New York State Files Charges Against NRA for Selling Insurance Without a License

1. As an insurance agent, I don’t understand how its possible for the NRA to sell insurance to its members without a license.

   1. How can the backing insurance company allow it? I have to submit a license to the insurance company before doing business in any state.

   2. If true, how did they think they could get away with it?

   • @d: If the NRA was underwriting the policies, then I would think they would be required to have a license to sell. But if they are merely acting as a solicitor or referral agent, then a license may not be required. Their choice for an attorney makes one wonder.

     • The lawyer, Brewer, by some strange coincidence is the brother-in-law and son-in-law of the Ackerman McQueen execs — the PR company the NRA was spending tens of millions a year to. You’d think that an organization that regularly fought for gun rights in the courts would have staff lawyers instead of outside counsel that they pay millions to a year. He’s also been booted from the Federal court for the Eastern District of Virginia, where NRA HQ is. Nepotism and cronyism seems to be the SOP at today’s NRA instead of competence and passion for the cause. Look to FPC to see how an organization can put together a team of lawyers who fight for 2A rights.

   • The insurance was endorsed by the NRA, promoted to its members. It wasn’t sold by them. A lot of people have an AARP Medicare Advantage plan but AARP is not an insurance company. My folks had an AARP car insurance policy; it was sold by Hartford.

     • Exactly this

     • AARP is an approved bunch of progs/followers.

       • amac may be better.

       • They are shameless. AARP turns a billion dollars a year selling their version of the “Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval” and stills shakes the cup better than a subway bum looking for contributions to their “foundation”.

     • AARP: Left wing jackasses.

2. Yeah, it’s political but it’s also about money.

   Which is more important to the state probably varies by the day of the week but you can be assured that the licensure has nothing g to do with ensure that “safe, high quality products” are on the market. At best it’s about applying a vig.

   Could be worse though I guess. Hillsborough County, Florida just spend a bunch of time and money to “sting” handymen by soliciting their services on social media for various jobs and then badgering them into doing “unlicensed” work by repeatedly requesting more work be done, which wasn’t in the initial agreement, after the person showed up and started actually working. 118 arrests of dangerous “unlicensed” individuals.

   Just another flavor of the same shit sandwich.

   • TTAG is acting weird (again).

     For some damn reason, my reply ended up below…

   • “Yeah, it’s political but it’s also about money.

     Which is more important to the state probably varies by the day of the week but you can be assured that the licensure has nothing g to do with ensure that “safe, high quality products” are on the market. At best it’s about applying a vig.”

     More on point than you may know. Ride share services — Uber n Lyft — couldn’t get permitted — more like had threat of prosecution n enforcement holding up other business licensing — until the “protection” of drivers n riders was ensured. That means that an accepable, mandatory “insurance” scheme for just that kind of business was developed. You wanna play, you gotta play. Of course they got dispensation to operate in NYC while this shook out (or shook down?) Can’t inconvenience the Nomenklatura.

     Moving parts…

     — “Issue” spearheaded by the insurance industry. Yes, top-tier contributors at state level. (“Education”, “govt workers” and lawyers make up the fab 4. Teamsters and similar are still in there; tradition and all, but don’t have the money to be the top contributors any more.)

     — “Safety” need for regulation jumped on by the Gatekeeprs a the District Capitol. (“Safety” works well for htem lately. No frakking for you. Or pipelines. Or natural gas distribution. Or new energy distribution trunks. It might not be safe. Or SAFE. Wind farms of massive, sketchy monopod versions of alien “tripods” are of course, safe. Also state initiatives. Also, no problems here. What’s a few raptors, or health-disrupting ULF sound, or e-waste n fiberglass disposal problems?)

     — Shockingly, the solution is a mandated insurance requirement.

     Net: somebody was gonna be doing people some good, n maybe making money without Governor Soprano getting his cut. So, invoke his co-conspirators to create an issue, n they become collectors delivering his cut as campaign contributions, issues advocacy, n red-lining / denial of the product to people who need to be taught a lesson. Yes, they take orders.

