Texas Jack-in-the-Box open carry demo (courtesy dailykos.com)

The NRA-ILA issued the following statement re: “smart guns” and the open carry of long guns.

“Here at NRA, we are big fans of responsible behavior … legal mandates, not so much. We think the Founders of this country were right to trust its people with the freedom to make their own choices. We also think they were wise to build checks into our constitutional system so that one view could not easily dominate the others and so that officials could be held accountable for their decisions . . .

“As gun owners, whether or not our decisions are dictated by the law, we are still accountable for them. And we owe it to each other to act as checks on bad behavior before the legal system steps in and does it for us. If we exercise poor judgment, our decisions will have consequences. These consequences could be simple and transitory, such as watching a trophy buck bound away into the woods after a missed shot from an improperly sighted rifle. They could also be lasting and consequential, such as turning an undecided voter into an antigun voter because of causing that person fear or offense. In ways small and large, we are all in this together, and we all have a role to play in preserving our cherished freedoms for ourselves and future generations.

“Let’s take just a couple of examples. In each case, just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be done. In each case, gun owners would do well to consider the effect their behavior has on others, whether fellow gun owners or not.

“One issue that has been in the news recently is so-called “smart” guns. The theory here is to create a gun that can only be fired by an authorized user, typically through the use of a transmitter/receiver system or through a biometric interface. In principle, the idea would seem to have merit, at least in some circumstances. Certainly, the NRA doesn’t oppose anything that would make firearms more appealing or accessible to a larger segment of the American public. Not everybody has guns for the same reason, and we believe people are perfectly capable of determining for themselves what best suits their needs.

“In doing so, however, they should first arm themselves with the facts. As we and others have reported previously (here, here, and here, for example) “smart” gun technology has darker implications as well.

“Moreover, the issue of “smart” guns is clouded by an ill-conceived New Jersey law passed in 2002. As stated in its legislative declaration, this law requires “that, within a specified period of time after the date on which … personalized handguns are deemed to be available for retail sales purposes, no other type of handgun shall be sold or offered for sale by any registered or licensed firearms dealer in this State.”

“The New Jersey law further directs the state attorney general to file reports with the governor and the legislature on the availability of personalized handguns for retail sales purposes and to update such reports every six months “until such time as the Attorney General shall deem that personalized handguns are available for retail sales purposes and so report to the Governor and the Legislature.” Worse, the triggering finding must be deemed to have been reached, “if at least one manufacturer has delivered at least one production model of a personalized handgun to a registered or licensed wholesale or retail dealer in New Jersey or any other state.”

“In other words, once such a handgun is being produced in multiple copies for retail sale, and once even a single such unit is delivered to a licensed distributor or retailer anywhere in the country, the clock starts ticking. Eventually, New Jersey gun dealers would be forbidden from selling any handgun (apart from a narrowly-defined class of “antiques”) that is not also a “personalized handgun.” Needless to say, this would vastly reduce the stock of handguns available to New Jersey residents. One manufacturer, in fact, could completely corner the retail market for handguns in New Jersey merely by producing one “personalized” model for sale. New Jersey residents could conceivably be limited to one model of new handgun and one model alone.

“In fact, the Brady Campaign for Gun Violence, among other plaintiffs, filed a lawsuit recently seeking to force the state attorney general to find the law has already been triggered. According to the plaintiffs, only one report (in 2003) has been filed under the law in the nearly 12 years since it passed, and they are now seeking to force the attorney general to comply with his reporting duties.

“The timing of the suit, however, is far from coincidental. An article announcing the lawsuit also notes that a German company, Armatix, is manufacturing its version of a personalized firearm and has shipped that gun to at least two dealers in the United States, one in California and one in Maryland. Both dealers, however, later decided not to sell the gun, citing pressure from persons who were angry over the ramifications such sales might have under the New Jersey law.

“The lesson with “smart” guns is that you can’t always evaluate the long-term consequences of a new “innovation” in firearm technology or regulation at a glance. Often, the issues are more complex than they first appear. That is why NRA is committed to providing timely, comprehensive, and authoritative analysis on the issues that affect your rights and your enjoyment of firearms, now and in the future. Before you embrace whatever schemes are being pushed by the self-described “gun safety advocates” who’ve never met a ban or restriction on guns or ammunition they didn’t like, acquaint yourself with the facts. Two excellent ways to do so are through the pages of our magazines and via our free, online Grassroots Alerts.

“The second example comes to us from the Lone Star State, which is second to none for its robust gun culture. We applaud Texans for that, but a small number have recently crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness.

“Now we love AR-15s and AKs as much as anybody, and we know that these sorts of semiautomatic carbines are among the most popular, fastest selling firearms in America today. Texas, independent-minded and liberty-loving place that it is, doesn’t ban the carrying of loaded long guns in public, nor does it require a permit for this activity. Yet some so-called firearm advocates seem determined to change this.

“Recently, demonstrators have been showing up in various public places, including coffee shops and fast food restaurants, openly toting a variety of tactical long guns. Unlicensed open carry of handguns is legal in about half the U.S. states, and it is relatively common and uncontroversial in some places.

“Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.

“Let’s not mince words, not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

“As a result of these hijinx, two popular fast food outlets have recently requested patrons to keep guns off the premises (more information can be found here and here). In other words, the freedom and goodwill these businesses had previously extended to gun owners has been curtailed because of the actions of an attention-hungry few who thought only of themselves and not of those who might be affected by their behavior. To state the obvious, that’s counterproductive for the gun owning community.

“More to the point, it’s just not neighborly, which is out of character for the big-hearted residents of Texas. Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners. That’s not the Texas way. And that’s certainly not the NRA way.

“In summary, NRA certainly does not support bans on personalized guns or on carrying firearms in public, including in restaurants. We think people are intelligent enough to resolve these issues in a reasonable way for themselves. But when people act without thinking, or without consideration for others – especially when it comes to firearms – they set the stage for further restrictions on our rights. Firearm owners face enough challenges these days; we don’t need to be victims of friendly fire.

[h/t KM]

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

299 COMMENTS

    • Shame on you and everyone with this attitude. You either support gun rights or you don’t, I see most here have chosen the latter which is both surprising and sad.

      • The NRA says:
        “Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.”

        So if it was not a rare sight, they would have no problem with it? How does an act become less rare by not displaying it?

        Also, I would be more concerned if there was a lone gunman rather than a large group. A large group is obviously a group of demonstrators. And if the lone gunman is simply carriyng a rifle on his back and enjoying a burrito, what in the world is threatening about that?

        More than OCT need to use common sense.

        • I’m sorry, you know damn well what is being said. If you don’t, then perhaps you aren’t smart enough to own or carry a firearm responsibly. I’m not willing for many years of patient nudging of those that may or may not like the idea of public firearms to be destroyed by some total assheads. Yeah, yeah, I know, ‘shall not be infringed’ and all that. Use some fricking common sense with it also.

        • Yes I do know what is being said. “You have the right to bear arms but stop doing it because you are scaring the moderates”.

          “I’m not willing for many years of patient nudging of those that may or may not like the idea of public firearms to be destroyed by some total assheads.”

          How many years has your plan failed again?

          And this one is the real zinger:

          “perhaps you aren’t smart enough to own or carry a firearm responsibly”

          Fascist much?

        • It really is amazing how many closet fascists are here on TTAG. Just goes to show that you can like guns and not like freedom. I’m sure plenty of Soviets loves guns almost as much as they loves using them against their neighbors.

      • I find your comment ludicrous. That’s like saying, “either you support common sense or you don’t”. It’s not that black and white and only applies when a unique individual applies their interpretation of what they are doing as “supporting gun rights”. As an avid supporter of second amendment rights, who carries and also owns several long guns, I completely agree with the post about it from the NRA.

        • Hannibal,
          Burning a flag may have been protected under A1 (I dissagree) but you have played a switcharoo there. See, OCT is not telling you to march with them. You are saying they should not. The black and white wording says you can not legaly prevent them from open carry. It does not say that you must. So to answer your irrelevent question, no…no we should not all go out and burn flags.

      • “You either support gun rights or you don’t”

        Based on your hard line, exclusionary and poorly thought out definition then, I think you’ll find yourself on the far emptier side of this debate, and that means you’ll lose. I guess to you supporting gun rights means making demands until someone takes them away.

        Forgive me if I stick to the side that’s actually fighting for gun rights.

      • Well, I know that because of these asshats it is a felony to carry a concealed weapon in Chipoltes in Illinois now.

        At what point is it right for them to defend their 2A rights at the expense of mine?

        Thanks for nothing TX OC

        • Is Chipotle posting it in Illinois? Or are they just using the same “we’d prefer you left them at home” language that they’re using elsewhere?

        • So you’re not blaming Chipotles, but rather the people who did nothing illegal.

          Back in 1776, you would’ve said, “Because of those stupid revolutionaries, the British are killing people,” right?

        • Look exercising common sense would be asking a PRIVATE business for permisson to do a demostration on their property beforehand that demostrates responiblity and consideration for the money making business that doesnt wish to get into a political debate just because you have the right to do something doesnt mean you should do it thats why it is a right because you can choose how you exercise it and respecting the business by requesting permission to hold a demonstration on their property which is private property is a step in the right direction. Im far from moderate by the way.

