This is TTAG’s weekly roundup of legal and legislative news affecting guns, the gun business and gun owners’ rights. For a deeper dive into the topics discussed here, check out this week in gun rights at FPC.
Non-citizens owning guns is not a “loophole”
Last Friday saw a Saudi aviator in training murder three and injure more at a naval base in Pensacola, Florida. Federal law provides that many non-citizens can buy and possess firearms provided they have a valid state hunting license.
The horrific event has caused many to call for an end to what they are calling the “hunting license loophole.” This is far from a loophole, and also would not solve anything.
Another point of nuance is lost on many calling for an end to this “loophole.” Florida’s governor DeSantis himself urged change, saying “I’m a big supporter of the Second Amendment, but the Second Amendment applies so that we, the American people, can keep and bear arms, it does not apply to Saudi Arabians.”
We have to remember a couple things. One; not everything is a “loophole.” A “loophole” is something left between the gaps, something usually unintended by law. Federal law specifically provides for non-citizens to own firearms.
Two; the founders knew the distinction between citizens and non-citizens. “Citizen” was, and is, a term of art. The Constitution uses the word “citizen” eleven times in the Constitution itself, and zero times in the bill of rights. There is a reason the framers specified “Citizens” in terms of elected office, and “the people” in terms of our rights.
Jersey City Shooting
Four people were murdered in Jersey City, New Jersey on Tuesday. Details surrounding the case are still unclear. The first victim, a police officer, was killed by the suspects during an encounter in a cemetery, after which they traveled to a deli where they murdered three more people, but no explanation has been given as to why the slain officer came into contact with the two at the beginning of the chain of events.
What is readily apparent is that the suspects specifically targeted a Jewish market, and the FBI is currently investigating the incident as a domestic terror attack. The latest information seems to indicate that the shooters may have targeted a Jewish school next to the deli.
Even as information on the situation was still being released, gun-grabbing types were lighting up social media with posts pushing for…wait for it…more gun control, which would have had no impact whatsoever on this tragedy.
New Jersey already has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and despite the burdens placed on garden state gun owners, law enforcement reported that at least two lawfully acquired firearms were recovered at the scene. This serves to inform us once again of three things:
- Background checks don’t work, and never will, since only people who expect to pass a background check submit to one. Those who suggest possible connection to hate groups should foreclose gun purchases must understand that the only way a “background check” system could have had any bearing on this situation would be in an Orwellian/Minority report hellscape where the government establishes some sort of “social credit” system, or unless the system were to impose additional unconstitutional burdens on gun purchases such as extensive checks into their social media and private interactions.
- Even if such impositions were to be incorporated into the process of firearms purchases, they won’t work on anyone who became radicalized or joined a hate group after purchasing a firearm. Guns last a long time.
- We continue to see minority communities in oppressive states like New Jersey made into soft targets for criminals. If we care about those communities, we need to respect, foster, and encourage the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms.
Illinois Pulls Millions in Funding From Firearms Licensing Program
A recently uncovered letter sent by the Illinois State Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability indicates that over the last five years, $29,528,778 were pulled from the Firearm Services Fund, Operations Assistance Fund, and Services Fund, all of which are tied to licensing programs such as the Firearms Owner Identification Card and concealed carry permitting.
The Illinois State Rifle Association, working in conjunction with Representative Keith Wheeler (R) of the Illinois General Assembly, conducted an inquiry into the funding practices of the Illinois State Police, which refused to provide further clarification regarding the impact of the transfers to the General Fund and other wholly unrelated funds such as the Workers’ Compensation Revolving Fund.
Northam threatens “Consequences” for 2A Sanctuaries
Following the flip of Virginia’s Legislature, a number of localities in the state have tried to rebuff the litany of pre-filed legislation brought to the state house by new legislators, declaring themselves Second Amendment Sanctuaries. We’ve talked about these before, and most leave us wanting. Still, in response, Northam said: “If we have constitutional laws on the books and law enforcement officers are not enforcing those laws on the books, then there are going to be consequences, but I’ll cross that bridge if and when we get to it.”
Philadelphia’s Big Bedroom Sweep Turns Up Dust
After encouraging parents to invade the bedrooms of their children to look for guns that probably weren’t there in the first place, the City of Philadelphia was proud to announce that on the first day of its gun surrendering program, a grand total of six firearms were turned in. Six firearms, in a city of 1.6 million people. Of the firearms turned in, the organizers received a 1911, revolver, and a lever-action carbine, which we assume was not used in any drive-by shootings. The city has another two collection days scheduled which we expect to be similarly inutile.
‘The Truth About Guns’ is such a curious name for a website that caters to left leaning, nanny state loving cowards.
You’re ridiculous.
Stalinist Troll
Same old tripe pole smoker
Here’s some troll kibble (tosses crumbled dog biscuits on the ground). Have at it.
“Gun Smoker” – more likely Dope smoker.
1000% accurate. This forum is full of profiles pretending to support the Constitution and Bill of rights while openly attacking the individual liberties that form the foundation of this country.
Yay! You did it! You managed to put together a response without referring to the vaxx.
We’re so proud of you. We knew you could do it someday.
DID YOU KNOW???
Vaccines were actually invented by Joseph Mengele????
I saw it in Bitchute today and I am shocked.
“Vaccines were actually invented by Joseph Mengele???? ”
No, they weren’t. Invented by Edward Jenner in 1796, over 200 years ago :
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-history/developments-by-year
But what a *surprise* that a Nazi-lover like you would believe that… 😉
@Geoff
Technically Jenner did not invent vaccines either. He actually discovered them. He was wondering why milk maidens, historically considered beautiful, had such perfect complexion compared to their contemporaries. He observed that in their milking duties they were being inoculated by cow pox, a close relative of small pox that did not affect humans but was close enough to convey immunity to small pox.
I agree with gun smoker. The idea that they use the word “true” just boggles the mind.
I don’t see the word “true”.
It seems your minds may be easily boggled.
Globalist Elite sponsored Deep State is DESPERATE to confiscate our guns.
See Hong Kong for the reasons.
Where have you gone James Campbell?
Right here.
What?
That’s it? Inquiring minds want to know what you have to say on the matter.
My response was to Tea Remorse, not you.
Go upstairs and ask your mom how these comment threads work Gusty.
But that’s all you have to say? It’s usually much more. Maybe you’re losing your mojo.
Hardly.
Hey Gusty, the wife know about the shit you’ve been doing behind her back out there?
No worries, I got the goods and will be sending her an e-mail.
Just watching out for my good buddy Gusty.
Hahahaha, the troll gets doxxed with info on the side, you are dumber than dog shit.
