New From Shell Shock Technologies: NAS³ 9mm Nickel Alloy Shell Ammunition

1. That is difficult to believe. Will we have a test? Particularly variations in velocity of less than 1 fps.

   • I agree the number quoted does not pass my smell test. Even with hand-loaded ammo using a powder trickler, you’re not going to get that kind of consistency.

     • I agree on the bull sh!t extreme variation of 3 fps. I precision reload 260 and 308 and if I can get the SD under 10 I’m happy. So there is no way a mass produced cartridge can get a SD of 2 or less.

       • I’d like to see how cherry-picked that raw dataset was to get an SD of under 1fps, not to mention a an EV of 3.

         Independent testing paid for by whom exactly? Yeah right.

         Too many variances in powder, projectile weight, barrel buildup, and myriad other factors that make the claim very, very hard to believe if you’ve ever reloaded. Or have a brain.

       • Article say testing in a independent LAB not a production line. Google the Lab, they do an extensive amount of firearm and load testing. I’m not knocking your reloading proficiency but I think they have the ability to screen and measure each component, make them into more precise loads and accurately measure the results.

       • I’d like to see how their ammo performs over my chronograph. I don’t believe an SD that low. But I’d be happy to see it perform in independent tests.

       • Will, I appreciate that, but the problem is not my skills, it’s the combination of factors that all make up the granularity of a foot-per-second difference. Let alone less.

         As noted, there’s a whole bunch. I’m no reloading demi-god, but the reality is that a few pieces of powder burn differently from round to round. Each primer sends out a slightly different flame cone. Even measuring powder on a sub-grain scale, your load is subject to the scale, dust on the scale, etc. As well as the barrel itself, as it heats it expands, dimensions change by a few ten thousandths. That’ll give you a foot per second right there.

         Not to mention external factors such as heat, humidity, and elevation above sea level.

         Bottom line, if this lab somehow managed to generate those numbers, it’ll never come close happening in the real world under mass-production conditions. Not even close.

   • +1 to a TTAG test.
     I’d be interested in seeing how well their cases stand up to 9mm Major loads for USPSA Open class. And how reloadable they are after that.

     • *Summons Shooting The Bull 410 to perform his chronographed tests into ballistic gelatin*

       • +1

       • + another
         This product is intriguing though…

     • 32 reloads………. I’d like to try it

       https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGp0j4SIy2CMFRS9Q54xuVw

   • The secret ingredient to < 1 FPS lot variance is just vegetable oil though… all serious reloaders already know that.

2. I’m no expert, but wouldn’t it be easier to shave the weight off the gun itself than try to play around with saving a few grams in the mag? We’re talking about the cases here, most of the cartridge weight comes from the bullet.

   • Answer looking for question?

     • Maybe for civilian shooters who carry 5-20 rounds or are only at the range. For military use though, the weight savings over 600+ rounds of belted ammunition would be significant. The ability to mark ammunition so the type is visible from behind the gun in a belt rather than on the bullet is also beneficial for the military. Consider also scaling this up for larger ammunition – how much weight could an A-10 save for other ordnance and fuel?
       If nothing else the high number of reloads excites me. I’m definitely going to try these out.

       • True, if the weight claims scale, 50% of a 500 case loadout in 5.56 would be a savings of almost 5 lbs.

       • The A10 already uses aluminum-cased ammo, which is 1/3 the weight of the brass equivalent.

       • And the weight savings would increase with the size and weight of the case – so a load out of multiple .308 mags with 20 or 25 mags would be much lighter than standard brass. If it could scale up to .50 BMG, 25mm, and 30mm, the weight savings for military vehicles and aircraft would be huge.

   • If, as they claim, their cases are also cheaper than brass and reloadable for a much longer period than brass, it’s still a win and should find a market. I’m sure you’d need different dies for your reloading presses, but that’s a one time cost, and you’re reusing the rest of your set up, so I’d see it catching on.

     I want cheap ammo, and if this technology can help bring prices down, I’m all for it. Bring back the days of sub $0.10/round as a non-sale price for 9MM, I say. The cheaper the better.

     • I would just be happy if we could bring back the days of less than $.10 .22.

     • I prefer less expensive to cheap.

     • I really don’t care about weight savings measured in fractions of an ounce. What I do care about is cost savings. If I can cut my cost of rifle brass down significantly and reload those rifle cases more times firther lowering my cost, I’ll be extremely happy.

       Having different colored cases is a bonus.

3. Definitely interested in giving these a try.

4. very cool. If I did a lot of outdoor practice, I’d load up my practice ammo with these.

5. Too bad my range in CT, located less than 5 miles from Westport, does not permit steel-cased ammo. Of the irony.

   • Normally that’s due to the backstop being damaged by bi-metal projectile jackets. They don’t really care about the case, but 90% of steel case ammo has bi-metal jacketed bullets (steel jacket under copper jacket or copper plate) and it can cause sparks and do physical damage due to being harder. So they just blanked ban steel case ammo.

