“The Constitution’s a sacred document, but it is not a suicide pact. This is not hard for me. Due process is important, but at the end of the day, we are at war.” That’s a quote from South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham regarding his support for the “No Fly, No Buy” bills that failed in Congress. nytimes.com writer Carl Hulse highlighted Graham’s willingness indeed enthusiasm for throwing the Constitution under the proverbial bus in his article Gun Control Wall, Bolstered by Republicans, Shows a Crack.
It’s an entirely dubious theory, based entirely on the fact that some Republicans voted for their own “compromise” bills placing Americans on the government’s secret, unaccountable Terrorist Watch List; bills that made a stab at inserting due process into the deeply unconstitutional concept.
[Senator Mitch McConnell] allowed a competing alternative by Senator Ron Johnson, Republican of Wisconsin, that probably siphoned Republican votes from the Collins plan. But the votes exposed a small universe of Republican senators who might eventually be willing to support gun restrictions in the interest of preventing terrorism, perhaps enough to eventually push a compromise proposal to the hallowed 60-vote level.
“The fact that terrorism has become intertwined with the gun issue puts greater pressure on Republican senators and Senator McConnell to get something done,” [New York Senator Chuck] Schumer said.
“Might eventually be willing?” Hulse is seeing things. But at least he saw one thing clearly: by voting against the compromise bill, Democrats placed political concerns above their concerns about “gun safety.” Like this:
As the Collins proposal gained steam after the defeat of other, more partisan proposals, Democrats discussed opposing it. They worried that strong Democratic backing would allow a handful of embattled Republicans the opportunity to cast a politically helpful gun safety vote even though no legislation would pass — an opportunity to “get well” on guns as it is known.
And so the compromise bill died, leaving both pro-gun rights Republicans and anti-gun right Democrats pretty much where they started. Gridlock! As designed by the Founding Fathers to prevent legislators from doing stupid things like removing rights from citizens without due process.
As for Hulse’s summation — “Perceiving a shift in congressional sentiment and a distinct political advantage, gun control advocates are not about to give up now” — I’ll leave you with a British aphorism: pull the other one, it’s got bells on it.
Lindsay Graham? Oh, I thought they said that Republicans were caving.
Carry on.
Ring a bell. Right answer the very first comment.
No kidding. The guy is a rino at best.
Haha. That’s funny. He makes trump look like a hardliner.
Biggest RINO in South Carolina. Glad I never voted for him, and never will the next time he is up for reelection.
The Orlando shooting hit too close to home for dear old Lindsay.
That IS FUNNY! I wish my Dad was still alive he would be laughing his butt off right now. He always said that about him.
The Constitution’s a sacred document, but …
Due process is important, but …
Lindsey Graham calls himself a Republican, but …
He took an oath to preserve, protect and defend our Constitution, but …
There are two parties, one which enthusiastically violates The Constitution to suit their agenda, and the other which enthusiastically violates The Constitution to suit their agenda.
The rest is kabuki theater.
There are 2 parties like there are 2 soda companies, coke and pepsi. But they are way more similar then they are different.
There is Conservatism, and there is FU.
Nobody does FU like Conservatives, and you haven’t seen it yet.
Which is why I drink Dr. Pepper.
It may be that there’s some happy Conservative-branded FU due.
There is one party. The Green Party. The money party. These senators are waiting to see who contributes more to the PACs, Bloomberg or the NRA. They will vote accordingly. Of course, they will funnel bigger percentages of the money with which senator can be re-elected by their constituents in spite of voting for gun control. As stated above, all Kabuki theater.
Which is why I drink ale.
“Do you really want to live in a world without Coca-Cola?” – Walter White
“Do you really want to live in a world without Coca-Cola?” – Walter White
“Yes.”– Tim White
Joe R. Still waiting for that FU. Been waiting since the election of Bonzo the Chimp. Do tell, when is it coming?
Proving once again that when politicians say that they “support the constitution, but…”
Everything before the “but” is bullshit.
Let’s try that formula out on a couple other subjects, shall we?
“I believe Rape is wrong, but…”
“I don’t believe in slavery, but…”
“I think blacks are equal to white in most ways, but…”
Yeah… its simple misdirection by simple scumbags 100% of the time.