Have fun when the SHTF loser!
the pensacola thing was about one thing and one thing only:
yemen
this saudi guy was an iranian agent or sympathetic to iran
the goals were to drive a wedge between us and saudi arabia and get us to stop training their pilots
its a ruse its a trick its a trap
we shouldnt fall for it
somebody should have seen this coming and took precautions
Were all those Saudis who attacked us on 9/11 in league with Iran too? The Saudis hate us. We should not be in their nation and they should not be in ours. No one from the Middle East should be in the US, and yes that includes Israel.
Every once in a while you’re right, and when that happens, you’re VERY right.
If this nutjob’s goal was to get the US to stop training Saudi pilots or even to cut off all ties with his nation, then maybe he wasn’t such a nut after all. All noncitizens from any Middle Eastern nation should be repatriated immediately and none should be let back in.
Nothing good can come from being involved with the Middle East. If there is such a thing as shithole countries, then that region is the earth’s anus.
No it doesn’t “include Israel”. When last I checked no Israel flew airplanes into any building, anywhere on earth. Israels are not terrorists. Muslims are. If YOU wish to continue posting this ignorant drivel find another site.
Okay Adolf Jr.
Islam commands believers to kill non-believers; it doesn’t matter what country you’re from.
Yes, just as the Old Testament commanded the Israelites to commit genocide in many countries, and take their girl children for themselves. All religions are rooted in genocide.
With the exception of the followers of Buddha, but there’s no real deity in that religion, just enlightened humans.
Islam has no “NEW” testament fool.
Islam teaches an unlimited obligation to kill and enslave all who do not follow Islam.
The nation of Israel was commanded to attack specific nations at a specific time and location as punishment for specific crimes committed by those nations. They were also warned not to repeat those crimes, did so, and suffered the consequences. (The Diaspora)
Do you any slight differences between these two?
The Old Testament is a part of history and does not teach us to take life indiscriminately, This Day and Time. God does NOT command us to take life, kill, for any reason. Thou shall not kill and Turn the other cheek is the message, This day and time.
Miner49er
Interesting. Please provide your citation and source to back up your claim, thanks!
So your position is that the Israelis commission of genocide and taking the young girls of their enemies was justified because their deity commanded it?
And anytime the same deity could again command his followers to slay those around them who they classify as unbelievers?
That is troubling… I am not sure that I would want to allow followers of a deity such as that the ability to own lethal weapons, the religion has already proved itself capable of genocide at the commandment of their sky daddy.
Here in America, we don’t allow that sort of fantasy, we follow the constitution. And there is no mention of Jehovah, God, Allah or any other deity, we live under the rule of just laws created by the representatives of the people.
Diversity is our strength! The new Orwellian mayor Khan slogan.
Saudis are wahhabis, and they are to Islam what the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity. To wahhabis the presence of Christians is an affront because in Saudi Arabia the place for resident Christians is the grave.
I think it’s too early to say what motivated that shooting.
There are reports out there from pretty good sources that at least part of the problem may well have been that the Saudi was given the nickname “Porn ‘Stache” by an instructor. (Because the guy had a pornstar style mustache, which he certainly did).
He filed an official complaint about the whole thing and the paperwork suggests to some degree that he didn’t understand the difference in English between “stash” and “‘stache” and may have believed he was being publicly accused to hording pornography.
We’ll have to see how that whole thing shakes out.
You’re fkn kidding RIGHT????!!!!!
I am not kidding.
Some shit just doesn’t get much media coverage. This is one of those things apparently. The NYT did however break that story and SOFRep has covered it in more detail.
So, according to strych9, being called a name is grounds for mass murder to the upper crust Saudi Royal connected Saudi Nationals currently in the US.
Thanks for the info.
@ James Campbell:
“So, according to strych9, being called a name is grounds for mass murder to the upper crust Saudi Royal connected Saudi Nationals currently in the US.”
Strych9 did not say that. Read it again.
“strych9 says:
December 14, 2019 at 16:35
I think it’s too early to say what motivated that shooting.
There are reports out there from pretty good sources that at least part of the problem may well have been that the Saudi was given the nickname “Porn ‘Stache” by an instructor. (Because the guy had a pornstar style mustache, which he certainly did).
He filed an official complaint about the whole thing and the paperwork suggests to some degree that he didn’t understand the difference in English between “stash” and “‘stache” and may have believed he was being publicly accused to hording pornography.
We’ll have to see how that whole thing shakes out.”
You may need to re-read that DaveG.
The above statement infers the shooting may possibly be attributed to name calling.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what James Campbell has to say on the matter.
Stay classy, San Diego.
Despite the tragedy, this surely made me laugh.
Glad to know I’m not the only one.
“There is a reason the framers specified “Citizens” in terms of elected office, and “the people” in terms of our rights.”
****
Exactamundo. A natural right is a natural right, and our right to self defense pre-dates any U.S. document, and therefore before our nation even existed and The People were mere communities.
The Left’s ultimate goal isn’t to restrict gun ownership to Citizens; it’s to restrict ownership to only those they deem worthy (which starts with their elites).
And their hired protection.
I am so glad to see that POTG grokking the fullness of the framers’ genius in guaranteeing all rights to the people, not just the citizens.
All humans are created equal, whether you’re born in Ethiopia or East LA, whether you’re black brown white red or green, we are all equal in the eyes of Providence.
Bull. Non-citzens get the Dec of Independence – from God. They are NOT members of the Club US, with Constituional rights, unless we invite them in (thru citizenship). Settled in other areas a 150yrs ago.
Should not be an issue since anyone who is not a natural born citizen should not be in the country long enough to buy a gun.
That’s right. All you Europeans can GTFO.
We conquered you losers, fair and square.
No. The Spanish beat his injun ancestors and breed his great great great great ………… grandma. Is he going to deport his mouth or his ass back to Spain?
to PROUD chicano
You do know that white people who speak Spanish raped murdered and conquered the indian peoples of North America, Central America and South America??? I fact those same white Spanish speakers still have their foot on the necks of the descendants of those same indian peoples. The northern Mexicans (light skinned) and the Southern Mexicans (dark skinned) have low intensity warfare going on now.
Ya that’s right I said it.
btw
What Spanish speaking nation has a 2A in its Constitution??? Do They even have a Constitution???
If my memory still serves me Mexico confiscated the guns of law abiding people after the 1968 Mexico city olympics riots.
Am I wrong?
You’re not wrong, you’re just an asshole.
