To avoid blood pressure elevation skip ahead to 5:15 on the video above. That’s when MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow begins her diet-tribe [sic] against the .50 caliber round and rifle and laws that “allow” such a thing to be sold to American citizens. Reader JP writes: “Rachel outlines the shocking problem we have with 18-year-old kids buying these rifles and shooting down helicopters. Poor Rachel is just beside herself with horror of this totally fabricated and non-existent problem, and wonders if Governor Christie will be able to survive not signing such an obviously sensible piece of legislation. My cynical radar is conflicted as to whether this is a cynical piece of anti-gun legislation that nibbles on emotional and irrational low hanging fruit, or if it’s a cynical tactic by the anti-Christie forces trying to make him look like a lapdog of the +2A crowd if he vetoes this utterly unnecessary and silly bill.”

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74 COMMENTS

    • have you seen what people are naming their kids now days? at least they named him with a real name and not a place, emotion, or characteristic.

      hows North West for a first and last name?
      being named Rachel sure beats being named desire or beautiful.

    • LOL…I knew a boy named Sue…

      1st question to the butch young man,,,er woman? how many helicopters have been shot down using a 50 cal on U.S soil?…..exactly ZERO

      2nd question who watches or listens to what MSLSD has to say?

      • The problem is the classic one of the antis knot knowing what they are talking about. The sales pitch they used from Barrett (or was it Browning?) is just that – a sales pitch. They also fail to understand that the company meant a stationary aircraft, not a moving one. I don’t care how good you are, the circumstances under which a 50 could be used to down an actual aircraft (of any kind) in flight are so rare, you have a better chance of seeing a unicorn. However, you can easily disable an aircraft parked on the ramp, even without the 50.

  4. Interesting side note. In CA, .50 BMG rifles are illegal. However, there is a company that makes a 50-20 (20-50? don’t remember) rifle. It’s a 20mm shell necked down to .50. And its 100% CA legal.

  6. Rachel Maddow has said very stupid thing at MSNBC’s but this take cake. I well not be supress if this happens again just becuase MSNBC know for people saying stupid things on gun issues other issues.

  7. I couldn’t take it anymore after the reference the terror watch list ban. Video ended. I hope to hear her never complain about the NSA.

      • The term “statist” needs used more often. The true division amongst the people – not the politicians – is between statists and civil libertarians. There are people in both camps in both political parties. I am looking at you, Lindsey Graham.

  8. I don’t know a lot of 18 year olds (or anybody much else for that matter) that can afford to pay well over 4 grand for a rifle, much less carry it around when it is longer than they are tall. No sane people have a problem with 50s.

    That being said, it is in incredible how many were sold during operation fast and furious. Apparently the Mexican drug cartels like them mucho.

  10. Did I just hear that guy say that Rand Paul was from Iowa or that Marco Rubio was from South Carolina?

  11. I swear these people must get a kickback from the gun companies. This kind of screed just makes me want to run out right now and buy one, for the sole reason that Rachel Maddow doesn’t want me to have one.

    • I agree… I never contemplated purchasing one of these chunks of heavy metal (none too range friendly). And yet, I really feel I should not be denied the right to own one.
      BTW, a broken bottle bottle is an ‘Assault Weapon’ if it’s used to actually assault someone. Obviously we shouldn’t be trusted with those either.

  12. There’s a reason this airhead is called Rachel MadCow…. Hasn’t got a clue. Now .50 BMGs can be used to take down jet aircraft?

    • That is technically true. US fighter aircraft shot down lots of other aircraft with the 50 caliber BMG round. Usually 6 M-2s (8 in the case of the P-47). Of course they fired thousands of rounds a minute to get the job done.

    • So the democrats will hate him for vetoing the 3 bills, and republicans will hate him for signing 10. Works for me, he’s the biggest pile of steaming RINO dung in the country. Closely followed by McCain.

