Allegiance Ammo makes unique .223 and 9mm projectiles, including 110 grain subsonic .223 that’s said to cycle standard AR-15/M-16 actions without modification. Apparently not content with “good enough,” they’re now working on barrels designed specifically for subsonic .223. Allegiance’s press release follows:
Allegiance SilentStrike The Ultimate Authority on Subsonic Ammunition
Looking for the Ultimate subsonic package? Coming soon the Allegiance subsonic barrel designed for subsonic and supersonic ammunition.
Testing will begin on our 1×3 7.5 inch and 1×5 twist 10 inch barrels. We have designed our barrels around the subsonic 110gr projectile. No more chambers that won’t close or bullet YAW or wrong gas port size.
Finally a barrel setup for subsonic ammunition.
Check out our website www.allegianceammo.com and look at the performance videos of our PowerStrike, SilentStrike, OneStrike and the incredible TechStrike
Sincerely,
Jeff Mullins
Allegiance Inc
I had no idea that subsonic .223 existed in the first place. Why the fuck would you want this, wouldn’t a 9mm PCC firing 147gn be better?
Don’t knock it until you try it. Same argument people give for ‘just use a .22’. but you don’t get the same results downrange.
If you’ve shot sub-sonic .223 (without even a suppressor) you know that your first trigger pull will leave you feeling like you just shot a squib round and you need to check your barrel for a projectile. But your spotter will comment about how much dirt your round threw up on the berm (after passing through your target).
Sub-sonic .223 is probably the most pleasant way you can shoot a .223 (albeit, the results are not the same as super-sonic ammo), and it is IMO one of the easiest and nicest ways of introducing anyone to shooting a .223 semi or bolt action rifle or pistol.
Again, IMO, much of your range (especially indoor) ammo should be subs, your home defense should be subs.
I have not tried their barrels but I have purchased Allegiance’s projectiles for reloading and they make good bullets.
If I’m going to be throwing subsonic lead for home defense, then I’m going to throw a heluva lot more than 110 grains of it!
I understand the value of subsonic, but we shouldn’t forget the terminal ballistics you get from 3,000 feet per second. It takes a lot of mass to make up for that.
Not at under 40′, plus, what are you going to do for aiming your second round? You’ll likely be temporarily blinded and with some permanent hearing damage.
Pretend you have a nice, typical AR in .223 with a good suppressor, too. You’ve seen 300 BLK ARs clanging steel on YouTube with almost complete silence and you’d like to try it, but you don’t want a brand new caliber to reload for.
This barrel on a decent upper would get you there pretty easily.
“This barrel on a decent upper would get you there pretty easily.”
maybe. I wasn’t swearing to Allegiance’s claims, I was just giving a shout-out for subsonic ammo (even in .223) and that Allegiance makes good projectiles. They are a concerted and consummate lot, from my dealings with them, though. I would try one of their barrels (I do like a short-stroke piston type AR better than impinged, however).
Sub-sonic ammo cycling an AR is a hoot, and, if I had the shekels I would buy you all one.
I am torn between .338 Spectre and .458 SOCOM for suppressed subsonic fire. .223 would never be the first choice for that. With slower rounds your only damage is that of the stuff crushed directly in the bullets path.
Those are YUUUUGE rounds, comparatively, and you will likely give up shooting for how much it will cost you to feed a rifle that’ll fire either of those. Plus, you’d lose all of the low-end functionality of ‘plinking’ or most target shooting. Those rounds are not your daily driver, and the SOCOM is one you’d likely not want to shoot a lot of fully-loaded rounds on a day to day basis either.
Sorry, my response was weighted more towards the .458, the Spectre looks like a great round, but (for both) you’ll be moving further away from your basic AR set up with both rounds than you would for sub .223. Even further than with the 300 BLK or the WT due to bolt requirements and buffer/spring set ups.
I agree. .338 Spectre is also a PITA unless you like hand loading and tweaking your rifle, expensive magazines, and ammo over several range sessions to get a reliable weapon. I am tinkerer so that was fine with me. Subsonic and suppressed, the 300gr .338 rounds are mild enough that I didn’t need a recoil pad. (I put one on for the supersonic unsuppressed ones though). Only boutique ammo expands much at any velocity a .338 Spectre can achieve. I suspect .458 is easier to get working right but the 500gr subsonic bullets have 2/5ths more recoil and are very expensive as well.
PS: Maker 300gr copper subsonic bullets have 3 petals that expand to over an inch across them.
You’re paying a lot more than standard .223 cost for these bullets as well, given that they’re heavier (more material) and only available through one manufacturer.
Frankly, I’d still go .300BLK just for factory ammo availability from Walmart or Academy in a pinch. If 458 socom or 338 Spectre took off, those would probably be preferable, since the velocity of all subsonic rounds will be the same (imagine that!), but for the time being they’re a hassle.