Do you mean like no WASPish person subjugated, massacred, or discriminated against any Native Americans (not to mention people of other ethnic groups). Just blame those evil Spanish speaking Europeans, if only they could have been as kind to others as English speaking (or French, Dutch, German, Belgian, Norwegian, Russian, Greek, Turkish, Roman, etc., speaking) have been.
to Gun Smoker
fyi
“The number of civilian casualties reported has ranged between four — in the official count directly after the event — and 3,000”
Mexico’s 1968 Massacre: What Really Happened?
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97546687
Spanish, Muslims, native Americans, Africans, made northern European tribes look like rank amateurs. Most blacks were sold off into slavery by other black tribes. Spanish colonies has a magnitude of order more slaves than English colonies. Old central and south American civilizations had lots of native American slaves and human sacrifices. Muslims were way ahead of northern Europeans in amount and utilization of slaves.
Proud wetback…..stfu….
Get yer azz back across that border
Hey PROUD chicano, If you are what you profess by your screen name, why are you still here?
You and all the other PROUD chicanos need to GTFO and go back to Mexico to straighten it out. Any person from a South American country that claims to have ANY “pride”, need to go home and fight for citizens rights, reduced corruption, and take it back from the drug cartels.
Or are you stating you’re just a PROUD thug criminal that has the same dark soul as the criminals in your home country.
Wave that foreign flag with pride here in the US, while what you claim pride in dies.
Mexico is not in South America you dimwit. Straighten your geography dimwit.
James Campbell: the answer to a question no one asked.
Well aware of geography. Included the SA countries with Mexico for a reason idiot.
If all Americans of European descent suddenly left, more than 70% of the population here, what do you think would happen?
Sorry but I’m banging one of your women, so I kind of have to be here.
Good for you.
She is probably with you because we all used her up long before you got here.
Enjoy our leftovers.
Curious, how do our dicks taste?
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what James Campbell has to say on the matter.
Stay classy, San Diego. Not like class-less Campbell here who writes class-less things like above.
Hey Gusty, If I wanted to hear from an asshole, I would just fart.
What do our thoughtful, well meaning members of Congress think about the NJ shooting?
Rashida Tlaib blames ‘white supremacy’ for New Jersey shooting
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/rashida-tlaib-blames-white-supremacy-for-new-jersey-shooting
Tlaib has also been criticized for posing with terrorist sympathizers. In January, she was photographed with a Hezbollah supporter, and in September she posed for a photo with a youth group that advocates for violence against Israel.
Let’s see what happens to Tlaib, Omar, and AOC in next year’s elections. I doubt their constituents were truly aware of their true character until after they won, grabbed the spotlight, and opened their mouths.
In regards to Tlaib specifically, remember how she said this in front of the cameras only hours after being sworn into office?:
“…we’re gonna impeach the motherf**cker!!…”
Showed her stripes and her lack of class right out of the gate. Let’s hope her district is wiser for it now.
I haz an answer…Talib’s constitutes will no doubt send her back to Washington. Dearborn is a moose-lim paradise. Occasional Cortex dunno. The gal from Minnesota? She should be indicted for fraud and theft. But won’t be…no I don’t think the “framers” intended to arm Saudi terrorists. They certainly DIDN’T want their slaves armed!!!
See Dred Scott ruling. Blacks and Indians were not permitted citizenship as then they could have guns.
Sorry I Haz A Question.
I have a question too, in fact a lot of them and it involves exposing the truth.
Unlike most lying Republican’s Tlaib kept her promise that is exactly what she did she impeached the mutherfker.
And AOC is probably the no. 1 Star Democrat in the U.S. today and if she were eligible to run for President would push aside Biden in a heart beat and win the election.
I would like to see Omar be reelected because she is whipping the old guard Democrats into line and reminding them what kind of party they used to be. A party of the people.
All in all I love all 3 because I love to see the White Racist Nazi’s foam at the mouth every time they are in the news.
“The Squad” is kicking ass and that’s what we pay them to do, expose the Gangster Criminal Bought off Republicans every time they screw the American people out of lower drug prices and affordable health care.
There is no greater enemy of the American people. Even Kim Jong-un looks angelic next to the Gangster Criminal Republicans because Kim has killed only 1 American while the Gangster Republicans killed 1,500 people last year due to lack of affordable health care. The no good Bastards laughed at the Democratically passed bill to lower Medicare drug costs by screaming they would get less bribes and payola from the Criminal Drug Industry if they made less money next year, as if the billions they made were not enough.
We live in a sick, sick country where life is cheap, people drop dead in the streets with no money for life saving drugs and healthy children are slaughtered weekly sitting in schools. The entire country and the government has become an insane asylum under Herr Drumpf and his Nazi bastards, many of which have already been sent to jail. What does that tell the people who are still sane in this country and they are certainly not shouting and screaming Heil Drumpf and his former lackey’s now sitting in jail are not singing and dancing to the sound of Herr Drumpfs jack boots.
You act like all these things happened like flipping a switch the second Trump got elected. If you’re worried about what’s happening under Trump, you should’ve been worried back when Clinton, Bush, and especially Saint Barack were in office. All the same problems, but you probably thought it was paradise because a “progressive” was in charge.
Who did she impeach? You actually believe Trump was impeached? You need a civics class if you do.
your quotes
“We live in a sick, sick country where life is cheap, people drop dead in the streets with no money for life saving drugs and healthy children are slaughtered weekly sitting in schools. The entire country and the government has become an insane asylum”
you do understand all of that has happened under 16 plus years of DNC rule and your side did not fix it when in power???
blame yourselves
I’m not even going to reply to most of this. I’m just going to bring up a single thing that a lot of people here do.
“mutherfker”
Seriously? Just fucking say it. Here, watch, I’ll do it. MOTHERFUCKER. I’ll use it in a sentence too: “Tom is a motherfucker.” Holy motherfucking shit dude, maybe an angle just lost it’s wings or something because I didn’t intentionally misspell that to get past a non-existent language filter.
TTAG has a pretty good free speech policy that doesn’t edit this stuff out or deny your post. On top of that you’re not saving anyone anything. Everyone who reads “mutherfker” knows damn right well what that means and actually reads it in their head AS “motherfucker”. The same way there’s no mystery as to what I mean if I write “c**t”. Christ, Carlin did a skit on this how many decades ago? (The FCC just LOVED that one btw.)
If you don’t like impolite language then don’t use it but if you’re gonna curse just do it. Don’t half-ass your cussing with intentional misspellings or asterisks. Just use your words, dirty as they might be.
Otherwise you’re like John Travolta in Grease trying to be a hardass like Alex in A Clockwork Orange but not actually being brave enough and you end up like Dominic Greene in Quantum Of Solace. A wannabe hardass stuck in the desert sucking down some antifreeze because you couldn’t reach down into your pants and find some balls.