Jackass also claims to be a military officer. But he actually is a Air Farce REMF (redundant) JAG (lawyer) with a direct commission (being a lawyer). But he did have to take a commissioning oath to the Constitution. Which he has violated many times. Useless Bastard.
Quit voting these people back in office year after year. Vote for someone else ESPECIALLY after something like this. Some Oklahoman politicians are going to learn this the hard way after allowing some carry bills to die in committee rather than upset their favorite sports team.
I keep imploring people to bury or hide some of their firearms and ammo and expect the thugs to be knocking on the door soon . I keep hearing people say things like , let them try , from my cold dead hands , bring it on and it’s time to fight . I contend the time to fight has passed and there are now enough gun haters or mind numbed main stream media followers , or politically correct wannabes or victims that our position is now marginalized to the back seat and we are just waiting for the OK from DC to roll . The orders will come from either Clinton or Trump , I personally don’t think it matters . The Marxist Clintonistas or the Neo-National Socialist Trumpster . Our guns are being coveted for power consolidation and control .
What’s the point in hiding them if your not willing to use them?
While serving in Germany my landlord’s dad brought out a 32acp he had hidden from the Nazis. I asked him why. He said so I could have it if I needed it. I asked him if he didn’t need it then.
Head down and no answer was all I needed to see that aint the path
How can you use them if they take them ?
Are you going to open fire on 5 , 10 , 20 government agents or law enforcement officers that come to take your guns ?
Are your neighbors , fellow gun owners , going to be with you when the knock on the door comes ?
Are you going to start an uprising among fellow gun owners to overthrow the government ?
Are you going to start a political campaign or an organization that will turn back the confiscation movement ?
Are you prepared to die in vain for your right to keep and bare arms ? ………….. because opening fire on the ones coming to take your guns is futile at best and would most assuredly be in vain . They won’t announce their intentions months or years advance and they won’t come all at once after you and I and other gun owners have had an opportunity to organize a resistance . Tre will not be 10 or 20 armed people with you when they knock on the door . You will not organize a stronger organization than the NRA or start an uprising to quell the coming storm . They will come in bits and pieces , like they always do and before you know what has happened , you will either dead , imprisoned or sitting without any firearms , remembering my comment and I , well let’s just say I am better prepared for the possible inevitability than you .
My answer to that has been, and always will be, “If it’s time to bury your arms, it is long past time to dig them up.”
Same comment for you as above .
I understand your zeal and machismo and even grant you the possibility of a fortunate outcome as you dream about but reality , however uncomfortable as it may be , is still reality .
Note I did not advocate hiding all your firearms , I certainly have not , but instead of buying those burger meals , watching those stupid movies and taking those wasteful vacations , buying that RV or boat or what ever else u may be splurging your resources on . Go buy yourself a few extra long guns , a couple reliable hand guns and about 5000 rounds of ammo and put them safely and properly in hiding .
If you can’t afford to , then you can’t afford to . I just personally think it is prudent , while you can still private sell a gun without documentation .
I didn’t say I didn’t have anything tucked away but rather than as a hide for a fallback and resupply.
Am I willing to die? Yes there are points and lines that I made up my mind 35 years ago as a teen that I am not willing to live with. They have shifted some based on things that were happening as mission dictates.
A fight doesn’t bother me as it’s part of my daily life even with uneven odds. Just another day “at the office.”
In vain? Possibly, seen dumber deaths I suppose and more worthy but it’s all perspective.
I respect your choices on it and perhaps our backgrounds are different. Staying alive isn’t the end goal with me as it will end. If I can’t live a certain way then to me its not a hard choice. It’s perhaps a failure of mine as a “survivalist”. You probably have a certain thought chain on life that we don’t share. I could even be wrong.
Understand and remember you don’t know exactly who you chatting with either. I could be “the man” you fear. It won’t be me doing those things and I have made sure I’m in a position to ensure it won’t but again not in the way you have.
To Mark S. I say this… There are over 300million guns in the US. How many do you think are actually registered? And still with the owner that the government thinks it is? Also if they start going door to door, I think you are going to be VERY SURPRISED by the reception they receive.
