstrators near entrances of the Kroger at 400 South Maple Road helped get signatures and raise awareness to their Moms Demand Action gun control cause." (Caption courtesy mlive.com. Photo courtesy of Moms Demand Action)

Tom Lambert, Vice President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc., writes:

Yesterday the [diminutive] Michigan chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America (MDA) protested outside of a Michigan Kroger. One of the resulting articles, Michigan Open Carry says protesters at Ann Arbor Kroger off base [via mlive.com,] last night gave us a few gems. In the article the MDA rep Kristen Moore is quoted as saying . . .

Lambert questioned whether Moms Demand Action was against all weapons, or just those they could see.

Moore said that concealed pistol carriers are different.

Those with CPL’s had to go through much more extensive background checks and training to lawfully carry their weapon, she said.

“We’re not interested in confiscating the guns of law-abiding, legal gun owners,” she said.

According to Michigan law MCL 750.234d it is illegal to possess a firearm in any establishment with a liquor license. The main exception to that is for anyone with a Concealed Pistol License (CPL).

That’s right: MDA isn’t worried about CPL holders but they protested outside of a place where only CPL holders can carry.

As I keep saying, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America doesn’t make any sense. They don’t know what they are talking about. Also, the way Michigan law works, it undermines everything MDA is trying to do.

MDA is doing two main things.

1 – pushing for expanded background checks because we need to make sure only good people have guns

2 – pushing stores to ban guns because we don’t know who the person with the gun is.

Well, in Michigan we have universal background checks for pistols and again, a CPL is needed to carry in almost every grocery store. So they either need to back off on the stores because everyone has had one of their background checks, or they need to admit that they are using a false dichotomy to push more background checks.

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60 COMMENTS

  1. I like this picture.

    Five people in that shot (not counting photog) and it looks like three of them are not likely to be “Moms.”

    • Part of me wants to walk up to one of the protesters that are most-definitely-not-a-mom and ask, “so, how long has it been since your operation” just to see what kind of response that gets.

      • Or you could ask them “When you went to Trinidad, Colorado for your sex change operation, did you know that the nation’s oldest gunsmithing school is located there as well?”

      • Let’s keep that part of you at home. The anti’s use the “small penis” rhetoric when talking about us, and their use of vulgarity and name calling undermines any kind of legitimate argument they might make. (Not that they have a legitimate argument). We do not need to resort to their tactics. Attack their facts, prove them wrong, and we will win. “Prove” that we’re the racist, sexist, bigoted, whatever radical gun nuts they think we are and they will win. Point out the folly of their ways, please, but calling them f’ing ugly, or worse, even if they are, does our cause no good. Even if it feels good to do it.

        • Oh hush up and lighten up. They’re just having a little fun with a few well-deserved barbs. It’s not the bedrock principle of some grand strategy, just a little blogging jocularity. Sheesh.

    • Hey,

      In this day and age, if you self identify as a mom some govts will grant you all the privileges and rights of a real biological mother.

  2. Who needs to know what they’re talking about when you have irrational feelings of fear, rage and hatred to motivate your desire to force everybody else to live the way you want them to.

  4. You mean… you mean that… that they are uninformed?

    No… you have to be wrong. They are Moms after all.

  6. That’s because they should be home, barefoot and pregnant, and before you castigate me, I’m just a rifle toting, beer swelling, small penised redneck.

  7. Where I live, we have City Market which carries Kroger brands. Closet one to me is near downtown. They have a security guard on site. Don’t know why, they do not provide any security. Not armed, no radio or phone to contact a supervisor or Police, not even a pen and notebook to write info down if something happens. They don’t even keep homeless from loitering around the front. Which is why I carry when I go there. I would like to hear of MDA picketing in front of a store like this or our “Ghetto Mart” in the evening.

  9. “Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America.”

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. How can a supposed PR professional allow her organization to have such a terrible (and looooooooooong) name?

    • And, yet, it is worth noting that the choice of and length of the name is perhaps the least of her PR fails.

    • You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear,
      You’ve got to be taught from year to year,
      It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear
      You’ve got to be carefully taught.

