New From CMMG: MkG45 GUARD

1. It operates completely different from a rotating bolt by operating exactly like a rotating bolt. Way to reinvent the wheel, guys. Also, another PCC? Oh gosh… hard pass.

   • It’s a delayed blowback with rotating bolt. Most pistol caliber ARs have a straight blow back and the bolt carrier is one piece. This CMMG has a two piece carrier and bolt similar to an AR. Seems kind of cool to me.

   • Well in an AR it’s the carrier being pushed back that causes the bolt to rotate and eventually unlock. It sounds like, in this design, it’s force directly on the bolt that causes it to rotate and unlock and the carrier isn’t part of the equation. From the description, I don’t think their “similar but operates differently” assertion is a stretch.

     • Yep it seems the difference is there is no gas key and pressure through that to push back the carrier rotating the bolt. In this case like you said the cartridge pressure acts directly on the bolt forcing it to rotate. Which is the delay they speak of.

       • I wonder if the lugs on the bolt and the barrel extension are angled to allow the bolt to be pushed open by the case pushing on it, or if they’ve put some sort of bearings in there, or it’s more complicated with some type of gas piston system that rotates the bolt, etc etc. Apparently the mass of the bolt makes a difference, as the press release states that bolt weight kits can be used to fine-tune it for +P ammo or suppressed shooting. Interesting.

       • So, a delayed blow-back rotating bolt. Still a rotating bolt. Forgive me for being skeptical, but I’m not seeing the innovation that warrants that much money.

     • I agree, I’ll wait for a diagram but I think it seems more likely to be similar to say the Savage 1907.

2. I kind of (KIND OF) want a .45 PCC. I think a MSR chambered in .357 mag would be pretty neat.

   But for $1400? Are you serious?

   • Right¿!
     I don’t understand the engineering differences that keep the PCCs from being so expensive.
     The only thing I can figure is that this niche is entirely market driven (‘duh¡).
     I would love an AR based PCC; but my .40 Sub2000 is a third the cost, dead nuts accurate, very reliable, and most importantly FUN to shoot. Brings a grin to all (male/female/young/old) that take it for a spin.
     The only carbine that “out grins” it is my Rossi 92 in .357.
     True fun for one and all.

   • At one point there was someone wildcatting .357 Rimless Magnum. I really wanted a go at that! I think it would be amazingly fun to mess around with. I made a dummy round and it’s just sitting here :/

3. 1300 bucks for a 45 acp pistol?

   Let me know when its sub-1k.

4. this reeks of desperation

5. If I was going to get a PCC I’d do the CZ Scorpion EVO. And it’s $1,000.
   I think a .357 Sig would be cool or even in 7.62×25 Tokarev would be sweet that’s a hot pistol caliber with a carbine length barrel. It’s got some velocity behind it.

   • I’d buy that for a dollar!

     +1 for 7.62×25 Tokarev out of a PCC….. especially with those 85gr. Prvi Partizan JHPs that work quite well on kudzu pigs out of a standard TT33.

     If I was a lot better at machining, I’d work up one of those carbine conversions for a Tokarev, like I see for GLOCKs. And just for giggles, I’d make it look like a Kel-Tec; everyone would want one, but never be able to find one.

6. CA legal? JK.

7. Wow! Takes standard Glock 21 mags!
   Know what else takes standard Glock 21 mags?
   Glock 21!

   • Or a Vector, JRC, Thureon, Lone Wolf, TNW…

     • And how many of these have the hold open implemented?

8. For that money you can get a real AR or a proper pistol.

   • Shit. You could get TWO good ARs for that price, or like 4 glock 21s. Or one good AR and two glocks.

9. Curious to see how the bolt actually works. If it’s legitimately better than straight blowback, I could see this design becoming a new standard. The AR-based PCC has never worked well enough for me.

   • It is a real delayed blowback, with a 2-piece bolt group, where a head is locked, but moves a small amount, and exerts pressure on a larger part through a mechanical disadvantage. In HK, the disadvantage is the angle against which rollers act. In Kirali it’s a basic lever. In Guard, the disadvantage is actually the cam track in the carrier. As the bolt rotates, it tries to accelerate the carrier back through the cam pin. This way the BCG in Guard is much lighter than the bolt in Thompson or Grease Gun. By the time the bolt rotates enough to unlock, bullet has long left the barrel and it’s not longer exerting any pressure on the carrier. Instead, the inertia of the carrier continues to unlock the bolt through the same cam track (only its opposite side).

10. I will say that this certainly needs a can to be cool enough to spend $1200 on.

11. I love all the naysayers that really have no idea what it costs to build a PCC. These are expensive to build. A good quality purpose built lower with LRBHO is expensive. Other parts are pricey as well. Its easy to drop $450 just on a quality lower and a good bolt. Add in a decent upper for $200 with a handguard and it adds up fast. Well I guess you could just go the PSA route, buy some crap, throw it together and hope it works, and save a few hundred.

    Look at a Sig MPX. They are pricey, but probably one the best PCC’s out there. We wont even go into HK’s for price. Yes, the CZ Scorp is less money, but its not nearly as refined as an MPX or a well built PCC on the AR platform.

    Good on CMMG for building something that is reasonably priced, should see $1100ish for street price. I hope they build one in 10mm as direct blowback 10mm is a little hot for. The only thing I dont like about it? Glock mags. Id prefer an SMG style mag like a UMP or MAC as they tend to be more reliable for LRBHO.

    • The problem with SMG mags is that they never have provisions for a bolt hold-open, because it’s unnecessary when firing in burts: if your gun stops firing before you release the trigger, it all you need to know to reload.

      • Plus most SMG fired from an OPEN BOLT!!!

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