To Gman and Matt and everyone else who may get the wrong idea from my comments . I don’t advocate not fighting , ever . My momma would come back to whip me if I did . Quite the contrary . I advocate fighting smartly and have formulated contingencies for different scenarios , but I don’t think people should overestimate their reactions to certain actions nor underestimate the cunningness and will of the adversary , in this case it is those folks who are hell bent on dismantling and reconstituting the US Constitution .
I am the consummate survivalist and have written several guides on basic off grid living , having lived off grid for almost a decade in the 1990s . I teach people small farm techniques on grain production and storage , smokehouse construction and meat preservation techniques as well how to convert a typical riding lawn mower into a farm tractor and a typical back yard into a homestead capable of providing sustenance for a family of five . I’m not talking about tomatoes and pepper plants but grains , potatoes , and beans .
I wouldn’t expect anyone to bury all their guns , but if one is able to and prudent , they would put back something .
It is also a common thing for people to talk insurrection or standing up to ‘ The Man ‘ , with no real plan of action or backup plans and backups to backups and this is contrary to basic common sense and typical day to day life . We don’t even drive under these assumptions .
I have contacts in law enforcement and military that are on the same page as of this writing , as far as actions to actions contingencies planning and military bases are and must be included in any recourse to a 2nd Amendment infringement .
I want everyone to be prepared to not just stand their ground but to also think in terms of working with like minded people to work as a unit and this just isn’t doable if you’re dead or in prison .
I think you and I would have a lot more in common than you think Matt , if we are being truthful and level here , as you so correctly pointed out .
God bless , fellow American . Stay vigil .
I have hope. Gun sales are at record highs. There are more guns in private hands, and more gun owners than any other time in American history. As to the no knock raids. It wouldkill a few. Some would die, either in their beds or in a blaze of glory. But after a few such incidents, there would be push back. The militia movement was effectively non existent before Ruby Ridge. It exploded after Waco. Non compliance with the NY SAFE ACT is estimated to be as high as 90%. The numbers are similar in Massachusetts. The cops can make a raid here of and make an example there, but their political masters are fully aware that if they push too hard, they’re inviting an insurgency. So they pass laws and talk about “Australian style gun control” and stew in their own vitriol. And the number of gum owning Americans continues to grow.
The number of new owners is growing in leaps and bounds. When the media said the number of gun owning households was the lowest in years it was a blatant lie.
As for hiding guns and or fighting those that come for them, who does anyone think that will be? Local police? All branches of LEO in a state? National Guard? US Army? The door to door thing would be an absolute fail. There isn’t enough local LEO to lock down a good size city. Does anyone believe all those who are willing to resist would be sitting at home waiting for the storm troops to roll down their street and then take them on barricaded inside their home? I don’t. I see outright gorilla warfare if that was tried. Anyone wanting to resist would be out in a hide with a rifle and picking off the enforcer’s from a few hundred yards away. How many takers would keep taking after loosing 20-50% of their force on day one due to death or injury? Nobody in their right mind would be facing down an assault team head on. Booby traps, sniper fire, equipment malfunction etc would make the job of seizure an absolute failure. That would happen if 100% of every LEO or National Guard or alphabet agency member was in full support, which I seriously doubt would be the case, or not.
The only way full on loss of firearms in this country happens is when an overwhelming percentage decide to Thankfully them. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Bits and pieces JDS , like they always do , that’s what they are already doing , and getting away with it too . Medicare , Medicaid , Social Security , Veterans , OBAMA CARE .