      • There’s a difference between supporting 2A rights & going full retard. You never go full retard.

      • Thank, Lars. They are truly enemies of the Second Amendment. Either is means “shall not be infringed”, or it doesn’t.

        The name of this blog should be changed to “The Truth About Our Guns, Not Yours” (TTAGNY).

        • There’s no amendment in the Constitution that gives people the right to act irresponsibly. One can absolutely and totally support the Second Amendment, be against all of the current and pending regulations yet still act with respect and care for other people’s opinions, even when those opinions are ignorant. Some of these people in Texas are acting like morons, and that is only going to make people ignore their message.

          • Who died and made you the arbiter of “responsibility”? You don’t like what they did. I get that you’re skittish around Americans with guns. They’re skittish around cowards.

            Nowhere does the Second Amendment say, “… but don’t carry your long guns around folks with tender sensibilities ; they’ll rat you out to the constabulary!”

        • Respect for ignorant opinions is what messed this country up so badly to begin with. An ignorant opinion turns into an ignorant vote turns into ignorant legislation turns into fascism.

        • @ Dev
          The Constitution doesn’t give anybody any rights. Those rights are inalienable. The Constitution restricts the power of the government to infringe on our rights.

          “Some of these people in Texas are acting like morons, and that is only going to make people ignore their message.”
          Seems like it has brought more attention to the issue that has been ignored for too long.

  2. Publicity is not always good publicity. Some of these incidents are cases in point. You have open carry ni your state, big T. We have open carry in our state where we have the best food in the world, and you guys know it, but we don’t make a big deal of it. Rifle and shotguns on racks in our trucks for all to see, a few with handguns on their waists in a holster. Not much more than that, except the occasional frantic request to handle a rouge alligator in a backyard pool or nearby ditch. Let’s all be civil, since we have the right, let’s not act as if we aren’t responsible.

    • It’s totally amazing how so many in the 2nd Amendment movement don’t or won’t understand and come to grips with your first sentence.

      • This is a civil rights demonstration. If the laws of every State, city and Federal Government followed the Constitution, none of this nonsense would be happening.

        • Yep! Someone needs to teach them to sing “We Shall Overcome”. I remember many segregationists saying the races weren’t meant to mix, or else God would have made us all the same color. I remember BLACK people who said that.

          Constitution be damned! The durned n*ggers are going to ruin our rights for all of us, if they don’t shut the hell up about “rights”. They’ve gone “full retard” with all their civil rights marches! The Union will be destroyed, and with it, all our precious rights!

          How ODD that so many people here cannot see these same attitudes with respect to the Right to Keep and BEAR Arms!

          You should be hanging your heads in shame. Those of your who aren’t straight-up “Midnight Riders” or plants, that is….

        • Yea because a gaggle of fat white dudes armed with rifles to go out to eat is exactly the same thing as blacks demanding the right to use the same restroom as white people.

          For Pete’s sake, people like you are why we will lose.

  3. Based on the NRA membership rate, there is only about a 5% chance these guys will even see that message.

        • Open CARRY demonstration. Not “Let’s pose with our cool new toys next to the ketchup packets!” That rifle should have never left his shoulder & it stops being an open carry demonstration the minute it does. I take my handgun out of the holster in a restaurant & it doesn’t matter if the direction I’m holding it is safe or not, I’m getting the cops called on me. Or if there’s another OCer there, a gun pointed at me. These dumbass Chipotle Ninjas (I love that term!) need to cool it with their antics before things go south fast.

        • Brandishing a concealed carry pistol is considered brandishing when your shirt is lifted. Its pointed in a safe direction. Its still brandishing by law.

    • And that thar desegregation, it went too dadburned fast, right? Damned pushy Negroes!

  5. Amen! I can’t wait to be able to choose either Open or Conceal carry some day in Texas, but this display of long guns in stores is doing more harm than good. Growing up in Texas we shot all the time, but coming home, we unloaded our rifles before we came in the house. Just good manners. All we need is one ND and it will be all over for the Lone Star State. Just get out and vote this Nov for Greg and we will slide into victory without having to make a scene.

  6. Geez, I’m getting tired of stating this over and over, but here goes yet again.
    NRA: The whole reason for the open carry of rifles in Texas is because the open carry of handguns is illegal! And yes, the stupidity of that boggles the mind, but there it is.
    That is the whole reason for all the rifle carry in the first place, to protest the fact that they would rather carry handguns, but if only rifles are allowed, then that is what they will do.
    Being the NRA, one would think that you should make a point to be aware of that…
    “Texas, independent-minded and liberty-loving place that it is, doesn’t ban the carrying of loaded long guns in public, nor does it require a permit for this activity. Yet some so-called firearm advocates seem determined to change this.”
    But they DO ban the carrying of handguns! And the NRA write this totally unaware of that. Just how unbelievably ignorant can the NRA be?

    • Both candidates for governor are already on board with open carry… Taking your AR-15 to Chipotle only energizes people, who ordinarily do not have an opinion, to come out against OC. The pen and the phone is mightier than the carbine.. It’ll pass as long as people aren’t scared. OC’ing an “assault weapon” scares people…

      • Then let the State ban the practice. That way the right will have been officially infringed, rather than just socially infringed. This will put us all on the same page – we will all know for certain that the right actually does not exist.

        • Allowing open carry of long guns is granted by our state’s constitution and being the “red” state we are, I’m sure any legislation to restrict that right would fall on deaf ears.

        • “Then let the State ban the practice. That way the right will have been officially infringed, rather than just socially infringed.”

          And this, to you, is a ‘win’ for gun rights?

        • You do realize that the Bill of Rights to the federal Constitution has no bearing on what the States can or can’t do? There is no infringement of the 2nd Amendment by Texas banning open carry of firearms. How about instead of being a petulant child and demanding people listen to your cries for attention because “it’s my right!”, you actually make a valid argument based on practicality, self defense, or just plain old not being slovenly dressed, unshaven, irresponsible, confrontational assholes!

        • @ Semper – Not at all. I was making the point that for all intents and purposes the right doesn’t exist if it can’t be practiced – in groups or otherwise. As it is, its just lip service to a right.

          Long guns may be over the top for some, but in Texas that is the only unpermitted exercise of RKBA that exists. So it is not just the most visible and controversial way to exercise RKBA, it is the only way to.

          Here is the kicker -I don’t think its that productive either, but I certainly will not admonish or try to discourage the exercise of the right. I will never be in that camp. Doing so treads too closely against what the Constitution is there to do – to protect an individual’s practice of liberty against a prevailing consensus to the contrary.

          That being said, I would love to see an organization separate from Open-Carry Texas whose stated goal is demonstrating for open-carry of pistols in Texas. And since I think empty holster marches are a bit lacking, I think a blue-gun carry would be more visible and perhaps less controversial for people. Its like sticking a yellow ribbon on your car except people will see it everywhere and may even approach you to ask, with the ick-factor being removed from the equation.

        • @ Duece – THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION

          ARTICLE 1. Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.

      • If they keep this stuff up, it’s likely the new governor will get a bill outlawing long gun OC before he/she gets one legalizing pistol OC.

        These idiots keep creating new gun free zones, all the while trying to say that they’re helping gun rights.

      • This. Anyone remember the gay kiss-ins at Chick Fil-A? Who came out ahead there? When you shove your rights down other people’s throats, expect them to be swallowed.

        Um, so to speak.

        • Gosharoonies! Civil rights are so ICKY, aren’t they? They don’t take your tender, liberal sensibilities into account!

    • Don’t worry Ken, I’m sure the NRA is well aware of our state laws in addition to the rest being they’re the biggest gun lobby in the US.

      • Funny… the NRA is not aware, or more than likely they are complicit.
        They give A ratings to the people that have prevented the OC of hand guns in this state for years.
        multiple times has OC been brought to committee and 1-2 people can stop it right there and they do on purpose. these people are given A ratings by your beloved NRA. I ma an NRA lifetime member and i have written to them explain this and to remove those rankings, they have done nothing … not even replied.

        I am not saying I agree with the OCT tactics… but in this country sadly the squeaky wheel gets greased.
        some person above made a comment that the kiss-ins at chicfila backfired … no they didnt… the purpose was not to put chicfila out of business the purpose is to raise awareness of gays and push their agenda of gay marriage/equal rights… and guess what many states are legalizing gay marriage.

        I do think that gun lovers ought to take the time to go to their liberal gun hating friends and invite them to a gun range or hunting and be a positive example of what guns are and can be, these are people that are afraid of the unknown and their liberal leaders are telling them it is one way when it is not… but because they trust those leaders and have nothing else to base their POV on that is what they go with, they trust their lib leaders would not steer them wrong.

    • I’m afraid you’re trying to teach Quantum Mechanics to ducklings, but thanks for tryin’.

    • I suggested this yesterday and got some dense responses. Because a loaded rifle openly carried > an empty holster for protesting to gain the right to openly carry a handgun… people, come on!

    • Actually, what would be way more effective is if the people in Texas carried “blue guns” (plastic training handguns with no moving parts) visibly in holsters on their hips. Are “blue guns” available in a bright color like orange?