458SOCOM all the way. I have ARs in 458SOCOM, 338Spectre, and 300BLK. I’ve tried the 300 a couple of times as a dedicated night time hunting round, and I’ve just been repeatedly disappointed with its performance. The pigs will die, but not right then, they run off away to die at a later date. The 338Spectre is certainly better, but none of them perform like the SOCOM. 100 yard subsonic pass throughs from any angle, even on the big pigs. Up front it will pass through both shoulders, breaking them and pinning the pig to the ground. I’ve had shots to their tail come out their chest or their neck.
Everything else is 80 proof.
Yes, the .458 will do it, It would likely do it if the pig was driving a Silverado, in a set of Dickies canvas coveralls. But that’s a long way to go to drop a pig at short-sh distances.
Have you tried a 300 BLK with a 208 gr Hornady A-Max projectile @ 2400’/s (compression load)?
7.62 x 40 WT will hit pretty good, opposite shoulder strike should take the pig fight out of him real quick and you have a faster follow on shot on the piglets.
Did the tail shot have an entry wound? If not, the pig probably just stabbed itself to death after the .458 buckwheating.
Seriously, how bad was the cleaning/skinning after that? : )
Which subsonic bullets do you use for the .458 & .338?
“Have you tried a 300 BLK with a 208 gr Hornady A-Max projectile @ 2400’/s (compression load)?”
That must be a misprint, as a 208 grain round will be moving much slower than that from a 300BLK.
Supersonic, I like the 300BLK, just not subsonic, at least not when compared to the 458SOCOM.
When the pigs are running away, I like to aim for their tail. I’ll either get an instant drop from the strike to the spine, or it will travel all the way through them and out their chest. Either way, there is rarely too much searching for the pig.
How about .458 socom vs .50 Beowulf?
I know it’s kinda an unfair comparison since the .50 is still proprietary but I have a friend with one and it’s so much fun.
Joe R. – is the term ‘buckwheating’ from somewhere other than “Things to do in Denver when you’re Dead”?
ActionPhysicalMan, for subs on the 338spectre I use a 300gr SMK, just because they work and I have them for my 338 winmag.
For subs on the 458 socom Im very happy with the Hornady 500gr DGX round, just bores straight tunnels through anything.
Snatchums, balistically so close as to make any differences academic.
Sorry JWT, whooooh yes, 1400 fps ! (14.3 gr. of Accurate 1680). Lot less, but plenty.
I wouldn’t expect an SMK to be very terminally effective. I only use similar target rounds (Nosler 300gr Custom Comps which are cheaper than SMKs) for practice. Although such rounds do tumble in gel fairly reliably and consistently due to the air pocket in the nose, I’d rather rely on expansion to enlarge the wound channel.
Actionphysicalman,
Any subsonic round is little more than a long range punch press. Although expansion would be very appreciated, I find that you can only count on expansion and penetration from a subsonic round if the target is fairly close, under 50 yards. Beyond that, you are going to get one or the other, and expansion without penetration is just a slap.
So between the two, I’ll take penetration every time. If I’m only cutting a 1/3 of an inch tunnel through something, I have to do my part and make sure it’s tunneling through something important. The heavier the round, the more likely I can ensure that, as it is less likely to be moved off target by heavy bones or muscle.
“Sorry JWT, whooooh yes, 1400 fps ! (14.3 gr. of Accurate 1680). Lot less, but plenty.”
Thanks. No, I have not tried that round. 1,400 is still supersonic, so I’ll likely go a bit slower than that, or up the grains a bit and slow it down as well, if my goal is quiet shooting.
Why not .300 black/whisp? Its more common, less expensive and less ‘exotic’ than the others. I mean, unless you’re going for the exotic thing that nobody else has. (serious question)
Isnt this the reason they made 300BLK ? I dont understand why anbody would want this.
Some folks wonder why anyone would want the 300BLK. Just sayin’
Especially if you already have an AR-15 it is the easiest and cheapest way to get a short barreled rifle that is fairly good for subsonic shooting and fairly good at supersonic shooting with out needing a variable gas system of some sort. It is not the best at anything except meeting that requirement. It seems to me that it is an adequate and flexible short to medium range fighting (not hunting) cartridge.
“It seems to me that it is an adequate and flexible short to medium range fighting (not hunting) cartridge.”
This. Wisdom.
The 300 BLK is a great round, and the heavier projectiled sub-sonic rounds are really great to shoot and you can drop a gaggle of hogs with it without running off the herd.
7.62 x 40 WT makes for a nice sub-sonic type round as well.
If you’ve ever shot a 300 BLK, (I believe) you’d say that you miss the round count of a .223, but you wouldn’t have to go back.
Round count? It’s the same parent case. Same round count.
