Times Square gun free zone sign gun-free
(AP Photo/Yuki Iwamura)

[A]t about 5:30 p.m. Thursday, as workers were hurrying to catch trains home and tourists were ambling toward hotels and Broadway theaters, a 22-year-old Bronx man was fatally shot near a Shake Shack restaurant on Eighth Avenue at West 44th Street.

The shooting was the first since the creation of the expansive, signposted zone, the police said in a statement, and it immediately renewed questions about whether such a designation can truly protect the area.

“People feel emboldened to carry guns on the street,” said Tom Harris, a retired New York police inspector and the president of the Times Square Alliance, which promotes businesses and coordinates major events.

“A gun-free zone is not going to stop a criminal from carrying a gun,” Mr. Harris said. …

The state passed the law establishing the zone after the Supreme Court’s June decision striking down New York’s century-old gun law, which had placed strict limits on the public carrying of firearms.

The measure designated government buildings, places of worship, health care providers, libraries, playgrounds, public parks, the subway and Times Square specifically as places where people would be prohibited from carrying guns.

In October, Mr. Adams, who has said he owns three guns, signed a City Council bill that defined Times Square broadly and made it illegal to carry a gun between Sixth and Ninth Avenues and 40th and 53rd Streets. He said the legislation would help “dam those rivers that” are bringing firearms into New York.

“This is the heart of our city,” Mr. Adams said at the time, noting that 56 million people were expected to visit the city in 2022, with many of them likely to come through Times Square.

“We want to make sure that they’re safe,” the mayor said, explaining that the law would create an environment where visitors “won’t have to be paralyzed with the fear of knowing that someone is carrying a gun in this area.” In a statement on Friday, Mr. Adams said that under his administration, the police are removing illegal guns off the street daily and the sale of untraceable firearms without serial numbers — known as ghost guns — to the city through five online retailers had stopped.

“But this shooting underscores the need to ensure Times Square remains a sensitive location” under the state’s law, he said.

— Maria Cramer and Lola Fadulu in Times Square Killing Tests New York’s Push to Curb Gun Violence

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

118 COMMENTS

    • ““A gun-free zone is not going to stop a criminal from carrying a gun,” Mr. Harris said. …””

      Another freaking mensa…

    • No one is going to comment about the fact that many businesses in that area had premises gun permits?
      Where the owner was allowed to have a gun on the premises?
      All of these have now been revoked.
      So now no business owner is allowed to protect himself on his property with a firearm

  3. I will never go to NYC or any other place that doesn’t allow citizens to protect themselves. history has shown that “gun free zones “ are nothing more than unarmed victim zones for lunatics who want to kill

  4. what have we been telling them for years? what is wrong with them that they think we’re not telling the truth to them? We Are For Freedom liberty and justice and these liberal fools do not listen until somebody gets killed.

    • “until somebody gets killed”? Really? I WISH somebody getting killed would MAKE them listel. but we KNOW they are overlords and dominating overlords because even when someone DOES get killed they blame it on someone else.

      the answer is right under their long and growing noses.

  5. How are they enforcing these zones? They are not.
    Maybe if people start suing for non-enforcement they will stop with the nonsense.

      • From the story “Mr. Adams said that under his administration, the police are removing illegal guns off the street daily”

        Sounds to me like the commie progs are engaging in warrantless illegal search and seizure.

      • Not necessarily. How about when someone DOES make illegal use of a firearm (and by that I mean harming another, not just having a gun) start with taking away their guns and then LOCKING THEM UP FOR A LONG TIME? And when such folks use a gin and KILL some innocent with it, impose the Death Penalty. Yes bring bac Capital Punishment for murder. It I biblical, and it DOES work, fr better than anything ese theve ever tried.

  6. ” ‘We want to make sure that they’re safe,’ the mayor said, explaining that the law would create an environment where visitors ‘won’t have to be paralyzed with the fear of knowing that someone is carrying a gun in this area.’ ”

    “But this shooting underscores the need to ensure Times Square remains a sensitive location”

    😂

    This man is delusional.

