https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3neDjBwq1Ow
Lindsey from Primary Weapons Systems gives us another rundown of one of PWS’s new products for 2015. Previously it was their GLOCK EDS, and this time around it’s a new rifle in their MK2 series called the MK212SD. As you’d expect from anything with “SD” at the end of its title, this rifle is designed to be run suppressed. In fact, the gas piston system is tuned such that it requires a silencer to cycle properly. What this means is less gas and softer cycling for a big reduction in recoil, and it’s likely a bit quieter and cleaner to boot. More details and photos follow . . .
As with all MK2 rifles, the standard package can be upgraded with fancy barrel options and/or a Geissele trigger.
Wow! It has the lightest rico-oil possible! I don’t know what that is but I want it!
I also noticed the Sig arm brace on a carbine length .308. Wwwwwwwwhy? In light of the latest ATF brainfart I guess they are trying to give those things away.
Oh! okay. They want to save you the tax on the 12.5 inch barrel. (just read the specs)
So if you permanently attach the suppressor then you don’t have to pay the tax?
The permanently attached supressor just adds to the length of the barrel, so you have a silenced SBR but the gun has an barrel langth plus supressor that doesn’t classify it as a pistol. Therefore you don’t need a tax stamp for a SBR, just the supressor. otherwise you would need both.
Then, why the arm brace?
Like he said: 12.5″ Barrel w/SB-15 arm brace = pistol = no tax stamp for the base firearm. Thus with the SB-15 brace, it’s a one stamp gun, for the can.
Put a stock on it, and it becomes an SBR = 2 stamps, 1 for the base gun, 1 for the can.
No, that is what I said. He said the barrel length plus the suppressor makes it not an SBR.
My point was, if you have to pay the stamp on the suppressor, then you might as well pay the stamp on the SBR too, because the waiting period is the PITA, not what essentially becomes an additional sales tax.
If I live for another 50 years and never buy anything described as a “weapons platform” I will have no regrets in that regard.
Always interesting to see what kind of comments pop up on these forums. In regard to your previous post on “why on earth would they have a SIG brace and make it a pistol” we’d developed the MK212SD-p well before the Friday revealing of the new BATFE letter. So we brought it on down to SHOT to which I say, Everyday I be a-shoulderin. And another poster is right…you could go out and buy the pistol version without a tax stamp. I’ll additionally add that you could then Form 1 the thing and still have something to play with while you’re waiting on approval. OR buy the SBR version! But what do I know, that’s just what I’d do.
This weapon system is for people who run suppressed weapons. If you like running a suppressed weapon, then maybe you already have a couple suppressors laying around you can attach to the MK212SD if you so choose. Or hey, maybe you go out and buy one just for it, after all, you really can’t have enough suppressors.
Other than that, all I have to say is: Becky, this thing is so totally wicked, like I can’t even stand it.
Well I am new to all this tacticool stuff so you have to understand that my questions are from an uneducated perspective looking for logic.
Can you apply for the SBR and suppressor at the same time?
If you are paying that much for a supressed “pistol” uh…I mean weapons system platform, then the extra $200 is negligible since you have to wait for your master to approve it anyway.
Am I missing something?
Tacticool or not, the MK212SD was developed by PWS after being specifically asked by Law Enforcement (think SWAT) and military units for a suppressed system that could also be utilized in CQB environments. Along with its compactness, you can see it being tested out to 800 yards at tactical-life.com, they have a video up. So the purpose or why? of the firearm should be answered now. An SBR that can be your SPR…tah-dah!
Buy your SBR and your suppressor at the same time and wait relatively the same amount to be approved. You can have several Form 4’s out at the same time. As far as $200 being a small amount in the scheme of things, I agree. Hence my previous answer that you could walk out of the store with the pistol, slap an already owned suppressor upon its sleek form and have some fun while waiting for a Form 1 to be approved. Or keep it a pistol if you don’t want NFA rules to apply. We’ll see what actually happens with the SIG brace. In order for anything to be approved as a pistol it needs to meet certain length requirements as well as able to be fired with one hand…the MK212SD-p passed these specifications or else it would not exist.
Thanks for the info. Just thinking logically here, most people don’t have a suppressor lying around. I took your sales pitch to be a package deal so to me, the arm brace looked very much out of place on a 20+ inch setup.
I understand that Shot Show does not cater to average Joe like me, but TTAG does, so I feel so inclined to voice my opinion here. What I am interested in is a 7-9″ barrel in 300BLK suppressed with a true stock and a handguard that covers all of it. If I am going to wait 6 months to a year for the suppressor, I might as well get the SBR approval process going at the same time.
As far as the 800 yard SPR goes, in .308, I will take the full length rifle over this 12″ “do it all”. Just doesn’t make sense that the military or police need a “one gun fits all” weapons platform even if such a weapon even exists.
I’m not trying to bust your chops here. I’m just like the little kid that cuts through all the BS and asks “Why?”.