      — Rodgers and Hammerstein

        • “And did we tell you the name of the game, boy,.. We call it Riding the Gravy Train.”

          Someone give BigDinVT a cigar…(He’s gonna go far…)

        • Well, what thread about Watts and Co. would be complete without a reference to their boss:

          “You well heeled big wheel, ha ha charade you are.
          –Roger Waters

          Or, the followers and fellow hupo readers:

          “What do you get for pretending the danger’s not real.
          Meek and obedient you follow the leader
          Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
          What a surprise!
          A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
          Now things are really what they seem.
          No, this is no bad dream.”
          –Roger Waters

  11. From the picture it looks like they took the old folks from the home for their daily walk and put signs in their hands.

  12. False, firearm liquor laws in MI only apply to establishments that sell alcoholic beverages by the glass to be consumed on the premisis. And only if the revenue from alcohol sales makes up %50+ of their income. Open or concealed, perfectly legal to go into a party store or Kroger while carrying.

    • The article is correct – without a Concealed Pistol License (CPL), any establishment with a liquor license is off limits. See MCL 750.234d.

      The “bar” restriction is for CPL holders who are carrying concealed. See 28.425o. However, those restrictions only apply to a CPL holder while carrying concealed, so It is legal for a CPL holder to open carry in said bar.

      The way the Michigan laws work, the restrictions for open carry don’t apply when you have a CPL, and the restrictions for carrying with a CPL only apply when you are carrying concealed. So, if you open carry and have a CPL, you can go just about anywhere.

        • I’m no lawyer, but a quick search seems to show that the repeal does not negate the reference.

          From the liquor control act of 1998:

          436.2303 (5) A reference in any other law to the Michigan liquor control act, 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8, being MCL 436.1 to 436.58, is considered to be a reference to this act.

        • I’m also not a lawyer, and this seems to be one of those instances where things are designed to keep a layperson such as myself uninformed. I’m also lazy and preoccupied, so I didn’t keep digging after I got to “repealed.”

          Michigan’s liquor control laws are an insane mess, anyway. It’s set up so that retailers have to purchase their products from highly territorial distributors. The state sets a minimum price for all hard alcohols, preventing competitive pricing (some do sell at a higher price, but there’s guaranteed to be someone nearby selling at minimum). Full-strength Everclear is illegal here, yet you can buy stronger grain alcohols with other brand names freely (don’t ask me for names, I’m a bourbon man). There are arbitrary restrictions on how and when licenses are issued, which seem to change based on the mood of the issuing authority.

        • I’m also not a lawyer, and this seems to be one of those instances where things are designed to keep a layperson such as myself uninformed.

          Nonsense. Obviously you don’t carry a gun in Michigan. There are only a few laws you need to be aware of, and not only should these have been gone over thoroughly in your CPL class, but rigorous discussion of them occurs almost daily on MI gun forums.

          The law is pretty easy to understand and does not require one to be an attorney. Typically the only thing some people don’t realize is that you can open carry with CPL in most PFZ’s where you cannot conceal carry.

        • I was referring to the electronic database linking to the section of law that simply says “repealed” without clear and easy reference to the newer law which supersedes it. Also, talking about liquor law specifically, not necessarily as it applies to carry.

    • False, firearm liquor laws in MI only apply to establishments that sell alcoholic beverages by the glass to be consumed on the premisis.

      You shouldn’t post if you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

      • To be fair, a lot of MI CCW instructors have a lot of bad information, and freely distribute that information to their students. I once argued for hours on end with a concealed carrier who was (and probably still is) convinced there’s an absolute, unwavering federal ban on weapons in houses of worship.

        • a lot of MI CCW instructors have a lot of bad information

          Where are these instructors getting this bad info from? You are probably referring to instructors who conduct classes that do not conform to MI law, and there are a lot of them. If the MI gov ever gets wind of them all, they could invalidate many MI CPLs.

          Many MI CPL classes don’t meet law because they do not have qualified people teaching the legal portion of the class. That’s where this bad info is coming from.

          there’s an absolute, unwavering federal ban on weapons in houses of worship

          Tell him to show you the law. That’s the quickest way to shut these idiots up. Works great on liberals who lie, too. Make them prove their assertion.

