New From Ed Brown: CCO LW 9mm 1911

1. The 1911… a classic that just won’t die.

   Despite better modern alternatives.

   • I say the same thing about my longbows and muzzle loaders.

   • …If you like your 1911, you can keep your 1911…
     Just sayin.’

     • One of the benefits of a 7-round magazine*. -:)

       * May not apply to all calibers in all states…

   • “better alternatives” is subjective….to some of us, the 1911 is the better alternative.

     I’ve owned Glocks. They’re OK. I just like 1911’s better.

     • Oh look! A 1911 that retains all the features you’ve loved it for! Bigger and heavier in every dimension than a Glock 19, without the pesky affordable, twice as many rounds or nearly unfailing out of the box reliability problems!

       Confused as to why you’d go with 9MM if the magazine capacity is (maybe) +1 over .45, the round the gun was designed around? So you can load your magazines with cheap ammo twice as often as any modern 9MM pistol?

       Own both, carry the .45 CCO, but other than the fact it cost more than double the Glock 19 and I feel obligated to put my money to use, not sure how the CCO can be justified against the Glock or any other modern high quality 9MM for carry. 1911 has a great trigger (when so tuned) and is an easy gun to shoot IMO, but if I have to defend myself with a pistol, twice as many rounds is a huge plus. And based on the trend towards multiple assailants, more is better.

2. One of the first 1911s I ever fired, maybe the first, was an absolute unicorn. A 5″ Ed Brown Custom Kobra chambered in .357Sig. It belonged to the Governor of Texas, and it was the gun that got me hooked on the 1911. Hell of a gun.

   • Nice to have friends in high places.

3. Why buy a 9 mm with 8 round mag capacity that weighs 29 oz. when you can get a .45 which weighs the same and has the same capacity?

   • Cheaper ammo?
     Faster shot recovery?
     You already have a nine and don’t want more than one flavor of ammo to need your attention?
     Because you damn well feel like it?
     Who knows?
     – that said: frankly I feel that any 1911 that isn’t a .45 or 10mm is blasphemous.

   • Good question Mark…its for people who know that the 9MM is the better round, and that .45ACP only offers you disadvantages. You get substantial weight savings (in carrying ammo) with 9MM, and its also better at intermediate barrier penetration than .45ACP. There are more ammunition choices in 9MM, its cheaper to shoot than .45ACP. 9MM has a flatter trajectory and longer effective range due to the higher velocity, and you don’t give up any lethality…..45ACP is no more effective at stopping people (although the ballistically unknowledgeable will piss and moan and refuse to believe that fact). Plus, and here’s the real reason…you can have a 1911 with ammunition compatibility with all the good guns of the world (think MP5 clones, MPX, any modern duty sized handgun like Glock, Sig, CZ). Its for people who may want to try out the nostalgia of the 1911, but not waste their time by having to add a completely obsolete caliber (.45ACP) to their inventory. Glad I could clear things up for you Mark.

     • “,,,you don’t give up any lethality…..45ACP is no more effective at stopping people ”

       Please provide objective data to back up this claim. It seems to fly in the face of traditional knowledge of the kinematics of injury. Namely that more energy delivered as well as a larger permanent wound Channel would be more deadly than a smaller one.

       • You’re obviously very unknowledgeable about ballistics. If you have questions, I recommend you go to google and do hours of research to bring yourself up to speed on how modern ammunition performs. There’s a wealth of useful information out there online, Including FBI tests.

       • Madd cap… check your privledge dude. JWT has more experience with bullet wounds in his pinky than you do in your entire misguided brain.

       • Madcapp, the only FBI data that I’ve found states clearly that, round for round, the .45ACP delivers a larger and deeper wound channel as compared to the 3 other rounds tested, which included the 9X19. Which FBI data are you citing?
         I’ve had the opportunity to study the matter a little bit, but I’m always willing to look at new data. I’d be happy to review any objective you could provide.

     • What is the weight savings between 8 (or 9) rounds of 9 mm vs 8 (or 9) rounds of .45 ACP? Enough to effect your draw? (I don’t think so sports fans.) At 21 feet or fewer, who cares abut barrier penetration? Or “effective range”? In a DGU, we are not going to be shooting the length of a football field, not if we want to avoid prosecution. And doesn’t this fly in the face of your contention that all SD ammo is about equally effective?
       Is high quality 9 mm SD ammo really any cheaper than .45 ACP? Based on my experience buying both, I don’t think so sports fans. Either caliber is going to run $.50 a round or more. I remember during the last drought a LGS wanted $50 for a 20 round box of 9 mm Hydroshocks. (No, I didn’t buy.) Lehighs run over $1/round for 9 mm. The only real cost differential is in practice ammo, and that is about $0.10/round–or less.
       Compatibility with arms that I will never see much less own in my lifetime? Oh, please! I live in California; they don’t allow us to have such things. Ten rounds is the max for EVERYTHING (well, mostly; there are some tube-fed .22s that can carry more.). So for me, given a choice between 9 rounds of 9 or nine rounds of 45, in guns that cost the same, I’ll take sweet shooting .45.

