New From Stag Arms: Model 9 and 9T 9mm AR-15 Rifles

1. No pistol configuration? I feel like this is a mistake, especially with the popularity of the Sig AR braces.

   • Ditto. Also, for custom builds like this one that I did, I’d like to see more 9mm-specific lower receivers out there and it would be really nice if they sold these stripped lowers by themselves! Build it into a rifle or pistol or whatever as you please. The mag block I used for that custom build works very well, but it still isn’t quite as nice or as bulletproof as a one-piece lower would be.

     • Well, let’s wait until the company figures out if they are building a DI or blowback action. The Specs page for the Model 9 says gas-impingement (DI), the other three models (M9l, M9T, and M9TL) all say they are blowback actions. It would be really weird to offer both, so I’m thinking one or more of the pages may have typo errors.

       The Press Release may be buggered-up too, as it refers to a “carbine-length gas system”, AND a one piece bolt and carrier. Highly unlikely it has both.

       • Yeah, I’m kinda confused about that too.I was expecting it to be a straight blowback and then I too, noticed the “carbine length gas action” and references to DI. Honestly, I think that the 9mm Luger produces too little gas to be able to run any kind of gas action effectively.

2. Why the hell won’t they just release a lower that takes Glock mags? There must be some real engineering related reason why it’s not feasible, because I can not be the only schmuck to have thought of it.

   • I think Lone Wolf Dist. Has a 9mm lower that takes Glock mags

     • Yep.

       https://www.lonewolfdist.com/products.aspx?CAT=3682

   • The main issue is that glock mags go in at a pretty severe angle which doesn’t work well with straight magwells.

     • This. They don’t feed correctly unless they’re at their natural angle, and it looks and feels weird in an AR-15 style platform. The magazine ends up being angled backwards towards the trigger guard.

       Also, the Colt-style (UZI-like) stick mags that most 9mm ARs like these Stags use are double stacked right to the very top just like a normal AR-15 (5.56) magazine. One round is on the left feed lip and the next round will be on the right, and back and forth and back and forth. I’m sure designing a different bolt wouldn’t be too freakin’ terribly difficult, but apparently in this rifle configuration it’s easier to reliably strip off and chamber rounds from a wide-mouthed magazine like the Colt-style ones than a magazine that tapers to a very narrow width at the top and only allows a little half moon window of cartridge case to appear at the center.

   • They do. It’s called a Vector. 🙂

   • They do. KelTech makes the Sub2000 with several Glock mag wells. And Mech Tech makes this: http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php. Just slap on top of your Glock and bam Glock mag pistol cal rifle. And because the Mech Tech is not a gun, no serial number and no FFL required.

   • You are absolutely not alone on this. There is the “Just Right” carbine (JR carbine) and Lone Wolf makes one as well… The JR carbines have major quality issues and Lone Wolf imports too much of their stuff. JP enterprises makes one as well, but I believe it is around $1600…

3. Another Departmental Toy? Free M-4s aren’t good enough for up-armored cops?

4. With the invention of the Sig brace I am pretty much over the pistol carbine. I can get a smaller gun firing a hotter round.

   Now if they came out with a 10mm carbine I’d be on that sumbitch like a cheap suit.

   • I believe Thureon Defense’s carbines come in a 10mm, Glock mag, version. It’s not a true AR, of course, because you cannot marry up their lower with someone else’s standard upper. It’s AR-style, though, and takes MP accessories. Gets pretty good reviews, including from Hicock45, as I recall.

   • http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php
     Mech Tech makes a carbine upper that will let you shoot 10mm from a Glock 20 or 21 frame, with the 10mm mag installed of course.

5. Given the price, why not buy the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 for $399.00?

   • Wait, you’re telling me that Kel-Tec long guns actually exist?

   • Unlikely to find a 399 glock S2K. Gunbroker shows finals in mid 500’s and higher.

     • I’m not sure about your math, but $500-$600 for Glock mag Sub2000 is still $300 less then the lowest MSRP of $990… $300 can buy a lot of 9mm rounds.

       • The only problem with the Kel-Tec sub200 is that it looks and feels and is cheap.
         If you compare the sub2000 and a stag arms 9L side by side you’ll for sure see the difference. I’ve shot Kel-tecs….not impressed. I’ll pay better than twice as much for the stag arms AR if I was in the market for a 9mm carbine, I’m not.

6. Left hand too, that is nice.

7. How about with a target crown and a thorsden stock, or spur for us in the communist republic of upstate NY….I have a 3hl as the base for one of my builds(now wears all a 12″ midwest rail bcm charging handle…the whole deal) and it is a slick rifle 1500 rounds and counting.

