Remember back in the 1980s when gun control groups screeched that Florida would turn into the “Gunshine” state when the Sunshine State passed concealed carry? Many no doubt won’t as they are too young. But we saw the same thing happen just last year as Florida adopted permitless carry. Instead of homicides going through the roof as the gun control lobby predicted, Ron DeSantis’ home turf has actually seen fewer homicides. A lot fewer.
In fact, with 29 states how practicing some version of Constitutional Carry (as in “I don’t need no stinkin’ permit!”) for law-abiding residents, the murder rate has fallen 19% in 2024. So much for blood in the streets.
Moreover, 24 states allow concealed carry within their state capitol complexes without issue, and 14 states allow for visitors in the galleries overlooking the legislative chambers to carry loaded long guns.
But the Mom types will never admit reality. Instead they appeal to fear and emotions.
For instance, Giffords’ Florida Senior Advisor Debbie Mucarsel-Powell offered this upon enactment of Constitutional Carry in Florida:
“This is a dark day for Florida. Our children and communities are going to be less safe because Governor DeSantis is in the pocket of the gun lobby. We know that permitless carry laws lead to an increase in gun violence. We will hold Governor DeSantis accountable for his egregious actions.”
Giffords’ Florida State Director Samantha Barrios wrote this:
“Floridians across the state are going to be less safe because of this bill. Law enforcement now won’t be able to identify a criminal from someone who has gone through a background check and training to carry a gun in public. Fistfights will now turn into gunfights. GIFFORDS Florida won’t be giving up and we will continue to fight for ‘un futuro sin violencia.’”
Amazingly, both womens’ words aged as poorly as year-old milk yet they remain proudly proclaimed on the Giffords website.
They weren’t alone. Over at Brady, their president Kris Brown wrote this:
“The Florida Senate’s decision to pass this reckless bill is a complete abdication of their duty to keep Floridians safe. This dangerous legislation will only make Florida, a state with a tragic history of mass shootings, even more unsafe. Permitless carry has been proven to increase gun violence, yet they chose to ignore the facts and put the lives of Floridians at risk.
“This is not what Floridians want or need. The majority of Floridians, including gun owners, support common-sense gun safety measures like background checks and permits to carry concealed firearms.”
Well, Kris, elections have consequences.
More of the usual suspects screeched that the sky was falling as Florida’s legislature advanced their permitless carry bill. From Everytown:
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. – The Florida chapters of Moms Demand Action and Students Demand Action, both part of Everytown for Gun Safety’s grassroots networks, released the following statements after the Florida Senate voted to pass permitless carry, sending the bill to Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’ desk for his signature. The vote comes just days after the mass shooting at the Covenant School in Nashville Tennessee, where three children and three adults were shot and killed. Recent polling shows that 77 percent of Floridians oppose permitless carry, which allows people to carry concealed, loaded handguns in public without a permit, criminal history check, or safety training.
So, because government couldn’t keep school kids safe from a mentally defective transgendered lunatic, we should somehow give up our right to self-defense outside the home? And trust the government to keep us safe?
“If Governor DeSantis and Republican legislators truly cared about public safety and protecting law enforcement, they’d be championing laws to keep guns out of dangerous hands — but instead, they’re choosing to flood Florida’s streets with concealed guns,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety. “These lawmakers just made it clear they serve the gun lobby, not the clear majority of Florida voters — including Republicans — who favor high standards for carrying a hidden gun.”
“Even for Florida lawmakers, this is a new low — rushing to score gun lobby points on the heels of another mass shooting, before parents have even had a chance to bury their murdered children,” said Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action. “Florida voters and public safety officials have made it clear that this dangerous policy has no place in their state, but state lawmakers have decided they know better. If Governor DeSantis cares about his constituents, he’ll veto this decision. If he doesn’t, gun safety advocates and survivors will be here every step of the way to hold him accountable for the violence he’s enabling.”
“We are still processing and grieving the mass shooting in Nashville, alongside a deadly start to the year here at home, and Senate Republicans have chosen to destroy one of Florida’s last remaining common-sense gun safety laws,” said Gay Valimont, a volunteer with the Florida chapter of Moms Demand Action. “We’ve seen what happens when the guard rails of public safety are undone. Putting more guns in more places with no questions asked will only lead to more senseless and preventable tragedies here in Florida. Governor DeSantis should veto this bill for the safety of our children and communities.”
