“A bill pending in the state Legislature (S.B. 59) would, for the first time, allow individuals who have a permit to carry a concealed handgun on school property, in places of worship, day care centers, sports arenas, bars, hospitals, college dormitories and classrooms,” detroitnews.com reports. Wait. Editorializes. Needless to say, the Detroit News is happy to provide e-space for a couple of gun grabbers intent on shooting down any idea of any concealed carry anywhere. And they bring facts! Well, something that looks like facts . . .
The telephone survey of 600 registered voters, conducted by EPIC-MRA of Lansing in early April, found that 72 percent said they opposed the bill — with 63 percent strongly opposed. Only 25 percent favored the bill.
The poll also found that a majority of those who said they had a concealed weapons permit opposed the bill, by 53-44 percent.
EPIC-MRA President Bernie Porn, asked to analyze the data, found that “every demographic group opposes the proposal, including tea party supporters, Romney voters, and of course CCW permit-holder households. The bill totally ignores public opinion on where people should be able to carry guns.”
Supporters of the bill attacked the survey as having been done by “radical anti-gun groups.”
Nice of them to mention that. Skeptical DTN readers might also be interested to learn that EPIC-MRA ain’t exactly Rasmussen. The acronym-intensive polling org is one of those left-leaning ROBO call professional advocacy groups. From their website:
From writing and refining the survey instrument to meet your needs, to designing the survey sample frame, administering the interviews, entering the data, conducting the analysis, and compiling the written reports and advancing recommendations, EPIC·MRA partners with you every step of the way.
The editorial’s authors: Andy Pelosi is the director of the Campaign to Keep Guns Off Campus and Randy Block is director of the Michigan Unitarian Universalist Social Justice Network. The duo hired EPIC-MRA to conduct the survey. And then wrote this faux news article to promote its results.
Here’s where the leopard reveals its spots.
The unintended consequences of having guns readily available in these locations would make them more dangerous.
No amount of one-time training (the law requires nine hours of additional training before carrying into these areas — not annually, but one time only, with the firing of just 94 rounds) is going to give amateur vigilantes the ability to make the critical decision to shoot or not to shoot that even law enforcement officers seek to avoid.
As the head of security at Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids points out, it’s very possible that during a crisis, a civilian who pulls a gun aiming to stop a criminal could easily find him or herself the target of law enforcement officers scanning a crowd for danger.
So not only would an armed citizen fail to stop murder and mayhem, the cops are going to shoot their ass. The article concludes with more skewed data from the Violence Policy Center’s “Concealed Carry Killers” agit-prop.
The gun rights movement is pushing back against those who’d push them into a corner. And when push comes to shove, as NRA Prez Wayne LaPierre famously pronounced, those that have the guns make the rules. Or should do.
The polling question probably went something like this: Do you support a law that would allow mass murder of young men in the night wearing hoodies minding their own business on school property near a church on a playground?
Sure! Sign me up.
A very significant senior moment. Text amended. Don’t ask, don’t tell.
They present concealed carry like people are just chomping at the bit to shoot someone, if ONLY there was an excuse.
I do not by any stretch of the imagination want to be forced to use my gun to defend myself. That said, at the same time I have not deluded myself into thinking that I am safe simply because of where I live, what my home security system is like, and so on. Bad things happen everywhere no matter how statistically improbable, and I don’t want to end up a statistic.
The guy on the right looks like he is sleep shooting.
As a very fresh michigan resident I sure hope this passes as a similar bill did in Ohio
What bill is that?
I second this question. As a brand new Ohio resident (God help me, what have I done??), I have been pouring over gun law and case laws, and can’t find the bill you are talking about.
Hyperlink maybe?
I don’t count the Bar Carry law as similar, as it only applies to one of the places mentioned in the Michigan bill. And I can only hope that Hospital carry gets brought up in OH and passes. That would make my work environment so much better.
Welcome to the right side of the river, though you will need to keep your shoes on while driving and learn to count without using your toes. 🙂
SSDD from gun grabbers. Keep up with the repeatedly disproved and failed arguments guys…seriously, please do, it helps us so much.
“The poll also found that a majority of those who said they had a concealed weapons permit opposed the bill, by 53-44 percent.”
I question and call bullshit on the whole thing, but this line, particularly. The vast majority of the permit holders (and gun enthusiasts) I know are also the type of people who (1) wouldn’t respond to a stupid telephone poll, and (2) if they did decide to respond to a telephone poll, would certainly not admit gun ownership, a permit, etc. to a random caller. I would like to know how may of those 600 people were self-identified as permit holders.
If I went down to my local gun store and asked 100 permit holders, “Would you support or oppose a bill expanding where permit holders were allowed to carry to (the above listed locations)?” I estimate at least an 85% approval rating, if not more, because I’d be “among friends” and, precisely because it’s not anonymous like a phone poll, I think I’d get more honest answers.
FYI Wayne LaPierre is the NRA’s executive vice president David Keene is the current president.
Yes I was referring to the bar carry law, it also includes sports venues etc etc. And in Ohio you can already carry for example in a place of worship
It would be nice if we could carry on campus seeing how most of our big universities are in very bad parts of town.
Andy, let me expound a bit on Ohio gun laws.
Yes, you can carry in a bar, if you have a ccw license, and the bar does not ban carrying guns. However, YOU MAY NOT HAVE SO MUCH AS A DROP OF ALCOHOL. To do so is a FELONY.
Yes, you can carry in a church with a ccw license. That is, if the church specifically allows it, and they don”t have to post “no guns” signage. In other words, carrying in Ohio churches is already banned, but each individual church is exempt and may allow carry.
Yes, you can carry in a “sports venue” if you have a ccw license. However, the event must not be related to anything school-wise (high school championships, college playoffs, etc.) which are still banned under state and federal law. And, the owners/management may ban carrying on their property, just like all private property owners in Ohio now have the Right to do.
Ohio’s CCW laws, while having been improved over the years thanks to organizations such as OFCC and Buckeye Firearms, are still some of the most confusing, convoluted, and misunderstood statutes among the several states.
I was pilled out of my truck, at gunpoint, by 4 Springfield, Ohio cops in January 2007 BECAUSE I WAS OBEYING THE LAW.. The cops did not understand the very law(s) they had sworn to enforce.
These, among others, are some of the reasons why I am very proud to be a Texan now.
Also, I’m the guy that took on Toledo, Ohio in 2004/2005 over their illegal bans on CCW. Google “Bruce Beatty Concealed Carry Ohio” for more info.
From a friend of mine–A Bald Faced Lie!
““A bill pending in the state Legislature (S.B. 59) would, for the first time, allow individuals who have a permit to carry a concealed handgun on school property, in places of worship, day care centers, sports arenas, bars, hospitals, college dormitories and classrooms,” detroitnews.com reports.”
It was not until Michigan became a “Shall Issue State” that those rights were curtailed. Previously, under a general permit, all of those places were open to concealed carry.
Surveys are way too easily twisted to ever trust.
Now this is disturbing. I posted a well thought out and nicely articulated comment on that article yesterday. It isn’t showing up today. I guess the Detroit News is willing to remove such comments to condemn citizens who are interested in being able to defend themselves … and who are able to respectfully explain why it’s the right thing to do.
As a Michigan CPL holder, I support this legislation. What needs to be clarified however, is that currently a cpl holder can choose to legally open carry in these zones. If every cpl holder would choose to open carry in the zones, I think much of the opposition to this legislation would suddenly disappear.
MSP Legal Update 86 explains the current state of Michigan gun law quite well.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf
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