Momma moved in with you and she’s 87 years old and is having trouble caring for herself . she has already informed her care representative from her Medicare provider ( administrator [ Humana , Advantage , etc.. ]) she is having trouble remembering things and her nerves are rattled so her Doctor has her on tranquilizers and one of the new Alzheimer’s medications and has signed her power of attorney over to you so become the principle and you can pay her bills and care for her financial obligations . One day you get a letter that explains the danger of having any firearms around her because she is incompetent and if you own any they need to be removed from your home immediately . You will of coarse object to this request vehemently and if you can afford it you may get an attorney and they being the government ignore your objections and step up there game with a personal inspection by a welfare representative accompanied by a law enforcement officer or two . Do you begin to shoot now ? Most likely not . After a protested and quite legal search of your home , your firearms are discovered , inspected , and recorded . Now you’re pissed off bad and make some threats , legit as they may be , they are taken literally and if you are not arrested immediately , you are sternly warned , perhaps the officer knows you and cuts you a break . A week goes by and you have been frantically trying to receive a stay or any justice , you have told many of your friends and family how enraged you are at the injustice . Is this constitutional ???? No one has a good answer . You ask the question on your Facebook page , people are outraged with you . Two weeks pass and you are settling back into life a little when a letter arrives informing you that you have 30 days to comply with the removal order or face possible federal law violation and criminal proceedings against you .
What do you do ?
Send momma packing , send guns packing , stand and fight .
When the war on cigarette smokers began many smokers complained , frothed at the mouth in anger that they had to stand in some alley now to smoke , some tried to sue city and state governments when they lost revenue in their businesses , many refused to comply and were shamed or even fined into submission and if these tactics didn’t work the smoker ended up supporting state budgets by paying .50 , .60 , .75 cents per cigarette . The ones who did quit would become the biggest mouthpieces against other smokers . You know the ones I’m talking about . There is really nothing more obnoxious than someone who smoked for thirty years and then stopped , telling a smoker how they need to give them up . This could happen with guns if they can keep nibbling away . Suddenly the guy you used to hunt with every year for twenty years is now telling you how stupid you are for owning an AR.
They will take what they can get away with until you are the guy in the alley , beside the dumpster , 10 degrees out , puffing away while other people snarl at you and think how stupid you are .
This is just a theory of coarse , one that I happen to think is very plausible and one that I have prepared for .
Let’s hope brother…
Passing any of this gun control legislation would amount to directly handing over their seats for most Republicans. I would really like to see Lindsey Graham tossed in his next primary, never have liked that guy.
I knew it, those RINOs would cave in on gun control. The NYT says so, so it must be true. /sarc.
It is amazing how people who say that they don’t believe what the MSM says right up to the point where it confirms their biases.
I think you’re on to something there.
I live in Illinois and we have Sen Mark Kirk. Calling him a RINO would be polite. He is Durbin golfer boy. I swear I’d vote for his Democratic opponent if it weren’t for the possibility of giving the Dems control back. Most people think Illinois is a BLUE State but it really isn’t anymore. Looked back at the 2008 and 2012 elections. Almost the whole state is RED on Fed sears except for three I80–I39 Square (Greater Chicago). The problem is they have enough votes with the few they get downstate to always win. They seem to keep Kirk as a spoiler though he may get beat this time. Even DURBIN LOSES OUTSIDE THE LOOP except for a couple of counties.
“Blah blah blah, politikritter bs talk, etc.” That’s a quote from South Carolina *RINO* Senator Lindsey Graham.
There, FIFY.
“Due process is important, but at the end of the day, we are at war.”
So what he’s saying is: The best way to win this war against terrorism is to eliminate due process and take the next step towards disarming law abiding citizens.
That’s how you win a war?
If any version of no-fly / no-buy passes, the terrorists have won.
Here is the text of the 5th Amendment:
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
It doesn’t say rights cannot be infringed. It says rights cannot be infringed without due process of law. The Coryn bill does just that — provide due process. I support the Constitution even when it allows for things I don’t agree with. Those of you who only support it when it supports your position are no different from Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Except, the list itself is a de facto infringement of rights; therefore, due process must be applied to being put on the list, not just to being taken off the list.
Bingo!
You are spot on Chip . The list as proposed is a rouse and it’s only purpose is to get people to accept the notions and then the criteria and as soon as their foot is in the door , the equation will change , the variables are scrambled and the wall is breached , the bridgehead is secured by the enemy and the battle ground has now shifted in their favor where they have the high ground .
Who among us believes the list won’t be broadened and the criteria expanded to include us all ? If the British Crown would have had the technology and ‘ a list ‘ in the 1700’s whose names do you think would have been on their list ?