     NRA was in Proconsul Cuomo the Younger’s crosshairs hard from the day they declined to cheer the SAFE act. You don’t play ball, your’re on the menu. “Insurance” in NYS is one of the directly connected agents n co-conspirators of the governing crime family’s organization.

     This is very, very developed in NY State. They’ve been doing it for centuries.

     • Does Vladdie have to do a recaptcha for his screeds?

       Asking because his volume, when he’s on the clock, is way too high if he has to click on all the things n past the magic hash, to get each installment accepted.

       • Well, half the sht he posted was straight up copy+paste from various forums, so that saves time.

         I realized this when he tried to talk like he knew the Star B/BM back to front and I recognized the word for word copying of a forum post I’d read years back. It jumped out to me because I remembered thinking when I originally read it “Jesus, this poster is an idiot. How do you have this gun in your posession and still ask such stupid questions when just looking at the parts would answer this?”.

3. Don’t do the crime if you can’t pay the fine. Yeah I think there should be a law against selling insurance without a back ground check, for sure.

   • NRA didn’t offer insurance. They promoted a product from somebody else.

     Prosecutors n regulators, with infinite budget, are going to try to position that *referring to a product that you don’t sell* counts the same as *selling.* In their own “court.”(*)

     — With the Governor n state administration raining jury tampering down from their bully pulpit
     .
     — While any pretext for further malicious prosecution they find in their fishing expedition investigations gets handed to other agencies; catalyzing more rounds of the same.

     — Meanshile, injunctions, “prudential” freezes on financial operations, gag orders, and so on shut down all the ongoing operations they can get at.

     That NRA sold insurance is not proven. If their promotion and advocacy can be willfully construed to count as “sale” is yet to be ruled. And the process is the punishment.

     (*) Like trying to make Bushmaster liable for whack-job’s school shooting whack-jobbery, after stealing the guns used, that weren’t sold by BM anyway. BUT, there was shoot-em-up drama n people in camo in some ads, so…

     • Also, I’m still not a bot.

       tl:dr
       A coment system making you look dumb while making a “pro-” point is a kind of automated advocacy. My tinfoil hat is getting out of control. Could you please stop feeding it.

       /Really, “Suspicious Content” based on what?
       Not that tinfoil hats are a good look for me, but… If “pro-” comments contain no stucture, punctuation, formatting, n similar, *the posters look dumber*, and *the content is less compelling.* Making “pro-” comments with formatting & etc. jump throught the recaptcha hoops makes people less likely to do the work to post them.

       Vladdie’s stuff gets through just fine. When I have something to say more organized than “Bang, pew — woo!”, I gotta pick out the penguins in the carpark pictures.

4. The more I hear about New York, the more it makes it likely that I’ll never set foot in that state.

   • There are some great reasons to be in upstate. The down side is upstate in in NYS. And The Overlords are constantly looking to up their vig, to take a chunk of the upstate advantages they don’t create.

     The down-staters sometimes threaten to “secede” because we’re both backward and ungrateful up here. The Useful Idiots are always shocked when we say: “OK, let’s do this.” They’re so cute. The Overlords never suggest that — they’re too smart, and their payoff is lording it over as much and many as they can lord over. Secession by or from the ungrateful decreases their span of abuse, so why would they?

   • Come to upstate, it’s beautiful here. It’s NYC that poisons the well. Most of what those idiots do is ignored up here anyway.

5. Sounds pretty dumb not to have your permission slips in order first.

   You feel like checking out the stars in New York City? They have a stargazing permit for that.

6. Sounds like this.

   https://goingconcern.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/dumpsterfire-1.jpg

7. Having sold insurance decades ago I KNOW ya’ gotta’ be legal😃

8. Yeah nothing political about this.

9. The question I keep asking is, why are they still incorporated in NY?!

   That state hates the ever loving ground on which they stand.

   MOVE!!!