      • Actually that is a bad idea. A cop wouldn’t know whether it’s a “blue gun” or a real gun painted blue. They would have to treat it as real when called for a “man with a gun”. Leave the holster empty and you still may deal with hassle, but hassle that probably doesn’t include you staring down a LEO gun barrel.

  8. I’ve seen enough. If Open Carry Texas isn’t a false-flag operation being funded and controlled by Bloomberg, it might as well be. Are all of the OCTers such bottom-feeders? Those guys look like they eat their young.

    • MODERATOR!!!:
      Just what is in this post that DOESN’T violate your no flames rule? Is there anything that is not insulting? ANY valid content whatever?

      • I’ve got no problem with it, and here’s why:

        I understand the feeling behind his “false flag” comment. After someone purposely shoots themselves in the foot this many times, you begin to wonder what their motivation is.

        The question is “are all OCT members bottom feeders?” implies the clause “or just the ones we’ve seen pictures of?” It’s a valid question. Is this a solid organization hijacked by a few idiots acting in its name, or is the whole organization a waste of time?

        Finally, the last statement, while a little crass, is unclear in its direction. Who is the author talking about? The guys in the photo above? In the other photos we’ve seen? The whole organization? Without a clear sense of intent, I’m not going to edit it.

        • He is referring to the guys in the photo or else he would not have said “or are all OCTers”. So does that help you in your decision to moderate the trash talk? Or would you have said the same thing so it is ok?

          • Nah, I wouldn’t have said the same thing, but I’m still kinda indifferent. This whole post is full of moderate-able stuff, and I just don’t have the patience to get all of it unless it’s blatant. So far, I’ve managed to keep my moderation to maybe one comment a week. It’s usually something that is unquestionably over the line the first time I read it. If I have to think about it to find something wrong with it, I let it slide. That’s my (admittedly very subjective) standard.

        • But you refuse to see that 911 was a false flag. Something disturbing is all over my keyboard.

      • Sorry, Ken, but Open Carry Texas has committed itself to creating public dramas as a way of communicating its political agenda. My comments referenced both the effectiveness of its avowed purpose and its choice of actors to represent its views. Shannon and the Mom’s understand this basic rule of dramaturgy quite well. OCT not so much.

      • Quit your whining Ken. Someone says something you don’t like and it’s ‘Moderator, moderator’…..

    • They are most certainly a false flag operation. Look at their record, look at how convenient they are for the national anti-gun media.

      -D

      • As much as I hate that term, I couldn’t agree more. I speculated on that in another post.

        • But 911 wasn’t a false flag. Right? Just some guys carrying ARs, demanding their rights, that curdled your blood. What a bunch of pantywaists.

  10. I don’t normally high five the NRA on anything.

    Sadly this time I must concede they have the point on this one.

  11. Quibble: “Let’s not mince words, not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself.”

    They needed to add “in this way” to the end of that sentence.

    • Grammatically, that would be redundant. The language you’re looking for is already there. If you remove “downright weird and certainly” from the sentence, you’re left with “it’s … not a practical way…” Furthermore, if you added “in this way” to the end, then the sentence would conclude with “…being prepared to defend yourself in this way,” modifying the wrong clause of the sentence.

      • Yelling racial epithets on the street corner is not the way to persuade people with respect to freedom of speech.

        LGOC generally puts people (even pro-gun people) at yellow alert even when they see cops doing it. It is associated with military drills or imminent threats. Businesses will behave in a way that maximizes revenue. When even the pro-gun people are saying don’t do it, time to change tactics.

        BP pistols and signs are the way to go here, not rifles.

  14. I think anyone silly-minded enough to carry an AR or AK into a restaurant just for the sake of doing so is not right-minded enough to be carrying a loaded firearm in public. In the pictures I’ve seen on TTAG, the carriers look like they’re doing it to amuse themselves, which to me means they’re using a firearm for a toy. I don’t want to be anywhere near that. Seeing such a display would make me nervous that the carrier posed a negligent discharge risk. Restaurants are not the place for using firearms for amusement.

    If you want to protest Texas’ ban on open-carry of handguns by carrying long guns, stage an organized carry rally with signs that explain what you’re doing. That will get the point across much better.

    • Seriously… Or point out that AZ and OK have open carry and the streets there are not running red with blood…

      These Oc’ers don’t realize that there is a difference between strategy and tactics… Oc’ing an AK to promote OC of handguns is like a man making out with his wife to protest a gay marriage ban…

    • I’m open carrying at work right now in AZ and everywhere I go. Sometimes I conceal carry. I don’t see the streets red with blood. Even more so I don’t have assholes call the cops on the sight of my gun either.

  15. I’d be a little more sympathetic to the NRA if the NRA was working for unlicensed open carry of handguns in Texas. Let’s not mince words, the NRA thinks carrying a gun is a privilege even as they call concealed carry permission slips ‘right to carry’ permits.

  19. Hmm, maybe I won’t cancel my NRA membership…they’re finally being practical.

  20. Regarding Open-Carry of longuns: If the practice is considered”…rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself.” Then how is abstaining from the practice ever going to change that? If the practice is socially unacceptable then that is a de facto ban on the practice.

    Large group open-carry demonstrations are the only SAFE way to go about normalizing, practicing, preserving, and informing about this right. That is to say, if you think a group of people with long-guns going to a Chipolte is a cause for alarm, then an single individual, doing the same for whatever reason, is that much more alarming, and EVEN MORE likely to draw negative dangerous attention.

    So then, if the attention from a large demonstration groups is discouraged and an individual demonstration is dangerous and ill-advised, then the RIGHT DOES NOT EXIST. It has been surrendered.

    • A bunch of whackjobs in Texas carrying ARs & AKs around is not going to normalize anything. Texas’s candidates for governor are on board with open carry of handguns. Atleast they are until some Mall Ninja Operator-wannabe in Open Carry Texas shoots himself in the foot… Figuratively & literaly. Whether they’re a legitimate organization or some anti-gunner shills, Open Carry Texas & groups like them are nothing but bad press & ammunition for Bloomberg & Watts. Were I a Texas resident, I would happily vote for a ban of the open carrying of long guns.

      • 1) Would it make any difference to you is a concealed carrier figuratively & literally shot themselves in the foot while at a demonstration advocating for open carry of handguns?

        2) I am certainly glad you are not a Texas resident, then. We don’t need any people who would vote away someone’s right because they don’t agree with its exercise

        • I’m glad I’m not a Texas resident either. Otherwise I’d have some high-drag, low-speed wannabe getting all operator as f*ck up in my lunch. And whether I’m carrying concealed or open, unlike OCT’s army of Chipotle Ninjas, I’m responsible enough to keep my damn hands off my weapon unless I’m either taking it off for the night or I have to actually use it. And therein lies the heart of it, not only does their dumbass bravado give all gun owners a bad name, they’re clearly not responsible enough to handle the weapons they love toting around.

        • @ Dave – Are we arguing the demonstration itself or the quality of the conduct of the demonstrators? I personally hate seeing people smiling in a self taken at Chipotle, with their hands on a tactified AR in low ready. Its cheesy and stupid, and it treads the gray area of the law regarding intent. Be that as it may, I still don’t see anything wrong with the practice of responsibly open-carrying a long gun itself.

          I think it would have been more constructive if the NRA had offered some guidelines for conduct during an open-carry demonstration, rather than outright dividing the constituency by choosing a side and admonishing the other.

        • BDub, I’d be all for the responsible open carrying of long guns, it can certainly have its purposes. Say I had been hunting on the edge of town & was walking back to my place, seems reasonable enough to be able to walk home with your rifle on your shoulder. Not necessarily the best example since we were always taught to unload our rifles after hunting, but best I could think of off the top of my head.

          Unfortunately, when it comes to the open carrying of long guns (Not something I believe we can do in my home state of PA), all we ever hear of is Open Carry Texas. OCT is, at their best, grossly irresponsible and at their worst, a bunch of dangerous thugs. Were some other well-instructed, responsible group of individuals to do their own rallies carrying long guns, I could support that. Open Carry Texas does immensely more harm than any small good they might ever try to do & they’re not going away any time soon. As it stands, I cannot support such irresponsible behavior, especially when their actions can negatively affect the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans everywhere.

          • They speak very kindly of you! What have they ever done to you? All they’ve done is speak up for their civil rights; and you denigrate them for it.

            If you’re good with the back of the bus, by all means sit back there. But don’t expect others to settle for second-class citizenship.

        • Way to contribute to the conversation Burke. Quiet now, the adults are having a discussion.
          By the way, the cool kids sit in the back of the bus.

          • I only sat there because the cute girl with the great personalities and a penchant for tight sweaters sat across from me, and it was a bumpy road. Ah, those were the days.

      • You are right. And if they continue muddying the water as they are, they’ll succeed in turning public opinion against open carry. When that happens open carry in Texas is dead.

    • We have stricter rules at my gun range than these nut-jobs exercise in Texas. Seriously, why do we teach hunters to carefully unload their weapons before getting into vehicles or going into houses, and why do we require firearms at ranges be kept cased until up on the firing line, if not for safety? A handgun in a holster is effectively “case” until drawn. A long gun in the open is not. And some people here are okay with such irresponsible and juvenile behavior?

