Most ATF-Traced Massachusetts “Crime Guns” Came from . . . Massachusetts

1. I wonder if Mike “The Gun Schmuck” Weisser was the source of any of the MA ones?

2. Facts melt snowflakes.

   Although, I suppose the anti-liberty crowd would argue that if they just banned and confiscated all guns from MA residents, the percentage of guns from out-of-state used in a gun-crime would likely go up… or something.

   Tra-la-la-la-la…

3. Don’t confuse the dems with facts they can’t understand the truth.

4. change the link. Your redirecting to an internet web hosting site it looks like. It’s L, not I.

5. wwlp just killed the comment section on that story. guess they don’t want to be called out on their BS

   • Spam them with calls and emails.

   • “Who knew gun laws carried guns? I hope they have a permit.” I remember when any law had to have a “permit,” from our republic by way of Congress. Now, not so much, laws don’t even have to be enforced, but we’re still spending Billions on enforcement. I hope Trump can do 1/10 of his campaign, especially with his “RINO majorities” watering down our priorities.

6. To be honest, I’m not sure I understand what the complaint is in this article. Over half of the guns traced came from outside the state of Massachusetts. I think that’s a reasonable point, so the story seems valid.

   That being said, it’s still pointless as I’d imagine the bulk of the guns traced were either stolen, straw purchased, or some other existing crime. A more relevant story would be how many of these guns were seized from previously incarcerated individuals already banned from posessing a firearm… I’d imagine that’s over 50%. Maybe the problem isn’t where the guns came from, it’s what sewer the criminals were prematurely released from.

   • “A more relevant story would be how many of these guns were seized from previously incarcerated individuals already banned from posessing a firearm… I’d imagine that’s over 50%.”

     That may very well likely be the case, but that will never be what is of interest to the progressive media. The inanimate GUNS are the issue. The humans who steal them, transport them, or even those who actually utilize them in crimes are products of their sadly deprived environments……..can’t possibly blame them.

   • But how many of the guns traced were obtained in Mass.???

     • 419; 37%

7. This is a good example of where the Antis use some vague statistic to “prove” some point such as the “iron road” of gun-trafficking. The reality is that there is not enough context in the data. If figures on gun traces I’ve seen a very large fraction of the traced guns are remarkably old; an average of 10 years from 1’st sale to time of discovery. What could possibly account for such a long average? The guns were lawfully purchased 10 years ago and then stolen; to this extent, how did the tracing inform the investigation? The guns were lawfully purchased 10 years ago and, then, sold lawfully. Perhaps – eventually – the gun was sold/traded to an FFL who sold it used to a straw-buyer. The gun can’t be traced to the FFL who sold to the straw-buyer (because the tracing system has no clue which FFL sold the gun USED). So, the tracing system doesn’t work. Data such as reported here tells us nothing really useful about how guns leak from the lawful market into the black-market.
   Until last week, this fuzzy statistics and fuzzy use of statistics is all by design. The anti’s want the statistics to be as fuzzy as possible so they can ascribe their own interpretation to the data.
   We need Trump to compel the ATF, FBI, etc. to do honest research on the data that is available and generate additional data that will illuminate gun crime, suicides and accidents that will give accurate illumination to the incidents. I expect that honest research and additional data will support our hypothesis that “gun-control” is hardly ever a cost-effective approach to any problem. Screening for depression would probably be cost-effective for suicides. criminal-control for homicides. Safety-training for accidents. If we concentrate on looking for solutions that WOULD WORK we will waste less time on feel-good measures that CAN’T WORK.

8. Cherry picking?

   If I did it right, there were 1126 incidents involving guns. Of those, 417 of the guns originated in Mass (0.372). 37% is accurately described as “a large portion”.

   The remaining 707 (73%) guns did originate outside of Mass. That would be accurately described as “most guns used in crimes come from outside Mass.”

   The reported claims seem proper; not “cherry picking”. Mass did/does account for the most “crime guns” from a single source, but the total picture is supported by the rest of the numbers. Gun problems in Mass are originating in other states. Do all the other states have horribly lax gun controls? The data does not seem to support that claim (when made).

   • The story is factually true but not complete. Key data has been ignored in order to present a narrative, Does that work?

     • I agree most TV news reports are incomplete. In this case, Mass has long complained that most of the guns used in crimes in Mass come from other states. The data presented appears to support that claim. That seems complete as regards the claim. Is there more information that might prove entertaining? Yes. But RF was trying to use this posting as proof that anti-gunners “cherry pick” facts. The claim stated in the posting was that a news source in Mass declared that a large portion (37%) of the guns used in crimes come from out of state. Unless the data presented is totally bogus, it matters not that the single largest source of said guns is Mass, the largest portion of the “crime guns” originate outside Mass. I just cannot see how, in this case, RF can support a charge of “cherry picking”.

9. How about a study on where the criminals originated?

   • It doesn’t matter here in MA., the current AG did not wander into the gun issue until the Pulse nightclub was a target of terrorism. That’s right the Pulse an “alternative” + gay nightclub. Can anybody guess which persuasion our AG is? Her motivation is her groin which makes her no better than any testosterone heavy male and I see no difference between this and Donald Trump’s utterance’s to Billy Bush.

10. So criminals buy/steal local, is this the take away?

11. How many of these “criminal incidents” actually had victims? I just wonder if a large portion of the out-of-state guns seized were for victimless “offenses” like driving through the state with guns in the trunk.