8. It’s weird, but I actually know of some ranges out here in Texas, both in Dallas and Houston, that have very strange rules that they follow to the letter, with no wiggle room as regards to logical exceptions. When their range says pistols only, they mean pistols only. A pistol caliber carbine is not allowed, even if you hear somebody firing off a Magnum Research BFR chambered in .300 Win Mag. At such ranges, this weapon would still not be allowed, because they said so.

   • From everything I’ve read over the years, it sounds like Texas has a lot of terrible ranges.

     Also Texans vastly overstate how pro-gun their laws are.

     • I cannot comment on the first statement but I can definitely vouch for the second. Such is the case of a lot of older southern states due to reconstruction and Jim crow.

     • Well, I’ve been inside indoor ranges in TX and VA during the past year. The ones in TX were very orderly, clean, and controlled, with range officers as well as controlled access. In VA, I was astonished how loose everything was, people everywhere with guns and targets, wandering without any controls. Everybody in VA seemed to be having fun, but to me it seemed like a novice could get really scared. TX, not so much. Just my .02.

     • It’s more a matter of Texans (shame on them!) not living up to the wildly unrealistic, T.V.-fueled fantasies of others regarding our gun laws. I don’t actually hear Texans regularly going around bragging about this or that. I do hear outsiders complain how surprised and disappointed they were to find they could not buy full auto firearms out of a vending machine in Texas, as they’d been led to believe.

       Texas ranks in the better, upper half of rankings of states’ firearms. Not too bad and better than most. Where we really shine is in the overall gun culture. That’s readily quantifiable is some respects, less so in others. For example, per capita, how many ranges do we have? How many FFL’s, whether storefronts or kitchen tables? How do our juries behave in DGU cases?

       Even just looking at the laws, there are laws and there is reality. Many states brag about being open carry. Yet, you go do it in an airport and you get arrested. In a park, and you get harrassed and a written warning. Eventually you get off, maybe even settle with the city, but that’s all a far, far cry from “It’s open carry, so come OC to your heart’s content with nary a care in the world!” B.S.

       Then there are silly little rules. Oregon is OC, how nice, but they recognize no other state’s licenses. Moreover, sales at gun shows require a background check, which means private sales are banned. Step outside and they’re legal. Step inside, they’re not. No such rule in Texas. Look at Wyoming, no license required to carry, as in mean old restrictive Texas. However, guns are banned by statute in Wyoming churches. Not so in Texas.

       Even the much vaunted Gunshine State of Florida, home of SYG and the first concealed carry law, has its shortcomings. Zimmerman’s case was open and closed by the local authorities, and rightly so, based on the evidence and the law. Ahhh…..but then reality, and politics, set in and GZ went through Hell. Sure, he was acquitted, eventually and by no means assuredly, but does that really reflect Florida’s vaunted pro-gun reputation? Meanwhile, in bad old restrictive Texas, Joe Horn shotguns two druggie illegal aliens in the back for burglarizing his neighbor’s house. Horn gets no-billed by the Grand Jury.

       We can parse everyone’s laws all day, no doubt. The point is that these things are much more nuanced than they at first appear, and sweeping generalizations, when details matter, are useless.

   • I can’t really speak about Dallas, because I’ve only been to a few of their ranges and only once each. In Houston, I’ve been to every range repeatedly. A couple are a little persnickety regarding rules, but I cannot think of one that wouldn’t allow a PCC. They would very likely question you about it as you walk in with the long gun case, because their indoor backstop isn’t suitable for rifles, but once told advised of the caliber, it should be ok. You never know and any given range, though; could depend on who’s working that day whether they’ll be unreasonable.

9. Pretty cool. Wish they used a re-designed lower with colt smg mags in mind so it doesn’t look so ugly.
   Also, I wouldn’t call 9mm superior at any distance. Bigger doesn’t always equal better.

10. If I’m reading this correctly, this is a gas operated 9mm. This is cool.

    I built a blowback 9mm to use suppressed. The bolt has added weight, as well as extra weight in the buffer. The mag well adapter also adds weight…at the end of the day, the tiny little 9mm SBR weighs a ton. Using a gas operated setup means lighter bits…and lighter is gooder.

    • I was wondering if anyone else picked up on that little nugget.

      I don’t believe I’ve ever seen/heard of a DI/gas-operated pistol-caliber AR.

      • I answered Doug’s post with some links in my post, and the links apparently sent my response into the Moderation queue. Having no idea when (or if) it may eventually appear, I’ll put this here instead.

        I guess we’ll have to wait until the company figures out if they are building a DI or blowback action. The Specs page for the Model 9 says gas-impingement (DI), the other three models (M9l, M9T, and M9TL) all say they are blowback actions. It would be really weird to offer both, so I’m thinking one or more of the pages may have typo errors. You can go to the company’s web page using the links in the article, and hit the New Products area to see the specs for each rifle.

