New from Winchester: Win3Gun Competition Ammunition

1. Sweet. I will have to try this out (provided it’s priced similar to WWB) for some of the local Practical/Tactical matches.

   One question for those more in-the-know than myself: why offer a 147gr 9mm round instead of a 115gr (and on the heavier end of the spectrum for .40 and .45 as well)? Wouldn’t they want to run a lighter bullet to help reduce recoil?

   Also, Nick, the 5.56 round is listed twice toward the end of the article.

   Thanks for the heads up!

   • Power factor requirements, or so I’ve been told.

     Wondering if the 147 9mm is subsonic. Perhaps another suppressor ammo.

     • Remington subsonic JHP are excellent, though you can only find them in 147gr, they seem to have discontinued 167gr a few years ago.

     • power factor is correct. multiply the bullet grain by the velocity. must be 125,000 or greater for most scored competitions.

   • If you shoot a 115gr 9mm at around a 130 power factor (125 is needed to make minor) and then a 147gr at 130pf, the 147gr is moving slower and thus you get a much softer recoil impulse and muzzle climb. The recoil is supposedly more because of the heavier bullet, however its moving slow so it feels like less than a 115gr or a 124gr.

     • No. I run 167gr and 147gr Remington JHPs because I want what I shoot to die, die quickly. Period.

   • Is it possible that the heavier 9mm bullet helps ensure the steel goes down in a match? I thought I’d heard people, even Nick, talk about the steel not always falling with a 9mm, like if the bullet impact was down near the hinge, where you didn’t get the torque arm impulse from hitting way out at the edge. My recollection is those comments usually come from folks used to shooting .45ACP.

     • I don’t really know about competition shooting and its target problems. I just run the heaviest jacketed hollow points I can get because I want my targets to go down with massive, fatal internal damage. For plinking/target shooting I use cheap 115gr FMJs. I do more stress training, elevated heart rate and breathing, moving targets, that sort of thing. I am just hoping these new Winchester rds will feed well in my Walther.

2. Its nice that they are coming out with more ammo. It would be better though if they were able to meet demand for the standard ammo first.

   • I couldn’t agree more.

     And this looks a little too gimmicky to me — finding ammo for competition that is reliable, meets PF, and is sufficiently accurate isn’t exactly difficult. And not to be too snarky, but if you’re at a competitive level where off the shelf ammo isn’t accurate enough 3 gun, or IDPA or IPSC or whatever your game is, you’re already rolling your own.

     • To me, it looks like a “clean fire” ammo with upscale marketing and a somewhat limited selection of calibers and round weights.

       Don’t get me wrong, I love for instance Speer Lawman TMJ Cleanfire, which has the same basic features. It shoots a LOT cleaner in my experience, and that translates to longer sessions and less cleaning chores afterwards.

       My big question, though, is how much does it cost – or rather, how much more is Winchester going to try to sell it for?

   • Forget the ammo production, I’d settle for just the bullets.

3. Going to pick up some of that 9mm, see how it cycles in my Walther. Large aperture hollow points like Golden Saber tend to hang on the feed ramp. Remington JHP rds do the best, I’ll have to give Win a test drive!

4. Just wondering, I’m not a 3 gun guy, what are “power factor requirements?”

   Is it like you have to shoot certain bullet weights and/or calibers to stay in a certain class, like weight classes in boxing, or something that affect?

   If so, is that to stop people from coming in with crazy, off the wall, weights/loadings, basically not allowing a competitive edge?

   • …to stop people from coming in with crazy, off the wall, weights/loadings…?
     AFAIK yes, to be sure that everyone is dealing with a realistic recoil level for the caliber.

     • Actually, it is for uniform consistency across a wide spectrum of weapons. Nothing else. Damned sure ain’t for maximum killing/damaging effect. That is my only measure in a CQC weapon cartridge.

5. Yeah, it keeps people from loading down their rounds too much in order to reduce/eliminate recoil. Otherwise, folks use impractically underpowered ammo. The heavier boolitz also have favorable recoil. More a shove than a snap.

6. “One question for those more in-the-know than myself: why offer a 147gr 9mm round instead of a 115gr (and on the heavier end of the spectrum for .40 and .45 as well)? Wouldn’t they want to run a lighter bullet to help reduce recoil?”

   It is the fast and snappy vs slow and steady argument.
   115’s give the perceived feel of a snappy fast recoil 115gr@ 1185 = PF138
   147’s a slower softer feel. 147gr@980 = PF140

7. But will they guarantee that their ammo will make power factor?

   If they stand behind this stuff with a “makes power factor or we will pay your match fees” guarantee, then I’ll be interested. Otherwise, it strikes me as a marketing tool that’s mostly beneficial to people who don’t check their match ammo on a chronograph.

8. Isn’t the common 9mm minimum power factor 125, and major 165 (38 super etc)?

   Why 140? For shorter barrels?

   • The velocity specs on the package are under optimal conditions. There are many things that affect velocity such as barrel length, chamber tolerances, action type and even lubrication. To ensure your pistol and ammo combination meets a certain power factor you should always use a chronograph.

9. This is marketing spark plugs to NASCAR drivers. How about some 22 lr and wmr for crying out loud?

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