    • You’re right, BDub. But this blog has been taken over by people who are uncomfortable with people exercising their civil rights. No sitting at the front of the bus for us. It’s uppity.

      Personally, I think TTAG is now a lost cause. It’s been overrun by those who think gun owners and open-carriers should relegate themselves to the back of the bus.

      Miserable collaborators!

  21. I have seen a couple of the protests and the majority of the public interaction was positive with lots of honking and thumbs up waves when they were walking the public sidewalks with banners and signs, but as soon as they were stepping into the stores and fast food places it went down hill from there. And for God’s sake dress nicer. The “Camo” Commander style is not helping the cause. Some of the ones I saw, I would do the Mark Cuban and cross the street even if they didn’t have a long gun shouldered.

    • Yep, I saw the same thing at SXSW this past year. Lot’s of people approached them and talked to them about what they were doing and took pictures with them. I didn’t see a single hater or hear not one murmur in the crowd about how scary they all looked and acted.

  22. This is why I quit the NRA and why I continue to refuse to associate with those quislings. If the NRA had its way, there would be no Heller decision.

    • Maybe you need to wake up and study legal history enough to know what went into giving us the Heller decisions. I’m a lawyer who’s followed gun rights since the days before “modern military rifles” even hit the radar. For most of the 1900s, but especially the 1950s onward, federal courts gradually dismantled what was left of the 2nd Amendment, claiming it was a “collective” right to be used on behalf of the people by the police and military. And most judges supported that unhistorical view. It took putting Reagan and Bush II in office, them appointing strict constructionists to the Supreme Court, legal scholars willing to put their careers on the line and agree with the NRA (I was nearly laughed out of law school when I wrote on 2nd Amendment history), and low court judges having the gonads to follow history and original meaning over “modern academic consensus”, for Heller ever to get to a court that would affirm the truth. Truth isn’t common in law. There’s a saying, “It’s not truth that wins cases, but perception.” And if people perceive that allowing gun rights means people will be wandering around with firearms in places where no one would expect to see a firearm, then perception is going in the wrong direction and the right will soon disappear. Most of us are taught gun responsibility — time for the rest of you to learn it and practice it too. Because if you show up at my mall toting an AR, you’re going to the police station under charges of brandishing and terroristic threats. Good luck getting your gun back.

      • The NRA is over a hundred years old. Never once did they bring the issue of the second amendment interpretation to court. And when Alan Gura did, they tried to derail it.

        The NRA lives for maintaining legislative lobbying pull, not for overturning the NFA and the GCA.

      • “And if people perceive that allowing gun rights means people will be wandering around with firearms in places where no one would expect to see a firearm, then perception is going in the wrong direction and the right will soon disappear.”

        That’s some circular logic right there.

        Imagine if you had said: And if people perceive that allowing free speech meant people will be wandering around saying things no one would expect to hear, then perception is going in the wrong direction and the right will soon disappear.

  24. I think that if the people that are so bent on pressing their rights, they might be able to do so by having one or two people show up kith an open carry, not a small army. I have been a gunsmith for over 25 years, and I might feel a bit off guard walking into a coffee shop with 20 AR 10’s and AR 15’s, but less so than other people because I carry concealed. Just think about it, and make a statement next time, don’t SCREAM it.
    Robert Seddon
    Mineral, Va

  25. Hey Skyler,
    When the next anti gun law passes, thank yourself and others like you for it. A UNITED front is most effective, and the NRA is that and more. Cutting off your nose to spite your face pal.
    Robert Seddon
    Mineral, Va

    • The NRA hasn’t done anything except be defensive. THey have not gone on the attack to push laws back to sanity. They’re perfectly fine with controls on short shotguns and rifles, suppressors, and machine guns.

      I don’t know how a militia is expected to be able to function without belt fed machine guns, but the NRA is fine with you not being allowed one.

      Don’t tell me the NRA is saving the day. The day is being saved because of gun owners voting. If the NRA pushed harder to restore our rights they would win a lot, but they’re content to be able to kiss up to congressmen.

  27. I’m glad to see that most people on this forum agree with the NRA on this issue. These guys are probably doing more damage to gun rights than the Brady Campaign.

    The question for wiser gun-rights advocates: how do we respond?

    I’m going to become a Texan next month. If I bump into these guys, I plan to walk over and tell them what I think about their antics (politely, but clearly).

    Incidentally, it’s kind of cool that the media are publishing the NRA response rather than just portraying these OCT guys as typical gun owners.

    • Shane, they probably already know how you feel about them, judging by the content of these comments.

      Welcome to Texas, by the way.

  28. I agree Robert. It’s high time the NRA and also Gottlieb of SAF get on board and start supporting the second amendment rather than just try to maximize their pull over legislators.

    • You cannot get laws passed as a marginalized minority with no influence over legislators.

      It’s easy to say “we won” with Heller, but it was a closely decided case. SCT has repeatedly denied cert to carry cases. I’d like to believe they are just waiting on the right case, and the re-lists in Drake suggest as much, but I’d rather have them deny cert than have a case that establishes that infringement is acceptable. Heller was a high-risk case.

      If you cannot influence legislators or the ballot box, then the antis get to appoint SCT justices.

      It’s always better to fight two fronts (courts/congress) than one, but if the NRA cannot influence legislators, over the long term there are zero fronts. In the legislative arena, its better to take the more pro-2A position that can win the day, rather than the “correct,” or most pro-2A position overall.

  29. As a Harley rider, this reminds me of the idiots that go around the rallies racking the hell out of their pipes and then wonder why cities come out and try and squash motorcycle rallies. Sure, you can do it, you can also eat your own feces. Doesn’t make it right, correct, normal or desirable.

  30. Well reasoned comments from NRA.
    If smart-gun technology will ever have a place in the market I anticipate it will be here: Parents of young children have to weigh-off the risk of being unprepared for a home invasion vs. Jr. toddling into the master bedroom at night while his parent’s gun is on the nightstand. I for one do not wish to choose for parents facing this balancing of risks. The NJ legislature has decided that IT will choose on behalf of all its subjects (not citizens). And, according to the law of unintended consequences, is delaying innovation that MIGHT have been chosen by some parents of young children. If some child dies whose parents would have purchased a smart gun I will be relieve that any such child’s blood is not on my hands. NJ legislators can live with their consciences.

    As to open-carry demonstrations, my policy is to consider that there must always be a smarter way of doing anything than the way I’m thinking of doing it. Scaring voters doesn’t seem to be a net positive way to win friends and influence people. Carrying black-powder replicas seems to be a smarter alternative; admittedly, an expensive one. Carrying replica (toy, wooden, mock) guns a still smarter and inexpensive alternative. The campus-carry empty-holster approach seems also to be effective. Choosing venues very carefully (where welcomed, in the town-square, court house steps, with plenty of visible police) seems prudent. As counter-intuitive as it might seem, the goal of an open-carry demonstration should be that the demonstration is BORING! That the public response is: Well, there they go again. Achieve that response and the finish line has been crossed. What would be left is only for the legislature to officially award the prize.

    • “As counter-intuitive as it might seem, the goal of an open-carry demonstration should be that the demonstration is BORING!”

      Yeah, just like civil & gay rights movements! NOT!!!!

  31. I’m all for law abiding citizens carrying or having immediate access to any legal firearm for self defense, but the trade off for open carry is not worth what is lost in tactical advantage, common sense, and public support.

    The anti gun crowd faces an uphill battle in Texas, but they gain support every time an open carry idiot totes a black rifle down at the local mall, grocery store or home improvement center.

    • “I’m all for law abiding citizens of color riding in the back of the bus, but the trade off for riding in the front of the bus is not worth what is lost in tactical advantage, common sense, and public support.”

      I fixed it up for ya. See, I’ve heard all this shit before.

      • William Burke, that kind of logic rises to a whole new level of idiocy, you’ve outdone yourself.

        • Well if such an insignificant portion of the population can ride on the coat tails of the civil rights movement (gays), why can’t a huge portion of the population whose rights are being infringed on do it too?

  32. I have never seen anything so un-American and so detrimental to the concept of freedom on TTAG as I have now. I’m honestly appalled that so many feel the way they do on this subject.

    • You guys spend too much time listening to Alex Jones and preparing to fight the “new world order.” Return to the real world and engage with reality, please. 99% of the nation doesn’t want a civil war any more than we want a Marxist revolution.

      • You should spend your time worrying about yourself, and not who we are, or what we do.

        Did I get through?

      • Congratulations! You have just unlocked the “Think Like An Anti” achievement, by negatively characterizing and entire group based on little to no actual acquaintance with any members of that group.

    • These are the same people that support gay rights as long as they don’t ever have to see two men kissing in public.

      • Well, for the record, if I see two guys making out in public (in a restaurant, say, or on a bench in the mall), I don’t think “Those two fags need to take that somewhere else.” I think, “Those two need to get a room,” same as I would if it was a guy and a girl, or two girls. Well, maybe not that last one.

        • My wife and I have been married over 25 years. We hold hands everywhere we walk together. We sit on the same side of the booth in a restaurant. We always kiss before we start dinner. We constantly show open displays of affection. It is a beautiful thing. It is natural.