        The Press Release may be buggered-up too, as it refers to a “carbine-length gas system”, AND a one piece bolt and carrier. Highly unlikely it has both, as one is part of a DI/gas-impingement action, and the other is characteristic of a blowback.

    • What’s really weird is the model 9 action is listed as “Semi-auto direct impingement”:

      http://www.stagarms.com/model-9/ (3rd line in product specs)

      while all the other models are listed as blowback:

      model 9L: http://www.stagarms.com/model-9l/

      model 9T: http://www.stagarms.com/model-9t/

      model 9TL: http://www.stagarms.com/model-9tl/

      Now I’m thinking this is some type of copy-and-pasted-the-.223-specs error on the model 9.

      Maybe someone from the company would like to shed some light on this?

11. I like it, but it will not replace the 16″ Uzi I have.

    I would love one in a pistol + brace combo. Whoever has the first affordable pistol caliber not-really-SBR will get my money. I saw Atlantic firearms with an mp5 style and then Sig has their MPX, but neither are really in the market I can afford.

12. Just received my latest tree killer rag G & A does a complete review of the “newest” Stag Arms in lefty and right hand 9mm they are prototypes not production with lots of issues but greater than anything ever made so line up now all you leftys… I’m confused where is my Ruger 9mm or my Marlin camp carbine both were panned years ago as being underpowered and not worth the time both functioned fine and were cheap! Does the high price suddenly make the 9mm a wounderful caliber? Ihave a Reisling sub gun in .45 I will match against the Stag anyday… Why would you test an unfinished prototype?

13. This has a gas system? I thought it was blowback operation.

    • I just visited all the links for the Model 9, 9L, 9T, and 9TL. The model 9 is listed as a DI action, but all the others are listed as blowback actions. This would be beyond weird, so I’m thinking there is a typo in one or more of the specs.

      I listed all the links for each model in the reply to Doug’s post above, but the reply went into Moderation, probably because of the links (TTAG’s software thinks it might be ad spam).

14. It seems something like this shouldn’t be over a G. I do own quality handguns but it seeks like rifles are always at least double the price. The beretta cx4 is an option but I feel the asking price w the required accessories is too high for what it is.

15. Guys, here are your 9mm glock magazine AR lowers:

    http://www.shop.doublediamondsupply.com/

    • I think those have been so far backordered they stopped taking orders like 6 months ago…

16. I had a Keltec sub2000. It was 350bucks. How do they justify those prices? Does gas operation make a 9mm travel 3000fps? Sure makes a250 or $300 HiPoint look good. What about the justright carbine?

17. Please make for m&p magazines….

18. Dont send any money to double diamond for glock lowers! Lots of drama there, the company filed for bankruptcy a few months ago. If you can get a ddles lower from a secondary site, gunbroker, etc you would be fine, but dont try to order one direct – theres a huge thread about the situation @ ar15 . Com.

    As for glock lowers, lone wolf has had them for years – last I checked, they werent even backordered anymore.

    If stag sells a lefty upper, it would be a winning combo with the lone wolf lower for leftys at least..

    glock mags/lefty/9mm/suppressed/sbr. Oh yeah!

    On everybody elses upper the bolt needs to be clearanced for glock mags, but no biggie.. adco & lone wolf both do the service..

19. JP enterprises JP15. dedicated glock lower (perhaps based on Lone wolf?). Mine runs awesome. I use it for short range 3gun matches and a practice rifle when I shoot intermediate distances on steel where I can’t shoot 223 because it’s too close.

20. Someone needs to make one of these in .357 SIG or 10mm. That would be fun.

21. For the price I think you are better off with a CX4 in .40 S&W or 9MM. Then you can swap with the PX4 pistols. But I know there are a lot of Glock guys on here. So YMMV. I think I just like the fact that the CX4 is built with that in mind from the ground up. Plus it comes ambidextrous out of the box.

    • If they’d build a CX4 carbine that took Glock 9mm mags, I’d buy two, pronto.

22. I am kind of a fan of pistol caliber carbines, for one reason the women in my house can control them as there is ZERO RECOIL. I have a Beretta M9 pistol, a CX4 Storm (with the Beretta M9 Mag. config) and a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 with the Beretta M9 Mag. set up. I love my Kel-Tec but not want to bet my life on it.

    Have been looking at old and new Colt 9mm ARs (I have a Colt AR15 A2 Sporter Circa 1984) and I am glad that somebody else is making them. Prices are all over the map, you can’t tell what is new and what is “new old stock”.

    I have shot my Beretta Storm and the Kel-Tec at 5 or 6 indoor ranges and never had a problem I always ask the manager is it alright to shoot a 9mm carbine and never had a NO, Maybe I am just persuasive,

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