To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.
I like to think the 1,500 people killed themselves because they were too stupid to earn enough money to pay for their healthcare needs and the needs of their family. Democrats expect the government to take care of them and their family while Republicans think its their own responsibility to take care of themselves and their family.
The “squad” seems to have integrity issues, but that’s okay since they’re on your side. Ocasio Cortez still doesn’t understand socialism, but that’s also okay, she’s there to “kick ass” and say stuffs like “it’s cool, awesome, I love it, I am so excited, free stuff….” A party of the people? Bwahahaha, you are on another planet.
And yet nobody is fleeing into kimmy’s korean paradise. Instead he has to have people shot to keep them in. Idiots like you are an insult to every person that has ever suffered under real tyranny. How many of you trump haters have been drug off to camps? Hmm oh ya ZERO, but please do continue to scream “NAZI!” at every one you disagree with so anyone who is not a frothing fanatic can see what deranged fools you are.
By the way how many orders of magnitude more than 1500 minority children did democrat supported abortion kill every year for decades.
Yes. Communism is the people’s paradise where things are wonderful all the time. A proven track record.
@strych9,
Personal choice. I prefer not to used certain words, and have never used the ‘f’ word in my life. I’ll leave it to others to use if they wish.
When the Governor of Virginia calls out the National Guard to go door to door in the Sanctuary Counties that refuse to abide by the Stae’s unconstitutional enactments it is going to bring havoc to those counties. The President should then Federalize their Guard to go door to door looking for illegal aliens. In either situation, it is going to result in shootings and deaths. Today this Governor who favors the killing of born babies has also clearly shown the totalitarian nature of the ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC Party. Should they win control of all branches of the federal government we will a complete steamrolling of every one of the Bill of Rights!! Look, pay attention and learn Americans! I predicted that the Governor would use the National Guard to enforce their gun control laws when they first passed them and it appears he will do just that!! I wonder just how many members of the Guard know that the oath they took was to support and defend the U.S. Constitution which includes the 2nd Amendment?
“I wonder just how many members of the Guard know that the oath they took was to support and defend the U.S. Constitution which includes the 2nd Amendment?” I would bet just about all of them. The problem doesn’t lie with the National Guard but with the Legislators, Elected Officials, and the people who vote for them.
This retired guard member has no doubt as to what his duties and responsibilities are. Issuing me orders to confiscate guns would be a mistake.
That is assuming the rank and file obey their orders. On the first day of the confiscations many guard officers will die the great cause. Post mortem examination will show more wounds in the back than the front.
Real Patriots will not relish that day and try to avoid it as long as possible. When the time comes, they will however, do what they have to do.
I believe there are enough folks in law enforcement and the army (or national guard) to enforce anti constitutional laws. Many will just say “it’s just another order, the law is the law, I need that paycheck and pension….” and those who refuse will most likely step back and that’s about it.
An MP called the cops on that contractor in NY, another case of “just following orders, the law is the law.” It’s fairly easy to convince yourself you’re just an average guy following orders and it’s really not your fault if it’s a bad thing.
this was a deliberate wording of the law/louphole. pistols are used for hunting humans only .not big game ..some states allow short-firearms[pistols ]for hunting HOGS, and a wahiabbi-muslim will not get caught dead hunting pigs of any kind. pigs-hogs-swine-porkers. anything porcine related is PROSCRIBED BY SHARIA LAW.. FOR ANY MUSLIM .
Uhhhhh, hate to break it to you skippy but in the great state of WA it is most certainly acceptable to handgun hunt as long as it’s over .22 caliber. Took last years buck with a 1911 chambered in 10mm, quiet possibly one of the most challenging and difficult hunts I’ve done. Cut it out with this “handguns only hunt humans” tripe.
“pistols are used for hunting humans only”
I don’t hunt, and I know that’s crap.
I also know that you can find for yourself that what you said is crap.
That makes you willfully ignorant, the worst kind of ignorant.
I have no idea why someone like like you (willfully ignorant) would want to go on a forum (ANY forum) and display his ignorance.
Well, wait, that’s not true. I do know why. It’s because you are actually so ignorant that you think no one else in the world could possibly prove you wrong.
And yet, it’s really easy to do so.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=can+handguns+be+used+to+hunt%3F
The Bill of Rights is all about acknowledging the God Given Rights we all have, regardless if we are here on a Green Card or not. They don’t just belong to American Citizens. That said, being an American Citizen, isn’t one of them.
Sooo…….”God-given” rights are void where prohibited? God created this whole wide world, populated it with his creations, but denied the majority of them the freedom to live as citizens in the U.S.? God further empowered the Framers to represent this limitation of rights within the Bill of Rights?
That sounds very silly to me. How can God establish universal human rights, but allow the U.S. government to determine who may exercise those rights on America? That sounds like the old divine right of kings B.S.
I didn’t say that God Given Rights were void where prohibited. What I did say, and I will clarify it, just for you, is that God has imbued us with certain rights. Some of these, we have acknowledged in the constitution. Being an American Citizen is obviously not a God Given Right. But that doesn’t mean that God Given Rights don’t belong to non-citizens.
Correct, and all those illegal immigrants here in America are people, with all the rights granted in the constitution.
We thank Providence daily for these rights here in America, granted to the people, not just the citizens.
It’s interesting to see the actual mos of the Virginia national guard. MP is the only unit capable of doing anything. They also have cable installers and MLRS crewmen. Don’t want to be hit by a MLRS but I’m not too worried
Was Northam wearing black face or a Klan hood when he made that statement?
Black face under a klan hood.
Think the scene from Blazing Saddles.
“Look… it’s coming off”
So how about unconstitutional laws? Can the Guard arrest people who passes them?
Let’s say the Governor of VA activates the National Guard to assist state and local law enforcement after issuing a decree to confiscate weapons. It presents a legal and Constitutional dilemma as to whether the individuals given the order will either disobey or carry it out because it basically violates the Oath each member takes when enlisted or commissioned.
Such an order will lead to a lot of chaos. There will be a lot of infighting within the chain of command and I for one hope the more sensible officers prevail by not only disobeying the order, but arresting – with armed force, if necessary – the sons of b*tches who attempt to implement any such order.
Just like the police in so many states, there is no doubt in my mind they will just follow orders. Remember the people may pay taxes, but we as individuals don’t sign their pay checks. Follow orders or lose the paycheck, easy answer there. “Just following orders and enforcing law” just like the nazi scum our previous generation killed.
I don’t agree.