  33. Lets face it-this open carry has caused more harm than good. You are FORCING businesses to make a choice. Thats not good for ANYONE. On top of that, you are, literally, feeding the enemy. I’m a huge pro 2A proponent, having been actively fighting the liberal mind in MA most of my life. Here, we have less rights than criminals. We can, theoretically, open carry-there is no law against it. BUT, we dont-because it turns people AWAY. Please, for the love of god, stop. A single incident happens, and there will be an outcry nationally to ban ALL open carry. Then, we’re back to fighting that battle again. You have, literally, NOTHING to gain from this. And a LOT to lose. For the other 49 states who have to deal with the pressure youre causing, please, stop. You’re driving people to their side. And alienating fellow gun owners.

    • Businesses are forced to make choices every single day. And unless it’s your business, I don’t see how they would appreciate all your “help”.

  34. Anyone who supports smart gun tech supports gun control, anyone who doesn’t support open carry supports gun control. It’s pretty simple.

    • Wake up, Lars. Whatever you’re smoking, time to quit. You keep rights only so long as you don’t turn the bulk of people against you. The Second Amendment was essentially erased by federal courts from the 1950s to the 1990s, and it took conservative legal scholars, a couple of Republican presidents, and some courageous judges to give it back to us. But idiots will reverse the process.

      Here’s the intelligent approach: If you’re somewhere where you wouldn’t expect to see a gun, then don’t take a gun that people can see. If you’re somewhere people would expect to see guns — woods, fields, camping, etc., then go for it. But if you show up at my local mall, I’m reporting your for brandishing and terroristic threats and letting the prosecutor sort you out. And, I’m a licensed gun instructor and NRA Lifer.

      I take ALL threats to my rights seriously. Especially the ones from within our own ranks.

      • “But if you show up at my local mall, I’m reporting your for brandishing and terroristic threats and letting the prosecutor sort you out. And, I’m a licensed gun instructor and NRA Lifer.”

        So you are willing to lie to make a point. Terroristic threats and OC are totally different beasts, and you making this statement proves to me you are no liberty loving american.

        “I take ALL threats to my rights seriously. Especially the ones from within our own ranks.”

        Then you are not a NRA lifer by your claim. The NRA was instrumental in the passing of the GCA, Hughes amendment, and the requirement for background checks. Your NRA is just as bad as the race baiting NAACP. They would be out of business if they actually attained their goal. They are best served by keeping the balance of infringement while claiming to fight it. The NRA is no more than a fear/money machine spawned from a once great civil liberties group.

        • Not hard to peel the onion and see these Liberal gun folks for what they are. Part of being responsible when carrying is being able to recognize a threat. We just witnessed a failure on his part.

    • I don’t support smart gun tech at all. I think it should fail on its own merits. I also think the NJ law is illegal.

      • “Smart gun tech” always has a back door aspect. As in, “someone” can remotely render your handgun inoperative. Now who would want to do such a pea-pickin’ thang?

  35. Some of these OC demonstrators are clearly damaging to the cause. It is simply unnecessary and unwise to go about your daily activities in close quarters with an AR slung behind your back. Slinging it in front aids in retention, but is just to damn “operator” for the Chipotle ninjas (thanks Paul T.). The photos of the finger along the trigger guard are just slightly better than finger on the trigger. Your getting a burrito, dude, not making a stop on a stolen car. And I can say that as someone who has in fact been on a multitude of felony stops.

    Seriously, I’m thinking about making a video to show how fast a serrated Benchmade or Cold Steel knife can slice through a sling. Heck, a good scissors might even do the trick.

  36. About time. These idiots are doing far more damage to us than even Bloomberg and his multi-millions. Worse yet, they open us up to staged events and provocateuring by anti-gun stooges, who show up with guns, scare people, film it, and disappear into the ether. Meanwhile it goes all over the evening news. Nope, these people are (1) idiots or (2) anti-gun provocateurs. Or, often as not, a mixture of both. I say it’s time we in the gun community start taking action against them ourselves before the courts and legislatures step in. Revoke their gun-club memberships and gun-range access, for starters. They’ll shape up fast. And for the rest, film them, identify them (which will help with the stooges), warn them, and if they do it again, make sure the police show up at their door. After all, “brandishing” is one of those all-purpose “crimes” (like terroristic threats) that’s easy to charge and easy to drop if they learn the lesson.

    We can’t afford for our own people to be setting stage for anti-gun provocateured “events.” They’ve already begun, claiming open-carry advocates spat on a woman and made crude comments. Chances are 99%, if the event wasn’t made up, they staged it themselves. It’s a Saul Alinsky tactic, and if you don’t know who he was, better look him the hell up. He wrote the political playbook followed by Obama and Hillary. And he’s who you really have to contend with.

    • For real! We ought to be fighting these uppity civil rights ordinances! Did you hear? Negroes can actually sit in the front of the bus now!!!

  37. We ought to be fighting the “smart gun only” laws, not fighting the technology itself, even if it is niche. If we do a good job checking and balancing the government we don’t have to be afraid of the technology existing.

    Personalized guns could be a way to address reasonable concerns about weapons retention with teachers carrying guns and prison guards carrying guns. I’m sure plenty of teachers would rather have a personalized gun than no gun, same with prison guards.

    -D

    • Exactly. There’s many a beat cop who might be alive today if his weapon ceased to be shootable when the perp took it away. The problem isn’t the technology, it’s dumb laws.

    • I’ll only accept smart gun tech if the military and law enforcement are using it, but they’re not and yet they’re the groups that could benefit from it the most. If the tech is not good enough for military/police, why should I trust my life to it?

      • How about the city dweller with young kids and an gun-fearful wife who wants to make sure no one in the house gets hurt? There’s a thing called “freedom” and another called “choice.” Let them develop the tech if they want and let people who see a need for it purchase it.

        I’ll take an old fashioned 1911, myself, but I won’t force it on you. Even though NOTHING has been build since 1911 that’s worthy of the name “self-defense handgun” . . . .

        • I’m not saying I’m necessarily against them, it’s just they’re unproven. Very few weapon concepts start with the consumer world. Personally, if it was something more like the Lawgiver Mk II, I’d buy it in an instant even if it didn’t have the voice-activated ammunition type selection. Although having the gun electrocute someone other than myself wouldn’t be desired should my wife pick it up. 🙂

  38. If only they would listen (but they probably won’t). The open rifle carry silliness really is probably doing more harm than good.

    • The solution is both simple and (for them) painful. First, politely challenge them, then if that fails, call 911 and report them for brandishing and making “terroristic threats.” Yes, you can carry long guns in many areas without need to have them cased, but these idiots are intentionally scaring people (which suggests to me that there may well be some Saul Alinsky anti-gun provocateuring going on as well). Because they’re more dangerous to us than Bloomberg and Soros, they need to be dealt with swiftly and “memorably.” If that requires having them arrested and them having to fight city hall to get their AR and AK “toys” back — to teach them that guns aren’t toys — then I’m fine with that.

        • Nothing false about it. If you’re openly carrying a long gun in a place where firearms are neither expected nor generally accepted and you’re alarming people (and I’m a person), then you’re brandishing. If I or someone else confronts you and asks you to please remove the rifle and you say “make me!” then the presence of the rifle indicates a terroristic threat, arguably one that could kill or injure a lot of people. And you’d have to be a damned fool to think a jury would give you an ounce of credibility if you were so stupid as to try to sue me for making “false charges.” But you’d never get that far.

          Fact is, you can argue the point if you want, but speaking as a former prosecutor, by the time you get to make that argument, you’ll have civilly forfeited your expensive black-rifle, mags, etc., and you’ll have paid ten times as much for a lawyer to get you off a potential felony charge. So, if you really want that experience, then continue behaving like an inconsiderate jack-wagon with no manners and no sense.

        • @John You are in fact filing a false report by picking a fight. You are exactly what is wrong with the world. You would rather falsely criminalize someone to make them do what you want instead of leave it alone and let things progress naturally. You are an instigator. You are the failure of western civilization to live and let live.That is no better than the government’s stripping of our rights. That action is the personification of statists. “I know what is better, so obey my will or else…”. People like you are a cancer on the liberties of everyone due to the fact you will trample someone else’s rights to make a point.

        • Show up looking like a shooter-wannabe at the local mall or restaurant or anywhere there’s a crowd and guns wouldn’t be expected, and you’re a threat to me and my family and everyone else there. First, we don’t know you or what your intentions are. Whether you’re just some yahoo with OC or a fruitcake using OC as a cover to get into a crowd and let go. Normalize OC with long guns in unexpected places and you provide cover for any nutcase who wants to settle a score. Second, even if you intentions aren’t threatening, how do I know you have the sense to keep a safe weapon? That you’re following the safety rules? I don’t. Gun ranges have strict carry rules (usually cased-gun requirements when not on the firing line). Hunters are taught strict carry rules. And yet you want to wag your toys around any time and any place? Nope. The decision to take a deadly weapon into a place where an OC long-gun isn’t expected shows bad judgement. It can only get worse. So, the police report will be true. You’ll be arrested. Your guns will be confiscated. And by the time it’s sorted out, you’ll be $10,000 minimum in debt. And since we have anonymous reporting, and you’re in a crowd, you’ll never know who I am. Better yet, even if you did, you’d wouldn’t make it past “go” in a lawsuit for false reporting. It’s up to you. But if it were me, I’d take that $10,000 and buy some nice new toys and enjoy them — at the range, in my house, and in the hunting fields.