10. “Could be worse though I guess. Hillsborough County, Florida just spend a bunch of time and money to “sting” handymen by soliciting their services on social media for various jobs and then badgering them into doing “unlicensed” work by repeatedly requesting more work be done, which wasn’t in the initial agreement, after the person showed up and started actually working. 118 arrests of dangerous “unlicensed” individuals.”

    Ah, Hillsborough County. That’s Tampa.

    I’m not defending what they did, but Florida has a legitimate problem with people being ripped-off by fraudulent contractors. It’s a many-millons of dollars business down here, mostly done to the retirees and fixed-income folks trying to get work done on the cheap. The blue hairs get ripped-off and then complain to the TV stations like channel 8’s “Eight on Your Side” consumer reporters, and that puts real pressure on the police to “Do something about it!”.

    I guess I’d call it “low-effort” law enforcement, if anything…

    • There was a whole article about this where it was explained the the real con artists who were a problem are too sophisticated for this system to catch them.

      So, they’d get a handyman to the house and badger him to do something like “take a look” at a toilet and when he agreed they claimed he was agreeing to do unlicensed plumbing work.

      They’re charging these guys with a misdemeanor that carrys up to $1000 fine and a year in the clink. They drop the jail time in exchange for the fine and the defendant pays court costs. So, essentially, it’s a free G for the government for each person arrested.

      They’re advertising it as a big win for public “safety” and pocketing over $100K. That’s not just lazy policing, it is that, but it’s also a straight up shakedown.

      • Carries. Not carrys or fucking Carrie’s. Goddamn autocorrect.

        • Neither autofill nor autocorrect are you’re Friday.

      • So, they’d get a handyman to the house and badger him to do something like “take a look” at a toilet and when he agreed they claimed he was agreeing to do unlicensed plumbing work.

        Exactly. So entrapment, and an expansive defintion of “work.” But, the threat is the possible prosecution — they have infinite resources, or you can get out from under for $1,000.

        You gotta go to court to get it thrown out, and what does that take. You’re trying to work, while the people against you get paid for being in litigation. It’s called “lawfare.”

        The countermeasure is Trade Guilds and Professional Assocaitions, as mutual support pacts. One guy can’t afford to take this kind of thing on, but a guild can, and it makes a precedent. Add in one-issue votes by the entire guild against the prosecutor, and anyone who supported or appointed them, and… (“Professions” that have guilds, n pay off a little up front, don’t get targeted this way: lawyers, accountants, realtors, medical professionals.)

        • Florida has *lots* of lawyers happy to take that case on a percentage basis, since those guys have no money. Hell, John “For the People” Morgan, one of the biggest of those vampires would probably *love* to take this one, just to embarrass the Hillsborough DA…

          (NOTE – This is *not* a personal endorsement, these lawyers as a group are SCUM. But this guy swings some *serious* weight in Florida)

          https://www.forthepeople.com/attorneys/john-morgan/

        • I agree that a trade association COULD serve as a mutual defense pact.

          Unfortunately, the “guilds” were also a form of oligopoly control. “Let’s all us master cobblers get together and fix prices for shoes and fix wages for journeymen and apprentices.”

          My sense is that if we cultivated a system of a few competing “guilds” (e.g., the Benevolent Brotherhood of Cobblers plus the Worshipful Women Shoemakers, etc.) and did away with most government regulation we would have a better system. If one guild did a better job of balancing their monopoly power with quality control then its members would reap the bulk of consumer patronage.

          Yes, we would pay for regulation in the form of higher prices for shoes and lower wages for journeymen and apprentices. Yet, the “payment” for that regulation would be what we would choose for ourselves.

          Government regulation is paid for by taxes and higher cost of doing business where industry lobbyists have to pay patronage to legislators to preserve their industry oligopoly.

      • “They’re charging these guys with a misdemeanor that carrys up to $1000 fine and a year in the clink. They drop the jail time in exchange for the fine and the defendant pays court costs. So, essentially, it’s a free G for the government for each person arrested.”