Several years ago, I spoke with NG people about that. While those under E5 would in all likelihood be confused by an order to enforce an unconstitutional, they would probably, in most cases, follow the orders of their higher chain of command despite any quibbles of conscience.
However, NonComs above E5, and officers above O3, are rather well schooled in the law as stated by the constitution, and would probably tell the governor to pound sand.
It has been put forth that the Governor would remove those who would refuse to follow an illegal order, but this would cause lower ranks to question just why this was done, and the “official” line of, “They refused to obey a lawful order” would be questioned by most lower ranks, and the order would be discussed widely.
Add to that the fact that NG personnel would be asked to enforce such a law against their own state citizens, and the questioning would intensify.
NG personnel differ from LEOs in that their pay doesn’t rely solely on their participation in the NG, but rather their NG pay is, at best, supplemental to their regular paycheck, so the idea that they obey of lose their pay isn’t really true.
When the governor calls up the NG, it isn’t nationalized, so any governor can’t count on out of state NG units to come into his/her state to do their wishes, such as the individual members have no ties to the people they are asked to police.
What this means, IMO, is that calling up the National Guard to help enforce unconstitutional law would have very limited effect.
Regarding the Pensacola thing, the Saudi’s are a very rich country & should be training their own people, with maybe American trainers over there in Saudi Arabia, not here, if your looking for a motive, just read a little bit of the Quran, , ain’t hard to understand what their motive is. Americans are considered Infidels , these people are potentially sleeper cells, just like the war I fought in, their nice to your face, but when the calling comes, we found the same nice guys& gals hanging in the wire after the fight. WORD, anyone that don’t believe that is just another traitor like ohh, let’s say ,,, John Kerry, Bergdall, Fonda, ect…
John Kerry?
The one who left a Cush birth in the Bluewater navy, volunteered for the brown water Navy in the Mekong Delta and won a silver star? The one who went back in under fire and fished a Green Beret out of the drink? The one who left the boat and killed the VC with the RPG?
Yeah, just as big a traitor as John McCain.
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and holding a Bible.
Ya that dork that made everything worse for me and my MEN, that ass…, lying piece of shit , that one.!
Yeah, the TWIT that shot himself with his own pistol… got his boat shot up and got a Purple Heart because he lied to his commander about the incident. I the stories you recall were told by him you KNOW they are BOGUS. Same guy who threw someone ELSE’S medals over a wall in “Protest” and got a cover shot out of it… Gee what an American FRAUD.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍If it wasn’t for his family’s name , he would have been demoted. Same as another ass from the same era that everyone thinks was a hero… if you weren’t there you have no idea.
“The one who left a Cush birth in the Bluewater navy, volunteered for the brown water Navy in the Mekong Delta…”
The bluewater navy wasn’t going to win him any recognition, and even then Kerry was ambitious. Of course he transferred to another organization.
“…and won a silver star?”
That was not a heroic action. Kerry was not under fire that day. The swift boat hit a mine. No one was shot at. After the mine detonated, the danger was over for anyone who not on the stricken boat.
Some other fun facts about Kerry:
-hobnobbed with F100 terrorists in Paris during the peace talks
-ibeled Admiral Roy Hoffman, saying officer in charge of the swift-boat mission, had “a genuine taste for the more unsavory aspects of warfare” and sought “splashy victories in the Mekong Delta”, that’s from Kerry’s campaign biography
– testified in Congress, without evidence, that fellow Americans routinely “had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war.”
-Kerry did not, in fact spend Christmas in Cambodia
Frankly good sir, you are lying about a patriotic American service man.
Your post:
“ “…and won a silver star?”
That was not a heroic action. Kerry was not under fire that day. The swift boat hit a mine. No one was shot at. After the mine detonated, the danger was over for anyone who not on the stricken boat.”
The facts are a matter of public record, and I can only conclude that you are some sort of Russian disinformation agent, casting doubt on America’s heroes.
“Only eight days later, on February 28, came the incident for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. On this occasion, Kerry was in tactical command of his Swift boat and two others. Their mission included bringing a demolition team and dozens of South Vietnamese soldiers to destroy enemy sampans, structures and bunkers. Along the Bay Hap river, they ran into an ambush. Kerry directed the boats “to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions” and he “expertly directed” his boat’s fire and coordinated the deployment of the South Vietnamese troops, according to Admiral Zumwalt’s original medal citation.
After the South Vietnamese troops and a team of three U.S. Army advisors that were with them had disembarked at the ambush site, Kerry’s boat and another headed up river to look for the fleeing enemy. The two boats came under fire from a Viet Cong B-40 rocket-propelled grenade, shattering the crew cabin windows of PCF-94. Kerry ordered the boats to turn and charge the second ambush site. As they reached the shore, a Viet Cong soldier jumped out of the brush, carrying a loaded B-40 launcher. With the enemy soldier only a short distance away from the boat and crew, forward gunner Tommy Belodeau shot him in the leg with the boat’s 7.62×51mm caliber M-60 machine gun. “Tommy in the pit tank winged him in the side of the legs as he was coming across,” Fred Short said. “But the guy didn’t miss a stride. I mean, he did not break stride.” Belodeau’s machine gun jammed after he fired, and while crewmate Michael Medeiros attempted to fire, he was unable to do so. Kerry leaped ashore and, followed by Medeiros, pursued the man and killed him. The medal citation notes that Kerry “then led an assault party and conducted a sweep of the area” until the enemy had “been completely routed.” The mission was judged highly successful for having destroyed numerous targets and confiscated substantial combat supplies while sustaining no casualties.
Kerry’s commanding officer, Lieutenant George Elliott, joked that he didn’t know whether to court-martial him for beaching the boat without orders or give him a medal for saving the crew. Elliott recommended Kerry for the Silver Star, and Zumwalt flew into An Thoi to personally award medals to Kerry and the rest of the sailors involved in the mission. The Navy’s account of Kerry’s actions is presented in the original medal citation signed by Zumwalt. In addition, the after-action reports for this mission are available, along with the original press release written on March 1, a historical summary dated March 17, and more.”
Fascism is already in America, miner. Antifa is its brown shirts and you are one of its supporters.
to miner 49er
Fascism is already here wrapped in an Antifa flag holding a dildo in one hand and a Joint in the other.
People like you are easily distracted by “bread and Circuses”. See San francisco, Portland, Seattle etc.
“Yeah, just as big a traitor as John McCain.”
So true. You are aware the other POWs in the prison camp referred to McCain as “Songbird John”, right?
Interesting. Please provide your citation and source to back up your claim, thanks!
A Google search brings up dozens of results. Even ex-US Generals discussing this fact.
