knife attack
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A recent video out of Tucson, Ari., shows us the right way to respond to a man threatening you with a sword. But, if you’ve never thought too much about how you’d respond to such a thing, it’s worth taking a few seconds to mentally run through that scenario, because misconceptions about blades and guns are all over the map in society.

But first, let’s look at the video:

Obviously, this guy isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, and his connection with reality wasn’t very solid. He decided to do some emotionally intense sword practice in a hotel parking lot, screaming and waving his sword around, probably not unlike the Star Wars Kid. When hotel management told him to stop, he ignored them. So, the sheriff’s department had to come out there to let him know that he couldn’t keep doing that.

When deputies arrived, he refused to put the sword away (which he had sheathed by then). Why? Because he was “trying to achieve greatness with the katana”. Then, of course, he had to ask the rhetorical question of whether katana practice is allowed in the United States. That’s an obvious “yes”, but it’s generally not tolerated in a parking lot. Instead of seeing that maybe he should have gone out to some forest or BLM land, he kept arguing the issue with deputies, telling them he’s “hella responsible”.

He then tried to explain that he’s related to a Greek god, and that if anyone wants to kill him, he’s going to be hard to kill. Then, he drew the sword and advanced on deputies with predictable results.

While the guy’s idiocy is pretty funny, you do have to feel bad for the guy because it ended up costing him his life. But, it doesn’t help you much if you find yourself explaining your empathy for the guy’s mental shortcomings if you’re doing that explaining at the pearly gates (or whatever you think you’d find after getting killed).

The fact is, a sword or even a knife can be more deadly than getting shot by a gun. Worse, it takes 1-2 seconds to draw a pistol from its holster and fire it (the above video is a fancy version of the Tueller Drill), allowing a person with a blade to inflict a fatal injury on you before you can draw. So, the police were right both to back away and increase the distance, draw and fire on him as soon as he advanced on them. There’s just no spare time to “shoot it out of his hand” or “shoot him in the leg” (things idiots think police should do in such situations).

So, if you ever see someone acting crazy with a knife or a sword, don’t get too close. In fact, leave if you’re not being paid to deal with the guy. Such a confrontation can cost you everything. But, if you have to deal with such a person, don’t assume that you’re invincible because you have a gun, because the distance you can shoot from can disappear quick when someone’s running toward you.

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84 COMMENTS

  1. “In fact, leave if you’re not being paid to deal with the guy.”

    Sorry, if they’re threatening someone else with imminent bodily harm or death, I couldn’t look myself in the mirror for the rest of my life if I just left because I wasn’t being paid, even though I had the means and willingness to stop the threat. Maybe that’s just me, though.

    • Varies by location (laws) and people involved. Here in NY there are several places I will not get involved unless absolutely necessary.

      • This guy obviously never saw Raiders of the List Ark.

        Hopefully, he achieved katana, but this probably counts as a fail.

    • I used to have the same mindset.
      After getting involved with a few my attitude changed.
      Assualt and Battery is still Assualt and Battery unless your wearing a badge.

    • Rizzo, there was a Philadelphia Inquirer political cartoon in the late 70s where a little girl asked a Philadelphia policeman to get her cat out of a tree.

      The cop said “Sure!”, and drew and fired, and the now freshly-dead cat fell out of the tree.

      “There you go, kid!” the cop said… 😉

    • Frank, I understand. But there is a good book out there titled ‘The Law of Self Defense’. It is written by a lawyer that teaches other lawyers how to handle self defense cases, and Massad Ayoob, who is the foremost authority on the use of self defense. He says it is best to stay out of those situations. He recommends you get your family and yourself to safety. That is difficult to swallow, but it is recommended.

  2. A coconut with a knife could walk through a thick crowd casually gut stabbing people and go unnoticed for quite some time. A gun usually announces the start of hostilities.

    • A human could put knives on a coconut and role it through a crowd real fast and maybe people would just think he was bowling.

      • “A human could put knives on a coconut…”

        Or the lime in the coconut, and drink it all up… 🙂

  3. I EDC the glock survival knife. Same size as the glock bayonet. It’s great for hacking weeds as I walk my dog.

    And I do get some stares from strangers. The Cops don’t seem to care. But where I live most men EDC a large knife. But not as big as mine.
    big(smile)

        • Having a P89 myself I never found the need for a bayonet on a tank. Besides it really makes CC complicated.

        • Sadly the P89 doesn’t have an under barrel pic rail or I’d suggest this unit
          https://www.apgdefense.com/products
          It only needs three slots to attach.
          I have two of them, one on a 12 gauge and one one my Savage MSR-10.
          Fits both my M7 and OKC 3S bayonets.
          My other shotgun, a Mossberg 500 has a now sadly unavailable NoDak Spud bayonet adapter that fits on the end of the mag tube.