  15. Come on, now. Everyone knows that isn’t anything to worry about with a regular .50bmg rifle shooting standard ammunition. Everyone knows you have to have those special heat seeking bullets to shoot down aircraft. Durrrr…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRQqieimwLQ

    And, why would I even want one of those when I can just use my AR-15 to shoot down passenger jets? Why am I going to go out and spend $8000+ on a Barrett when I can use my $900 AR-15?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHHToXki_fc

    But, seriously, does that she not understand how much those rifles she is having a panic attack for no reason even cost? They are far beyond the means of the average 18 year old. If an 18 year old is so hell-bent on shooting down a helicopter that he is going to save up over 8 grand to buy one of these rifles to do so, I think we need to start worrying about other things with him. Why is he so incredibly stupid? That would be a good starting point. If you want to bring down a helicopter, you may as well look into the black market and just buy an RPG. It will probably cost a lot less. Even if it is $2000 for the RPG launcher(what I am finding on a search of google is saying a rough price of $500, so my number is shooting 4x higher in case of error) and you say $300 per rocket(google again said about $50-$100) and you buy 10 of them so you can practice in this theoretical HUGE area of land that who knows why the hell a heli would even be flying on with 8 shots and still have 2 left for what you intended, you are STILL over $3000 cheaper than if you had ONLY bought the rifle. That doesn’t add in the cost of ammo for the rifle.

    Then again, the more I think about it, Maddow saying what she said doesn’t surprise me. Stupid people having stupid thoughts only makes sense. An idiot leading idiots. Imagine that.

    Edit: *personal thoughts* Still hoping there can be an option for selecting themes on this site. The old one was A LOT more aesthetically appealing and seemed much easier to read.

    • If I wanted to shoot down a helicopter, the easiest option is a model rocket trailing a length of steel cable.

    • While it would likely take more than one .50 BMG round to bring down a Blackhawk, I guarantee an RPG, well placed, will ruin your whole day. Those things are scary as fvck.

      The model rocket comment made me chuckle. Maybe if it got sucked into the intake on a single engine helo, but not bloody likely 🙂

        • Rockets with cables have been used in wartime to try to bring down aircraft. To the best of my knowledge it has never been successful.

  17. Wow.

    Beauty may be only skin-deep, but stupid goes all the way to the marrow.

    I feel something akin to what Attila expressed when a terrified, newly-minted Legionnaire was brought cowering and sniveling before him for interrogation: “Surely, this is not the enemy?!?”

    Just — wow.

    • I do not carrot all for sort of humor peppering this blog; I’m tempted to stalk off, but lettuce instead agree to refrain from it in future. Shouldn’t want any differences to mushroom, so shall we berry the hatchet, as ’twere?

      Besides, why would anyone or anything radish Ms. Mad-Cow…?

  21. I think the last time the .50 BMG was regularly used to take down aircraft they were mounted on the wings of P-51s. I’d wager that the combined US Special Forces-people that would actually know how to use them (and exist) and not a hypothetical 18 year old- have brought down fewer aircraft than drunk pilots.

    • *To clarify that, what that last sentence is supposed to say is “I think that Special Forces operators with .50 BMG rifles have probably brought down fewer aircraft than intoxicated pilots”.

      • Considering just about all SOF missions have little to nothing to do with shooting down aircraft, I’d think you’re on to something. I’m willing to bet a sniper or two has blown up or rendered unusable some airplanes on the ground with the .50 though.

      • On the same note, the venerable 7.62x54R round which many of us love to blast away with in our Mosins is in essence delinked .30 cal machine gun ammo, which was used to great effect by Russian anti-aircraft gunners and fighter pilots to shoot down Luftwaffe aircraft in WWII.

    • The F-86 Saber used .50 cal during the Korean War. It carried 6 Browning Ma-Deuces before switching to 4 20mm cannons.

      And a bird strike can bring down an aircraft- remember Capt. Sulley? What’s Madcow gonna do- outlaw geese?

      • Well I can think of a few Minnesotan friends that would support the outlawing of Geese. The Canada Goose is the scourge of the Land of 1000 Lakes. And their cars.

