On Monday, the NRA-ILA issued a “grass roots alert” on the open carry kerfuffle in the Lone Star State. [Click here to read.] The gun control industrial complex seized on the statement as vindication of their jihad against open carry in specific and “gun nuts” in general. Yesterday, NRA-ILA jefe and NRA Veep-apparent Chris Cox took to Cam and Company to issue a retraction. Cox called the alert as a “mistake.” “It shouldn’t have happened,” Cox said, blaming the statement as a “staffer’s personal opinion.” “It was a poor word choice,” the NRA-ILA Director added. That said, Cox stands by the gun rights group’s assessment that long gun open carry in Texas restaurants is tactically inadvisable. That said, Cox said “we support open carry . . . unapologetically” – just before apologizing. Carry on then? That one’s left open. [h/t b0bb33z3r]
A staff position at the NRA-ILA hq just opened up.
Someone at the NRA showed some cojones and took a stand. They will now be fired immediately and unapologetically. Now my world makes sense again. Sadly. Still.
“Someone at the NRA without Cojones posted a scurrilous attack against American patriots practicing a G-d given right.
They will now be fired immediately and unapologetically.”
Fixed it for you.
+1
It’s a right to have free expression. Do you think we must all bow and thank those who take a photo of themselves grinning and burning a flag?
Bullpucky. *Some* of these open carry folks are hurting the very cause they use to get attention and take sweet fb pics.
While I hate the act of flag burning I support the right of those who do it as an act of protest. May as well just let the dems pass their amendment to give congress the right to repeal the 1st amendment of their enemies.
When will people realize that just because you CAN, doesn’t mean you SHOULD?
STOP TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS. We know what you’re doing. CUT THE CRAP. You already took away open carry of pistols in TX and CA. Now you’re coming to take away my open carry of rifles? Why? Who could have paid a patriot enough to make them think it’s ok to steal my liberties? No one.
You are either an anti-liberty plant, or you think your right to act like a jack hole, to get attention, trumps my rights to open carry responsibly. Scaring VOTERS is not the way to make them accept your position.
Oh, and if a citizen sees you at the low ready in Chipotle, and shoots, he ain’t going to jail. You were being aggressive with a gun.
Why again did Texas ban open carry of handguns? Are you sure that the ban isn’t okay with Texas courts because Texas has concealed carry licensing laws? If you are going to broadly and incorrectly assign blame then why don’t you add concealed carry license holders to your tirade?
I’ll take credit for the retraction. I delivered a message the NRA during this week’s fundraising call, letting them know there will be no more money for them this year and they might not get my money next year because of this. I’m torn on the subject of open carry demonstrations with black rifles (demonstrations, not the idea of legal open carry in and of itself), but this was a broad brush strokes communication and a huge mistake on the part of the NRA. Huge. IMHO.
Way to alienate part of your audience. Well done! Jackwagons…
The mistake was made by Chris Cox issuing a retraction. Chipotle Commandos are idiots.
Agreed.
Double-Plus AGREED. We ALL need to be “Good Will Ambassadors” for gun owners generally — and advocates in particular.
Agree. Guns are for recreation, defense, and war, they aren’t protest signs.
Wrong, politics is war without the physical casualties. A opportunist lefty (who I won’t name) said “politics grows from the barrel of the gun”. And as always, the age old saying, the three things that keep the government accountable are, the soap box, ballot box and cartridge box.
Well, until politics becomes war with physical casualties and we’ve exhausted the soap box, and the ballot box, and move on to the ammo box… a gun is not a protest sign.
Using a gun as a protest sign while exercising your soap box makes about as much sense as using a protest sign as a gun when exercising your ammo box.
It makes it look like you want to skip right to the ammo box. That’ll give the other side a whole lot of ammo for their soap box and their ballot box!
@Don: It’s usually foolish to wait for the criminal to take the first shot. High noon draw on the town street was fiction. If someone or something is an imminent threat then one is wise to neutralize that threat by appropriate means. 😉
In the case of a gun as a protest sign… It’s a tool. How it is used at the time is what’s important.
Actually, He is right. I am waiting to see further reaction from the NRA, If they do not wholly and unreservidly retract this surrender, fire the idiot who wrote it, and back the OC people I will stop sending any money to them beyond dues.
You have to be an NRA member to use the closest range to where I live.
NRA member since 1981.
@John B, pure idiocy.
Spot On!
The mistake was issuing a retraction, rather than a clarification.
The clarification should have been that the open carry protests are great, but to not be d!cks about it…like those two guys holding their rifles at the ready in the TTAG post last month.