  4. It’s always amazed me just how many on TTAG dismissed the bayonet. And agree with the government.

    The importation of long guns with a bayonet lug is banned by the 1968 gun control act.

    • Bayonets don’t need to be mounted to be deadly. Back in the old days (WWI and previously) many bayonets had 16 inch blades or triangular spikes. Not something I’d care to get gut stuck with.

      • Back in the day they were essentially short versions of swords.
        And yes bayonets are extremely deadly. Also they are an outstanding psychological weapon.

      • “…many bayonets had 16 inch blades or triangular spikes.”

        The Chinese SKS came with a cruciform ‘spike’ bayonet…

    • My Bushmaster XM-15 e2c came with a bayonet lug (U.S. manufacture) . There is no Federal law banning the attachment of a bayonet to a firearm. Some dystopian states due have bans on firearms that include a bayonet lug, because they fall under the category of assault weapons.

      • Has there ever been any criminal use of bayonets with the exception of them being used as a knife?

        • to southern cross

          To my knowledge a fixed bayonet has never been used in a crime. But the gun grabbers certainly do fantasize, about knife bayonets and chainsaw bayonets.

    • I don’t think this is technically true.

      Lugs could be part of the “sporting purposes test” (SPT) but they were not the only determining factor. .gov didn’t use this test on anything other than handguns prior to 1984 (see below).

      The 1968 GCA imposed a blanket ban on “surplus military rifles”, regardless of if they had a lug or not. That was changed in 1986 at which point the ATF starting applying the SPT to everything using the criteria it developed in 1984 in regards to the introduction of the Striker shotgun. Previously they’d only looked at developing rules for handguns. At this point you started getting lug-included Mosins from Finland.

      From 1986-1993 things like SKSs, Mausers and Mosin Nagants could be imported freely until Clinton banned certain things, mostly targeting China. You also got the AWB in 1994. Both bans then expired under Bush but none of them touched bolt-guns or the SKS provided the guns didn’t originate in China.

      This is why the early 1990’s and the 2000’s saw so many Mosin Nagants for cheap along with reasonably plentiful SKS supplies. They came with lugs and, often, with bayonets.

      Mosins were imported, entirely as they were made, from 1986 onward. By 2000 even Russia was sending them by the crate-load.

      To quote the Department of Treasury, writing the history of this in 1998:

      …Other than surplus military firearms, which Congress addressed separately, the
      rifles and shotguns being imported prior to 1968 were generally conventional rifles and
      shotguns specifically intended for sporting purposes. Therefore, in 1968, there was no
      cause to develop criteria for evaluating the sporting purposes of rifles and shotguns.

      1984 Application of the Sporting Purposes Test

      The first time that ATF undertook a meaningful analysis of rifles or shotguns under the
      sporting purposes test was in 1984. At that time, ATF was faced with a new breed of
      imported shotgun, and it became clear that the historical assumption that all shotguns were
      sporting was no longer viable. Specifically, ATF was asked to determine whether the
      Striker-12 shotgun was suitable for sporting purposes…

      …On May 19, 1986, Congress passed the Firearms Owners Protection Act,19 which
      amended section 925(d)(3) to provide that the Secretary “shall” (instead of “may”)
      authorize the importation of a firearm that is of a type that is generally recognized as
      particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes…

      …In 1989, after five children were killed in a California schoolyard by a gunman with a
      semiautomatic copy of an AK47, ATF decided to reexamine whether certain
      semiautomatic assault-type rifles met the sporting purposes test. This decision was
      reached after consultation with the Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy.
      In March and April 1989, ATF announced that it was suspending the importation of
      certain “assault-type rifles.” For the purposes of this suspension, assault-type rifles were
      those rifles that generally met the following criteria: (1) military appearance; (2) large
      magazine capacity; and (3) semiautomatic version of a machinegun. An ATF working
      group was established to reevaluate the importability of these assault-type rifles…

      Following the 1989 study, ATF took the position that a semiautomatic rifle with any of the eight military configuration features identified in the 1989 report, other than the
      ability to accept a detachable magazine, failed the sporting purposes test and, therefore,
      was not importable.

      https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/guide/department-treasury-study-sporting-suitability-modified-semiautomatic/download

      If the whole thing was about “lugs” then we wouldn’t have non-sporterized Mosins and Mausers, which we have by the train load.

  5. Very nice, it seems civil discourse is considered taboo here. 2nd Amendment is great, but the 1st? Not so much. I get that this isn’t a public forum, but I mean, it kind of is. Comment was removed simply stating how I wouldn’t simply leave if someone was threatening another’s safety.

