One of the coolest things I saw at NRAAM 2019 was in the Remington booth where Big Green was asking attendees to “help us design the next generation of Remington firearms.” The company was displaying a bunch of prototype guns, each with its own iPad asking a three-question survey.
First, “should we make this firearm?” Yes or no. Easy.
Then “how does this firearm compare to others like it you’ve seen?” Rate it from “nothing new” to “innovative” on a 1- to 5-star scale.
Finally, “how likely would you be to purchase this firearm, if available?” Your answer can range from “very unlikely” to “very likely.”
So then. What did they have on display? Glad you asked:
The pistol seen above is Prototype B.
That super-extra-shiny 1911 is Prototype Y. It looked really great in person. Somewhere between chrome and the extremely glossy, hand-polished-with-whale-fat deep bluing.
Prototype S was a pump-action carbine configured as a scout rifle. That was pretty freakin’ cool.
Good stuff, Remington. I thought this whole thing was really cool. It does run the risk of cannibalizing from current sales should a customer see something in the prototype area and decide to wait on it rather than purchasing an already-available model, but it may just be great for the long-term.
Each of the prototype tags says “Remington: A New Era” on them. Sounds like a plan.
How about a rifle with controlled feed and a trigger that actually will not fail…Oh wait, how about I just buy a Ruger and get everything I need…
Believe it or not, Remington once upon a time used to ship such rifles.
There was the Remington Mauser-action rifles made over 10 years ago called the “Model 798” and “799” – they used a Zavasta-made Mauser clone action. They were pretty good rifles from the few I saw.
Going back further, Remington used to ship an excellent rifle called the Model 30. Built like a tank, very nice. It was the civilian version of the M1917.
“Believe it or not, Remington once upon a time used to ship such rifles.”
yes … they were m1917 enfields.
“Slide lightning cuts.”
Uh-huh.
How shocking.
Personally I’d be happy if Remington could simple make guns that actually freakin’ work straight from the factory once again. And given their history in the past few years I’m pretty sure that’s beyond Remington’s ability at this point.
Prototype B: Yes, 2, 4. Just another 9 but I’m digging that almost-too-busy design.
I want my right eye replaced with a Lazer beam that can burn through 3/4 inch steel plate, got any of those?
Rearranging deck chairs and the band taking last requests on the Titanic, again…c’mon people.-30-
Remington: We aren’t even sure what kind of guns we should make…
I mean the old plan didn’t seem to work out well for them either…
At least they are asking I guess.
It’s one thing when a succesful band solicits requests from the crowd…it’s another when the drunk homeless guy with an out of tune on the corner does the same.
D’accord. -30-
Can we please just flood them with “no’s” so they’ll stop making terrible guns?
Dude the pump action carbine is cool, the Model 7 scout is cool. ACR pistols with SB Tactical SBA3 or FS1913 pistol braces are legit. IF the quality is consistent these products are pretty sweet on paper.
“If.” The R51 was also massively cool, before they dumped that abortion out on the market, rammed it back up in there, and aborted it again for good. Remington’s been tops for missing great opportunities that require even decent execution, I simply don’t see that changing.
The pump action carbine has been around forever. Go look for a Mennonite Machine Gun, aka the Remington Model 760. Remington made over a million of ’em, and they were chambered in everything from .222 Remington to .35 Whelen. Want a 18 inch barrel? Pay your gunsmith a couple hundred to take down by 4″ and re-crown it.
They had a much nicer fit and finish than that carbine above. The 760 was a heck of a handy hunting rifle.
My Ruger Scout does everything I want it to do. It’s out-of-the-box accuracy and the quality of the trigger actually surprised me. The only limit is the 2.5×28 scout scope I have attached.
These look expensive. Having “Remington” inscribed on it them will make them expensive on top of being expensive. Hey, at least the Prototype F scout-looking gun looks pretty cool.
Wrong caliber… it’s like they are paying somebody to “almost” pay attention.-30-
I was thinking the same thing unfortunately.
Who’s turn is it to burn the suggestion box contents?
They’re saving that for when it gets chilly. Man, even if this is totally honest…how worthless must that data be, really? As if ‘Dood Randoman at NRA show’ has great ideas about what will actually sell in quantity.
I think this is a great idea and should be followed by other companies. The firearms industry is still a distribution facing market, SHOT show is evidence of this. Until they change this to consumer facing they will continue to suffer from consumers begging for innovation and then struggling sells from stupid products. This will give them an idea on the direction the market is heading and a head count on the numbers of sells they can expect. Let’s just say the R51 would have never made it to market. As far as the starving the market until the product is released shouldn’t be a concern for Remington, maybe the smaller companies though, but if Remington does this right they should have all the bugs worked out and ready for production run within a month or two. The gun industry needs to be more like the auto industry where the big boys are known for quality and innovations, like Jaguar and Cadillac, they run the product for a couple years exclusively and the pass it on to the little brothers, like ford and chevy to continue if the product is of value.
