http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwp2FnRmsE&skipcontrinter=1
“I can guarantee an attack of this magnitude will cause Norwegians to demand stricter gun control as a response,” ex-TTAG commentator Jadegold prognosticates over at MikeB302000‘s joint. “Why? Because they understand they have a problem and are willing to work to prevent other such tragedies.” Under the inflammatory title The NRA Comes to Norway, JG has wastes no time vilifying those who support armed self-defense and championing aspiring gun grabbers—without providing any factual information on Norwegian gun culture and laws, or how killer Anders Behring Breivik obtained his firearm. For the first part of that missing info, one need only turn to the the hive mind at wikipedia.org:
To own a gun in Norway, one must document a use for the gun. By far, the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self defence, but the first is rare and the second is practically never accepted as a reason for gun ownership . . .
The ownership of a firearm is considered a serious responsibility in Norway. Thus, the law for storage of firearms are strict.
For shotguns and rifles, the requirement given in the weapons act is to have the firearm, or a vital part of it, securely locked away. Generally, this means an approved gun safe, securely bolted to a non-removable part of the house. (A vital part is considered to be the bolt group—the bolt head will suffice—for rifles, the slide for pistols, or the barrel of a shotgun.)
The police are allowed to make a home inspection of the safe. An inspection must be announced more than 48 hours in advance, and the police are only allowed to see the safe and make sure it is legally installed.
Ammunition, sold only to persons able to show a valid firearm license, must be locked away but can be stored with the firearms. Without a special permit only 10,000 rounds of ammunition can be stored by a single person, or 15,000 rounds if 5,000 of them are 22.LR or smaller calibre. Two kg of black powder may be stored in a separate building if the person has a license for a black powder firearm.
The truth about Norwegian gun ownership: its citizens are prohibited from owning guns for defensive purposes. They do, however, keep a large number of long guns for hunting and “sporting purposes.” In short, as we’ve seen again and again,”tight” gun control laws do not prevent spree killing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPQTvQwhwWQ&feature=player_embedded#at=148
As for Breivik’s motivations, the crux of the matter is simple enough, as scotsman.com reports . . .
Police said later that the suspect had right-wing and anti-Muslim views, but the motive for the attacks was unclear, and one described it as “a madman’s work”. Police initially said about ten were killed at Utoya, but early today police director Oystein Maeland said they had discovered many more victims.
“It’s taken time to search the area. What we know now is that we can say that there are at least 80 killed at Utoya,” Mr Maeland said. “It goes without saying that this gives dimensions to this incident that are exceptional.”
Mr Maeland warned that the death toll could rise and said others were severely injured.
A police official said the suspect appeared to have acted alone in both attacks and “it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organisations at all”.
“This seems like a madman’s work,” he added.
Left-leaning armchair analysts are already claiming that the Norwegian murderer’s access to a “high-powered rifle” turned a “right wing” nutcase into a killing machine. Which is both true and, ultimately, besides the point.
No matter how what Breivik believed or how he obtained his weapons (including fertilizer for a bomb), the youth camp where Breivik opened fire was an unprotected free-fire zone. No one in charge paid attention to a gigantic security breach (the killer dressed as a policeman). The cops didn’t arrive at the scene for somewhere between 30 minutes and two hours.
Would I want my kids summer camp protected by an armed guard (e.g. a conceal carry counselor)? Is it horrific to think that way? Yes I would and yes it is. But that is the world we live in. Obviously.
Interesting well made video RF, but what does any of it have to do with killing children at a summer camp?? Am I too sane to figure it out?
jd
Good question.
The summercamp was a political camp for young norwegian labourparty members. I’d guess he did it to demonstrate against the labourpowerd norway.
I know this because I am too a victim of Utøya. But I don’t know if it was his motiv to demonstrate against the labourparty in Norway, but the fact that it was a labourparty camp sure does make one think.
I hope he wasn’t singling out the children of a specific political party, but that is likely the case from what we’ve seen so far. It is hard to imagine though that there are summer camps according to political persuation. That would be like our having a summer camp for the children of Democrats only — or Republicans only. Certainly not too many lively and spirited conversations and debates around the old campfire at night. Perhaps that is the problem is social polarity developing in Norway and elsewhere in Europe. Social polarity can ignite in the end, and Europeans, regardless of political persuasion are known for their killing proficiency from way back.
I don’t want my children protected by an armed guard at summer camp, but if one or more of the camp leaders has a CCW, let ’em carry. Actually, PLEASE let them carry, I prefer it that way.
The last Cub Scout trip I was on, the Cubmaster read the rules which included “no firearms”. I kept my mouth shut about the Mossberg 500 in the trunk of my car and the CZ P07 in the glove box. I will not go camping without some form of self-protection, be it on a Scout trip or out with friends.