    I too prefer echo chambers in lieu of even the smallest of dissenting viewpoints, no matter how trivial. /s

    To whomever is moderating: hypocrisy is not a good look on anyone.

    • Sometimes stuff just disappears on many of us, even the most regular of regulars, and no one knows why. The suspicion is that it is a filter doing the dirty work, untouched by human hands. And sometimes stuff shows up again ling after it was posted. Very bizarre. And yet the media insists that AI will be our savior….

      • Happened many times to me. I certainly don’t have the loyalty to this new editorial bunch as the previous one & had more when Farago ran it…

      • I’ve had posts that just straight up disappeared into the ether. As though they never happened or existed.

        And none had any politics or profanity. I find the former is much more likely to result in moderation to disappearing.

      • No, it’s the Elf Bee Eyes hacking our sht man.
        You’ll go maybe a couple months and then they have to Update.
        Same reason the balloons fly over, updating the camera data on all the Red Dot sights.
        My cell phone is safe though because I downloaded the Anti-Spyware app off Google Play Store.
        Trust them, it works.

    • Hey Frank, I don’t see anything pending in moderation. Try to re-post, if it gets stuck again I’ll make sure it’s approved.

    • I think your comment was taken “out of jail” … I’m guessing it’s the one at the TOP right now Friday, Apr 19 at 1943 central time.

  6. Since the article didn’t mention it…………

    23-year-old Devon Lewis, was pronounced dead at the scene.

  7. Ranged weapons have a significant strategic advantage.

    Available only if you maintain your range advantage as these deputies did.

  8. Katana Boy achieved greatness and immortality via the sword and internet.

    On the other hand, stupid is as stupid does.

  11. I’ve said it before. I’m more afraid of edged weapons than firearms. Well, handguns anyway. I knife can inflict terrible wounds. I would have shot that guy quickly and often. The only difference is I wouldn’t have had to draw. It would have been from the low ready.

  13. The sharp edge is mankind’s 3rd oldest weapon behind the beater (rocks and clubs) and the poker (sharpened pointy stick) and was the primary weapon on the battlefield for millennia. Don’t underestimate weapons with that kind of staying power.

  16. “So, if you ever see someone acting crazy with a knife or a sword, don’t get too close.
    …
    But, if you have to deal with such a person, don’t assume that you’re invincible because you have a gun, because the distance you can shoot from can disappear quick when someone’s running toward you.    ”

    Pro Tip:
    A text-book perfect heart shot from a handgun can easily take more than 10 seconds to physically incapacitate a determined attacker. Now imagine how far away an attacker with a knife could be and still manage to close that distance and inflict a fatal stab wound in 10 seconds.

    In case your brain isn’t “firing on all cylinders” (a gasoline engine reference by the way), I will spell out the implication of my Pro-Tip above: an attacker could be 50 feet away when you shoot him/her in the heart, easily close that distance, and inflict a fatal stab/slash wound upon you before passing out from low-blood pressure within that 10 second window of time.

    • someone needs to change this video to be more applicable to this pro tip. i mean red jacket guy was just full of quit in him and dropped after two shots. he traveled vertically more than horizontaly after the last shot. how embarrassing for red jacket guy not running around for another 49 1/2 feet.

      • Toni McBride (female cop from CA) dropped that knife-wielding crackhead with a double tap. I know there are some examples of people being shot, and continuing to attack, and even kill.

      • M kennedy,

        Pro Tip #2:
        You can sneer at people when they say something that you think is incorrect or you can educate yourself and verify whether or not someone’s claims are true.

        Since you appear to be unwilling or unable to verify my claim, I will spell it out for you. There are three ways to stop an attacker with a handgun:
        1) Damage attacker’s brain or spine enough to shut down.
        2) Cause enough bleeding for low blood pressure to shut down.
        3) Fear of wounds motivates attacker to stop.

        Only brain/spine shots and low blood pressure physically incapacitate an attacker. And while brain/spine shots normally incapacitate an attacker instantly, shots which cause bleeding take at least 10 seconds (and sometimes minutes) to lower blood pressure enough where an attacker passes out. Thus, gunshot wounds which cause a determined attacker to bleed are not “guaranteed” to incapacitate the attacker for at least 10 seconds. Hence my comment above.

        Do attackers often drop after one or two gunshot wounds? Of course. And often that is because the attacker is afraid of their existing or additional gunshot wounds ending their life so he/she stops their attack. Other times, attackers are more determined and continue their attack until their gunshot wounds cause enough blood loss to render them unconscious. THAT process can take a relatively long time as I noted above. Plan accordingly.

    • Sometimes they immediately fall, and sometimes they don’t. Mr. Katana dropped even though he was obviously on drugs. Did they confirm that? He had to be on some serious drugs. He was making sound effects as he charged the cop.