Pick a source for yourself.
James Campbell says: “A Google search brings up dozens of results. Even ex-US Generals discussing this fact.”
The number of results of a Google (or any other search engine) search doesn’t even hint at the contents of those pages counted.
The fact that an ex AF general repeated the claim doesn’t mean the claim is true.
The rest of us can actually read the pages included in the results,and see that you obviously didn’t read them.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=songbird+john+mccain
A none citizen of the USA should not have the freedom to obtain a firearm period! If they cannot vote by law the they absolutely should not have the right of private ownership of any firearm.
..
So… I live in Canada, where I am legally allowed to own and transport firearms, including handguns. I get transferred to Florida you expect me to just give up my hobby? Sell my guns and that’s it? I’d be paying taxes and doing all the same shit you’d all be doing except voting. Why should I not be allowed to own a gun? I’m actually looking forward to a little more freedom, not less.
Seriously, try that in Mexico.
Sorry, you’re from Canada so you’re not white enough to actually have human rights.
And many of you great White North folks speak with a Frenchy accent, right?
Don’t you people have socialized medicine, with the better outcomes at lower cost?
Well that’s it, stay the hell out!
I don’t speak French and I don’t think I have a French accent. People in North Carolina make fun of the way I say “about” They claim I say “aboot”. Our socialized health care system has left me without a family physician for almost three years now. If I did have one, and they suspected something was wrong, I’d have to wait months for an MRI. So too bad. I’m coming anyway.
Damn Miner, you are truly stupid.
Dumb as they come.
If you’re looking for more freedom, then welcome.
That kind of conflicts with the whole premise that the 2nd Amendment recognizes a God Given Right. Either it’s a right given by God or it isn’t. If it comes from the government, then the government can take it away. I would take the position that denying 2nd Amendment Rights to legal aliens supports the premise that the government can them deny them to anybody.
You’re talking LEGAL Aliens, Green Cards….. but ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE FELONS and as such HAVE NO RIGHT to own a firearm. They do have a right to be DEPORTED as soon as they are identified. I’m a first-gen immigrant… my folks were LEGALS and EVERY ILLEGAL makes their sacrifices to do it RIGHT into a mockery, and helps DESTROY America more. Easily verified by looking at different neighborhoods. Legals are picky about taking great care of everything from their lawns to the paint on their homes and the cars they drive. Then you go to the trashiest area you can find and it’s 80% or more illegals, they brought the CRAP attitudes and lifestyles FROM their point of origin and have little interest in making things better. You can disagree but that’s NOT refutation!
“…but ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE FELONS…”
Not unless they have been caught and deported, and then return.
Frank,
It took me 14 years and 20K to become a US citizen the legal way. US citizenship is one of the most coveted things on earth and should be a difficult thing to gain, that being said I came here for firearms freedom, the right to self defense is a natural right and a firearm is the best tool for such a job. If you are in the US legally on a visa or green card you should be able to legally purchase a firearm(s) including NFA items.
I shouldn’t be able to defend myself or my family because I haven’t lived here for long enough?
Northam is correct. There will be consequences……Civil War.
Guess it won’t be the first time Virginia was on the wrong side of a Civil War.
A Non citizen/Illegal Alien should not be afforded any Rights under the Constitution. Any Politician,Judge,Church,lawyer or Organization. Who offers said Rights or protections. Should be removed from Society. Without fail or Mercy. The time is nigh to decide what direction Our Nation goes. The evil perpetrated against the Citizenry by those wishing to destroy the Freedoms and Rights. That much blood was spilled to attain must be rectified. Freedom is slowly being destroyed by a death of a thousand cuts. By Tyrants wishing to transform a Nation of Free People into a Nation of Subjects. Our Fore Fathers and thousands of Patriots spilled their blood on the very ground now being occupied. By those destroying the Freedoms they afforded Us today. Will their memory be flushed from the pages of history or will bravery and resolve seize the day.? Vanquishing the Tyrants from Society along with their Evil Ideology. Keep Your Powder Dry.
The justification for the Bill of Rights is predicated on the principle that those Rights are God Given. If you accept the premise that they can be denied purely on the basis of citizenship then your own rights become nothing more than privilege, acknowledged according to the whims of your betters.
Absolutely correct.
Unless you are a racist who thinks that white people are God’s chosen humans, and then it’s just fine to believe they get rights that the brown people don’t.
Thanks for obfuscating noncitizen with illegal. There are many people in this country who are not citizens yet all of whom are here legally. When one is legally granted entry into the US and if one is eligible and applies for citizenship it is not granted immediately. Most lawful permanent residents must wait a full five years before applying for U.S. citizenship and the interview may take another 5-24 months.
So you’re saying I should be like your forefathers and kill people so I can bear arms here?
Did you ever take a class that included punctuation in its lesson plan?
If not, I strongly suggest that you do so at your earliest convenience.
Then your cut-and-paste diatribe would be much easier to read, and debunk as being so much claptrap.
A pivot to grammar.
The CLASSIC move by someone who can’t argue the content of a post.
The post itself was only an opinion, one that has been refuted so many times that even you should be able to see it.
The content of the post was written by someone who has failed to progress past the adolescent. It’s another version of “Nuh Uh!”
How’s that for a refutation?
I have a friend who is a Jordian national. He was a paratrooper in Jordan’s army so we had that in common. He expressed an interest in hunting. He bought a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 with a Leopold scope. Doesn’t get more American than that. Killed his first deer on The Farm. Had to reassure him that deer had no relation to pork before he would eat it. LOL Later sold him a Browing Hi-Power that he used to repel boarders at a convenience store he owned. Good and bad, regardless of race, creed or color. Decide on the individual.
Sorry on this one one I must disagree. Non citizens should not be afforded Constitutional Rights. Once they become Citizens. Constitutional Rights should be afforded without delay. A line Must be drawn. Keep Your Powder Dry.
That line is not citizenship. Either they are God Given, or they are not. If they are granted on the basis of something like citizenship, then they can be revoked for anything. Do you really want to go there?
+1 Good answer, Huntmaster. Spot on.
Do you mean ‘the farm’ near Fairfax?
No. The Farm in N Florida. A thousand acres of paradise. Spent the night at the camp last night. Grilled steaks with sauteed mushrooms, asspaargass and fingering potatoes. Washed it down with a merlot and a nice bourbon. A fire in the pit and stories of firearms and hunting on the tounge.
I ask you this as a retired law enforcement officer in the state Florida. How does a Saudi non citizen purchase a gun in Florida where active law enforcement must wait 5 business days for a handgun purchase and in some counties the 5 day waiting period includes long guns as well.