        • I’ve got one better, my last few months in the service were with the Base Honor Guard, where we did numerous color postings and other ceremonies in churches which involved Garands, M14s, and swords. We had copies of the state (SC) and federal laws that applied, and it all boiled down to getting permission. Which was never an issue. We respected every local law as if we were civilians, just to avoid any possible confrontations (often told clients there were things we couldn’t do for that very reason, even when there was technically a carve out).

          This is also an individual I’m not in a rush to reconnect with, last time I spoke with him he dropped some strong hints that his “independent, peaceful, law-abiding” motorcycle enthusiast’s club was less “independent” than claimed (some stuff about their president laying low after the Outlaws leadership got busted on RICO).

          Trust me, I always get things in writing. It’s gotten me in trouble in the short term often, but always plays out in the end. “That’s how we’ve always done it,” does not carry the weight of law. The law does.

  13. I see many are wearing sunglasses, most likely to remain anonymous. I wouldn’t want people to recognize me with this nutbag operation.

  14. I was about to say “Nice job by Mlive reporting this- gave both sides the chance to get their points out, and didnt appear to propagandize or take sides” but reading closer I see there was a first article posted at 2:30 pm, with the reporter in comments later saying “no one was available from NRA”, etc to give a counter view.

    Then in later comments Michigan Open Carry gave the reporter a LOT of more accurate info, and suggested a correction, and to his credit, the reporter and Mlive updated the second report at 6:5pm.

    So, point and match, to Michigan POTG, thanks to Michigan Open Carry, beating the propaganda with the facts, again.

    I’d really like to give the various regional MDA Chapter heads the benefit of the doubt that they believe they are doing the right thing- but once again, here- looking at Kristin Moores age, and those of her volunteers,
    the carefully staged “faux” event, the cooked talking points, and the complete refusal to give credit to facts raised, no- sorry,

    I am not willing to give them that benefit of the doubt – when you get to that age, you know that “feelings aren’t facts”, and their continuing deceptive arguments reveal themselves to be dishonest. And that fits with everything else we know about national MAIG, MDA, and Everytown- just one “campaign” after another funded by Bloomberg. Its about as grassroots as Talking Points Media. Just more top-down progressive agitprop, carefully staged and curated, after with help by sympathetic media. Propaganda, in other words.

    And reading the comments on Mlive, even in fairly liberal Ann Arbor, the local community is not buying what MDA is selling either…

    • I’d really like to give the various regional MDA Chapter heads the benefit of the doubt that they believe they are doing the right thing

      Why? They knowingly lie. Repeatedly. We have politely talked to them and pointed out their lies, only to have our corrections ignored and our comments deleted, erased from their history because they do not care about the truth, only getting their way. Do not give them the benefit of the doubt. They know exactly what they are doing.

  16. I used to open carry a .357 magnum into that store often right after 9/11. No one said jack squat. Screw them

    • These same moms probably looked at you like their brother right after 9/11. Enough time has passed since that dramatic event that the bored and idle look at whoever is in the near vicinity and divide them into friends and enemies to add a little drama to their lives.

  19. You know Robert, here is a historical reference to consider. I know that Ms. Watts has stated in the past that she think MDA will be to gun control that MADD was to drunk driving. Personally though, I see them as the modern day Women’s Christian Temperance Union and their (ultimately) failed crusade for prohibition. Let’s just hope that we learn from history and stop the movement before amendments and rights are altered and the rest of the country realizes what a grave mistake had occurred (like prohibition).

  20. The MDA will be like MADD only if insurance companies and the law find a way to profit from the new laws. Drunk driving is big business for all the entities involved yet people still drive drunk.

  22. Here’s a piece of info for ya: I had never even heard of Mothers Demand Action (etc.etc.) before reading this website a year or so ago.

    I always thought MDA stood for Missile Defense Agency.

    Seems that the Moms ain’t exactly killing it out there.

  23. Given Kroger’s stance on the subject (“we follow local laws, don’t drag us into the politics”), why would they even give permission for this “protest” to occur on their property?

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