    1. Criminals do not obey laws.

    2. Criminals are not movie vampires, they can not be warded off with a ‘no guns sign’ like movie vampires are warded off with crosses and garlic.

    3. ‘no guns’ signs are not science fiction force fields. They do not offer any protection from criminal use of firearms.

    4. People already don’t know a law abiding concealed carrier would be present or not. People already don’t know if a concealed carry criminal would be present or not. A ‘no guns’ sign does not magically give or deny people in an area some mystical power to know if a person was carrying concealed or not.

    5. “this shooting underscores” the fact that ‘gun free zones’ signs do not work to make sure people are safe as you promised.

    6. “this shooting underscores” that making and maintaining Times Square a “sensitive location” in relation to guns is a political tool used to dupe the masses and a joke.

    • and another…

      7. Mayor Adams, it seems the criminals are a lot more intelligent than you. The criminals know for a fact that ‘no guns zones’ and the signs do not work to provide the ‘safe area’ you promised they would provide.

      • “New Yorkers Struggle to Come to Grips With the Fact That ‘Gun-Free Zone’ Signs Don’t Really Seem to Work”

        Nah…

        New Yorkers Struggle to Come to Grips with a Mayor and Governor that are absolute idiots.

        • no, that corrupt people got paid to manufacture enough fake votes to mintain the status quo.

          It ain’t how many votes get cast, its who COUNTS the votes. that were (or were not) cast.

      • We used to go there every few years so my wife could get paperwork done at the Paradoran consulate downtown. We would stay in East Chicago and take the train back and forth, doing our business and touristy stuff in the Millennium Park area. It was ok, for a big city. Even got her to try out that magic makeover box thing, to no avail. The numbers flashed and everything, but she came out carrying on about some kind of bird’s eye view nonsense, and that was it. Pshaw. Ate Mexican food at that place owned by the fella on tv, and weird hotdogs. I do like the thicker pizza, though. It was ok for a couple days away from home, but I told her a year or two ago that she needs to find a different consulate because Chicago has pretty much gone down the toilet. Shame…

    • .40,

      It seems as if NY’s no-gun laws are really designed to intimidate and punish law-abiding gun owners…and to spit in the face of SCOTUS…and to crap all over the USA Constitution. Their laws obviously have nothing to do with safety, as you clearly demonstrate.

    • 8. People often don’t even notice let alone read signs most of the time. Especially in cities where there are signs everywhere competing for attention.

      9. People often ignore signs even when they do notice and read them.

      10. New Yorkers love to break posted rules, they get off on it.

  7. The solution is very simple:

    First, New York should place RFID transmitters on all of their ‘No gun’ signs.

    Second, New Your should pass a law requiring all guns be equipped with an RFD receiver to detect the non-gun signs. Existing firearms will, of course, have to be retrofitted, while manufacturers will have to add these devices to all new firearms.

    The RFID devices should trigger (pun intended) an alarm, which all guns will also be required to have. When a gun approaches or enters a no-gun zone, the alarm will sound, alerting the armed citizen that he/she is about to commit a crime.

    The problems New York is facing are easily solved by technology.

    Or

    New York legislators could just protect and defend the Constitution of the USA.

    • Do you have any concept how easy it is to find and purchase an older gun that does not have nor can be retrofitted with the sort of RFID system you imgine? My sidearm, which I;ve carried every day for fitfteen years, was designed in 1926, the particular one I carry was manufactured in /feb of 1964. Sich toys as you suggest had ot yet even been dremt of back then. Nor can any such system be retrofitted to mine. The Constitution’s ex post fqcto clause prohibits government from bnning something I already own that predates their favourite technology. Can’t be done legally.

      • “The Constitution’s ex post fqcto clause prohibits government from bnning something I already own that predates their favourite technology. Can’t be done legally.”

        Not correct. EPF means you cannot be charged with illegal activity for something done prior to the effective date of a law. You can constitutionally be charged with something that is illegal after the effective date of a new law.