  22. Not one rifle round in that line-up. Big-game cartridges will also penetrate steel easily. Maddow’s diatribe is extremely selective with information. She apparently doesn’t understand much about firearms, but someone producing her report knows enough to only show short pistol ammunition when trying paint the .50BMG as “exceptional”. Ban the .50BMG, “because it’s the most powerful cartridge available to civilians.” Well, then there will be another most powerful cartridge to ban, then another, until we’re keeping wiffle bats by our bedsides.

    But come on, is .50BMG tearing up our streets? Hasn’t she heard about the concealable 5.7x28mm cop-killer pistols that have killed zero police officers in this nation? You know, that ammo the ATF officially determined to not penetrate police armor in their testing.

    I am embarrassed when talking about things I know little about, and would be extremely reluctant to speak publicly on an issue I did not understand very well. Maddow may be a professional talking head, but she should still be ashamed for urging action on a basis of knowledge even she would probably admit is very shallow.

  23. Her reference to an “AR15 Assault Rifle”…….the usual stupidity that permeats MSM. M16 is actually the proper nomenclature for a .223 (5.56 technically) assault rifle. It seems that these idiots just can’t seem to get ANY informational accuracy. Hysterical blather.

  26. The aircraft in this country are generally safe, as noone really wants to shoot one down unless she’s in it.

  27. Strictly speaking, there is on record a zero in ww2 getting shot down by a pilot shooting his 1911 while parachuting to safety, does she propose banning 45 acp to?
    What maddow seems to be ignoring for the sake of convenience is just how hard it is to hit a moving aircraft, the manuals advise aiming in increments fo football fields. Throw in the fact that owning a Barrett is already cost prohibitive and it’s safe to say she’s living in a dream world.

    • True story – from Air Force Magazine:

      David and Goliath-2d Lt. Owen J. Baggett

      By John L. Frisbee

      Many extraordinary encounters took place in the skies of World War II but none more bizarre than this.

      The Tenth Air Force in India was, 5 throughout most of its life, the smallest of the AAF’s combat air forces but with a large geographical area of responsibility and an important mission. It was responsible for helping to defend the supply line from India to China and for interdicting the Japanese supply net running from Rangoon, Burma, to the north of that country. Its heavy bomber force – consisting of a few B-24s – was the 7th Bomb Group, based at Pandaveswar, northwest of Calcutta, whence it flew very long missions to targets mostly in Burma. On March 31, 1943, the 7th BG’s 9th Bomb Squadron was dispatched to destroy a railroad bridge at Pyinmana, about halfway between Rangoon and Mandalay and near two active enemy fighter bases. The formation was led by Col. Conrad F. Necrason, 7th BG commander, The B-24 on his right wing was piloted by 1st Lt. Lloyd Jensen whose copilot was 2d Lt. Owen J. Baggett. On that mission, Baggett was to earn a distinction believed to be unique in Air Force history. Before reaching the target, the B- 24s were attacked by fighters. Colonel Necrason was severely wounded, and Jensen’s aircraft was fatally damaged. Oxygen bottles were shattered, intensifying a fire in the rear of Jensen’s bomber. Nineteen-year-old Sgt. Samuel Crostic slid out of his top turret, grabbed two fire extinguishers, and fought the fire in the rear of the aircraft while standing on a catwalk over the open bomb bay. The plane still was under attack by enemy fighters, taking many hits along its fuselage. To help defend the aircraft, copilot Baggett took over the top turret until Sergeant Crostic had emptied his fire extinguishers, giving the crew time to prepare for bailout. Smoke and fumes filled the 8-24. Jensen ordered the crew to bail out.

      With the intercom inoperative, Baggett hand-signaled the gunners to hit the silk and, nearly overcome by fumes, put on his own chute. He next remembers floating down with a good chute. He saw four more open canopies before the bomber exploded. The Japanese pilots immediately began strafing the surviving crewmen, apparently killing some of them and grazing Lieutenant Baggett’s arm. The pilot who had hit Baggett circled to finish him off or perhaps only to get a better look at his victim. Baggett pretended to be dead, hoping the Zero pilot would not fire again. In any event, the pilot opened his canopy and approached within feet of Baggett’s chute, nose up and on the verge of a stall. Baggett, enraged by the strafing of his helpless crew mates, raised the .45 automatic concealed against his leg and fired four shots at the open cockpit. The Zero stalled and spun in.