    • You got that right! Massachusetts is just full of Political and Police corruption. It is an incredibly anti-freedom state…Where having a light out, minor traffic offence, a rejection sticker, window tint issue, etc…Gets you a “a felony-stop” by highly aggressive paramilitarizied local, or state police…Profit trolling for towns, or state for ticket quotas, unknown warrants, fines, or someone soon to be criminalized…These compliants come from it’s frightened citizenry…And there has be numerous “local news reports” to back up this claim!

12. It is actually 63% came from outside MA and 37% from inside MA, but the analysis it’s not “cherry picking” is correct. It might have been a stronger story had the Reporter included the number of guns traced to originating within MA to show the disparity between internal and external sources of illegal guns.

    In VICELAND’s televised documentary report “BLACK MARKET: The Iron Pipeline” they interviewed a former gun seller based in Atlanta, Georgia, who explained that he acquired guns to sell in NYC and Chicago by using “straw buyers” who bought guns at Atlanta Gun Shows from private persons who had tables alongside Licensed FFL dealers for cash “no questions asked” (except price). Georgia Gun Law permits Private Party gun sales with no background check or FFL paperwork, unlike some States. The former seller also described how gangs stole guns from pawnshops and other locations where they could seize larger quantities of guns in one smash and grab before the Police arrived.

    The hard fact is that where States do not extend the Background Check and FFL Dealer involvement to Private Party Sales, Black Market gun sellers are able to legally acquire firearms for subsequent illegal sales in other States like Massachusetts. I am not advocating Georgia and others infringe on private sales, but reporting facts as they are.

    The logical conclusion is to point-out that if States, like MA, were not enacting un-Constitutional, restrictive gun controls, the Black Market trade in guns originating from other States would be less of an issue. I would not expect the Black Market in guns to wither away, but for each State it would become more of a local jurisdiction problem and they would have to expend their resources dealing with their own criminals rather than infringing the rights of law-abiding citizens and bellyaching about the “problems other States are creating” for them. Simple.

    • It was only 20% of the guns used in crime that they even started with. So the entire exercise means absolutely nothing. Even if they had mentioned how they come to suspect those *were* guns used in any crime, which I did not detect. I suspect it is all made up BS.

      • The linked report did not seem to be focused on whether the guns were used in a crime, but that they were illegally present/possessed in Massachusetts. That is sort of “made-up BS” because it is precisely because MA enacted “gun control laws” in the first place that made them illegal to be present/possessed in the first place. Those in the possession of “prohibited persons” (e.g. convicted felons, for example) would be illegal in any State.

    • “The hard fact is that where States do not extend the Background Check and FFL Dealer involvement to Private Party Sales, Black Market gun sellers are able to legally acquire firearms for subsequent illegal sales in other States like Massachusetts”

      Another hard fact is that Black Market gun sellers can illegally acquire as many firearms as they like for subsequent illegal sales from states that *do* extend the BC and FFL dealer involvement, because the laws are unenforced and unenforceable. Pretending the laws make some difference without any evidence is not helping argue for the “common sense” of these pie-in-the-sky stupid laws.

      • I am merely looking at the facts, and my conclusion is/was that Massachusetts created a “problem” by enacting illegal gun control laws in the first place. If MA was obeying the Second Amendment, the argument advanced in the linked ATF report would be irrelevant, and probably never written.

    • My bad regarding 73%; on-the-fly calculation.

      Did not know GA allowed any person, from anywhere, to participate in a private sale of firearms. My “impression” was that each state allowed private sales between residents of the state where the sale took place. New knowledge acquired.

      Thanx

      • I do not know when VICE TV recorded the Gun Show Straw purchase. What they reported and recorded was that a “Straw Buyer” was given a sum of cash. He entered a Gun Show in Atlanta, Georgia, where it was stated Private Individuals have tables, as well as licensed FFLs. The SB walks up to a table and looks at three pistols lying together. One a small semi-auto and two small revolvers. The table “owner” walks over and they exchange a few word about price. The TO asks the SB if he is “all right” and the SB replies that he is. The SB pays the Table Owner and puts the three pistols into a small box and leaves. They were subsequently taken to another State (New York, I think) and sold to buyers who may or may not have been prohibited persons.

        I was under the same impression as you and found this a bit shocking. Eighteen States have imposed background check requirements for gun sales classified as “Private” Sales to various degrees. Georgia is not one of those States.

        You can see the report on the Internet at VICELAND’s web site. BLACK MARKET:The Iron Pipeline. It reports some other interesting aspects of the firearms Black Market, as well.

13. So Facebook will no doubt be blocking this fake news?

14. I think you mean WWLP, not wwip.
    WWLP is Channel 22 in Springfield, Mass.

15. Ridiculous. Does no one have any interest in how much $$ MA spent to collect all this useless data and to filter it of any indication of just how irrelevant it is, before gathering it all up into a steaming pile to present to the world in order to demonstrate … nothing? So what? Who cares? And how many taxpayer dollars did you spend for absolutely nothing? When are you up for reelection, and if not, what is the name of your freaking BOSS?

16. The 2nd amendment coalition needs to put extreme pressure on states like Massachusetts that are infringing (daily) on Massachusetts residents 2nd amendment civil rights! An amendment needs to be drawn up to make it a “Capital Crime” for any Politicians/Law Enforcement/Government agency/ private business/private organizations, etc…From any infringement against US citizen from exercising their 2nd amendment rights under full force of law! As well , as it expanded to any other rights pertaining to the people!

17. …Long prison terms for violators…And 250k compensation to any Lawful US citizens effected…..Massachusetts AG. and RINO. Gov. Charlie “The Barker” Baker should be on such a list….

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