    • And it wasn’t this one. I found his lack of faith disturbing.

      I’m old enough to get the reference.

    • I think the TV show ran for years after the movie, around a decade.

      Used to be on in the 90’s certain nights of the week in a block of shows that also contained Walker, Texas Ranger, Renegade and Knight Rider.

      On TNT maybe? Dunno, I was a little kid and didn’t really watch that much TV. I also don’t know how I remember that Renegade was a show. I haven’t thought about that in a coon’s age.

      • H & I (Heroes & Icons) network runs the “Highlander” tv show now somewhere around 12am-1am Eastern time right after (Star Trek) “Enterprise”

        • Interesting.

          I haven’t had a TV for years so I didn’t even know there was such a thing as “H & I”.

  19. The smart cop would have asked the guy if he knew the Greek Sleekeum sword sluce slicer slice, and then ask for the sword to demonstrate how to do it.

  20. with a fixed barrel exposed like a rifle two automotive hose clamps and something sharp serves an emergency need.

  21. If you guys never saw it this guy just got convicted in Wisconsin for fatally stabbing a teenager. Watch how quick this turns from a shoving match into a fatal stabbing.

    LOTS of things not to do here for everyone. Him messing with a person that gets a mob after him, the guy who incited a mob saying he was photographing girls who later says he didn’t see any of that, and so on. Any and all of them would have been wise to break this off, yet no one did.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4

    • I’ve heard about this case tangentially and it’s not one I really understand very well at all.

      That said, homie at the end can hit some high notes, and that is real.

      • I couldn’t tell what happened. All i saw was blood in the water and some jackleg screaming. Dont know the story but maybe they shouldn’t have thrown him in the water and punched him. If dude had a knife you know thats the only reason he was hanging around. Pro tip If somebody is outnumbered 10 to 1 and still doesnt leave, its probably a safe bet they have a trick up their sleeve.

    • Some of the jurors did interviews. One said he was guilty because he didn’t leave when the mob was forming against him. Another said he was very emotional about the gruesome photos. Who supplied the drugs and alcohol for the 17 year-olds? I bet nothing happened to them. Did they investigate the parents for not stopping this behavior?

      I’m sorry for the loss of life, but this didn’t have to happen. Why didn’t the kids try to help him find the lost phone? Would that have been so difficult? They chose to harass him instead. They thought it was funny until it wasn’t.

      • “I’m sorry for the loss of life, but this didn’t have to happen.”

        You’re too nice. Generational warfare is all fun and games until someone gets stabbed up.

        Then it’s fucking hilarious.

        Wait until people really start to go nuts if something breaks badly. It’ll be like a night at the Laugh Factory with history’s best comics all in one show.

    • LOL…. cheerleaders gotz you bettered.
      I do this kinda sht when I’m drunk, I come to reality when I fall on my face and eat dirt.
      Think that stops me?
      Hell No

      • His “graceful” and “cat-like” moves really impress me. Somehow I don’t think pre-“training” stretching will help.

  24. “I’m related to Dionysus”.

    I’d have started backing away right there. I already suspected serious mental illness based on behavior and dude just confirmed it as far as I’m concerned (unless he happens to know my dog… and be a canid himself in which case I’m probably the one who needs a mental health hold).

    Anyone who’s going to tell you that in a serious manner is about 95% sure to believe that they’re one of the satyrs. Satyrs, contrary to what most people seem to believe thanks to sanitized stories, are not just “mischievous”. One of the key aspects of this creature is that they party hardy until they get to a point of ecstasy, at which point they like to tear/cut people apart as a portion of their celebration. Dismemberment is kinda their thing. It’s also a weird sex thing too. (Oh, you think modern society is weird? The ancient Greeks would straight up freak you out.)

    Any crazy person who’s latched on to this idea and is carrying a blade isn’t someone I want to be anywhere near.

    OTOH, I’d trade this type of edged weapon encounter for the ones I’ve actually had. They actually had the time to draw and shoot.

    • Like I said, I’d have ask the guy if he knew the Greek Sleekium sword sluce slicer slice. Then ask for his sword to demonstrate.
      50/50 Chance I’d have wound up holding his sword.

      • Probably true, actually.

        Possum Mind Tricks, better than those loser Jedi.

        Plus, as the cop you get the opportunity for at least a 10% chance that you get to make an epic radio call. “Sword unsheathed! Sword unsheathed! Suspect down! Request Knights Hospitallers! Send archers to my location!”.

  25. “There’s just no spare time to “shoot it out of his hand” or “shoot him in the leg” ”

    Wouldn’t those results be the likely average from multiple cops shooting simultaneously at the same target?

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