The R51 had huge demand, and completely rocked the world when it was announced, because Glock hadn’t released their G43 yet, and Sig hadn’t released their P365 yet, and the compact/single-stack 9mm carry-optimized gun fad hadn’t truly kicked off –it was still long-awaited back then. The Model 51 it was based on had a very solid track record, and the gun looked cool & different compared to the Glocks it was competing against, and the price of <$500 was downright compelling.
Then they bribed/suckered a bunch of reviewers & writers to say glowing things about the pre-production guns, then they released a bunch of hot-garbage from a plant they were about to shut down after firing everyone, with little to no quality control of any sort. By this point they'd also suckered partners like Trijicon, Crimson Trace, Galco, and others into making accessories for a dead letter, ensuring that none of these things would ever be developed in the future even if they hadn't half-assed the post-recall improvements to deliver an unreliable, cheaply made blaster, that by that time was outclassed by all the good 9mm carry guns coming onto the market.
Maybe Remington could be capable of executing a product well, but they haven't fired nearly enough people since the R51/Cerberus days for me to think it's likely or possible.
“I think this is a great idea and should be followed by other companies.”
Any yahoo can push a button at a trade show saying they will buy it.
It’s quite another to actually open their wallet and start counting out the hundreds and laying them on the counter…
Quality and affordability should be a consideration on whatever they build. They may work on the quality but they will ignore affordability.
Retool and bring back the 105CTI Ii. I have one that I shoot for skeet. Bought a used one for parts as parts are unavailable. I’m left handed and love the gun.
Unfortunately, the first two years after I bought it, the factory had it more than I did. They finally got it running right and I’ve had zero problems with it for years. Love the gun!!!!!!!
Remington, how about a PCC that’s light, handy and priced below the Sig MPX?
It’s called the Stribog, and Remington doesn’t make it 😉
Does Remington want real feedback? OK, here’s some real feedback, from someone who knows what it takes to make a gun.
Remington used to make a rifle that was an excellent starting point for custom sporting rifles: The Model 30. This was basically a M1917 in a variety of cartridges, the most popular of which was the ’06. It was a great starting point for dangerous game rifles, because the Model 30 (M1917) was so massively over-built. OK, so build a Model 30 action again, heck put a button-rifled barrel on it, and I’ll pony up $1500 for a mere barreled action – no finish or stock. I’ll do those issues. Just a barreled action, in the white, and $1500 is yours. Heck, bring me a Model 30 action, in the white, complete bolt & bottom metal for a ’06 class cartridge, polished to a 240 grit finish, and I’ll fork up $900.
What’s that? Crickets? Yea, I thought so.
OK, here’s another suggestion: The Remington Model 51. Not the “R51” abortion, but a real Model 51 from 100 years ago – just bring it out in 9×19 instead of .380. Single stack – don’t muddy up the design with nonsense from the Tactical Timmy brigades. Bring me an all-steel Model 51 in 9×19, with nice grips and a nice polish/blue finish, and I’ll fork up $1400 for one. Bring me one in stainless and I’ll add another $200. The polish job has to be correct, tho, as does the blueing job. BTW, that polish job on the 1911 above? The edges look rounded.
But Remington doesn’t want to hear about suggestions like these. Nooo. They want to go from a cheap bolt action rifle (the 700) to an even cheaper bolt-action rifle with a barrel nut (ala Savage).
Look at the finish on that 7600 above. The original 760 was an inexpensive rifle when it was first made, but it looked 10X as nice as that 7600 above.
Cripes, when I think of what Remington has given up in their stupid, stupid, stupid obsession with catering to people who want the cheapest POS gun possible. Consider the Remington Model 32. The $10K O/U shotgun market could have been theirs! But nooo. They gave the Model 32/3200 design away to Krieghoff – who now charges about $10K for a K80, which is a clone of the 32/3200. Look at the Model 37 target .22 – they could have had a chunk of the market for $2500+ target .22 rifles. But noooo. They’ll give that market away to Anschuetz.
On and on and on.
So who is Remington seeking to cater to next? Food stamp recipients?
I read that the Model 51 was chambered in 380 because that action couldn’t handle the pressure of a ‘better’ round. Not true?
“So who is Remington seeking to cater to next? Food stamp recipients?”
Savage 😀
I don’t think that the hesitation locking mechanism would be too weak for the 9×19. Remember, there are many .380’s on the market that are simply blowback actions – the hesitation locking of the Model 51 is, if anything, overkill for the .380.
Remington made a few “Model 53” pistols – a model 51 in .45 ACP, for a potential military contract to replace the 1911. The US Navy found the Model 53 to be simpler to disassemble/reassemble, more accurate, lighter and having fewer parts than the 1911. Because the Dep’t of War and US Army had already inked some huge orders for 1911’s, and because they weren’t about to get rid of the 1911’s they already had, the idea of a second semi-auto pistol in the supply chain was nixed. But the idea was proven – that the Model 51 could be adapted to larger, heavier-recoiling cartridges.