The no-buy list, with membership in the unaccountable secret list granted by an unaccountable secret bureaucrat, is a PERFECT example of a Bill of Attainder. Bills of Attainder are expressly forbidden by Section I Article 9.
A bill of Attainder is a law that is directed against a specific named person or group of persons, making them automatically guilty of serious crimes, and subject to punishment without a normal court proceeding. Not guilty of crimes because of any actions or meaningful accusations, but rather only by membership in the group.
How is any no-buy list not a Bill of Attainder?
No, the list itself is not an infringement unless you think law enforcement keeping a list of the names suspect gang or organized crime members is an infringement of rights. It is how the list used is what makes it an infringement. The removal of the right bear arms based on an unknown list is such an infringement. Using the list to identify potential threats and then presenting that evidence in a pubic court of law is called due process. It is exactly with the Constitution requires.
You’re arguing semantics. How fun.
I’m not suggesting that any arbitrary list is an infringement; rather, I am asserting that a “no fly” (much less, a “no fly, no buy”) list, used as it is intended, is an inherent infringement.
The list is currently a “no fly” list. The intent of the list is to deny the right of travel. In its current form it is already an inherent infringement of rights. Using the “no fly” list further as a “no buy” list only exacerbates the inherent infringement of rights underlying the intent and use of such a list.
In order for the use of such a list to be constitutional, due process must apply to being placed on the list; not merely on being taken off the list.
No John, it is not a Bill of Attainder. A Bill of Attainder is a law drafted against a specific individual. It helps to actually understand the words in the Constitution to understand the Constitution.
provide due process.
———————-
BS, a process isn’t DUE PROCESS.
Requiring someone to PROVE innocence in order to exercise a natural right, by definition, cannot be due process.
The Bill of Rights is an explicit limitation on the power of Government. That means the Government can’t simply decide what is and what is not due process.
The whole No Fly, no Buy is beyond idiotic, as even the FBI is 100% against it.
Currently, here is how the No Fly list works when someone on the list purchases a firearm from a dealer. The FBI is notified with the purchasers information, which can then be used to determine whether the person is actually dangerous, as opposed to simply having a similar name. The sale goes through, but the sale triggers an investigation if there is a reasonable suspicion to warrant such investigation.
Every year, since the NIC and No Fly has been in place, about 250 people on the No Fly list have purchased firearms, and yet, there is no data to suggest that any actual crimes have been committed by these individuals.
That’s because the vast vast majority of people on the No Fly list are not even in the United States, many on the No Fly list can’t legally buy firearms anyway, and a large number of people are on the list simply because of similarity of their names.
I believe the Coryn bill does not require the individual to prove their innocence. If they attempt to buy a gun, the 72hour delay occurs and the Feds have to prove their case for them being denied.
…something that can happen right now, today, without any new legislation.
Chip is right.
Due process comes before a right is removed, not after.
What if the gov decided to quarter solders in your home because you were on a list?
Would you agree that was acceptable while you petitioned the same gov to remove them?
What if your right to vote was removed before an election because you were on a list?
Sure you could petition the gov to get your voting right back, who knows maybe it might happen before the election.
Guns are no different and maybe people might die because the were denied the right to defend themselves when they needed it.
After all there was that woman in New Jersey that was murdered waiting for her permit to have a gun in her home.
Trying to gin up support for gun control by any means necessary. NYT wants this gun control bad.
If we are truly at war, and we are, then the enemy should be nuked.
We ALL know what the target should be. That little building with the dark cover.
Unfortunately, no US politician has the nads to “JUST DO IT !!!! “.
Lindsey The Poof’s “war”, is no different than the “war” on poverty, the “war” on drugs or any other such “war on” nonsense.
The only “war” these clowns will ever fight, is the war on taxpayers. Fought in perpetuity, by tax feeders like themselves.
No kidding. I was all for the Benghazi Investigation and they did a good job exposing Hilary BUT HOW IN THE HELL DID THEY SPEND $7MILLION that’s $7,000,000 dollars. I could take some guesses but it would involve white powder and solid gold spoons and high priced well I won’t go on….
“I’ll leave you with a British aphorism: pull the other one, it’s got bells on it.”