       • While I don’t share Madcapp’s snark, I will say this about .45 ACP: it’s really heavy. It’s much easier to stockpile massive amounts of 9mm. My 9mm is primarily 124 grain, and MY. 45 ACP is primarily 230 grain, and my .40 is mostly 180 grain. 1000 rounds of .45 weighs a lot more than 1000 rounds of 9. Get to 10,000 rounds or so and the ability to buy, carry, and store 9mm is just a lot easier. When limited to 11 pounds of ammo on a flight, I can transport a lot more 9mm.

         That’s one of the reasons the military uses 9mm and 5.56: the power to weight ratio. 9mm is currently my favorite, but I simply don’t have the time or energy to get excited about caliber wars, and I carry all of the major ones anyway.

       • If you are rounds limited, I would man up and go to 10 mm

       • I’m not rounds limited, I’m limited by size and weight. It’s a lot easier to store 20,000 rounds of 9mm (dear Steve from the NSA, that’s just a theoretical number), than 20,000 rounds of .45 ACP. It’s also easier to fit 15, 17, 19, 20, 31, or 33 rounds into a Glock 19 than it is to put that amount into a .45. Glock 18 mags are cheap and reliable.

         I carry .380, 9mm, .357, .40, and .45 ACP. If I’m expecting trouble I carry a 5.56 or a .729 loaded with 00. I store quantities of .22 LR, 9mm, and 5.56 because they are easy to find, buy, and stockpile.

         The 10mm is a cool round, I just don’t happen to own it.

   • Or why not buy a .38 Super, instead of a wimpy 9MM?

     • A full pressure 38 Super round in an aluminum framed CCO platform would be pretty Snappy. It would take quite a bit of training two control it in fastfire. Especially one-handed.

       • A day late and a dollar short on this one I know, sorry to bring back a zombie. But I had to comment. Guardian, Al frame – commander – much like this gun (ok not officer frame but … bobtailed aluminum and commander slide so, close) in 38 super. Awesome little thing and tangibly less snappy than a full size 45. Although I have to admit to being a bit of an oddity as I tend to shoot commander as well as or better than longer slides. And a bit of a 38 super snob, so – generally odd man out all around.

   • While I’m a fan of .45 as well as 1911s, and I know it’s blasphemy to say this… But the 1911 in 9mm is such a sweet shooting gun. That big metal frame just soaks up all the recoil and you can keep putting shot after shot into the target.

   • 8 rounds of 9MM weighs less than 8 rounds of 45

     This comment system is the worst on the interwebs

     • Nooo! Far better than a Facebook based comment system like NFL.com or ANY trashy disqus system.

   • It’s lighter than 8 rounds of .45 ACP with 200 to 230gr pills, slimmer, cheaper ammo for more practice, etc.

     There are reasons for a single-stack 9×19.

     Me, personally, I’d go with either .38 Super or 9×23 Winchester (preferably the latter). .357 Mag ballistics in a semi-auto.

   • This is the officer sized grip, so it’s about 1/2″ shorter than a commander or govt model. You could only get about 6 rounds of .45 in this grip length, I believe.

4. I used to be from the school of if it doesn’t begin with a 4……………..
   Now Id never give up my EDC 1911 Officers in 9mm.`
   Reasons why don’t really matter.
   But the 9mm overall is a fun round to shoot in a 1911.
   Now as for a $2.5 3K+ or so Ed Brown.
   Never going to happen for me.
   I don’t care if its made of solid gold.
   A good gun that’s dependable comfortable and most importantly accurate. Can be had for a lot less.

   • Well, at current gold prices 29 oz would be over $35,000 so I’d definitely be a buyer at $3K.

     • Don’t forget that the specific gravity of gold is over 7x that of aluminum. So that 29oz aluminum frame would be 219.53oz of gold. (Assuming everything is dimensionally identical)

5. I bought a slightly used STI 1911 9MM for CMP service pistol matches. It’s been absolutely reliable and holds 1.25″ at 25 yds. Nothing else, including Beretta/ Glock/Sig, I’ve tried thus far has the sweet hold or slim grips of a SA 1911.

6. cant justify spending on one handgun what i could purchase a handgun a rifle and a shotgun with…and still have money left over for practice and carry ammo

   its not even close to 2x as good as a glock for 4-5x the price

   what if you scratch it…or drop it…its practically a museum piece

   not interested

7. Over the last 40 years or so I have owned, handled, fired, broken, fixed and lusted after dozens if not hundreds of handguns. My favorite pistol remains the 1911 in .45 ACP.
   My inspiration was such men as Libourel, Seyfreid, Clark, Pachmayr, Wilson, Fowler and Cooper. More recently, Brown, Harrison, Yost, Baer and others have refined this timeless platform, producing works of industrial art.