Rifle slung on the back or at the waist: good.
Rifle held at the low ready: bad.
Zumbo, Metcalf, the unnamed NRA writer and El Mac — all snakes in the grass.
@Ralph, I’ll pardon your dumbass comment. You have no idea of what you speak – and it shows.
This NRA writer hurt us. Just like Dick, they gave ammo to MDA. That is unforgivable with what’s at stake. He may as wrote an article about how no hunter needs more than 1 shot to practice their 2nd amendment right with a nice picture of him shaking hands with Bloomberg. He has done more damage than the open carry groups he is commenting on.
@B, no, the NRA writer spoke the truth. These cheesedicks walking around with an AR at low ready are dunces. And they make the rest of us look like dunces. THEY are the ones that have played right into the hands of anti-gun clowns and the leftist media.
I’vs taken the decision to let my NRA membership lapse, probably for good.
Not because of the NRAs actions.Far from it. The NRA is working in spite of gun owners, not because of us.
The reason is other gun owners. Out of hundreds of millions of gun owners, only 5 million bother to pay the minute fee to be members. An even smaller subset care enough about their rights to be politically active. Why? Because most of us gun owners don’t give a flying crap about the RKBA.
We say the antis warp and bend the facts for their own good. I see the same behavior among our own kind. So many of us are willing to yell “Molon Laabe !” Online, but can’t be bothered to understand marketing and basic human psychology. What movment has ever gotten traction against the prevailing social norm by rubbing it in the faces of ordinary people?
Folks are all about the Constitution, until it’s time to get politicially active . Then it’s bellyaching about corruption and the two party system. Folks have no problem lining up in front of the state house to protest an AWB after its proposed and passed. Even more idiots don’t have any problem walking around in public with loaded long guns while ordering a taco. It’s too bad they weren’t that dedicated on Election Day.
Given that most gun owners don’t have the long term vision to see beyond next week’s range trip, I’m taking my dues and buying ammo . Ill need it when the antis win the culture war and sucessfullly con the next generation into voting away the RKBA.
@ST, by that logic, you should join HCI, Inc or any of the myriad anti-gunner groups out there to hasten your chance to use your stored ammo.
Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I’ll take this post as just the venting I’m sure it is, and catch up with you next time, ST.
You’re darn right I’m venting.
You should be too. How is it that we as a community can be long term planners when it comes to navigating NFA paperwork, but suddenly revert to teenage grade ADD when it comes to politics?
News flash-there’s no debate . The Constitution has made the subject of gun control clear for centuries. The only reason there’s a need to even discuss the subject is because of a failure of marketing vision on our part.The antis understand human nature , and so many of us are stubbornly resisting that understanding.
I’m not exempting myself from the party either. But I am exempting myself from the psychological illusion that the NRA alone can stand against the cultural will of America. Take a look around your nearest public school. Ask yourself where we’ll be in ten years , at this rate.
>>The Constitution has made the subject of gun control clear for centuries.<<
No, it hasn't. It's very ambiguity is why the issue is so politicized. None of our rights in the Bill of Rights is absolute, all of them can be legally curtailed by other's rights or the government. Our 1A rights don't cover a freedom to libel, slander, or divulge state secrets. Our rights to assemble can be abridged by a lawful order to disperse during a riot or a declaration of martial law. Freedom of religion doesn't mean gobbling peyote or human sacrifice (sorry, American-Aztecs!). Our rights against unlawful search and seizure can also be narrowed during war or terror, as with the PATRIOT Act. The 1934 National Firearms Act was popularly viewed as constitutional for decades, and many legal scholars believe an INDIVIDUAL (non-militia) right to bear arms was only really established by SCOTUS in 2008.
Taken literally, a right to "keep and bear arms" doesn't just mean firearms. . . it could also apply to chemical, biological and nuclear arms. Every rational supporter of the 2A has some notion of an upper limit to lethality that shouldn't be available to the public, and that needs to be specified. A document written in 1789 is going to require continual clarification as culture and technology evolves.
ST, you’re either in the fight or you’re not. If you are, we stand shoulder to shoulder with you. If you’re not, get lost.
@Fred Zaitchik: Nope. The 2A is very clear and is relevant today. (Please see the TTAG posting on the Salon.com article.) The only way it would not be relevant is if human nature had somehow evolved in the brief time since its drafting. People of your mindset are part of what make a bloody conflict inevitable in this nation’s future. Today we see tyranny and more are realizing it as time goes on. That is part of what the Second Amendment is about; defense against and deterrence of tyranny. If tyranny in our nation can no longer be deterred then the People will eventually have to defend against it.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep an bear arms shall not be infringed.