     I’m 99.99% confident you’d be GTG with this stuff as long as whatever bullets were loaded into the cases didn’t have a steel jacket. Steel cases are very easy to separate from brass with a magnet, so really a non-issue there.

     • Actually, they do care about the case because they intend to pick up all the brass from the floor and sell it to reloading companies.

       • It all gets run through a magnet anyway. As mentioned previously that aspect of it is a total non-issue. No reloading company would ever just assume that every case they get is reloadable brass. Despite range rules against steel cases, you’re still going to get steel cases, random crap, and aluminum cases. Those aren’t against the rules, by the way, yet are also not reloadable.

       • Yeah, but these guys will pay the same for these spent cases, too, so I’d think they’d be welcome.

       • Apparently they scoop it all up and sell it to a company that melts down the brass en mass, and they don’t want any steel or aluminum in the mix. I suspect aluminum is the real problem since it can’t be separated with a magnet, but to keep things simple the rule is now “brass only”.

6. Wow, this sounds pretty freaking awesome if they can really hit on all of the benefits they’re claiming. Reloader’s dream with cases that don’t stretch and fully return to proper shape, and for me being able to pick them up with a magnetic broom would be sweet.

   • Damn! Just went I was going to launch my Kickstarter for a brass magnet. I would have made millions!

   • But you can’t form them into different cases like you can brass. And the aluminum rear end sounds like a nightmare to keep the flash holes uniform.

     • All the more reason for TTAG to run a reloading test on these cases.

   • I know they stated that these wouldn’t stretch, are they supposed to not require resizing, as well? I was left with that impression, but going back I can’t find it. Because if resizing is not necessary, and trimming is not necessary, and they’re cheaper than brass, then piss on the cases, I want to buy their *stock*! They will replace all cases within a couple years.

7. “Unlike brass, unstable and unpredictable swings in copper prices do not effect NAS3 pricing.”

   What about unstable and unpredictable swings in nickel and aluminum?

   • I’d guess that the nickle content is like 8% or something low in that range. Is the price of aluminum as volatile? Actually, that isn’t too hard to answer and from a rough graph it looks like copper may have been fluctuating less over the last 5 years than aluminum:

     http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical_large.html#5years

     http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/aluminum_historical_large.html#5years

   • Waiting for California to impose an aluminum recycling deposit on the cases.

     • It wouldn’t surprise me a bit.

       • $20/round.

8. “fully-reloadable with SST’s custom reloading dies”
   Gotta wonder what’s different about those dies.

   For me, range brass is still cheaper. And 9mm is the most abundant caliber.

   • they note there are certain dimensional differences.

     Range Brass is hard to come by at least where I go shooting because pretty much everyone reloads and picks up.

     9mm is what I use the most. I am willing to give it a try.

     • Dimensional differences better be internal, not external, I don’t understand the need for custom dies, but dies were never a big part of my reloading costs.

   • The resize die is probably not full length, because they expect the base piece of the case to retain its shape.
     I doubt the crimp die would need to be special, and the seating die shouldn’t care about the case, since it only touches the bullet.

     • If it needs to be resized, how can it not stretch? I am under the delusion that the steel “cylinder” springs back to its original dimensions after firing.

   • That’s the answer to your question

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejK5I1iiUos

9. i don’t really see the usefulness of this. the brass isn’t where all the weight comes from, its what inside the brass. but i guess ifyou can cut any weight then thats a good thing, but still. seems over engineered for minimal gain.

   • If they can make it significantly cheaper than brass, it helps bring costs down on the end product. Also, if the steel is reloadable for a longer time period than brass, you get long term savings since you accumulate more and more casings to reload.

10. The question is ….”what price”.

    I went to the website (with TTAG Link) and there is no list of dealers.

    When you click on Technology you get a tech ad with the statement “More info coming soon”.

    If it’s even %50 more than regular stuff, I’ll pass. Brass has worked well for a long time.

    I can’t shoot well enough to need it. I was interested in the tech.

    • The press release above claims it costs less than brass: “The 9mm case is 50% lighter and costs significantly less than conventional brass cases.”

11. As I was reading the presser, I imagined that I was hearing

    “Hi! Billy Mays here for Shell Shock Technologies!

    “NAS3 cases will not split, chip, crack or grow! NAS3 cases eject cool to-the-touch and can be picked up with a magnet — they’re great for outdoor ranges! And if you’re not satisfied, SST will buy back spent cases from range operators for the same price per pound as brass cases!

    “It’s better than OxyClean!”

12. I’d give it a shot! *drumroll*

    Seriously though, with brass and (especially) copper being high demand metals in other growth industries like power transmission and electronics, a cheaper alternate that’s still reloadable and cheaper is 100% welcome in my book. And if their claims hold true, you could potentially reload the same “brass” for a LOOOOOONG time. I know that traditional brass casings have a finite amount of life as they stretch and thin, then eventually crack or rupture, and you hope it does that in the press, and not when you’re shooting it.