“We’re living in a world where shots can ring out anywhere at any time, and instead of taking action to protect us, our lawmakers are choosing to put our lives and our futures at risk,” said Alexis Dorman, a volunteer with the Florida chapter of Students Demand Action.“We’ve learned to expect nothing less from our gun-lobby-backed politicians, but we’re not done showing up to demand more. Enough is enough — we will see you at the ballot box.”
Why you would think the end was nigh.
But wait… it didn’t quite work out as they predicted in their hyperbole-laced predictions.
The murder rate is down 19% in 2024 thus far, per data collected directly from 236 cities across the US.
(Some major cities — like San Francisco, Baltimore, and Philidelphia — have seen much larger decreases.) pic.twitter.com/VQCkd8ZAQj
— Steven Rattner (@SteveRattner) May 7, 2024
An armed society is a polite society. Unlike in gun control utopias like California, Florida’s good guys can carry guns and they shoot back.
These crime statistics are BS. Not all violent crime is being reported, because not all violent criminals are being arrested and tried. Why the latter?? Because most of the crime is committed by the usual suspects (i.e. blacks), whom TPTB no longer want to prosecute.
Do NOT trust any government statistics. It’s all lies for political consumption.
If .gov stats cannot be trusted, and I believe they cannot, where are you getting the info that it is the ‘usual suspects’?
What are your sources?
100+ years of various state/city data for a start. His comment being false would require a lot of data manipulation done by both parties across every municipality with a black population larger than statistical noise. Not the best way of presenting the concept but it is a vigorous known factor.
City data compiled by the blue cities? Red cities? Is chicago data more trustworthy than the fbi?
I keep seeing this ‘never trust the man’ meme from our side until it comes to just one subject.
Then suddenly the man is rock solid. Why is that?
All cities red or blue, predominant white black or Hispanic, northern or southern, eastern or western, 19th to 21st century. If anything the data manipulation is trying to downplay the black and for NY Hispanic/Arab/other MENA rates as much as possible. You can push against acknowledging this if you want but it would be contrarian at this point especially with many crimes not being recorded at all or going through all kinds of contortions to make it fit odd definitions to fall under white domestic terrorists (see some of the prior groups mentioned above to guess what makes up the majority of that in any relevant terms). If this reply seems a bit canned well it is. I have to explain it constantly to people who live in majority white bubbles who cannot envision the level of differences between groups that have been documented longer than anyone has been alive and often say many of the same things you do.
I do not live in a mostly white bubble. 40 years ago I did in WV. We still had crime to include rape and murder.
I currently live in the bay area. It probably doesn’t get more diverse than this.
I’m an old man now. You know who puts me on edge most when I’m on my daily walks? Entitled white teenagers.
Indian, Asian and in my experience, black kids treat their elders with respect. I’ve had black teens hold the store door open for me and call me ‘Sir’ when we got to the door at the same time. I’ve had white kids knock me aside and laugh while doing it.
Again. We are the group that distrusts all .gov. And the media.
Except for one subject. It is not a good look for us.
And how many murders did you see because I can guarantee you it was far less than any diverse area per capita if not by outright numbers. And yes you would be more on edge around white teenagers as they were the criminal class you knew for most of your life. How does the bay area violence and arrests tend to turn out compared to population?
So my personal life experience means nothing? I’m to trust only .gov stats?
Can’t do that.
Personal experience/bias should be balanced against observation and data. You look at people as individuals who are equal as you should. The problem is that particular view has been used against it’s users for decades. I wish you well and hope your neighbors and close associates that do not look like you are much like mine. Good individuals that want nothing to do with their larger group culture and fled to the safest whitest place they could afford. I deal with people as individuals as much as I can but ultimately I need to deal with them as groups for work in figuring out how best to assign resources and reduce criminal activity……then spend weeks trying to figure out how to present the data in a way it will not be ignored as being racist. In truth no one is right on this topic just has their hand on a different part of the elephant and trying to figure out what it is while blind.
There may be reason to doubt the crime data, especially from blue cities, but it doesn’t seem likely they would under report crimes committed by whites or Asians. That suggests, though doesn’t prove, that reported criminality somewhat accurately reflects actual criminality.