        • Rambeast and Burke, given how you’ve twisted comments on this board around illogically, I’d say you’re both trolls having a good time stirring the pot. Cool by me. Gets people thinking.

        • “Show up looking like a shooter-wannabe at the local mall or restaurant or anywhere there’s a crowd and guns wouldn’t be expected, and you’re a threat to me and my family and everyone else there. First, we don’t know you or what your intentions are. Whether you’re just some yahoo with OC or a fruitcake using OC as a cover to get into a crowd and let go. Normalize OC with long guns in unexpected places and you provide cover for any nutcase who wants to settle a score. Second, even if you intentions aren’t threatening, how do I know you have the sense to keep a safe weapon? That you’re following the safety rules? I don’t.”

          Your fear and ignorance of the situation isn’t a qualifying factor for the impediment of my rights. If you live in fear of others’ unstated intentions, might I suggest professional help? The nutcase wouldn’t let go in this situation, due to the response the first shot would get him. Use your brain, you know, that lump 3ft above your ass.

          “Gun ranges have strict carry rules (usually cased-gun requirements when not on the firing line). Hunters are taught strict carry rules. And yet you want to wag your toys around any time and any place? Nope. The decision to take a deadly weapon into a place where an OC long-gun isn’t expected shows bad judgement.”

          The only range I frequent is a public range with no RSO. It is on national forest property, and the last incident that occurred was a suicide. I have yet to hear of any accidental shootings or NDs. Apparently where you’re from, the people aren’t raised to be respect the rights those around them as they would like to be in return.

          “It can only get worse. So, the police report will be true. You’ll be arrested. Your guns will be confiscated. And by the time it’s sorted out, you’ll be $10,000 minimum in debt. And since we have anonymous reporting, and you’re in a crowd, you’ll never know who I am. Better yet, even if you did, you’d wouldn’t make it past “go” in a lawsuit for false reporting.”

          The police would do well to ask “Is the person pointing it at anyone?” if not, they should educate the caller of the law in that area. They would rather send out a unit to collect revenue in the off chance some other arbitrary offense is being committed. There will be no “$10,000” or confiscation in this case since there is no law being broken. Quoting the recent SCOTUS decision about anonymous tips holds no weight with me. If you think the SCOTUS is always right, I have 2 words for you, Dred Scott.On the subject of anonymous reporting, How do you get to face your accuser? That’s what I thought.

          “It’s up to you. But if it were me, I’d take that $10,000 and buy some nice new toys and enjoy them — at the range, in my house, and in the hunting fields.”

          …and in your comfortable cage that grows less and less comfortable every passing year. Wake up or your children and grandchildren will be living in the USSA.

  39. It very much sucks that it had to be spelled out this way, but it is what it is, I guess.
    There’s got to be another, more effective, if subtle way of making this point than stinging your AR at taco bell. In some ways, this demonstrates on of the worst perceptions the antis have of us: when all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail.
    We’re better than that. And smarter, frankly.

  40. Years ago, a Chicago Marxist radical named Saul Alinsky became the lead advisor and strategist to fellow travellors like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. One time a group of students asked him how they should protest a Bush (I) for President rally. “Protest?!” he asked. “Why protest? Show up as supporters!” So, at his urging, they donned KKK outfits, racist signs, and show up to cheer Bush to “victory.” The point? You do more damage by subverting a cause from within than attacking from the outside.

    Do you think the anti-gun crowd hasn’t gotten that memo? Open carriers just invite provocateuring. Time to police our own ranks so we can identify the enemy when they show up in their own version of “KKK outfits.” Because they will.

  41. You want to normalize guns and push for OC? Buy a frickin’ blue training pistol and matching rifle and walk around with those, you will not intimidate anyone and will likely have people ask what you’re doing. That’s the opportunity to present facts against gun control.

    Carrying around real rifles/carbines will do nothing more than scare the average individual which is the exact people we are looking to win over. I saw a post from the small guy in the Chipotle picture, he is craving the attention he’s getting, based on the interaction he had on Facebook, he doesn’t seem to care about the damage he’s doing to the cause. Seems like a sad little man,

  42. Hey paul, in order to be a “freedom lover”, do I have to support common sense gun control like you?

  43. At least pull the dang mags. If a bunch of morons walked into mcdonalds with what appeared to be loaded and ready to fire rifles I would be uncomfortable and pissed. I dont know their safety standards or if they are smart enough to know where to point it. Slung across your back with no mag, no problem. Posing like a douche, is for——well, douches.

    • At least that is a more reasonable response. Its a shame you don’t work for the NRA.

  44. Those guys are absolute trash. Theres no need to be holding an ar in the low ready at chipotle. This isnt hurricane katrina. This isnt a war zone. This isnt the gun rack in a mans own vehicle. This isnt the means streets of chicago. This is a suburban chipotle…home of cheap burritos for college kids. Im a strong second amendment supporter, a member of a gun trust, and as big of a die hard a gun nut as you can find…and this is just disrespectful. If you want to walk around with a rifle…which im all for…it should be done in a respectful manner to those around you. Try an eberlestock backpack or a bag. You can stay tactiool and be less threatening. Im curious how many times these clowns violated the 4 rules posing for theyre instagram pics here.

  45. So the NRA comes out in favor “common sense gun laws”, eh? Where have I heard that ad captandum vulgus before?

    • Exactly how is the NRA in favor of gunsense? It must have been in a different memo and not this one. If so, could you post a link to such a statement by them?

  46. And it is specifically because of messages like this that I am not a member of the NRA. The only “friendly fire” to be seen is coming almost exclusively from them to begin with.

    • Welcome to the growing fold of those seeing through the hypocrisy of this once great civil rights organization turned fear profiting corporation.

    • See, the issue is, this is causing 100% damage to our rights. What is gained from doing this? I’ll ask those who are bashing the NRA-how many, exactly, are now “desensitized”? None. Yet, ALL gun owners are now dealing with negative press over the ENTIRE COUNTRY, because of, literally, a handful of people from TX. You sit here & bash the NRA, and anyone who agrees with their point of asking you to stop, because your rights shall not be infringed? Meanwhile, others of us, in other states, are dealing with the fallout, because YOU are giving the antis GALLONS OF GAS for their fires. OC is poor PR. Period. Particularly how its being done. Want to hold rallies? Fantastic. Don’t do it at places where they can force businesses to make decisions. Because, so far, they are winning. Because of YOU.

  48. A lot of people like to equate free speech to open carry. I would feel 100% more comfortable at Chipotle with a room full of AR carrying “bottom feeders” than one soap box sermon from a lunatic screaming Bible verses at everyone coming and going. But that’s just me.

      • The best way to get you point across is to live as you see fit and don’t give a rat’s ass what others think about you. The NRA has done more to compromise the Second Amendment away than they have to protect it.

  49. I’ve read all the comments. Let’s state it simply.
    If you believe in our rights, our Second Amendment, our right to self defense and freedom, this demonstration isn’t going to change your mind

    If you don’t believe in the above, this demonstrations isn’t going to change your mind

    If you’re not sure what you believe, you’re probably ignorant when it comes to firearms themselves. I’m willing to bet this type of demonstration sways many more people away from us than it does toward us.

    Bottom line is that when it comes down to it, all of our rights hinge on politicians. Politicians hinge on votes they think they’ll receive or lose. This sort of demonstration helps to LOSE MORE VOTES..plain and simple.

    Like it or not..NRA is right on this one. They play chess when everyone else seems to be playing checkers.

      • Then chess is beyond your comprehension. Go back to your easy chair and let those that are willing to fight for what’s left of this nation’s rights make some headway.

        • By open carrying? Hows that working out so far? Nothing but negative press is defending our rights? Doubtful. Stop dragging the rest of us down with your ill conceived ideas.

        • @Bill R The same can be said for the Civil Rights movement of the last century. Dogs, hoses, lynchings, etc. The same “Hows that working out so far?” coming from the passive majority of society.

          No one is dragging anything/anyone down. This fight is happening on all fronts. Once there is a ND or murder/assault by a protester, call me. Until then, the fight continues on the streets, in the courtrooms, and at the ballot box. The hearts and minds will not be won from the majority until the day they need a gun and realized they refused to exercise their right to self defense with the best tool/force equalizer available.

        • Anyone who compares Open Carry with the Civil Rights movement has a diagnosis. No one in the history of this nation — even to the founding — supported a “right” to wag firearms anywhere and everywhere. The same founders who protected our right to keep and bear arms also wrote against “going about armed” (meaning carrying firearms gratuitiously where they wouldn’t normally be expected). Anyone who’s had a firearm safety course knows that firearms are dangerous when not properly handled. How do we know which of these yahoos wagging around an AR understands the rules of firearm safety? You can’t do this kind of crap at my target range — or any I’ve ever been to. And you’re going to do it at a Chipotle’s?!?

  50. Note to the NRA and everyone against “people on our side acting foolishly”. What if they don’t want to be on your side. What if they want to be free? Free from your constraints as well as those from the gun grabbers. Fascism isn’t an ideology. It is a condition.