Huh. I always thought that was a Brit version of “pull my finger”.
Learn something new every day at TTAG…
The NYT is converting their operations to printing junk mail to make a living.
Suck it NY, NYT, N.E., your inbreeding is looping your DNA.
If passed the UniParty declares due process is not a right but a privilege.
An admission if you will, that our government is failing. Instead of accessing the problem correctly, the Congress will make a new law which does nothing.
“Due process is important, but at the end of the day, we are at war.”
If we are at war, then declare war. Full out boots on the ground, close air support, naval bombardment, turn it over to the Generals, kill combatants, take prisoners, accept enemy civilian losses, ROE for all out war. Or as an alternative turn the Middle East into glass. If we are not willing to do that, we are not at war. Enough with the kabuki theater. Since our leaders are not truly willing to fight a war to win it, I am not willing to give up my Constitutionally protected rights. Ignore the Constitution at your peril, it is still the law of the land.
Almost forgot the most important one. Stop inviting enemy combatants behind our lines!
Or even better, quit electing them into office.
C’mon repubs gave us Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. And the Iraq War and endless Afghanistan adventures. Anyone surprised at the “bro without a ho” RINO ain’t paying attention. I see lots of turmoil ahead-oddly glad I’m old…
The Patriot Act? Ohhhh…..you mean that law passed by the DEMOCRAT contolled Congress by a vote of 357-66 in the House and 98-1 in the Senate?
Yes, signed by Bush, with a sunset provision. It only still exists today because it’s been signed into extension by Obama, twice.
They ALL voted for it. Enthusiastically too. Including the hildebeast(who lies about pretty much everything ). Astounding you’d give the befuddled Bush a pass…
I hear that all the time, regardless the topic : Republicans did this or that or the other…..and everything’s going to Hell….
Then, when I furnish the facts that it was exclusively or predominantly a Democrat doing, then come the expedient redefinitions of the issue or the widening of the net to cast culpability (reluctantly, belatedly, and sometimes erroneously) on both parties.
Regardless who did what originally, can we agree that most recently Obama has a phone and a pen and he authorized the extension of the Patriot Act twice? But for Obama, it would no longer exist, as he had the last clear chance (s) to end it? Oh, and that Obama is a Democrat?
Really, 15 years post 9-11 does not deserve anywhere near the same deference to government power (if there’s ever such a time) as did 45 days post 9-11 when ground zero was literally still smouldering and Bush signed the Patriot Act. Whether sired or adopted, the Patriot Act is Obama’s baby.
Darn, left out a point. You claimed I gave Bush a pass. You’re befuddled by it, even.
When, exactly, did I give Bush a pass? Was it when I conceded “Yes, signed by Bush, with a sunset provision” or someplace else?
If you’re not going to read each word of my post, then read none of it and respond to none of it. I don’t have time to come back and point out every misrepresentation of my writing someone makes, whether they’re being willfully daft or just argumentative for its own sake.
They ALL voted for it. Enthusiastically too. Including the hildebeast(who lies about pretty much everything ). Astounding you’d give the befuddled Bush pass…
Gee I’m not befuddled. Anyone who gives republitards credit IS…see:Republicans cave…
Jonathan, you didn’t finish your statement with the mandatory Democratic “but”. As in “which Obama re-signed twice, “BUT” that was after he had already smoked his second Bong of the day each time!”
Pretty much lets not forget who put us in this mess in the first place. If there wasn’t a no fly list we wouldn’t be doing this right now probably.
That being said they are probably counting people like my esteemed Mark Kirk:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/senate-kirk-republicans-illinois-221915
Voting Democrat in November if only to get rid of him so that hopefully he’ll fade out before the next election. Either that or voting third party.
Just abstain Andrew-Tammy ain’t better. I have no use for Kirk either but “war heroine” Tammy is a hildebeast-feminist nightmare…
Kirk needs to go before anything changes. He votes with Diane feinstein. Damned either way this time may as well try to set up for success next time.
