LWRC surprised everyone at NRAAM this year by releasing a completely new platform, the SMG-45. It’s a .45 ACP subgun that takes HK UMP magazines. For the commercial market it will be available in both SBR and SB Tactical pistol-braced pistol forms.
A tubular folding stock graces the rear of the SBR version.
It features an adjustable length of pull and, based on the two screws seen in the top tube, possibly a facility for future cheek rests.
Over to the pistol and we see an SB Tactical pistol stabilizing brace.
The right side of the LWRC SMG-45 features a bolt release and bolt catch that mirrors the AR-style one on the left side. The safety lever is ambidextrous, too, as is the paddle-style magazine release under the rear of the magazine well.
A non-reciprocating forward charging handle can be swapped from the left to the right side depending on the user’s preference. Naturally, the muzzle is threaded.
Helping that threaded muzzle be more effective when suppressed and greatly cutting down on felt recoil as compared to a straight blowback system is a unique delayed blowback mechanism. The barrel and bolt travel rearwards together for a short distance before unlocking, which delays the opening of the action and allows the pressure to drop and more of the gas and pressure to exit the muzzle rather than the ejection port.
As you can see, the lower is marked “MULTI-CAL,” and LWRC says that conversions to at least 9×19 and possibly other calibers are on the way.
The new LWRCI SMG-45 is an extremely nice looking and feeling, high quality firearm. Fit, finish, and design are fantastic (though for the consumer market I could have gone for M-LOK slots rather than LWRC’s own attachment system). I’m extremely excited to hopefully put some rounds through one eventually.
But hoo-eee it ain’t cheap at an MSRP of $2,995.
Awesome! Im a big fan of the UMP, and this looks like it will be a good alternative to that!
Yeah, but what kinda short-sighted clown specs a new SMG in .45 ACP at the first offering? I saw the video from NRAAM with the rep, this SMG started as a solicitation which never went through…at the point the deal fell through, it should have been immediately reconfigured for 9MM. This SMG has been shown at least since NRA 2016 in Louisville, they’ve had plenty of opportunity to change to 9MM and go to M-LOK, especially considering its stratospheric (for a pistol caliber PDW) $3000 price tag. And since it looks heavily “AR” in its design, I wonder if its going to break trigger pins every 800 rounds like many other 9MM AR platform guns do.
actually … the .45acp is within the top 5 sold pistol cartridges.
Don’t tell me about the “top sold” of anything. Most people are cheap and stupid…that’s why that sell the sh/t out of Budweiser, Bud Light, and Michelob Ultra. But it doesn’t mean those are particularly good beers just because they’re sold in massive quantities. I could go on and on with examples like that…cars, A/V equipment, etc.
If they designed it for 45 ACP then it’s probably built to handle every other popular pistol cartridge: 9mm, 10mm, 40S&W, 357 Sig, etc.
I don’t blame them either, 45 ACP is still a popular cartridge, whether you like it or not, and with all these new SMGs there aren’t any in 45 other than the APC as I recall (unless you count the UMP 45 recreations). There is still a market for it there and they can distinguish themselves a bit. Not to mention how many people with SMG/PDW/”pistols”/whatever put cans on them? A lot do, and as you probably know 45 ACP is well suited for suppression.
No, it’s not a popular handgun cartridge, because when you have to hold a double stack 45 handgun it always feels like a behemoth. But when you can have those 25 rounds hanging off the gun just forward the trigger then you’ve drastically changed a factor in caliber choice.
I’m putting some possible rationale behind the decision with all that, and you can’t deny it, but you don’t have to agree or like it. Hell, it could have been a lengthy internal discussion, it could have been the head of the company likes 45 so much and scoffed at everyone else. Maybe they had a vote, maybe it’s something else but it is what it is.
Personally, I like it, and personally, I want a 45 SMG, and in a new design. LWRC looks like they took what works: AR controls, AR parts (presumably), H&K magazines, and put on a side-charging handle and M-LOK abound. If it weren’t for the $3k price tag I’d seriously consider it.
.45ACP in nearly all but the very lightest bullet weights is subsonic, relatively low pressure, and has that cavernous barrel inside diameter to further dissipate gas volume. It’s an outstanding round to suppress, and efficient to run in 6-12” barrels. You get all the muzzle velocity increase you’ll practically see with LWRC’s barrel length, a caliber begging for a can, and a half-inch thumper of a bullet out the end. No buffer tube silliness to try and work around, so the folded brace or stock actually drops the footprint to something vehicle or backpack worthy.