    • If you want to be “free,” go someplace where you won’t alarm people and be as free as you want. But in urban areas and places where people aren’t likely to be armed to the teeth and would be alarmed by it, your “freedom” gives way to the rights of others. It’s used to be called good manners and consideration. And, for the record, “going about armed” was something our Constitution’s writers frowned on. Not being armed. Not owning guns. Not even carrying guns when appropriate. But gratuitously wagging weapons where they don’t belong.

      • Who made you the one to decide where guns belong? You are not representative of me, these demonstrators, nor anyone else fighting for the return of our liberties. You are speaking like the Fudds that got us in this predicament in the first place.

        • Agreed. It was this capitulation to people sensibilities that led to the wide spread instant panty-bunching at the sight of a firearm that now suffuses society and erodes personal liberty.

      • “If you want to be “free,” go someplace where you won’t alarm people and be as free as you want.”

        In other words, “if you want to be ‘free’, please leave us alone and find a new country; we’ve decided to be slaves.”

        NO. YOU go someplace else! May I suggest North Korea?

        • Okay, Burke, which anti-gun group are you posing for? Because it takes more effort than you’re likely capable of to be this stupid. But if you’re for real, I have some suggestions for you: Have sex on the street corner of a busy intersection. Got to the mall buck-naked. Play with your 500 lumen SureFire in a crowded theater — during the movie. Use the trees in the public park to pee on. Take a crap in a public swimming pool. Show up to your job with a t-shirt that says “F— You, Boss.” Because basically that’s what your demanding the “right” to do.

          We all know what the results would be. So, I have to conclude that you’re a fraud who wants guns banned posing as one of us, or you’re the kind of dumb-ass that needs a barred cell to learn manners. As I’ve said before, anyone carrying long guns who shows up while my family is eating out (other than in hunting territory where it’s expected) or at the local mall, will be spending the next few years trying to clear their name and recover their civilly-forfeited firearms. Between the lawyers and the courts, you’d do better to go out and buy that custom AR you’ve always dreamed about and self-restrict it to the safe, the range, and the hunting fields. I’m and NRA Lifer, certified firearms instructor, and former prosecutor. And while I respect your rights, you’ll pay a price for violating mine by ill-mannered and dangerous provocateuring.

          • If your solution to someone peacefully carrying a gun making you slightly more on your guard is to call the cops and try to ruin them financially, you’re no better than the ignorant screaming ninnies of MDA. Make no mistake, I am loudly and firmly against people carrying irresponsibly (e.g. carrying at low ready), but simply having a rifle slung over your shoulder where it’s otherwise legal is in no way irresponsible.

            Elsewhere in this post you said that normalizing the open carry of long guns would provide cover for crazies with a score to settle. Two words: baseball bats. Someone walking with a bat doesn’t get a second look, as long as their demeanor doesn’t indicate ill will. Why should a slung long gun be any different?

        • Time. Place. Manner. And if you don’t know what those mean or where they come from, you don’t understand free speech or the laws protecting it.

    • I’m all for people exercising their rights until they start abusing them and affecting others. Their mission may be for the right but their message is getting lost in translation. When people see a group of individuals with long guns, images of militants in Latin America, Eastern Europe, Africa and other less-than-ideal travel spots come to mind; not peace-loving folks out for a burrito. I’m sorry but the Walmart Militia does not speak for me.

      • You are mostly right. But don’t you see that if the only image of a group of people with long guns that people ever see are 3rd world “militants”, you can’t ever expect anyone to think a group could be otherwise. You have limited their frame of reference from which they draw their conclusions.

  51. My stance hasn’t changed..

    Carrying an AR to go pick up a burrito will never be normal.
    A group of people showing up in ‘murricah! shirts, cargo shorts and plate carriers is not going to change that.

    When you show up to a peaceful protest, armed with the very gun the antis hate, you’re not going to change their minds.

    I keep seeing gay pride being brought up… But here’s the thing.. they dress up, some just dressing well, some in fabulous costume, they march, they chant, they make their statement.. but not ONCE do you see hardcore manlove going on during that parade. Think about that, and the lesson that could be learned.

    • You obviously have not been to many gay-pride parades. In fact there have been many attempts to curtail public expressions of Gay Pride for exactly that reason. In spite of all of it normalization is still happening.

  53. I can’t reply directly to messages on my phone but all chaps are ass-less. If they had asses, they would be called pants.

  54. Believe it or not, up until 2012 it was legal to OC handguns and long guns in CA. Yes, in CA. Although the weapon had to be unloaded, which would make one wonder what the point was. Still, you could do it if you wanted to.

    Then came the OC protestors with handguns at various Starbucks. Guess what happened? We lost handgun OC because it scared the crap out of ppl and they let the politicians know it.

    Then after that, the OC geniuses organized long gun protests and in 2013 that was banned too.

    Some of you are way too myopic in your insistence of winning every battle or skirmish that we’ll lose the war in the long run.

    • Comparing Commiefornia and Texas in this subject is like trying to equate the US to Saudi Arabia on religious freedom.

    • I’m not so sure. Parts of TX are very blue state, and more turning that way, based on the early support for Wendy Davis, who was looking strong until she blew it. Remember- its about the money for most pols, and there is a LOT of quiet money behind the gun-grabbers.

      Going full retard in OC carry long gun, could end up costing not just that right, as it did in CA, but also doing a LOT more damage to the reputation of gun owners at large, by making everyone seem gameboy OCD fanatical on tactics rather than sly old dog wise on long term strategy. I’d listen carefully to the NRA here- they have a LOT of swing, and connections, and there might be a better way to make this happen, with sympathetic group events, rather than what comes across as small guerrilla bands of youtube hotheads,
      who just reinforce the stereotype of “gun-nut” the gun-grabbers are looking for, to feed to their media enablers.

    • I’m sorry but that “Flakoo Delcampo” guy is precisely the reason why these long gun OC’ers need to quit. That guy is a tool and the anti’s are having a good ol’ time parading him around. This guy is representing us for 2A rights? Crap we’re screwed.

      Side note: The person that says that they’re saving $600/yr on burritos because of their [Chipotle] stance on guns needs to put take out a life insurance policy and place me as the beneficiary because eating that many burritos can’t be good for one’s longevity.

    • That “Flakoo Delcampo” guy is not helping matters either.

      “Currently, Texas requires no background check, no license, no training, and has no age restrictions for some of the more dangerous legal guns on the market.”

      Really? Weird because whenever I bought a gun in Texas, they did a background check as mandated by Federal law. I have a CHL now (that also requires a background check and training) which allows me to skip NICS checks though.

    • How charming. An Antiteapartyfakerepublicandemocrat! Appreciate the invasion! Break a leg.

  56. I CC in restaurants quite often, only open carry on my property. If I was sitting in Chipotle and these bozo’s walked in fingering they rifles I would get up and leave.

      • Explain to us, exactly, how this is liberty? What liberty did you gain? You’ve been banned by several restaurant chains. Not that that has stopped me, or I’m willing to bet, anyone, from CCing in these places. You keep up this façade as YOUR way being the ONLY way-yet, this is damaging the entire RKBA issue. What, exactly, has this accomplished to date? Other than negative press? And, it doesn’t matter that none of you are NRA members, or support the NRA, or whatever-in the public mind, ALL gun owners are the NRA. Regardless of whether you are or not. Perception is reality. And, the OC group is being perceived in a negative light. No amount of continued OC rallies in restaurants, malls, bars, etc, will change that. So, what liberty are you referring to? Because we all stand to lose some, while you gain, literally, none.

        • Bill R you are exactly right. Every time these dumbasses pull a stunt to get their rocks off by toting a rifle at the coffee shop, the rest of us who possess and carry weapons responsibly cede a little a more of the high ground to progressive liberals desperate for any excuse to subvert the 2nd amendment.

          Texas arguably has some of the most permissive and lenient common sense gun laws in the world, but that will never be enough for the disturbing minority of idiots and their irrational obsession with open carry.

  57. Finally someone with some clout actually had the nerve to call out these idiots. It seemed that, after every single one of their “protests”, another business that had previously been friendly or at least neutral towards guns decided it was going to bar guns from its premises. The average citizen, for some odd reason, is turned off by a crowd of people openly carrying rifles into a restaurant. These idiots want businesses that have to cater to a wide variety of people to put their money where the protesters’ mouths are.

  59. Case in point: this is being touted as the antis biggest win yet. Yup. That “liberty” you keep screaming about here? Well, its being flushed down the drain for the rest of us. You want OC in TX-that’s your end statement, right? And, your two choices for governor BOTH support it, right? So, you could, theoretically, stop this, right? Yet, you choose not to. Look at all the anti pages today: Moms Demand, Everytown, Brady, Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, etc-they are ALL seeing this as a huge win. Even though, per your website, you will now dissolve any affiliation from the NRA. So, whats your plans for a lobby group then? How does one state plan to stand up to the millions of dollars that the antis are throwing this year at gun control? You know, there is a saying: how do you eat an elephant. One bite at a time. Seems to the vast majority of us, you are attempting to swallow it whole. And are choking on it in the process.