Oh my God, Becky, like, look at this gun!
If you’re making fun of Lindsey, you shouldn’t. She may be bubbly and friendly, but she’s deeply knowledgeable on PWS’ product and firearms in general. She’s their head of marketing and branding and more than just a tall drink of water. I put her on the spot w/ the video camera and she did way better than I would. As soon as the camera turns on I start tripping over my words — t’aint easy.
You know what? You’re right.
It was a cheap shot at her speech patterns and an unfair one.
My apologies, Lindsey, should you ever read this.
Isn’t that the truth. I’ve had to stand in booths and give a spiel a few times, and things change when someone put a camera or a mic into your face. I have no problems in public speaking to real people, but as soon as there is some electronic device in my face, I start double and triple-guessing myself, with utterly predictable results.
She’s a pro to get that much information across that quickly with (what appeared to me) no edits.
LOL. Thanks Jeremy. Too used to being behind-the-scenes. I’ll work on a legit accent for next time…maybe then people will like me!!
It is so big.
Fist bump for getting a Sir-Mix-a-Lot reference.
Where are the Honey Badger copies dedicated supressed in 300AAC BLK? I guess 300AAC BLK is so last year. Guess I should go to Shot Show and find out for myself.
So lemme understand this Becky
Umm like If you pays your taxes get a stamp for having a silencer its OK to use a Sig arm brace, and shoulder the thing??
That would be one heck of an off balanced pistol otherwise.
Ok, question for all the arm chair lawyers. What if the chamber and barrel in fact do the supressing ?. Does this fall under the NFA? Suppressors need to be serialized and all that I have seen are seperate devices.
Yes. If there are features that specifically reduce the report of the gunshot then it’s a silencer. There are lots of integrally suppressed rifles and pistols where the barrel itself is the suppressor. I believe in those cases the receiver has the normal serial number and other info as the firearm and then there is a separate serial number and info for whatever is considered to be the silencer. That could be a barrel sleeve or the barrel itself, etc etc. Right now I’m actually writing up a blurb for my visit to AWC’s booth to check out some of their integrally suppressed stuff, but you can see it on video already HERE
Conversely, some firearms just happen to be really quiet. For instance, if you do a pistol caliber like 9mm on a rifle (especially if it’s not a semi-auto) with a long barrel, the gasses cool down enough and burn themselves out enough that the gun is pretty freakin’ quiet. Could easily be hearing safe in that sort of format. But… NOT a silencer under the law if it’s just a normal barrel without silencer features such as expansion chambers and whatever else.
Hey, can they lock the action on that $1700 ‘Hollywood Quiet” .22lr?
It’s a biathlon-style manual action, so it is locked. What you see in the video with her moving it by hand is how you have to do it when firing. Just a straight pull to the rear and then forwards again. It’s very slick and easy to do. Basically a straight-pull bolt action with a nice charging handle on the right side 🙂
Interesting to bring it up on this PWS post, because it’s actually a PWS firearm that AWC is putting its own integrally-suppressed barrel on. It’s a PWS Summit action, as seen here: http://primaryweapons.com/firearms/t3/#.VMWHSkfF-So
…in fact, I held and played with the entire T3 rifle as seen here (4th product) at the PWS booth and basically fell in love. The action is freakin’ cool, the carbon fiber barrel is really sexy, and it’s threaded. For the $799 MSRP, I might have a hard time staying away from it, as it would look pretty darn sweet with my Element 2 on the end and it would be dang quiet to boot. It was much lighter and handier than I expected it to be before I picked it up. As awesome as the integrally suppressed version is, considering the price difference and the fact that I already own a nice rimfire can, I’m seriously considering purchasing a complete PWS T3 Summit.
My concern here is wear and tear on the suppressor. If you have no choice but to run this gun with a suppressor, you essentially have created a rifle with an $800-$1000 consumable part (cost of suppressor plus tax stamp).
At the present time, few if any suppressor manufacturers offer a .30 rifle suppressor that can have its baffles serviced. Basically, when you burn it out, time for a new unit.
Add to the fact that to get the max bang for the buck, you need to run subsonic ammo and since 300 BLK came on the scene, subsonic .308 affords no advantage over subsonic 300 BLK and in fact is less consistent due to the variation in burn rate of the powder in the larger case.
What PWS should look into is some sort of optional muzzle device that would put a similar suppressor back pressure on the gas system that would enable this gun to run without a suppressor.
Eh, the gun seems kinda pointless IMO. Since what does it do that a regular AR-10 with adjustable gas system can’t?
On the other hand, who has a suppressor and doesn’t use it? Besides, suppressors last pretty long though I am worried with such a short barrel in 308. + when you wear out a suppressor all that happens is that it suppresses less which isnt’ a too big deal. Out of a good stainless steel/titanium suppressor you will have to fire many shots for it to wear out.
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