Sorry, mixing metaphors (didn’t complete the thought). Per/$ ?. Same # of rounds different # of $ to fill it? You will (likely wind up shooting less) miss shooting as much as you did with your .223.
Even if you reload, or buy bulk, you’ll (likely) wind up shooting less (of them). 30 cal projectiles are double or nearly, so your range day will (likely) end sooner. It’s not the same as throwing 150 round brick of American Eagles down range and the price of .223 starts looking like .22 LR once you navigate to certain other calibers. .458 SOCOM will comparatively eat your lunch $$$, and you will ‘miss the round count’ of your .223.
Now you can convert your AR-15 to .22LR without dealing with that pesky unreliable rimfire ignition. Oh, and you can pay more for ammunition.
Pass.
110 grains is a dang heavy .22 LR, but yeah I agree with you. I’m not sure I get the point. And it’s $48 for $20 rounds or $40 each if you buy 3+ boxes…so…not cheap. And by “not cheap” you’re pretty much talking the most expensive .223 on the commercial market, eh?
They are pricey, but they are a lot of fun to shoot, and they can be handy, with or without a suppressor. Do you want to carry two rifles afield for separate jobs or do you want to just carry one rifle and grab a different arrow out of your quiver? I think if you tried them (especially if they cycle your semi-auto AR [I don’t think they will on every rifle]) you’d (resources permitting) keep a box on your shelf and one in your range bag and hunting gear.
When I pig hunt, which is mostly at night, I like to have a really quiet 22 with me for the raccoons and skunks. I tried to just use a subsonic 556, so that I could hunt with one rifle. Didn’t work, the POI was so radically different that anything past 50 yards was just a guess. So I went back to one rifle for the large animals and another for the varmints.
WAT ? You? I bet you don’t even use sights, even at night, you probably filed them off of your snake gun. ; ) : ) : )
You could use a 45 offset to a smaller cheap holographic sight. : )
I use an ANPVS14 with an AN/PEQ15 or an M646 Raptor to see and shoot in the dark.
You running an eradication program? Cause, if not, that’s some expensive porkchops. : )
One could do it with:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vector-Optics-Viperwolf-Tactical-Green-Laser-Ir-Nv-Laser-Combo-Sight-/262761566044
And a
https://www.amazon.com/Firefield-FF24125-Spartan-Vision-Monocular/dp/B00XGI1MOQ
“You running an eradication program?”
Yes. It’s at least 100 pigs a year, sometimes multiples of that.
Crazy how they’re still gaining in population, and coverage. I think everyone’s going to be a pig-hunter someday. Whether they like it or not. I liked Liberte’s balloon hunt post, I always thought it would be cool to set up a large comfortable “fire ranger” tower (30 – 40 feet) over some broken scrub and porch shoot some baited pigs in cardinal quadrants off of the tower. It’d be like fishing.
Do you process 100 animals a year?
The videos do not show up on the site.
I just got to shoot a Beck Defense Ar with subsonic 223 suppressed and a happy switch this weekend at Triggercon range day and it was fantastic and have plans to get the upper which you can also run standard ammo in unlike the one in this article if I’m not mistaken . Also got to run a 458 which was nice but the Beck Defense 510 Beck with a 680gr subsonic was something else .
I’ve shot those Beck guns myself (video of the subsonic: https://www.instagram.com/p/99dO0nPzk2/). Good stuff. But there’s no reason these Allegiance ones wouldn’t also work with normal ammo, and the text of their press release makes that pretty clear: “Coming soon the Allegiance subsonic barrel designed for subsonic and supersonic ammunition.”
One thing I did notice is that Allegiance claims their subsonic ammo runs a totally standard AR-15. These barrels obviously have tight twist rates for the heavier, slower bullets and, from the sounds of it, perhaps a longer throat to clear larger projectiles and maybe a modified gas port (although it doesn’t look vastly oversized in the photos and, if the ammo really cycles a standard AR, it wouldn’t have to be oversized). But the entire gas system on that Beck gun was highly modified so it would cycle the subsonic ammo. I think it would be grossly overgassed with normal ammo, probably beating itself up a bit. Not sure on specs or what they changed, but I do know they had modified it well out of normal specs.
I will watch for these guys on the ‘companies going out of business’ threads on the gun boards… shouldn’t be long.
$2.40 per round? lol… I can buy a 300 barrel, and a .22 conversion kit, and still have money left over after converting to 300….even without reloading.
5.56/.223 was explicitly designed to be effective at 2500+ FPS. If you want a gun that works well with sub sonic ammo, just buy a caliber that was actually designed to be sub-sonic for it instead of some Frankenstein crap.
“No more chambers that won’t close or bullet YAW or wrong gas port size.”
This sounds mutually exclusive to
“Allegiance Ammo makes unique .223 and 9mm projectiles, including 110 grain subsonic .223 that’s said to cycle standard AR-15/M-16 actions without modification.”
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