        Think about it. Under your conception of EPF law, you are surrounded by a huge array of laws making something illegal after a date certain. Given your understanding of EPF, in the 232 years since the ratification of the Constitution, thousands upon thousands of law suits would have been brought in federal court, by smart lawyers claiming EPF. Yet, even today, no 2A defense group has been alert enough to use EPF to challenge gun control laws? Why? Are those groups using attorneys who are clueless about such an easy challenge to gun control laws?

        EPF simply means you cannot be charged with crime for an action/item that was legal prior to the effective date of the law; only charged for an action/item happening after a law’s effective date, and forward.

        Let’s go to an automobile example, again: Prior to the legal mandate for cars to be produced with catalytic converters, one could buy and drive an automobile that had no catalytic converter. After the effective date of the catalytic converter mandate, one could still drive an automobile without the converter; but, one could not legally buy a new car lacking a catalytic converter. However, one could not be criminally charged with having once bought a non-equipped automobile prior the the effective date of the legal mandate.

        As you perceive EPF laws, a ban on non-converter automobiles would be EPF; owning a non-equipped car was once legal, thus the mandate prohibiting buying a non-equipped car after a specific date would be EPF. However, it would actually be constitutionally valid to have a law that totally banned owning a non-equipped car after the effective date of the law. Still, you could not be charged for once having such a car (and maybe selling it) before the effective date of the law; only for owning an illegal car after the effective date of a law banning non-converter equipped cars.

  8. Looks like the criminals need to be taught how to read in NYC. That’ll solve the problem for sure……
    (sarcasm)

    • Take it from a life long New Yorker. The politicians in NY are owned by the criminals that operate there. Those criminals want to make sure their victims are unarmed. NY has been creating laws towards that goal since 1911, google Sullivan act of 1911.

      • The people of New York are continuing to vote Democrat. THAT is why they are still there and have all that power.

        • More likely those in power maintain that power and have so successfully extended it to the voting process they are assured of victory every time.

          I fear it will require a citizen uprising to drain that swamp. It won’t be pretty but it seems not even SCOTUS are heeded in that state.Perhaps if things continue this way one or more of the current Justices just might remember what had to be done about George Wallace back about sixty years or so. Same kinda deal here. Or at least the Justices find those “in charge” are in contempt of court, and send NG in to have them rounded up and fitted for orange onesies.

      • @Tommy

        Yep! Tim Sullivan was trying to monopolize the saloon business, and small business owners with pocket pistols were giving his thugs problems.

        So he got elected, and passed that law. He was aided in this by a gay journalist whose lover was shot and killed by a jealous third party in guess where square…

        Or so I read, and also heard. I had an uncle born in the City in 1900 who remembered the time – he said Grampa was patting himself on the back for having moved to “gun friendly” NJ about 1910 or so…

        That did not last, of course. Prohibition made the gangsters so powerful they took over NJ and most of New England – and passed strict gun control laws, like they always do.

        • Tim Sullivan controlled criminal gangs whose primary targets were immigrants. At the time immigrants were able to carry firearms legally and without too much trouble. When the immigrants fought back, the thugs cried to Sullivan for help.

          Remember that the Sullivan act allowed police chiefs to deny CCW permits based on poor moral character. He played off of systemic racism (yes, the commie buzz phrase) against immigrants who were thought to be of poor moral repute to disarm them.

          Now the good moral character bullshit was turned against anyone who wasn’t rich or a democommie. Until Bruen.

  9. I keep splaining to everyone that we are at war, but you don’t listen either. As long as we keep thinking it’s about safety we will lose. Joe Biden is a Chinese traitor, period. When you think about what has happened over the last 2 years does anything else make sense. Eyes to see, ears to hear.

    • Redneck,

      Partially agree. Yes, we are at war. Yes, Biden has sold out to the Chinese and anyone else who puts money into his family coffers. But you seem to imply folk here on TTAG do not realize all of this. That is what I disagree with. Most folk on TTAG seem very aware, wide-awake (but not woke 🤠).

      • You especially know our battles are spiritual. All the pointing out that gun control is @ odds with public safety, is in effective, because public safety is not their goal.

  10. “The state passed the law establishing the zone after the Supreme Court’s June decision striking down New York’s century-old gun law, which had placed strict limits on the public carrying of firearms.