Churn out a few thousand to drop the price, add a 10mm and 9mm option, and they’ll sell like mad.
If your the person who want suppressors on everything, then 45 ACP and 300 AAC are your favorite choices. It’s the reason why HK early on, only developed 45 ACP suppressed with the Mark 23 SOCOM for Navy Seals and later USP for civilians.
I loves me some .45 but for $3k, I’m taking Dan Wesson and S&W Performance Center 1911 bobtail commanders.
$3k for a short-recoil PCC? Um… nope. Not going to happen. That’s high-end rifle money. There are plenty of awesome PCC options on the market at 2/3 – 1/3 of that. Everything from MP5 clones, to Kriss’ Wunderwaffen, to the bog standard Scorpion. Add to that the fact that it uses unobtanium (or $80 retail) UMP mags? Um… nope.
HK Parts has the US made mags for $49. I have both German and US made and I see no difference in quality.
As far as the value, if it was in 9X19 I’d agree with you, but it’s not. I don’t think LWRC will sell a lot of them at that price, but it’s worth it, at least to me. I’m sure I’m not alone. I’d pick this over my UMP45, just because of the trigger.
For $3k I can pick up a Vector in both .45 ACP AND 10mm…
I think Vectors are completely ridiculous and pointless to everyone except for as a curiosity. The only thing Vectors do well is take glock mags and, theoretically, better at full auto. And the former is accomplished by other PCCs half the price. The latter cant be accomplished due to the current state of our civil liberties but really it full auto fire rate is still a little too high.
As far as what this articled gun offers to me? Nothing. Until .45 PCCs are more reasonable in price ill pass. 600$ or less and lose the AR buffer tube mess and trigger pin snaps. Now that ive mention it 1 of the two LWRCs ive seen was a jamomatic and the other didn’t do anything a free gloated M&P doesnt do while being hundreds less and looking nearly identical.
It’s not really my cup of tea but I doubt the price will be that high forever. Street price is probably $2400-$2500 and will fall over the next couple of years to sub-$2000.
The mags are the issue to me. Much as I like my HK pistols I do hate the fact that there are no 3rd party vendors for HK parts in general which means mags are pricey and remain that way. Well made but pricey.
Generally speaking I fail to see the point in a semi-auto subgun.
On anything with a longer than 6″ barrel, I agree with you. I think that tiny “micro” (Think MP5K / Vector) PCCs have a place in home defense and personal protection. (Especially if you SBR them.)
Well, that and the 5K is just plain cool as hell.
Having fired the Vector (in .45) and the MP5K both with the giggle switch installed, I’m partial to the Vector. (The two round burst function is a technological marvel.) Sadly, Kriss won’t ship factory SBRs to my state because “reasons” so it went on the back burner while I got my MP5K “pistol” and waited on paperwork.
The whole recoil system on the Vector is an interesting design and the one I shot was pretty nice, though it was a 9mm. So I can understand that.
I just kind of have an overall level of disgust with them due to the influence of CODMW3/other games.
If you see one in a gun store all the people my age and below want to marvel at it, play with it and a bunch of them end up muzzling people with it. Same thing with the Scorpion EVO pistols. They seem to attract a certain level of tomfuckery that other guns don’t. That overarching “cool” factor combined with the general level of stupidity of the people picking it up repulses me. My wife almost beat the fuck out of some skater idiot for pointing an EVO at her last time we were at a gun shop.
Sounds stupid, but IME, it’s something that attracts a certain kind of idiot and, if you get one, guess who you end up attracting? At least with a muffler all you get is old guys who tell you it’s illegal… but since they think it’s illegal they don’t want to play with it.
Yeah, games sell guns and get people into firearms. I’ve made that argument before but I’d rather not follow that groove on certain “popular game guns” I guess and the Vector is one of them.
To be fair, I’d bet you had the exact same level of bullshit with MP5s and other HK shit two decades ago when the Rainbow Six games were all the rage. The Vector is just the new hotness. To be fair to the Vector, it’s a very good brand of new hotness.
The only thing I didn’t really like on the full auto one I got to play with were the separate safety and fire rate controls. I much prefer the HK style 4 position safety, but I can see the utility of a gun you can flip from safe directly to burst without the risk of accidentally setting it to semi or dumping a magazine. (Which happens in under 2 seconds from a full giggle switch equipped Vector.) In full auto, the best I could do was 4-5 round bursts.