    So, the concept as presented sounds great, cheaper initial buy in, better/nearly identical performance to the existing technology, and a much longer reusable lifespan, and a much easier scavenging process: a stout broom handle, strong epoxy and a couple of packages of rare earth magnets, viola!, you can even get those handgun cases that ejected forward over the counter top into the dirt at outdoor ranges without making the RSOs cranky.

    As always, I’ll be willing to try it out myself and eagerly waiting for others to share their experiences.

13. —-I have used alum. cased 9mm and .357—-you can fell the difference in weight when you lift a box of fifty–

14. Wait a second here….the cases cost less than brass? Okay, fine.

    “SST will buy back spent cases from range operators for the same price per pound as brass cases.” Oh, and they’re willing to buy back the cases at the same price as brass cases?

    Wait a second…they’re going to sell the cases for less than brass cases, but buy them back at brass case prices.

    “All Shell Shock products come with a 24-month price guarantee and are proudly made in the USA!”

    And they’re going to do this for 2 years? Maybe it’s just me, but the math doesn’t add up. A start-up company is willing to sell you cases, buy back the empties at a cost greater than making new ones, and there’s a two-year price guarantee.

    Something’s fishy.

    • Michael, I think you have misinterpreted what SST has said. They will buy back their own used cases for the same price companies pay for used brass cases, not the price or cost of new or refurbished brass. I don’t know the exact numbers, but I imagine the effect is that they’ll make less money reprocessing their own cases but not lose any. And if their reprocessing costs are less than for brass, they may even come out ahead.

    • Ok. So theyre saying they’ll buy back their cases at normal brass BUY-BACK prices (ie what ranges normally get paid for selling back used brass) NOT at NEW brass prices. So If new brass costs $1 a piece (to keep things simple), and used brass is typically bought from ranges at $0.10. They could charge $0.90 for their new cases, still pay “the same” price for used cases ($0.10) as they would for used brass, and still leave a lot of room for profit in there.

    • They said they would pay the same price per pound as range brass. Range brass by the pound for 9mm is really really cheap. Reloading component companies buy it, roll size it, sell it for 4-5c a piece, and must make a profit. Additionally, their case is supposed to be much lighter which means they are going to get a lot more cases back than somebody buying brass cases. So to me it sounds like, sell it for a quarter, buy it back for like 1c, process it and sell it again for 20c. It is probably a better profit case than the original manufacture and sale.

15. Wow, there are a lot of claims in that spec sheet. If even half of it is true it would be pretty cool- reliable, longer lasting components AND cheaper? Sign me up. I don’t reload, but would consider starting under those conditions.

16. Custom loading data? From the outside it looks like the inside might have a different case capacity than a typical brass case (less powder?) I wonder if running these through standard dies would ruin them, but I’m not a reloader yet.

    • Nah, read the thing. It states that walls are thinner, case capacity is fractionally increased. Different loading data would be a player, but somebody would have it published almost instantly if everything else proves true.

17. “Eject cool to the touch” means that these cases are not removing heat from automatic weapons, one of the endearing features of brass cases.

    NAS3 should also be warned that aluminum chloride is severely corrosive to the AISI Type 3XX nickel stainless steels. This suggests that these cases should not be exposed to chloride salts, a common component of sweat.

    • What is the heat capacity of a brass case? How much does it actually remove, compared to dissipation from the barrel and the receiver?

    • I didn’t see the 3xx stainless in the article. These cases are magnetic…indicating they are probably in the 4xx series. Could be other series as well. Not all stainless steels react with all aluminum alloys.

18. I saw some of the questions posted above and reached out to Shell Shock:

    Q: How do they purchase and where?

    A: Right now, American Bullet has come out with loaded ammunition using the Shell Shock Tech casing technology. http://www.americanbullet.com
    It may not be up on their site yet but you can reach out to American Bullet’s Director of Sales, Kim Baliman at 308-235-2500 ext. 201. Only 9mm ammunition is available at this time.

    Regarding the reloading dies:
    There are two dies required to reload the NAS3 cases, a resizing die and a flaring die. NAS3 cases are manufactured in 2-parts which are held together by a high pressure compression joint. Conventional reloading dies can put undue stress on this joint. This is caused by the way cases are pulled by the head out of the resizing die. The pulling process can compromise the joint. To address this issue, Shell Shock designed a sizing die that incorporates a spring mechanism that pushes the case out of the die without damaging the case. A similar design is incorporated into the flaring die. This reloading technique puts no stress on the compression joint and does not damage the rim of the case. Shell Shock’s die sets will be available in early June and will be priced in line with other die sets available on the market. Shell Shock’s dies will work on most loading presses including Hornady, Lee and Dillon machinery. We will be posting a demonstration video of the reloading process.

    New NAS3 cases do not require sizing or flaring (less stations/operations on the loading machine), they are delivered sized and flared and ready for primer, powder drop, bullet drop and crimp.

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