  60. We will get nowhere by forcing moderates to deal with ridiculous antics like this. Go on and on about how it’s your right, and I’ll go on to tell you about how many folks in that restaraunt were on the fence about guns, and now equate gun ownership and carry with the irresponsibility shown by these people. We have rights yes, and when we as a whole choose to exercise those rights irresponsibly, we walk a fine line where “just one more” provides the impetus for more restrictions on our rights. Say “it’s my right” all you want; you yourself will be the downfall of open carry.

  61. I appreciate the NRA coming out in favor of common sense and being blunt on the foolish tactic of demonstrating in favor of OC handgun,
    by somehow thinking that OC long guns in restaurants, is going to make the point, better.

    All it does is scare those who are not familiar, and lead the politicians to do the same, ban OC long guns. Remember, lawyers dont get paid to say yes- they get paid to say no, to play it safe. And most politicians are lawyers, and will chase the money.

  62. I have to agree with the NRA. While we donot need any “common sense” gun laws we do need to have common sense good manners.

  63. TOC, those of us who live in states with sensible OC and CC gun laws are laughing at you right now. I’ve CC’d for over 34 years in Alabama.
    Listen carefully.
    We’re laughing at you and your restaurant rifle boys right now.

    • I hear what you’re saying Greg, but it’s not so funny to us. The only restriction of any substance that Texas requires of citizens and visitors who aren’t prohibited from possessing firearms (convicted felons etc) is that if a handgun is carried on your person away from your residence or vehicle you must be licensed to carry and the weapon must be concealed. You don’t have to be licensed at all to carry any type of legal firearm in your vehicle in Texas, but a handgun carried in a vehicle cannot be in plain view. There is no restriction whatsoever carrying long guns plain view or not. Those are straight forward and simple firearms regulations that the overwhelming majority of Lone Star State gun owners are quite content with. Up to this point the manner of carry for long guns has pretty much been taken care of by exercising common sense, but the open carry protest imbeciles are hell bent on f*@king it up for the rest of us by foolishly riling up and scaring the $#it out of the general public.

  64. There was an article awhile back that had me convinced to open carry a hand gun. It is legal in my state. However, I don’t feel that I can now because I will be associated with people who:
    1. Appear not to be acting in a safe manner with long guns (4 rules violations – the most important reason to me),
    2. Dress and act like the stereotype portrayed by the media for gun people,
    3. Tried to use a very complex tactic (we carry long guns because we aren’t allowed to carry pistols and we wouldn’t normally carry long guns if we could only carry pistols and we know long guns annoy people but pistols wouldn’t and … and… too many twists and turns for the average low information voter to follow),
    4. have allowed the media to take away the message and attach their own anti-gun narrative to it, therefore defeating the original purpose, and,
    5. have shown that people of the gun can be just as unsafe as the antis claim. Luckily, there have been no tragedies but if there is even one, that will be used as proof of the blood in the streets claims of the antis (they will conveniently ignore the many other states with open carry and no blood running in the streets).

    We could argue this stuff all day long but here is where the anti’s will beat us. They are flexible. They change tactics. Even though many of their tactics are ridiculous and easy to see through (even low information people seem to sniff out the wrong logic), they move on to a new tactic quickly as soon as the current one fails. Sometimes, POTG make fun of this, even on this site. Let’s open our minds and see if this might be a strength rather than a weakness (yes, I know they have to do this because their message is weak but now our message has taken a small hit from these recent events).

    Is it possible for people of the gun to be as flexible and move on from this clearly failed tactic? Even if you don’t believe it is a bad idea, please listen to your colleagues in the gun community. For me, the bottom line is safety and personal responsibility. When gun owners don’t consider safety or personal responsibility, I have to consider that maybe these aren’t true gun owners (false flag from the antis) or that maybe not all gun owners are aware of their responsibility to themselves and others. Gun ownership normally aligns with a philosophy of personal responsibility and anti-gunners typically align with a philosophy of the state as responsible for the subjects. Let’s sway each other rather than letting the state dictate our beliefs to us.

  65. “We have met the enemy, and it is us.”

    No, I’m not referring to the demonstrators. I’m referring to the pathetic closet fascists on this site who are more concerned with how dull eyed suburbanites perceive them than with practicing actual freedom. It’s true, you really can’t trust anyone. Here I thought there were real 2A supporters on this site. Turns out the second anything becomes confrontational or uncomfortable, they turn tail and run, throwing their own side to the curb.

    You’re all pathetic. Our gun rights are doomed with the likes of you defending them, because all you’re doing is paying lip service while “politely” endorsing the demonization of those who legally practice their rights. Due to your crippling fear of actually standing up for your rights, the slow burn to fascism continues at a steady pace. And you’ll walk right into the pit, proclaiming your love of the 2A the whole way.

    Was this demonstration smart? No. Neither was refusing to get up from a bus seat for a white man.

    • “…more concerned with how dull eyed suburbanites perceive them…”

      It’s not just dull-eyed suburbanites. I see you in a restaurant holding your AR at low ready like you’re going out beyond the Green Line, and I’m going to look askance at you, too. Because it’s antisocial and completely unnecessary. Understand me clearly, my problem is not with the gun, it’s with your behavior. A slung rifle might get a second look from me, but only if it’s an interesting rifle. Your hand on the grip and your finger near the trigger, and suddenly I’m going to be paying too much attention to you to enjoy my burrito.

    • For the reasons I listed above, the antis won this round. We’ve been winning a lot lately so it is only grown up to admit that one of our tactics wasn’t the best choice. I was convinced about open carry and at first that these demonstrations were good (although I didn’t understand why people didn’t include signs or some way of explaining it – the message is very complex in Texas – by the way, I still support these activities in other places where people are acting smart and friendly and it is clearly working like in Oklahoma). When I saw pictures that appeared that people had long guns at low ready in crowded areas very likely sweeping peoples’ legs, they lost me – safety first, period. Personal responsibility. Putting your need to demonstrate a right above safety is making your right more important than others’ right to life.

      On another note, the “dull eyed suburbanites” are voters. We should try to reach them. Some of these open carry demonstrations seem to be working while others give away leverage to the antis. Let’s analyze this and figure out what is working and do more of that.

    • Even dull eyed suburbanites are voters. And don’t think that sweet Heller decision can’t evaporate along with your 2nd Am. rights. If the next president is named Hillary, actuarial tables say that Antonin Scalia and his crew of solid judges will lose a member or two. When that happens, the 5-4 majority will become a 4-5 or 3-6 minority. The next gun case to come forward will rewrite the Bill of Rights with a big blank spot between Amendments I and III.

      If you want to keep your rights, stop pissing off the voters who’ll pave the way for expansion or destruction of our rights. Without them and their support (or at least acquiescence) — dull eyed or no — the Bill of Rights is just a piece of paper.

    • I don’t know how long you’ve been here, but things have changed drastically – for the worst – very recently.

      Lot of, how you say…. new people!

  66. tooling all heavy in a macdonalds. wow fu<king cool stupid. please stop please.

  67. It’s interesting to observe these exchanges, because they mirror the state of or political system today and the extreme polarization that is crippling the process.

    Using gun rights/control as a microcosm, there are the extremes on both sides whose passionate fervor has no room tolerance. That intolerance is not just directed towards the other side, but at those who are not 100% in agreement with the absolutes. We can argue about the “shalls” and “shall nots” and origins of “rights” both what could be considered natural, granted, basic human, whatever and never reach agreement. In the real world, it comes down to politics and the crafting of deals. Even the Constitution was a set of compromises when it comes down to it.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. OC in TX is ours to lose and we’re doing a damn good job of pissing it away.

  68. It is encouraging to read so many comments roundly condemning the idiocy of the Chipotle Ninja crowd and the keyboard commandos defending them.

  69. Everyone here seems to be reading the same book but on a different page. I think we all agree open carry is fine and should be recognized as a basic fundamental right. But the way in which you show support for said cause is what’s at issue…not the right. Those in favor of this demonstration can’t seem to make that distinction.

    Lets look at what’s happened since these folks “showed their support”. Chipotle (one of my favorite spots to enjoy lunch) now will no longer allow me to carry in their restaurants. Hence, I will no longer spend a dime there. Why would they all of a sudden do such a thing you ask? Because of a silly demonstration that garnered far more negative reaction from the public than positive.

    There is nothing wrong with open carry of long guns (IMHO). I’m behind it 100%. But to demonstrate in such a manner (If you haven’t seen the original pics of the Chipotle demo you should) is idiotic. Makes everyone in support look like idiots even though we’re smarter than any lib tard anti.

  70. Food for thought:

    Let’s say, if you wish to open carry…leave the tacticooled scary black rifle with kitchen sink at home, and take the prettiest wooden stock rifle or shotty you have instead. Bonus points for WWII milsurps.

  71. Know this, if you actually carry a firearm for self defense, open carry negates any tactical advantage if you happen to stray into an armed encounter since a visible weapon is the equivalent wearing a big neon “Shoot Me First” sign. But I must admit that while I have been somewhat ambivalent about proposed open carry legislation in Texas, some of the idiocy expressed in this forum has caused me to re-evaluate the merits of OC since it will provide the rest of us with common sense the means to immediately identify armed dumbasses when they cross our path.

Comments are closed.