        Your initial comment was the first I’d heard of this particular shakedown.

        If it is how you describe (and I don’t doubt it in the least), they guys getting charged need to get together with a local lawyer who will take the case on a commission basis and sue the fuck out of the Tampa PD. Use the evidence the cops gathered to prove it was organized. Show the jury the badgering. I think they have a solid case they can peruse. But unfortunately, it will have to be a “no collection-no fee” lawyer, since those guys likely have zero money to fight it. But a young lawyer who wants to make a name for themselves should jump all over this one…

        • If reporting is correct it was the sheriff’s office that ran this little “op”.

          This isn’t the original article that I read on it but it’s quite similar: https://reason.com/2020/02/05/undercover-cops-hired-118-handymen-then-arrested-them-all-for-not-having-licenses/

11. James Campbell doesn’t need concealed carry insurance, concealed carry insurance needs James Campbell!!

    • Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but thanks for trying.

      • Perhaps you are completely oblivious to the way you come off here, but those criticizing you have valid points…

        • “Perhaps you are completely oblivious to the way you come off here, but those criticizing you have valid points…”

          And that could be because of the months spent last year being accused of not being factual while commenting on TTAG.
          Comment how I purchase a gift gun, be called a liar by trolls.
          Comment on a TTAG story on shooting big bore guns, comment on shooting my MK XIX DEagle 50AE, be called a liar by trolls.
          Comment on purchasing AR-10s and AUG, be called a red flag threat.
          The list goes on and on.
          Things will eventually settle, but for the time being I enjoy stuffing it to the trolls who dwell in basements, and can’t stop playing with their keyboards and start building their lives.

        • You are unstable and should not have access to guns.

12. Change a few words, and you get this:

    New York’s [taxpayers] filed civil charges accusing [Coumo] of [giving tax dollars] to [Puerto Rico] without [voter approval] and concealing how [he] routinely kept some of their [tax dollars] for [himself].

    One can hope, right?

    • *giving more tax dollars to Puerto Rico. Pretty sure this is the third round of aid but hell could be the fourth.

13. So people like Governor Cuomo support the idea of requiring liability insurance for gun owners. But when a company comes along and offers insurance coverage for legal expenses in self-defense cases, that defies the tyrants’ plans.

    You can’t have the rake off going to the wrong people, otherwise what’s the point.

    • You can’t have a successful patronage system if people can succeed without it.

14. You can tell when the comment discussion moves toward real understanding, and actionable ideas around gunny things — the trolls show up en masse to pollute the conversation.

    — Shut it down among the discussing folk.
    — Drown it out with nonsense. Dirty it up with disqualifying statements. (Notice how the blatantly racist, mysogynist, and ant-semetic comments show up when there’s a meaningful, actionable issue being discussed. It’s false-flagging.)

    As the saying goes “If you’re taking flak, you must be over the target.” Maybe also “If you’re on target, they gotta dirty up your ordinance.” Exposing and recognizing the lawfare n hired thuggery of administrations like Proconsul Cuomo’s in NY is a bad look for the anti-people.

    The anti-people dispatch the flying monkeys to obscure what they can. Notice also how the paid trolls respond to replies that take their bait, but don’t to replies that dump their arguments. The countermeasure is recognize, name, n make your points. So,

    — Look, Troll-y McAtsro-Troll cut and pasting the order of the day. (Do they pay you good, for what you do?)

    — Lawfare is a way of life in NY: this is no exception. They wouldn’t bother if the service didn’t do some good: nothing there to extort. In contrat, look what happens when you let more people keep more of the benefits they make for others… employment, wages, etc. Maybe NY State wouldn’t have so many people fleeing if they were a bit less heavy handed in their grift and graft? But maybe they can’t. All those astro-keyboard warriors are expensive, even at $1.73 each.

15. A notion about NY State… NYC’s economy becomes more precarious.

    /Now, I don’t want to get off on a rant here, but…
    Downstaters, anchored in NYC have huge per-capita incomes, and gripe about “funds” flowing from there to upstate. (Interesting accounting. More interesting that upstaters who aren’t part of the administrative apparatus are consistently, vocally fine with “Take your regulations and your money and butt out.”)