    The measure designated government buildings, places of worship, health care providers, libraries, playgrounds, public parks, the subway and Times Square specifically as places where people would be prohibited from carrying guns.”

    Apparently, Times Square and these other designated ‘sensitive’ areas as “places where people would be prohibited from carrying guns” were a lot ‘safer’ before they were designated as such. Overall violent crime, crime in general, in these areas (state wide) now so designated has doubled since they were designated in the NY anti-Bruen temper tantrum law.

    • Imagine if the government was required to repeal all laws that didn’t deliver on their promised effect. Every single bill would require a timetable to accomplish the goal, along with periodic measurable results. The government is out of control because there’s no accountability for their (intentional) failures.

      • Believe it or not some programs and especially projects operate this way in government. Not saying the objectives or scope of function are worth doing but sometimes we do have measurable quantitative goals.

  11. The people of New York are convinced that city officials ‘know better’ so whatever they say is they way everyone goes, regardless. It’s why life is the way it is there. It’s a city of cowards, followers, and yes-men. They have willingly turned themselves into slaves.

    Nothing said on this site will ever make a difference or matter in any way simply because it does not come from any city official.

    So you think owning a gun makes you suddenly pro-2A? NO! All that means is that you own a gun. Nothing more.

    The truth is closer to the idea that the 22 year old in this article would likely still be alive if not for gun free zones. The person that pulled that trigger had no thought of being fired at. Why would they?

    I do not care one way or the other of this person owns three guns. That is of no consequence. What means something is that he makes other people helpless. What makes it so much worse is that he actually thinks he is promoting ‘public safety’. Well, you can’t guarantee public safety. That is a Hollywood made up myth. The fact that this 22 year old is dead is proof of that.

  13. gfz’s not working due to: christian nationalists, climate change, covid, structural racism, yt-supremacy, etc.

  15. “But this shooting underscores the need to ensure Times Square remains a sensitive location” under the state’s law, he [Mayor Adams] said.

    Wrong headline for the article. Should be:

    New York Mayor Doubles Down On “Stupid!”

  16. The only solution to the Times Square problem is to prohibit the wearing or carrying of any clothing, purses, bags, boxes, or anything else that could potentially have a firearm in it, and subject everyone to a cavity search before allowing them entry to the gun free zone.

  17. Everyone pro, anti, left and right would mock anyone proposing a “Murder Free Zone” signage campaign.

    So why are “Gun Free Zone” campaigns taken seriously?

  18. Ridicule is a potent tool in such debates.

    For example, we could ridicule Mayor Adams. It won’t touch the Honorable mayor’s consciousness. That’s not the point.

    It will touch the consciousness of the audience to ridicule. The audience need not experience the pain of being the direct target of ridicule. Their attention will be laughing at the named target. Therefore, they will laugh along at the named target. And, then the message of the ridicule can seep into their subconscious.

    So, suppose a meme of the Honorable Mayor posting a No Wolves sign in a meadow with sheep. We’ve all seen such memes. And, it’s a prominent government official who believes that this No Wolves sign is going to work. And the official is obviously clueless. The point can register.

    The cumulative effect of such ridicule works in two ways. First, it builds contempt in the hearts of the constituents. That is costly politically. Second, the official realizes he is paying the price for allowing himself to be the butt of ridicule. He will consider stopping so he mitigates his damage. Third, other officials will see that they are making themselves targets. These have not yet been identified with their own memes posting No Wolves signs. But their turn will come. Should they persist until they are targeted? Or, should they stop now and choose some other issue on which to create political support (e.g., Global Warming)?

  20. I have been to New York City. I might be willing to visit a second time when they recognize my Georgia carry license, otherwise it is on my no go list.

    • I will not even book an airlone flight that connects through NYC or NJ, nor anywhere else close enough my plane might get diverted to that cesspit. Only partly because I always bring aling my little metal “Friend” when I travel. Once out of the airplane it goes on my hip so I always have it ready to hand if needed.

  21. “But this shooting underscores the need to ensure Times Square remains a sensitive location” under the state’s law, he said.