My own eyes and ears are my sources, along with historical trends. Government wants you to ignore what you see with your own eyes.
johnnyboy…In you and your ilk’s case historical trend is the stench of the democRat Party kkk and nazi third reich just to name a few…perhaps you and your ilk could venture into an inner city and demonstrate how many ways you have to say the n-word without saying the n-word? You and I know the answer so sit back you pos and enjoy the show…
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WYiUHW4ejkw&feature=shared
If you say they are violent or behave criminally they will inflict criminal violence upon you trope again? Deb this was a garbage argument the last dozen times you tried it. F for effort try again with a valid logical argument.
Flordia under Governor DeSantis is going after criminals which is of course something sourpuss Gun Control moms do not do. Instead the marching moms handcuff criminals to the Second Amendment and go after your Right of Self Defense, etc. And instead of telling sourpuss moms they wil not handcuff the 2A to what is criminal-misuse many of the so called defenders of the 2A try to reason with the marching moms. You cannot reason with anyone carrying around an agenda that History Confirms is Rooted in Racism and Genocide…Attempting to do so makes as much sense as attempting to reason with a mob carrying around Gun Control’s side kick the infamous mr. noose.
Fiction(nice word for lie), “Permitless carry has been proven to increase gun violence, yet they chose to ignore the facts and put the lives of Floridians at risk.”
Truth, Permitless carry has proven to decrease gun violence, yet the left choose to ignore the facts and put lives of Floridians at risk.
“An armed society is a polite society.”
Hush,
Depending on a specific definition, a lot more good people carrying handguns for righteous self-defense may indeed increase violent actions with firearms.
The key to a thorough and wise understanding is recognizing that civilian disarmament groups sub-consciously suggest that all “violence” is bad/wrong–and self-defense proponents sub-consciously suggest that “violence” is good/right when applied in righteous self-defense of innocent life.
So, a large increase in good people carrying handguns for righteous self-defense of innocent life likely will increase “violent” actions with firearms–which is good because defending innocent life is good.
Perhaps less obvious: many more good people carrying handguns for righteous self-defense of innocent life is “bad” if you worship government and recognize that empowered people decrease the necessity and hence power of government.
They don’t believe that all violence is wrong.
They believe that any violence against what they perceive as an oppressed group/class is wrong under any and all circumstances.
Violence against the oppressor(s) may be distasteful, or even outright illegal, but it’s understandable. Therefore it is neither as bad nor as frightening.
strych9,
To be a bit more accurate, “they” favor violence whenever it advances their goals, especially when their Almighty Government is dolling out the violence to their political enemies.
Favor… hrm… depends on what you mean/consider violence. The Commies really preferred people to go along quietly because it didn’t rile up others to potentially go after the “Blue Caps”.
They also generally preferred to avoid shooting people because people you shoot can’t be used as, essentially, slave labor.
If you look at what they actually did to the Kulaks they liquidated, they mostly just dropped them off alone in Siberia to starve. The packed them into river barges and transported them to the middle of absolute nowhere, kicked them off the vessel and then went home, leaving those people out there with nothing.
Sometimes you wonder if some of the truly atrocious behavior was simply disorganization mixed with desensitization to cruelty.
…especially when their Almighty Government is dolling out the violence to their political enemies.”
“Socially unacceptable [people]” is the term coined by the Soviets and it has long been a justification for anything because such people undermine all of society. Mao used similar phraseology.
The Western Left doesn’t use that specific term publicly as much as they used to but it’s still there, and the root idea is still present. They certainly go out of their way to create the idea that, for example, owning an AR is “socially unacceptable”.
RE: nocommonsense “Depending on a specific definition, a lot more good people carrying handguns for righteous self-defense may indeed increase violent actions with firearms.”
Uh the specific definition of good people engaged in the righteous use of self defense does not connect to your “increase violent actions.” Action Reaction. Violent criminals initiate and own Violence lock, stock and barrel. What possessed you to lay Violence on the doorsteps of a lot more good people carrying handguns for righteous self-defense…or better know as the legitimate use of deadly force?
n
Never mind millions throughout History who were imprisoned, enslaved, tortured and murdered with the serious help from an agenda called Gun Control…It’s today’s lame pissant stats catering to Gun Control that when compared to the atrocities that rode along with Gun Control do not equate to a gnat fart in a football stadium…Too many lose sight of History and that causes History to repeat itself.
o
p
“Violence” (e.g. violent action) is simply one person applying physical force to another. Whether the person applying physical force is an attacker or defender does not alter the definition.