    They’ve done a good job of driving out economic activity in upsate, creating dependency. Driving out manufacturing, gun makers in particular. Banning frakking, gas pipelines, n distribution. Etc.

    Here’s the thing: there’s no reason but inertia for all that financial work to stay in NYC.

    — 9/11 motivated n has demonstrated that a lot of the financial work could move elsewhere just fine; even better a bunch of ways.

    — London, one of the world financial capitols, is out from under the EU, now. It’s a finance-activity engine already. How much more attractive now?

    There’s every reason for much of the high-paying work done by the NYC Clerisy (or Nomenklatura if you prefer) to go elsewhere. They what will they do? Proconsul Cuomo the Younger n his crew don’t work for nothing: none of The Screaming D’s do.

    That’s on top of Hizzhonor De BoBo’s machinations. Or the lovely demonstration provided by the two of them (plus Chiquita Guevara), driving out a bought and paid for flood of those sweet, sweet Ama-buck. Startup NY was a dud (shocking noone.) The Imperial Seat managed to crush a *federally supported * photonics institute in upstate, by Grabbing All the Graft to run through their SUNY Polytechnic racket. The point man on that got prosecuted; left with only his million-dollar academic position while the wheels grind. But really, who wants to be the button man if you can get prosecuted?

    When you don’t allow anything productive to work, there’s nothing to graft off of. What do you do when there’s not enough graft to pay your mooks? Some folks will even consider honest work, n discover t hat absent the boss’scut, it actually works much better.

16. And gee whiz, to think TTAG used to run adds and promote the insurance. Grape or Cherry what flavor Kool aid

    • The checks TTAG got for running those ads didn’t bounce, and the ads were gun related.

      I’m not inclined to give TTAG any crap about that…

17. It’s time for the bastards and bitches who run the NRA to go to jail. Theses arrogant people don’t care at all about gun civil rights. They only care about using the NRA as a way to sell and buy very expensive gun collections.
    As a conservative want them in jail if the state can prove their case. If they are innocent they certainly have the $$$ to pay for the best defense.

18. Wayne would authorize any crazy idea to pull in more money to pay for his corrupt and high falutin life style.

    My preferred outcome would be NY State Attorney banning Wayne La Pierre from any sort of involvement in any sort of non-profit. After that, move the NRA’s state of registration the hell out of New York State!

19. The accident and other insurances presented to me by the NRA are not sold by the NRA. My Plan F Medicare supplemental insurance is through Transamerica.

20. I can’t wait for NY State Government to go bankrupt.

21. It’s time for the (edit) and the (edit) who run the NRA to go to jail. Theses arrogant people don’t care at all about gun civil rights. They only care about using the NRA as a way to sell and buy very expensive gun collections. It seems they believe they don’t have to follow the law like everyone else.
    As a conservative I want them in jail if the state can prove their case. If they are innocent they certainly have the $$$ to pay for the best defense.

    There I fixed it.
    (smile)

22. Well for as New York they can shit in one hand and put their wants in the other and see which one gets the fullest .

23. The NRA carry guard was indeed an insurance product.
    None of the other “carry insurance” providers actually offer insurance.
    They are a pre paid legal services agreement.
    So technically they are not under the supervision of an insurance commission.

    NY is harassing the other companies by sending letters forbidding them from covering citizens of NY.
    Most have folded as they are not deep pocket enough to take on the state with its infinite legal resources.
    It’s just easier and cheaper to not sell in NY

24. So… They want gun owners to have to buy insurance, but then they sue the company that is advertising insurance that gun owners can purchase? Anti-gunner’s logic is extremely painful for my brain to comprehend.

25. The Firearm firm is dedicated to defending the 2nd Amendment rights of all in Florida. We strive to ensure that the rights enshrined in the constitution, by our founding fathers, are not infringed.

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