Once you start down the slope allowing rights to be dispensed by government according to certain requirements, all sorts of reasons can be contrived for the purposes of control. That is what has happened.
Since the gun was reported to have been legally purchased, we must assume the waiting period occurred before the shooting.
“Background checks”
There’s a 2012 study, paid for by the Justice Department, about NICS background checks that resulted in a denial. After 6 million background checks, 1.2% were denied. Now, you’d expect that some of 72,656 1.2%) would be charged with false statement or something. So, the number show that most denials were dropped. The government did get thirteen (13) convictions.
Washington State mandated background checks for all gun “transfers.” At last count the gun control supporters claimed 50 people had been denied. The state over 627,000 background checks in 2018. The number of people charge since 2016? One (1). Plus both the person and the gun are lost.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf
I failed a background check once.
My license had lapsed.
So I’m included in the number of those who failed the check and were not even prosecuted, much less convicted.
How long do I need to stay in hiding?
If your not a citizen of My country you can’t buy a gunm in my country, tuff shit
This is my country also. In my country the 2nd Amendment acknowledges a God Given Right, and therefore is supposed to apply to all his children. foreign national or not, as long as they are are law abiding and not reasonably considered a threat to the rest of us.
There is NOTHING in the Constitution about Rights being Granted by God.. You are mixing the DECLARATION of Independence into a mash-up with the Constitution. Please READ them and you’ll SEE what I mean. Mindless blather without a factual basis makes FOOLS of us all.
The writings of Thomas Jefferson and his contemporaries along with the Declaration of Independence, considered by most Constitutional Scholars to be a preamble to the Constitution, make it abundantly clear that our rights are indeed God Given. To not understand that is ignorant and to deny it foolish.
Huntmaster has quite possibly read the writings of the founding fathers and the people who had a hand in writing and approving the Bill of Rights, as well as the contemporary newspapers where this debate was held in public.
While “God given right” wasn’t mentioned, it is quite clear that “God given right” played a pivotal role in the formulation of the rights laid out in the constitution and BOR.
To deny that is to deny history.
If you decide to make it your opinion that such rights should only apply to citizens when it is quite plain to all that the writers and signatories disagree with you is certainly your right. But having the right to an opinion doesn’t make that opinion right.
John, first Jimmy is Jordanian not Saudi. Second, this was back in the day when there was no waiting period. Third, the waiting period in Florida is three days unless you have a CCW permit. Then none. Last our rights are ours by virtue of standing on top of the dirt and breathing free air. God gave those rights to everyone on the planet. Everyone. Some governments restrict those rights to greater or lesser degrees. Just because someone is a forgien national doesn’t mean they gave them up. Don’t know about yours, but my ancestors came to North America so they could exercise those rights.
What you say may be true in Free State of North Florida. But here in the Soviet Socialist Democratic Republic of South Florida the waiting period is five business days (weekend days don’t count so don’t bother coming back for your purchase for at least a week) for ordinary Comrades and none for CCW permit holders.
The majority of people visiting here do not buy guns to kill Americans. I think the racist white Nazi’s all screaming Sieg Heil Herr Drumpf should realized this. When people buy guns to hunt it not only keeps the firearms people in business but all the industries connected to hunting as well. Foreign people who come to hunt are well to do, and they spend lots of money here on hotels, cloths,cell phones etc. the list is endless. They do not come alone they often bring their wives as well and they love to shop and buy lots of consumer items.
What we have here is White Racist Nazi Tribalistic mass hysteria. If we had only 1 murder per hundred years they still would be screaming from the roof tops and shouting Heil Drumpf, Heil Drumpf , Heil Drumpf.
Could we improve background checks, yes we could. And if we had mental health tests before purchase of a gun then this current nut case would never have passed the test. So we only have our own gun laws to blame as they are both inadequate and often do not even exist when they should i.e. a firearms purchase card after a background and mental health check. We have our own citizen nut cases mass murdering people every day in this country.
Are you always an idiot or did you practice up just for us? In case you are uneducated and simply didn’t KNOW… the NAZI’s were the National Socialist Party in Germany. They acted almost EXACTLY like your heros, AOC, Tlaib, and the rest. Hitler’s Brownshirts, that killed jews and other dissidents were EXACTLY like Anti-Fa. Who, though they claim to be AntiFascist ARE Fascists because NO ONE IS ALLOWED FREE SPEECH IN FASCIST controlled country…. Before you run off at the mouth again you might want to LEARN SOME HISTORY and avoid PROVING how foolish you are. Many of my relatives were KILLED BY NAZIS and you obviously don’t know dick about it!!
You can’t make logical point like that and expect a response from another planet Ed.
Sorry Bud you flunked History. Hitler was a populist, A super Nationalist, A racist, an immigrant hater, a Religious bigot, a refugee hater, and he busted unions, actually lowered gun restrictions except for Jews, and he privatized a lot of government institutions and social programs. Hitler persecuted and murdered Liberal people and politicians and ditto for all people who where German Communists.. That is a 100 per cent definition of our current Racist Republican Herr Drumpf lovers.
Your understanding of European style Socialism is about zero and your understanding of the History of the reign of Hitler is at absolute zero.
Then obviously we also need a menta2 health test and licensing plan for people to vote. Of voice political opions in a public forum.
I’ve said that a lot here and on Facebook, but never get a reply.
That would cause LANDSLIDE lelection losses for the Dumbocrats.
Those retards elect reps who think stationing troops in Guam will cause the island to “turn over”.
Own your retards left.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what James Campbell has to say on the matter.
Stay classy, San Diego.
“…the racist white Nazi’s all screaming Sieg Heil Herr Drumpf…”
Examples?
“Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!”
That’s how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as “an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world.”
Mass murders every day? No. If we required mental health tests before one could purchase internet access we could however be spared you boorish diatribes, and bad writing
Red Flag for First Amendment rights, don’t leave the Second all alone as the orphan Amendment.
Mr. Northam
So when you say sanctuary for illegal alien lawbreakers (COUGH !!! AKA future DNC voters cough) its fine ot have locals BREAK FEDERAL laws
buy you pass a law BREAKING the 2nd am and its ROLL in the tanks time?
Noted!!!
Rifling through your kids bedroom is one of the quickest ways to utterly obliterate family trust, its right up there with wiretapping the internet, going through their phone, and putting a nanny cam in their bedroom, the last of which may be federally legal because if they undress in front of it, congrats, you just made CP.
Speaking of which that reminds me of the time I ruffled through my dads drawers and found a giant dildo.
The Dems aren’t big on family.