      After Baggett hit the ground, enemy pilots continued to strafe him, but he escaped by hiding behind a tree. Lieutenant Jensen and one of the gunners landed near him. All three were captured by the Burmese and turned over to the Japanese. Sergeant Crostic also survived the bail-out. Baggett and Jensen were flown out of Burma in an enemy bomber and imprisoned near Singapore. In the more than two years he was held prisoner, Owen Baggett’s weight dropped from 180 pounds to ninety. He had ample time to think about his midair dual. He did not at first believe it possible that he could have shot down the enemy while swinging in his chute, but gradually pieces of the puzzle came together. Shortly after he was imprisoned, Baggett, Jensen, and another officer were taken before a Japanese major general who was in charge of all POWs in the area and who subsequently was executed as a war criminal. Baggett appeared to be treated like a celebrity. He was offered the opportunity of and given instructions on how to do the “honorable thing” – commit hara-kiri, a proposal he declined.

      A few months later, Col. Harry Melton, commander of the 311th Fighter Group who had been shot down, passed through the POW camp and told Baggett that a Japanese colonel said the pilot Owen Baggett had fired at had been thrown clear of his plane when it crashed and burned. He was found dead of a single bullet in his head. Colonel Melton intended to make an official report of the incident but lost his life when the ship on which he was being taken to Japan was sunk. Two other pieces of evidence support Baggett’s account: First, no friendly fighters were in the area that could have downed the Zero pilot. Second, the incident took place at an altitude of 4,000 to 5,000 feet. The pilot could have recovered from an unintentional stall and spin. Retired Colonel Baggett, now living in San Antonio, Tex., believes he shot down the Japanese pilot, but because that judgment is based on largely indirect and circumstantial evidence, he remains reluctant to talk much about it. We think the jury no longer is out. There appears to be no reasonable doubt that Owen Baggett performed a unique act of valor, unlikely to be repeated in the unfolding annals of air warfare.

      Thanks to Colonel Baggett and to Charles V. Duncan, Jr., author of B-24 Over Burma.

      AIR FORCE Magazine / July 1996

  28. Of 65 replies, only about 10% or so made reference to Maddow’s lack of “proper” feminine affect, so TTAG is making progress on the high-school-locker-room-mentality front. If she put on a blonde wig, about 6 mils of makeup, and spouted a bunch of right-wing nonsense, you guys would all be reaching for the “gun oil”, if you know what I mean. Seriously, Anne Coulter has a freaking Adams Apple.

    Seriously, while celebs are fair game for comments about appearance, etc., we undermine our arguments with juvenile bullshit. Unless it’s me talking about Anne Coulter’s Adam’s Apple. That’s okay, right?

  29. Shouldn’t legislation targeting powerful rounds be targeting energy, not caliber? .50 GI isn’t exactly an anti-materiel or extreme-distance round. A .416 Barrett would serve much better in that capacity. But of course, this legislation was written by people who don’t even understand what they’re banning. It’s just some kind of weapon, and that’s enough to convince many to support a ban.

  30. More stupid liberals who think they’re better than thou and of course ,know zip about guns,but will opinionize on them anyway cause their black and evil and ” I just don’t like them and you shouldn’t like them or want them either and you’re a monster if you do and gun owners should all go to jail cause they are all the reason New York and Chicago are Murder Central and civilians don’t ‘NEED’ ‘ASSAULT’ weapons and,and,and…….150% of Americans ,based on the most current updated (MAIG) polls of American(622 people polled in NY and Calif) say that COMMON SENSE says you don’t NEED a gun either you should just get MURDERED and be happy about it.

  31. This is the same idiot that thought all plastic Glock 7s are a real thing.

    Not in the least surprised.

  32. She said any 18-year old can go into a gun store and buy as many 50 caliber sniper rifles as they want. I don’t know any 18-year olds that can afford even one!!!

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