I’ve already bemoaned our disgraceful Mark Kirk in an earlier post. He’s a Durbin lackey and a Democratic plant. But since the Dems defeated his primary opponent we need to keep him to have any chance of keeping control of Senate. I also talked about how the media paints Illinois BLUE when it is really mostly RED on Fed seats outside the I-39 & I-80 loop. But there isn’t enough of a RED majority to overcome Chicago.I’ve advocated for S.E. IL to secede from IL and join INDIANA for years now.
We are at war…so it is time to disarm Americans and arm the terrorists. -so says the mentally challenged
“Due process is important, but at the end of the day, we are at war.”
He is dead on right about this, and absolutely serious. The massive build up for an all out war is well on it’s way. And yes, I mean hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground.
But if you think he’s talking about a “war on Islam” or a “war on Muslims”, you are sadly mistaken.
Mostly agreed. According to the Wall Street Journal earlier this month, the number of non-Defense Department federal officers authorized to make arrests and carry firearms (200,000) has quadrupled in the past 20 years and now exceeds the number of U.S. Marines (182,000).
So the grave and gathering menace may come in the form not of boots on the ground, but of wingtips on the walkways.
This is my constant refrain, and it frustrates the hell out me.
Who should you be focused on, the camel coveting goat fuc(ker that’s probably never hurt you or anyone you know, or the self serving statists you put in charge that are actually taking away your property and your freedom right now? Daesh is our opponent, the members of our government who wish to return us to serfdom are the enemy.
I’m upgrading my response to 100% agreed now.
BTW, nice turn of a phrase vis-a-vis the camel. Ewwww……
“Common sense will tell us that the power which hath endeavored to subdue us, is of all others the most improper to defend us. Conquest may be effected under the pretence of friendship; and ourselves, after a long and brave resistance, be at last cheated into slavery…. Wherefore, if we must here-after protect ourselves, why not do it for ourselves? Why do it for another?” (Thomas Paine, Common Sense pg. 47)
FREE MEN DO NOT ASK FOR PERMISSION TO BEAR ARMS.
COTUS, their Special Interest Lobbies and the Federal Bureaucracy have built a ruling oligarchy of long term Senators, Congressmen and Federal Employees. All of whom enjoy wealth, privilege, and outstanding lifetime benefits that both Democrats and Republicans eagerly embrace and NONE of them wants to screw-up.
Between Republicans and Democrats there are differences in political positions and agendas, which I refer to as “bickering points”. However the main concern of both Parties is to remain inert and not screw-up their sweet lives, while keeping the Plebeians mostly pacified with a charade where they blame each other for their failure to get anything done and never risk upsetting their status quo.
To us plebs, observing from the outside, it appears there is less and less difference between the dominant Parties because maintaining the ruling oligarchy overrides any interest they have in getting anything done as long as COTUS is at a rough parity. When anything they enact is not “veto-proof” because there is a POTUS patently hostile to to the other COTUS dominant Party, then it is easier to remain inert and play a vitriolic “blame game” for Public consumption.
The last time POTUS and COTUS were dominated by the same side, we got Obamacare. Ever since 2010 POTUS and COTUS have been at odds and neither has gotten anything significant done, which might be to our advantage.
Now, Americans are supporting a Populist for POTUS in large numbers. No wonder the Political Establishment hates Donald Trump…they are uncertain and uncertainty breeds fear and loathing.
I think we may be in for some unpleasant surprises as the Nominating Conventions unfold.
“Due process is important, but at the end of the day, we are at war.”
“Over there” we may be at war. Over here the Muslims are at war and we are in a circle jerk, with Lindsey Graham in the middle.
How can we be at war and still leave the front door open? America has gone totally nuts.
” Due process is important, but …”
I support the 2nd amendment, but …
I have black friends, but …
The nice thing about ‘but’ statements is that you can disregard everything said before the ‘but’.
In case nobody has been paying attention to the recent 5 SCOTUS rulings, the whole court is shifting Left and it has been the biggest shift since the Warren court. The NYT even had a graph on its above the fold page yesterday.
If Hillary gets in, it will be full Left and the Democrats will be able to do whatever the F they want via the courts just like they do in CA.
Many of the so called Republicans believe that they should expand the base by caving to 100% of their principles. Guns being one of them. Under John Boehner we saw just how much they will cave.