    Say WHAT? I know, make it double SUPER gun free zone and execute violators on the spot, that’ll learn em…. The moron is strong in that one…

  22. “But this shooting underscores the need to ensure Times Square remains a sensitive location” under the state’s law, he said.

    It underscores the opposite as I doubt the shooter had a CCW permit. Once again these policies only stop the law abiding.

    What fools.

  24. visitors “won’t have to be paralyzed with the fear of knowing that someone is carrying a gun in this area.” Eric Adams is an UTTER clown and slimy politician.

  25. All the talk about visitors to NYC being paralyzed with fear is foolishness.
    Butt if true, then why do they visit such a place where they are frightened so severely?

  26. Everyone knows that law-abiding citizens are smuggling guns from states with lax gun laws.

    Tough gun laws keep the criminal element in check, but legal gun owners are the real threat.

      • “Samm You Amm delusional AND an invertebrate prevaricator.”

        And you should standup when reading comments here; far too much sails freely over your head. Living in constant outrage is a hallmark of leftists, and teenagers. I don’t think you want to be counted among them.

      • invertebrate prevaricator

        WTF????? A “spineless liar”? damnnnn. OR an inveterate (habitual) liar? Eiter way you’ve fallen into Sams “sarcasm” trap…

  27. 2nd Amendment if you believe in it means gun rights for all, including felons
    or, does it mean gun rights for me ?

  28. I am sure that if the shooter is caught they will turn out to have no previous arrests and is an otherwise upstanding member of society, with a CCW of course.

    • Working on his masters in Theoretical Physics studying the origins of the Universe and life spans of mega-super-gigantic Black Holes and their correlation to the possible existence of the elusive and as of yet not confirmed (theoretical) White Hole…

  29. Wasn’t there a “Gun Free Zone” in a place called Uvalde, TX?

    As I recall it didn’t save a life.

    • the cops in Uvalde misread the sign and thought it said “Free Gun Zone” so no reason to suspect those shots were out of place.

    • Yep. Just exactly like the one at Sandy Hook Elementary, and at Douglsa High School in Parklend, and FOrt Hood twice, and Mall of America, and the rented dance hall in San Bernardino. There was NOT one at the Sutherland Springs Baptist Church in Texas, nor at the West Freeway Baptist Church near Dallas Texas… at both of which places the murderer was taken out by an honest citizen with a good aim and a good gun.
      WHY can’t the Noo Yawkers see the difference? (hint:DY DOAN WANNA SEE IT

  30. NYC hasn’t put up any ‘Crime Free Zone’ signs to solve their crime problem…. that’s a whole new re-election campaign platform right there.

    🤣

  31. Next they blame neighboring states for bringing in all the guns. Then they blame Mexico/Canada for bringing in all the guns. Then they blame politicians for not acting sooner. Then they just start killing anyone who questions their method, door to door…

    History is fun.

    • but NO ONE in government ever blamed our own government, Eric Holder, the kinyun, and Company, for bringing in thousands of guns into Mexico, many of which have “found” their way back into the US to be used to kill one of us. Funny how that works…..

  32. Strange, I’m out here in flyover country. Almost everyone is armed or has access to firearms. While it does happen, murder is rare out here. Cities like NYC, Chicago, LA, etc have pushed disarmament and murders are an everyday occurrence.

  33. “Cities like NYC, Chicago, LA, etc have pushed disarmament and murders are an everyday occurrence.”

    That’s because legal gun owners in flyover land smuggle legal guns into the high crime areas. (where do you think all those pickups and RVs are going when traveling North and East?)

    Gun smuggling out of flyover land means fewer guns in flyover land, thus fewer gun crimes. If gun smuggling by legal gun owners in flyover land is stopped, crime will drop precipitiously in the big cities. Simple math; settled science.

    • Numbskull!!!! You don’t KNW gun owners out in Flyover Land. nce they GET a gun, they KEEP it. WHY would they ever be crazy enough to send it to NYC, Philly, ChiCongo, BaltiMore, let them find their wn guns. None of them would do anything that would lead to “fewer guns in flyover country”.

  34. noting that 56 million people were expected to visit the city in 2022, with many of them likely to come through Times Square.