   I will admit they are not for everybody- some will prefer a glock.

8. To those bashing a 1911 in 9×19: It doesn’t have to be either/or. The 1911 is one of the sweetest shooting platforms there is, and there is a huge demand for EDC single stack 9’s, and this hits that sweet spot. 1911’s in 9×19 are just modernizing a familiar, proven platform, nothing wrong with that. A commander sized 1911 (in .45 ACP) was my first CC gun and I loved it. The 9×19 1911’s would be great for those a little more recoil sensitive, but who still like their 1911’s.

   • Ya want some REAL blasphemy?

     My new favorite gun is a Browning 1911-.380

     That’s right, I said a 1911 in .380. It’s roughly the size of an officers’ model .45 but much thinner and lighter.

     It’s super lightweight and super fun.

     And hey, to the posters discussing ammo weight, .380 weighs even less than 9mm!

     Now if they would only make it in .32….THAT would be a fun plinker!

     C’mon, waiting for the caliber flames, don’t disappoint me!

     • At least the .380 is scaled down.

       A CCO 1911 is longer, taller, wider, and heavier than a Glock 19. With twice as many rounds.

       A $1000+ gun better be a nice shooter, but price doesn’t tell all.

       • *half as many

       • I actually agree with you that if its wider than an equivalent caliber Glock that holds twice the ammo, then it sounds like the CCO kinda defeats the purpose of itself.

         And BTW, I am disappointed that nobody bit on the caliber war…..

     • The trend towards “tactical” junk ends up with the 1911 safety and slide stop wider then they were originally. Ambidextrous would make it worse. If a CCO has “thin” grips and original dimension safety/slide stop then they are probably the same width. Counting just slide width is fake news. Even if the dimensions are exactly the same, half as many rounds of the same caliber just makes it worse. Look at the 9mm “1911” barrels. you arent losing any diameter in steel…so why? The gun *could* probably be significantly narrower in 9mm, but that would require reworking everything…which would then mean the gun would be worthwhile, even with reduced round count. At probably even more cost. Or just go with any of the multiple single stack modern pistols that probably halve most dimensions of a CCO-sized gun.

9. Sometimes I think about how nice it would be to carry and train with one of these little Ferrari class numbers on a day-to-day bassis. Then I think about using the pistol for what it’s actually meant for. I think about placing it on the ground, and having police lock it away for (non)god knows how long as “evidence.” Yeah…. nope. A Performance Center Shield will do me right with a lot less heart-ache knowing I gave the state a $2.75k – $3.5k gift just for defending myself.

10. Farago’s latest ‘throwaway’ pistol!!!

    🙂

11. Sure looks like a sweet gun. Would have been a little nicer looking IMO if it had real rosewood thin grips.

12. I can’t see spending $3000 or more for a pistol that I would actually use. Maybe for display if I had my own museum of expensive toys.

    It’s like tacticool dudes buying a $700 combat knife made out of exotic steel alloys. You can buy a cheap-ass carbon steel old-style Ka-Bar or Ontario Knife Co knife and throw it away if it gets dull and buy replacements and STILL never spend $700 on the knife your entire life – and it’ll cut good.

13. Oh look! A 1911 that retains all the features you’ve loved it for! Bigger and heavier in every dimension than a Glock 19, without the pesky affordable, twice as many rounds or nearly unfailing out of the box reliability problems!

    Confused as to why you’d go with 9MM if the magazine capacity is (maybe) +1 over .45, the round the gun was designed around? So you can load your magazines with cheap ammo twice as often as any modern 9MM pistol?

    Own both, carry the .45 CCO, but other than the fact it cost more than double the Glock 19 and I feel obligated to put my money to use, not sure how the CCO can be justified against the Glock or any other modern high quality 9MM for carry. 1911 has a great trigger (when so tuned) and is an easy gun to shoot IMO, but if I have to defend myself with a pistol, twice as many rounds is a huge plus. And based on the trend towards multiple assailants, more is better.

    • Single stack. They sell a lot of Shields, XDs, and Glock 43, and others for a reason – east of concealment. The Commander 1911 gives you that with 2 extra rounds in some cases (at the expense of a taller frame), with better accuracy, great triggers (nice 1911s), and tons of class in many of the nicer 1911s. This Ed Brown 9mm officer sized grip holds 8 round magazines, while the officer size .45 ACP is only 6 rounds. Not sure why people are so confused about that last fact. Maybe people are just glossing over the reading. That said, I have a 9mm Kimber 1911 Pro Carry II with a full size grip and 4″ barrel – holds 9+1 rounds with a flush mag and is very accurate and has a great trigger and looks great – although the long grip doesn’t conceal as well as the officer size frame, or my XDs, but I carry it about half the time (rotate between my XDs and the Kimber).