Still, video games get people into guns. Gamers turn into airsofters who turn into practical rifle / 3 gun guys. Not a bad way to grow the community. Realistically, it’s no different from all the tools who grew up reading too much Soldier of Fortune in the 70s and 80s.
I dunno about Rainbow Six but the original CS made the PSG-1, G3 and Styer Scout popular and MW3/The Division both made the Vector popular along with the Osprey line of suppressors from SiCo. RF knew all about this line of getting people into guns which is why he originally wanted game reviews for TTAG, along with some other techno based stuff to get people, especially younger people into the 2A community.
Personally, if I was going to buy something specifically because I saw it in a game it would be like the BFG from Doom, Gravity Gun from Half-Life or something crazy from Borderlands or the Destiny franchise.
“pwrserge says:
April 29, 2019 at 21:58
…………………………..Realistically, it’s no different from all the tools who grew up reading too much Soldier of Fortune in the 70s and 80s.”
HEY!!!!
I resemble that remark!
“strych9 says:
April 29, 2019 at 23:33
………………………………….Personally, if I was going to buy something specifically because I saw it in a game it would be like the BFG from Doom, Gravity Gun from Half-Life or something crazy from Borderlands or the Destiny franchise.”
I’m still waiting for a phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range.
https://youtu.be/BIPCn-aYMoM
Hey, what you see is what we got, pal
I have been waiting four years for this gun, honestly I was afraid it was vaporware…
Yeah I thought they had given up on it. It does seem like they refined it and made it more custom, I was thinking it would have a standard AR charging handle and be blow back, basically just an AR45. I like the ump mags instead of Glock mags for this.
Three grand, not in 9 or 10mm, takes expensive HK mags, not MLOK compatible…
What a failure and waste of serious talent.
THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS for a semi auto machine pistol. PASS.
Sorry, but what makes this better and more expensive than a B&T APC 45?
I drooled over these when they were first teased, but $3k? That’s kinda ridiculous. And yeah, I know the APC 45 pro will be close in price.
But again. What does this offer over that? Especially with the glock mag lower.
So… Why would anyone buy this instead of a b&t apc45?
The main reason, I gather, APC45 is still a blowback. So basically it’s no better than UMP.
It’s a delayed blowback system that will suppress well if the gun works as advertised. Try finding B&T APC 45 (blow back) mags for less than $90. I shoot suppressed almost exclusively in order to save what little hearing I have left. I’ll only buy delayed blow back. Unfortunately for LWRC, the MP5, MPX, and CMMG banshee all do it a lot cheaper.
I could get 10+ M3 SMG’s for the cost of one of these…
You couldn’t even get one.
How much and how do i get one?
You could also buy 10 Hi Point carbines for that price, and in several different calipers of your choice.
…as much as I like the idea of a PCC in .45 ACP, I’m not seeing a reason this would be 3x as much fun as a Scorpion EVO 3 at the range.
They’ll sell a lot more of these things if they cut the price to a grand or so.
Looks cool ….but nope.
They developed the gun for the government. It didn’t work out so well. Now they pass on the cost to the citizen. Typical…
It would be a cool gun to own if it was in 10mm and was closer to $1,500.
Colt found that strategy to be… unproductive.
Would have fun owning it if I could afford such an extravagance and all that money to keep it well fed.
Thus, it’s just an interesting photo on the interwebs.
A $3K toy that most people couldn’t afford to keep fueled. Money better spent on More AMMO. Better Security for the Home. Training especially Medical. SHTF Preparedness. Natural and Human Disasters. At the very least hide the cash away for the unknown. I guess I’m old fashioned. Never could understand pissing money away on expensive toys that sit on the shelf to be bragged about. Oh well to each their own. Keep Your Powder Dry.
It looks nice indeed. Would be a lot more attractive at 1.5k range. For 3k price, I will go for a top of the line Wilson Combat AR pistol that takes glock mag AND with the rest of the money get a Glock 19 that also takes Glock mag.
Blah blah blah MSRP
Nice looking pcc/subgun!
In .45…interesting choice, but a good one.
I hope they can get the price down to more realistic levels
I want, but my usually understanding wife will balk at that price.
“… a unique delayed blowback mechanism. The barrel and bolt travel rearwards together for a short distance before unlocking …” — This is called a recoil operation, Jeremy. A “delayed blowback” is a different system. The most common delayed blowback is one implemented by H&K in MP-5 and G3. The CMMG Guard and Banshee also use a true delayed blowback.
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