I am an assistant scoutmaster and those rules are sort of open ended to protect the BSA. If you read them another way, then there is nothing that says you cannot have a couple of ready weapons on hand. Just make sure that they are secure and you and a couple of designated leaders have access and agree beforehand on an emergency plan. A Mossberg 500 is a good choice. If your particular troop is dead set against guns, it might be time to look for another troop.
Yes a Finnish blog I read already is stating that Finland’s gun laws are going to be reviewed (http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/07/gun_laws_to_be_reviewed_2743129.html).
Unfortunately what ultimately could have spared the lives of the youth at that camp would have been armed security, as well as adults at the camp carrying concealed. Unfortunately that appears to be difficult already according to Wikipedia which states “To own a gun in Norway, one must document a use for the gun. By far, the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self defense, but the first is rare and the second is practically never accepted as a reason for gun ownership.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway)
Yeah, I read that. There will be a lot of knee jerk reactions rippling across Europe. I even read an article and forum from the Philippines where officials there were talking about tightening up on guns because of what happened in Norway. Good luck with that one in places like northern Luzon and Mindanao. The responders in the readers’ forum didn’t respond too well to that proposal. Of course closer to home, gun control activists like the Violence Policy Center, the Brady Campaign and Bloomberg’s Mayors Against Illegal Guns are doing some fast ballroom dancing in the streets in anticipation of more gun control here after Attorney General Eric Holder’s failed and exposed Fast and Furious fiasco on the border.
You know, As a Christian and a conservative, I find it disconcerting that the news organizations and anti-gun bloggers automatically make assumptions about this individual without having any substantial information about this person, other than pure speculation. It’s remenisent of the shooting in Tuscan.
The only thing that is true is, “This seems like a madman’s work,”.
I happen to be both Christian and conservative, but what do either of those things have to do with being disconcerted over these assumptions?
Just wondering? Because one of the things I like about TTAG is that the human right of self defense cuts across all religious and political stances,
Did you feel more comfortable when it was assumed that it was the work of Muslim terrorists?
The reality of what happened will probably never be fully known or admitted to the sheep, but I am somewhat suspicious when the mainstream media is claiming one guy did this all by himself. One guy with a gun kills 98 young adults? In any case, as the state becomes more and more unpopular because of the its depredations, look for similar acts to happen here. If they do, we’ll be told we have to give up more liberty for security.
The YouTube link is already down.
It’s back.
I absolutely think one guy killed that many people.
He was dressed as a police officer. Several stories reported that he killed many people after telling them he was there to protect them after the bombing, and gathered them into groups near himself.
He had up to 90 minutes as the only armed person on a very small island full of defenseless targets. If he averaged only one murder per minute, that’s plenty of time to kill that many folks.
How many folks died because they didn’t see the first shootings, and still came to the nice police officer beckoning them over, especially after they heard shots and saw others running in panic? I mean that’s what you do in an emergency, right? Go to the guy in the police uniform?
Small island, no real cops for 90 minutes, disguised as a cop himself, hundreds of defenseless targets. I wouldn’t be surprised if what stopped him the most was running out of ammo.
Total nightmare. If you wrote it in a novel or a script, nobody would believe it.
My guns will never harm the innocent; they all have a conscience.
The guy is insane and people need to understand that, but of course some people say some sort of psychological evaluation could of stopped this, but he actually never advocated any such thing he did, he advocated the opposite of what he did.
This was in one of his comments on a website:
“Best case scenario for Europe is that we end up with a super-capitalist system such as the U.S. with large sub-class / class differences.
It does not sound very humanistic out:) But then we are certainly not goblins anymore?”
Any person that claims to support capitalism and would say such a thing, is clearly trolling or in his case insane.
Dressing as a cop is nothing new. You should have seen the picture of him wielding a rifle with tons of attachments whilst he was in scuba gear.
C’mon, “a conceal carry counselor” wouldn’t be nearly enough. What’ you’d need is about a dozen of the Armed Intelligentsia, strategically placed around the camp. Probably you’d want some type of concrete bunkers at various points as well as bullet and bomb proof sleeping quarters for the kiddies.
Now, if we could only organize all our camps and schools like that, then we’d have real freedom.
…and if anyone had suggested anything like that, you’d have a real point.
Why is everyone so focused on the tools of the deed? The real problem here is fundamentalist religions and sociopaths. Should we start banning religion, because in the wrong hands it’s a weapon of mass destruction while for others it’s a tool of compassion and peace?
+20k
While what happened in Norway is a tragedy it has absolutely no relevance one way or another to gun ownership in the United States. People who blow up government buildings with AMFO bombs will figure out a way to obtain the tools required for the job.
I live in the UK and, as such, stand less chance of being gunned down during my lifetime than almost anywhere else in the world. Why is that? Because, thankfully, the UK has amongst the tightest gun control measures in the world. It is a fallacy to believe that more guns = greater safety. The opposite is the reality.
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