      • Again, I will reiterate: A 1911, single stack CCO (even with a smaller diameter 9MM round?? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of 9MM in the first place?), is WIDER than a Glock 19, with 15+1 rounds. It’s also taller and longer with the same barrel length. My DW CCO holds 7+1 rounds of *.45* in the mag. Why would I even consider gaining one round in the same size package, when I could get twice as much in a smaller gun if concealed carry is the goal?

        • Interesting that the CCO is so fat. One of the advantages of 1911s can be their flatness compared to double stack guns. A fat single stack kinda defeats the purpose….

        • A few good points – let me counter a couple of them. Officer sized 1911s are the same height as a G19 (both 5″ high). They hold 8+1 of 9mm, and a G19 holds 15+1, so the G19 holds not quite twice as many 9mm rounds (9 vs 16 total). The slide of a 1911 is about 0.90″ wide, and the frame is about 3/4″ wide. It is the grip panels that give the 1911 it’s width (and ambi safeties, if outfitted with it), which is about 1.28″. Adding slimmer grips can get the grip width down to around 1.1″ or so. A G19 slide and frame is about 1.2″ wide, which means that the 1911 slide and frame is significantly narrower. The 1911 slide is more than 1/4″ narrower (7 mm +/-), and the frame is about 11 mm narrower, than a G19. The slide and frame are what fits in your waistband, making it easier to conceal than a wider frame. The grip on a 1911, while a bit wider than the G19 grip, can be made narrower with slim grips. The overall length of a 1911 typically includes the beaver tail, if I’m not mistaken. The slide for a 4″ 1911 is actually shorter than the G19 slide. That is a hindrance in the sight radius dept, I guess. Plus, I love the trigger on my 9mm Kimber Pro Carry II – so nice compared to a striker-fired gun, ESPECIALLY compared to a Glock. It could also be argued that the inherent accuracy of the 1911 is better than the Glock (not to say people can’t shoot Glocks accurately, though). These are just some facts and a few opinions. I carry my 1911 (9+1 rounds) over my XD Mod.2 service 9mm (16+1) because of the narrower width, trigger, and the fact that I like the 1911 better than polymer striker fired guns. To each his own. That said, for home protection, the XD sits in my bedside quick access safe.

14. FlamencoD…due to the posting “issues” here, I can’t reply direct.

    You are correct. Ammo isn’t quite double. It’s only 44% more. And a reload.

    The measurements. I go with the maximum in every dimension, because that’s what we have to work with and it’s fact. I have a DW CCO and G19 sitting on the table next to me. Sitting frame down, on their sites, the G19 is almost exactly 5″. The CCO is 5.125″ give or take a few hundredths.

    The G19 is a full 3/4″ shorter than the CCO.

    According to the manufacturers, the G19 barrel is .24″ shorter than the CCO. Also, G19 is 20.9oz, the CCO is 28.7.

    Slides are very similar in length…about 6-5/8″ for both, the Glock is slightly longer there.

    G19 sight radius 5-7/8″, 5-3/4″ for the CCO (measuring rear of front blade to front of rear sight notch).

    Your ambi safety comment is incorrect. “Single” 1911 safety, but modern style as pictured in this article, are WIDER than the grip panels…by .0625″, at least on my CCO. Ambi? Double that.

    If you remove the safeties and grip panels, 1911 is narrower. Got it. Somehow that doesn’t seem like a valid comparison. 😉 Where it counts, laying both fully assembled guns on a flat surface, the G19 is SIGNIFICANTLY thinner…straightedge tells me somewhere around .25″ narrower.

    Unfortunately I don’t have a models physique. It doesn’t matter what part of the gun is fat, in fact I’d be better off with a fat slide than I would be fat grip section. Since you don’t get that with pistols I can think of, same width across the entire pistol really doesn’t matter with my frame (185lbs, 6′) because my gun handles, er, love handles, press against the butt of the gun regardless. Given the same size pants, the narrower slide will be an easier fit, if the waistband was near your actual waist measurement in the first place. Or buy the next size up and a wider slide fits fine.

    I completely disagree about concealment, although I think you are looking at it differently. The butt of the 1911 is what prints. Not the slide. Fitment is a different issue, covered above.

    Obviously this is not settling anything. To each his own is correct. It’s good that we can even discuss this topic, many in the world cannot. And realistically, a tenth of an inch here or there does not amount to much at all. In my experience, the only thing relevant to everyday carry (ability to shoot a particular firearm is on the individual) that the two differ significantly in, is weight. Half a pound is over 25% heavier. Fully loaded, the G19 is going to most likely be the same, or less, than a 1911 CCO is, empty. I just don’t feel like doing the math, I’m confident that is correct however.

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