Most welfare directed at helping families support themselves encourage the fathers to leave.
Abortion has the direct effect of reducing families.
In point of fact, after the so called Great Society act was passed the democrats wrote the rules to require that families receiving aid, called the AFDC program, could NOT have a man in the house. This lead to the skyrocketing divorce rate among minorities, mostly black, families. Also saw a dramatic increase in the number of babies born out of wedlock. More babies, more money. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan spoke forcefully against the bill in the Senate. He accurately predicted exactly what we have today in the minority population.
The lines are being drawn and they roughly resemble the Electoral College, the high crime rates and of course existing political loyalties. In other words, the lines eventually will settle around the largest cities, high crime rates and the 63 counties in which they’re concentrated.
Almost 70 percent of the counties should be expected to declare allegiance to the Constitution and refusal to enforce laws that violate it. That would be the total of 1,700 counties that have no murders plus 472 counties with only one murder per year.
Within 2nd Amendment sanctuary lines we should find states with few electors. Their strength will naturally ally with sparsely populated counties in states with many electors. They’re the counties that control all the food and water, wood products, oil and gas, wind turbines, hydroelectric power, minerals, highways, bridges, utility easements, access to most of the lakes, national and state parks, most natural resources and countless other life sustaining necessities.
They’re much more likely to be armed and far less likely to surrender to the likes of any state or federal government official. They’re also more willing and able to survive deprivation of food, water, fuel and power. Perhaps most importantly, they have sheriffs who enforce laws within vast expanses of land and access to it. All these people are far more willing to fight for the constitutional republic rather than surrender it to democrat domination.
Regarding Northam’s threat, President James Madison said: “…local or municipal authorities form distinct and independent portions of the supremacy, no more subject, within their respective spheres, to the general authority than the general authority is subject to them, within its own sphere.” (Federalist 39)
“There is no lawful authority for judges or a court to direct the law enforcement activities of a county sheriff. He’s not a part of the judiciary, and holds executive power and can set up a court, empanel a jury, and form a militia or posse to protect the rights of those he represents.”
In other words, county sheriffs have the constitutional authority and duty to protect the citizens, by force if necessary, even if it means authorizing a militia.
I used to live in Philly and there has never been a successful”turn in” or Buyback” in that city.
The foreigners buying guns should be better controlled but is necessary for those who come here to hunt but cannot transport firearms.
The people who got the cause of the Jersey shooting wrong should resign from office as the only acceptable form of apology
1. Libertarians Liberals and the Left support child molesters being allowed to come and go as they please across an open US Border.
2. They also support anti-civil rights immigrants becoming an American Citizen. And then work to make the USA a sh#t hole like the one they came from.
David Frum is from Canada
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/inside-the-twisted-mind-of-a-gun-grabber-pt-4-david-frum-edition/
There are many reporters and writers who came here only to work and take away civil rights. They should never be allowed citizenship. Their only here for the $$$$.
“There is a reason the framers specified ‘Citizens’ in terms of elected office, and ‘the people’ in terms of our rights.”
This statement is incomplete; it is left dangling. What does its author imagine that reason (of the framers) was? I’m open to learning what it might be.
If we are original constructionists then words mean something. There must be some distinction implied by “the People” vs. “Citizens”. It’s hard for me to figure out what that might have been at the time of the ratification of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
We have a better idea what that distinction means today; “the People” probably justly includes green-card holders. Perhaps a few others. We can have a meaningful debate about the current application of these terms. But that’s not necessarily what the founders thought; nor the citizens who voted for their state legislators who ratified the BoR.
We might benefit from the insights of scholars as to what the founding generation might have thought about the meaning of these two terms.
In any case, we too often lose sight of the distinction between “all Men” vs. “the People”. We can be certain that the founding generation did not include Tories (Loyalists), native Americans or slaves in the term “the People”.
Therefore, it is simultaneously true that:
1. Our Creator endowed all Men with the right to life;
2. Our Federal Constitution guarantees the right to arms (among a few others) to a sub-set of “the People”; others need not apply.
Our more principled PotG will ignore #2 and hold only to #1. Yet the practical question remains as to whether we are up to the task of passing an amendment to the 2A to change “the People” to “all Men”; or, undertaking a civil war to correct an immoral Constitutional text.
Personally, I think there are bigger fish to fry.
There are certainly some big fish.
I’m curious though if on the off chance that the 2A could be changed to ‘all men’ and not be completely nullified, what the affect would be in reality.
On the surface, this sounds like fodder for race hustlers. It could be interpreted as sexist.
I question wether or not this kind of change would give the 2A enough teeth to then strike down all opposition. I feel like if it doesn’t do that, then why risk the very real chance of on repeal?
“There must be some distinction implied by “the People” vs. “Citizens”. It’s hard for me to figure out what that might have been at the time of the ratification of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. ”
It’s only hard if you fail to read what was being written by not just those who had a hand in writing and approving the constitution, but also the “public forums” of the day: newspapers.
These are available for you to read at your local library.
Black’s Law Dictionary has definitions for “citizen” and “people”. Always, always consult the legal dictionary when looking at legal terms.
A person [People] is a resident of a state or nation, no distinction to sex, age, or otherwise.
A Citizen can vote.
With this reading, “the right of The People to keep and bear arms” makes perfect sense. … and an age limit on RKBA is not allowed by the legal definition of “people”.
Black’s 2nd Ed. also has this cryptic entry under “People”:
“But when reference is made to the people as the repository of sovereignty, or as the source of governmental power, or to popular government, we are in fact speaking of that selected and limited class of citizens to whom the constitution accords the elective franchise and the right of participation in the offices of government.”
So, perhaps the Second Amendment refers to “Citizens”.
But all that doesn’t matter to the non-citizens posting comments about having a RTBA in the US. The vast majority are to the left of moderate, so words can mean ANYTHING they want then to mean.
Have a nice day means IMPEACH TRUMP to this dimwits.
Have a nice day means IMPEACH TRUMP to THESE (not this) dimwits.
“So, perhaps the Second Amendment refers to “Citizens”.”
I don’t think so, because the second amendment is a recognition of a right, not a formula or rule as to who can participate in the granting of that right.
IOW, “people” as used in the 2A, doesn’t have anything to do with the “repository of sovereignty, or as the source of governmental power, or to popular government,” so “people” here clearly falls in Perry’s posted definition of “people.”
There are many non-citizens that reside in the US legally and therefore are guaranteed that same rights as everyone else. If their rights are denied due to being a foreigner then not only is the 2nd amendment being violated but so is federal discrimination law since discrimination on the basis of race and/or national origin is illegal under federal law.
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