These guys believe they are compromising but when the other side get 100% of what they want and your side gets 0%, that is NOT a compromise.
I agree on Hillary , she has made it perfectly clear what her intentions are .
I personally believe a lot of Trump supporters are going to feel their heads spin when he does the same thing , don’t put your hopes in a man of moral ineptitude .
This choice will unfortunately make him a prime candidate for assignation and when the world falls into chaos and cries out for leadership , Mr. Barry Sorrento ( BHO ) will gladly step to the plate and from his office in the sprawling confines of the green zone in Babylon , he will usher in Armageddon .
Just a snippet from my new thriller , not really gonna happen , of coarse .
They won’t, because he will never win the election. Instead they’ll look at what Hillary does do, and proclaim that Trump would have been better, if only…
He’s down by six points in the latest FOX News poll, and that’s a huge drop for him. People outside of the Republican party are noticing this is a turd the GOP is handing to them.
Perhaps , we will see soon enough . My gut tells me when November rolls around , there will be a lot of folks who will vote Trump that are saying they won’t in the polling . There is a lot more support for Trump out there than a lot of people will admit . He is like porn on the web , 20% of the people say they view it and the numbers indicate that 1 in 3 do . There is also a huge number of Hillary haters out there who won’t publically admit it either so don’t be surprised if we wake up in January and watch the Don get sworn in . Lots of people still looking for change and pretty hopeless .
No Chip I am not arguing Semantics, I arguing the Constitutional requirement for due process. The Coryn Bill puts the burden of proof on the government not on the individual. The government would have to provide evidence that the individual has nefarious purpose in buying the gun. The Bill actually defangs the no fly list because the government will never use it against an actual threat because it will compromise active counterterrorism investigations and they will never use it against some one who is in the list on mere suspicion because the judge will laugh them out of court.
The Conryn does absolutely nothing that isn’t 100% possible to do right now, today.
Right now, today, FBI can put a hold on a NICS check based on the no fly list. Right now, today, FBI can take the evidence against the person to a judge, and begin any appropriate legal proceedings.
False statement. The FBI can do no more that put a 72 hour hold on the approval if the person is not otherwise prohibited from purchasing a gun.
It is obvious that you think that the government cannot compile lists of people who may be involved in illegal activities unless there in open investigation of a specific crime. That is a defendable position if and only if you don’t hold the authorities reponsible when something bad happens like the Pulse attack. You cannot hold someone responsible for preventing a terrorist attack when you claim that watching someone who has committed no crime is a violation of his rights.
Utterly true statement. FBI can today, right now, place a hold on a NICS check for a suspect on the no fly list. FBI can today, right now, take any evidence they have to a judge, and commence legal proceedings against a suspect.
A 72 hour hold is… a hold. So, that’s exactly what I said. So, is it your contention that FBI (or any other applicable FedGov agency) needs further legislation in order to go to a judge to commence legal proceedings? Huh; that’s news to me.
False statement. I never said any such thing, nor do any of my statements imply any such thing. I have been quite clear: it is not the existence of any given list, but rather the use/intent of said list that is problematic.
Idiotic. For one, perpetrators are responsible for their own acts. For another, no law prevents violent people from committing violent acts that they are intent upon committing – least of which are background checks of any stripe.
There you go with the watching thing again. The issue is no fly, and no buy. Watch all you want. But the minute you act to deny a right, you must respect due process. I don’t give a flip about the “seriousness of the charge”. Every person enjoys the constitutional protection of presumption of innocence. If the government has sufficient evidence, then go to a judge and do something about it. Otherwise: keep your lists to yourself.
So basically this guy said:
“In order to save America
We have to destroy it.”
SC y’all deserve better. Get rid of this buffoon in the next primary.
“If you are for gun control, then you are not against guns, because the guns will be needed to disarm people. So it’s not that you are anti-gun. You’ll need the police’s guns to take away other people’s guns. So you’re very Pro-Gun, you just believe that the Government (which is, of course, so reliable, honest, moral and virtuous…) should be allowed to have guns. There is no such thing as gun control. There is only centralizing gun ownership in the hands of a small, political elite and their minions.” Stefan Molyneux
Idjits.
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