    “We want to make sure that they’re safe,” the mayor said, explaining that the law would create an environment where visitors “won’t have to be paralyzed with the fear of knowing that someone is carrying a gun in this area.”

    I was carefully and definitely NOT one of those 65 millions expected to visit NYC.Sorry to disappoint. (not really….) Nor WILL I be until I am satisfied ALL my rights as an American will be proteced and honoured by the government of that city.

  35. So things are like they always were in NYC. Those of us with permits from the freer part of the state could never carry in NYC anyways and the crooks don’t obey laws let alone signs .

    NYS problem lie with cashless bail, raise the age , demoralized and defunded cops . Where I live ,a smaller and much more violent NY city ( well I live just outside it ) it’s common for criminals to be arrested a couple times in a week, one high achiever stole a car but got caught in the morning, stole another used it to rob a jewelry store in the afternoon , released on an appearance ticket each time .

    400 Kias have been stolen here this year , many are used in other crimes , the trend is to drive them trough the fronts of stores after hours then stealing what they can , police dont chase …. If by some random chance they get “caught “ it’s another appearance ticket .

    Tons of guys have violated parol , still they get released.

    • Larry, I could not agree more. The Lefties are trying desperately to “defang” that police, the courts and the criminal justice system.

  36. What? You mean to say criminals not only do not obey the law, but they do not obey those “Gun Free Zone” signs?
    Color me surprised.
    And, that would also imply those idiot Democrats (but I repeat myself) who thought “Gun Gree Zone” signs would stop gun violence just might be . . . idiots.
    The stupidity is mind blowing.

    • But they virtue-signaled that they’re against guns!

      Being against CRIME is much less important, especially since they believe that most criminals are just stealing because they’re starving and acting because of racism.

  38. So, a Blue city declares a “gun-free zone,” but cuts the police and makes it impossible to stop a suspect unless said suspect is pretty much committing a crime in front of the cops.

    Not even Progressive criminals are typically stupid enough to just walk through a “gun-free zone” while open carrying. So, how are the cops supposed to know if someone is violating the “gun-free zone”?

    • “So, how are the cops supposed to know if someone is violating the “gun-free zone”?”

      The “threat” to legal gun owners is that if one is engaged by the cops, for whatever reason, and your firearm is discovered, then you forever lose your right to buy/possess firearms.

      So, not wanting to lose your rights, the legal gun owner (the most dangerous person in society) does not possess a firearm in a GFZ; problem solved. (No, criminals bearing firearms are not as much a concern)

  39. Well, duh? No shit Sherlock. I thought New Yorkers prided themselves on being smarter than the average slug out in ‘fly-over’ country? Obviously they are not since they keep voting for Democrats to ‘lead’ them. You get what you vote for, suckers!

  40. Just post signs saying this is a robbery free, murder free, rape free, stealing free, assault free city and then no crimes will happen in the entire city. That’s how it works in a Democrat’s mind. In a Republican’s mind, we post, all our citizens are carrying guns. Which do you think will have a lower crime rate?

  41. The whole idea that making a “Gun Free Zone” will have any effect other than insuring crimes will be committed in the “Safe Space,” is so divorced from reality, that those proposing such need serious Psychiatric care for their delusion.
    It’s been 32+ years since the Gun Free School Zones Act was passed and it has prevented absolutely nothing. There’s been more school mass shootings in the 32 years since the Act was passed than the number of school mass shootings in the 32 years prior to the Act’ passing.

    • “It’s been 32+ years since the Gun Free School Zones Act was passed and it has prevented absolutely nothing.”

      The reality is, with all law, we can never know how many acts were prevented; they are not recorded anywhere.

      All we can validly state is the number of events that were not prevented. Thinking it through, “Criminals don’t obey the law” can be used as a reason to not have laws at all. Criminals/bad guys shoot up GFZs, and criminals commit murders; why have laws against murder?

  42. “New Yorkers Struggle to Come to Grips With the Fact That ‘Gun-Free Zone’ Signs Don’t Really Seem to Work.” Duh!!! Since when do criminals obey the law. Maybe they should concentrate on keeping the criminals in prison.

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