Increased carry could increase justified violence if:
The number of criminal attacks did not decrease despite the increased risk of encountering an armed victim, or the small proportion of armed defenses involving actual shots fired increased for some reason.
I don’t see either happening. Criminals know downside risk is increasing, but defenders aren’t more likely to shoot retreating criminals.
Murder rate trends are an interesting animal:
— Murder rates were VERY low in the 1940s, 1950s, and into the early 1960s.
— Murder rates started to rise in the middle to late 1960s and peaked in the early 1990s.
— Murder rates steadily declined from the early 1990s through about 2020.
— Murder rates started increasing around 2020 and apparently peaked in 2022 or 2023.
— Murder rates are apparently once again going down in 2024.
So, the long term trend was low and steady, then increasing to a peak in the early 1990s, then a slow and steady decrease to 2020 where an increase occurred for three years, and finally the murder rate appears to be decreasing once again.
I am thinking that we can attribute this short duration increase in the murder rate between 2020 and 2023 (which interrupted the downward trend since the early 1990s) to the, “let’s start ignoring crime and defund the police,” movement that started in 2020.
That paired with mandatory masking and incentvised retail theft would be NY which is largely continuing despite the drop in numbers.
The right says you can’t trust the stats because they’re cooked.
The left says you can’t trust the stats because they’re cooked.
The right says arm up because there’s blood in the streets.
The left says there’s blood in the streets because you’ve armed up.
I carry because I want to carry. I would even if I was told I couldn’t. The “stats” such as they are don’t factor.
Make your own reality. Everybody else does.
uncommon_sense,
I see nothing uncommon about your comments.
I was in the House chamber in Baton Rouge the day the House approved SB 1 that gave CC to the good citizens of Louisiana and those opposing SB 1 expressed little if any common sense arguments.
I have been following CC in Louisiana since 2020 and every time there has been a vote not just for CC but any pro 2A legislation the votes have been strictly down party lines. The Senate is composed of 29 Republicans and 11 Democrats and without fail this year the vote relative to any 2A legislation has been 29 yeahs and 11 nays with the exception when 1 or more voted absent. In the House 1 Democrat member votes yeah consistently, but then 3-5 rinos vote nay.
Golly I carry legally in Indiana sans any license or permission from the king. Constitutional carry works pretty well as Indiana is better than ILLannoy by any measure. In ILL they had to be slapped down to grudgingly grant shall issue carry. And now they seek to disarm us. And NY wants to ban GLOCK©🙄
*NY wants to ban semiautomatic pistols and will throw every ounce of mud they can find against the legislative wall to see what they can have the judiciary miss in cleaning up years later. But I would imagine IL has similar undertones.
You’ll find that this general tactic is extremely common with “professional legislatures”.
IOW, they need to justify their existence as “professionals”.
Definitely a very nice story.
However; given the fact that over half the law enforcement agencies in the US no longer submit data to the FBU-UCR program, these statistics are at best very questionable.
It’s sounding like the former USSR where false data was fed into the state planning commission who would then try to allocate non-existent resources. Lies went up and down the system. No wonder it collapsed. Makes you wonder why the current vozhd (boss) wants to return to such a system.
dacian and miner, there’s the truth of your idealized order.
Everyone should have to get a permit and certified training to carry a gunm concealed or open but if you get caught without the permit or training certificate it shouldn’t be against the law.
The language used isn’t *wrong* per se because it basically can’t be. They’ve worded most of that in squishy enough terms, and expressly avoided placing a time frame on any of it, so that they can always claim that [bad things] simply haven’t happened yet. The apocalypse is always coming. And then anything that does happen, well, they told you so.
You can swap the nouns around in their statements and see this. Insert gas cans and people lighting themselves on fire or causing major fires and you’ve pretty much got some of the same claims made in the Obama era about gas cans with “unsafe” nozzles and vents. That is, when they weren’t blathering about the environment somehow being saved by spilling more gas via CARB compliant cans.
Vague language is extremely flexible, which is why PR people use it.
No different than the vast majority of claims about terrorism, DUI, crypto, drugs, Russia or any other boogeyman that statists want to throw out in the quest for power/your money.