They took the Rohrbaugh and turned it into the most cheap-ass blasted-ass pocket pistol for cheap blitzed bastards imaginable. Pretty much every gun they make anymore except that rock-polishered 1911 has the same dogshit coarse bead blast finish they use to (unsuccessfully) disguise the Izhevsk-ian machining marks on EVERYTHING…and which causes all these guns to rust if you wink at them.
The R51 was testament to just how poor of production quality the Pedersen system could endure, and still mostly work. Short chambers, sharp cam contact surfaces, mismatched cam hardnesses, lowest-rent MIM breech parts, mis-machining, inaccurate disconnectors & sears, misshapen & soft firing pins –the guns still mostly functioned! A 1911 would grenade under the same conditions, probably leaving half the county uninhabitable for a decade, too.
If only ANYONE else could have realized the patents were expired on this cool old design…it would have made an awesome basis for the Maxim pistol, even.
“OK, so build a Model 30 action again, heck put a button-rifled barrel on it, and I’ll pony up $1500 for a mere barreled action – no finish or stock. I’ll do those issues.”
OK- I’ve got a sporter Win-made 1917 with the ears milled off, nice job. Still in ’06. Want that? I’ll tell you where to send the $1500. Phone # upon request. (You can also have the stock it sets in and the scope free. Also have a close on cocking bolt as well.)
If they are going for cheap rifles that shoot, I for one say why not bring back the 788???
As a 760 Gamemaster owner, I like the 7600 Carbine. Although, I wouldn’t buy one because I already have the 760 from the early 50’s and it works great. It has killed a lot of deer from the 50’s to the 90
s. Then I got it and I haven’t shot anything but paper with it. I did a detail strip it about 4 years ago. It was probably the first time anyone had ever done that in it’s life and it was disgusting inside. It is a very smooth action and the trigger isn’t too bad. It was significantly nicer after the cleaning and lubrication. It’s only accurate for a few rounds, then it starts to open up due to the thin barrel. I’ll keep it for life as it was given to me by my Grandpa when I was 12.
It is rare any more that one sees a gun so well thought-out and designed for the purpose of hunting as the Model 760. I’m a huge fan of the 760 as a hunting rifle. As a match rifle? Of course not.
But as a “carry it through the woods and bring home the meat?” Heck yes. the 760 was a well thought-out-hunting rifle. So was its sister rifle, the 740, which was a gas-operated semi-auto that shared a number of parts with the 760.
I agree. It’s a handy rifle and I carried it for about 12 years until I just didn’t have the time to hunt anymore due to my career. If I start up again, I would probably still take it with me occasionally. My dad has a 760 that was purchased at the same time the one I have was, and he retired it about 15 years ago for a Remington 700.
1. Make an R51 that works. Reliably.
2. Offer the Tac-14 DM in 20 ga.
3. Bring back the 7615, but at a price comparable to an 870 (which it should have been in the first place).
I know Remington’s Versa / V3 guns are probably an improvement but Remington should bring back & update their Model 105 CTi. Remington quickly released the CTi II because of initial issues. The gen2 had its issues too. Everything I’ve read history-wise said that the gun was an aborted product even before it was rushed to market.
Not sure if anyone else has ever owned/shot one or knows of someone who owned one. That said, I got an opportunity to shoot a distributor sample many years ago. It ran great & I thought it would have made a phenomenal upland bird gun. I was debating whether to get one and next I knew it wasn’t an offered product by Remington. So they made the decision for me.
I’ll take a Y – been needing a blingtastic BBQ gun
They should definitely make the ACR pistol.
I guess the market is for people who want cheap, but I just don’t understand bolt action rifles that are mass produced. Sans optic, you can spend as little as $1500 for a rifle on a custom action that accepts Savage prefits, looks sexy, functions flawlessly, and puts 5 shots in a dime at 100 yards. And there are companies doing this now. Think PRS production guns with the $2k limit. Masterpiece arms, badrock rifles etc, John Hancock rifle from PVA, etc
can we just have them take the big, ugly, “R” off the handgun grips ?
How about 700s that don’t randomly fire themselves and 870s that last more than a couple hundred rounds. They can’t even get their two flagship models, the basic principles for which are over a century old, to work right. Can we start there please? Maybe hire employees and CQ people with more than single digit IQs… just a thought.
(Seriously, fvck Remington so hard. I hate to say this about an American company with tremendous history, but the sooner that company truly dies the better. To anyone under 40 “Remington” is a nasty swear word and you couldn’t give me one of their hunks of shit)
Ruger is what Remington should be.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/01/magazine/remington-guns-jobs-huntsville.html
How about keeping parts in stock to keep guns running..I have a 105Cti II that out
Shoots my expensive Berettas and Browning in skeet. But, I managed to lose the outer magazine seal on my 26″ barrel. Remington USA, Guncorp, Remington Canada and all Remington Service Centers checked. No one has that part.
Luckily, I have a 28″ barrel to use!
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