They nearly always (mistakes are sometimes made, Comrade) target something that is 1. easy because it’s distasteful or seems minor to many, 2. easy to fearmonger worst-cases with, 3. a minor player in the overall scheme of things, 4. a gateway to further encroachments on freedom and 5. has at least one example with a heart-string tugging narrative.
As for the stats, are they actually trustworthy? There’s reason to believe they are not.
Also, other than Jacksonville, what does Ratner’s post/any stats from it have to do with Florida gun laws? Did Boston, Cleveland and San Francisco suddenly become more gun friendly? Adding this in at the end would seem to be throwing random and unrelated statistics at the argument.
Effectively became shall issue and handed out way more permits than typical but otherwise no to that last paragraph. Will review the rest when I have brains after work.
Where became effectively shall issue?
In theory everywhere but MA and NJ have had to give out a lot more resident and nonresident permits than I ever saw while NYC actually had to give out any that didn’t involve power and/or large sums of money in excess of their already high fees. Not to say any of the locations are enthusiastic quick or cheap about it but it’s no longer a LOL no.
Interesting.
Though I rather doubt it has much real-world effect. Mainly because I haven’t seen anyone screaming about all the CCW-committed/racist/whatever murders going on.
Agreed, at most there might be a small chilling effect on some criminals in sizing up victims. Realistically the drop in official numbers is likely a mix of underreporting mixed with a noticable number of the most prolific offenders eventually getting caught and removed from circulation (for now) to reduce the actual occurrence rate a bit (for states that still lock up criminals anyway).
I had a feeling this outcome is the result of better CCW and permitless carry laws.
Need a few more years, then see crime results in pro-self defense states compared to anti-self defense states.
Also need to compare red and blue states and their arrest records, no-cash bail laws.
Self-Defense Leads to No Charges for Juvenile in PA > Sheriff: Juvenile that shot, killed man in Lancaster County will not face charges > https://www.wbtv.com/2024/05/06/sheriff-juvenile-shot-killed-man-killed-lancaster-county-will-not-face-charges/
Robbers force people to unlock phones, banking apps at gunpoint in trendy Chicago neighborhood > https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/robbers-unlock-phones-banking-apps-gunpoint-bucktown-chicago/
Robbing gainfully employed people on their way to work of real sums instead of hitting up gas stations for $100 at 3AM?
They’re evolving.
Moms Demand Action.
Some do.
Some get……………some don’t!
I’ve never been so desperate so as to hit that. Looks like an angry lezbean that musta sat on a jizz covered toilet seat. Grrrr!
She looks like her grandson just showed her what tea bagging is in Halo.
A dark angry cloud follows those who embrace historical cherished gun rights.
The cloud is the red shirt hens and their ilk who attempt to destroy our nation, make us all less safe while they open their purses for billionaire Michael Bloomberg as he shakes loose change from his pockets.
These red-shirted hens cackle out the same tired identical talking points of blood, crime and fear but at the same time craftily shield themselves from facts and falsehoods and the resulting criticism.
There’s very few things I can think of that would be more embarrassing than being a brainless limp dick husband of a RED SHIRT HEN, forced to wear one of those idiotic shirts and support his hen.
And live in gated and guarded “communities”.
Demand the law abiding have permits or be disarmed but do nothing about those who commit the actual crimes. Typical of Dementiacrats and Marxists. Allow armed criminals to run free while not allowing those who are being victimized to defend themselves.
What is amusing, is the simple fact that at the height of the cow towns and rail heads of the so called wild west a person had a greater chance of being robbed, injured, or killed in NYC than in Dodge City.
The gun fight in the street or showdown at high noon was a Hollywood invention and happened only a handful of times in reality. Same thing today. most shootings are either criminals shooting other criminals or shootings as a result of another crime, IE a robbery etc.
But, but , but, it would have gone down even more if the antis had their way.
So, who is the woman in the picture? Seems quite unhappy.
🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰 CAN YOU DEFEND YOURSELF IF ATTACKED??? As Lord Acton pointed out in 1887, “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely” Hence you invite predation when you cede power. My research (I’m a Fellow of the American Academy for the Advancement of Science) confirmed that he was correct. Ask yourself – would YOU do something that hurts or endangers YOU??? When people can’t defend themselves, they invite attacks.
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