“I’vs taken the decision to let my NRA membership lapse, probably for good.”
Just as I did back in 1981. Because I decided that I had been stabbed in the back in exactly this fashion for the last time.
A “mistake”? NO! A pattern of behavior. This was not the work of some lone staffer, as stated by the NRA. Note the press release here;
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/5/good-citizens-and-good-neighbors-the-gun-owners-role.aspx
It begins; “Here at NRA, we are…” WE are, not some staffer is. It has no byline credit, as it would have if it had been written by an individual. It was the position of the NRA as a whole, not one staffers opinion, as stated by Cox. That is a LIE! Period, and full stop.
The retraction was only issued after a backlash of cancellations by their members. It would take access to their internal statistics to prove that, But I will bet a lot that those stats will not be made available, which is proof by itself. Why would they not want to show the number of angry cancellations of memberships in the days following unless they had something to hide? This is nothing more than politicians running for cover and hiding their misdeeds, exactly as is always practiced in DC these days.
I thought the comments about the OC group was fine. basically support for the cause, not support how the means. maybe i’m being foolish but what if rather than dressing like they were staying home all day, the featured young men dressed in their “sunday best” and had non tacticaled shotguns, rifles (M1, mosin, winchester 70), and screw it i’d tote a musket for fun. that way the conversation does’t start with “you don’t need XYZ”
Yes, I would think the strategy would be to “normalize” the sight of legally owned arms being peaceably carried by responsible citizens. You have to put your best foot forward dress nice carry pretty guns with wood. If you look like you walked out of Leave it to Beaver people will be more likely to accept what you are advocating. Also maybe stop going to national chains, they have legal and PR depts. Shop local! Go to locally owned restaurants and stores. Be nice call ahead and make sure its okay. You don’t win people over by shocking or scaring.
The message OCT is getting out there to the regular citizen is “OMG they can walk around with an AR-15s? And they want to do it with pistols too?”
^^^ This.
Amen brother! IF (big if) the NRA really wanted to help THIS is what they would be advocating for. Not stop exercising your rights, but to do so in a more responsible (and more popular) fashion.
If OCT would carry remington 700s or 10/22s to these rallies they would look much less threatening, and the message and desensitizing to open carry would be more effective. They can still have their ARs(right in their truck if they feel the need), just introduce the public sheeple to them in a more subtle way.
How would carrying around a bunch of bolt guns show the absurdity of Texas’s open carry gun laws? Seems like most people don’t even realize we are one of the few states without any legal way to open carry a pistol. The goal is to get that message out by protesting in an organized group, contacting authorities ahead of time.
Outrage is being manufactured by MDA, these businesses knew ahead of time, and the vast majority of protesters are reasonable friendly people that give a positive impression to the people they meet during protests. How many people here have been to any of these? Do you just rely on what MDA and the news tells you?
As a life member of the NRA since 1985, I feel comfortable stating that, in my opinion, Mr. Cox made a serious error pandering and kowtowing to the OCT radicals. Unfortunate, but true.
What is truly unfortunate is that folks like the OCT members and TSTEW, above, simply are so radical and emotionally blind that they do not understand how they create direct support for the socialists and gun ban crowd. “Acting out” like spoiled 3rd graders will win no support from those on the fence and will force the undecided into the arms of the “more laws now” crowd.
The NRA position should have been to apologize for using the word “weird” and to further amplify that the OCT crowds are not a positive presentation for our gun rights defense. We need to continually take the “high road” from a moral and ethical standpoint, and this type of stuff isn’t doing that.
@Gene Forsythe, so true.
You make those assertions and they sound plausible, but what actual evidence is there to support them. Who are these mythical fence sitters, so easily offended and discontented, that we just barely lost our chance to transform them into staunch 2A supporters? The civil rights, gay rights, peace and suffrage movements were all replete with in your face antics, widely dismissed at first, but ultimately embraced. To me, “take the high road” sounds a lot like “go sit in the back of the bus” or “just stay in the closet.”
“You make those assertions and they sound plausible, but what actual evidence is there to support them.”
You’re kidding, right? Look up “Flakoo Ocampo”. Open Carry Texas is a slow-motion train-wreck. It is now doing more harm than good.
YOU are kidding right? I searched exactly what you typed via cut and paste, on google, bing, and yahoo. Would you care to guess how many hits came up? Exactly ZERO. Way to make up your “facts” bro! When called on lies its easy to cover with yet more fiction is it not?
Now feel free to use your per-arranged, “it was just a typo” excuse…
My bad. I can’t spell. The kid’s name is “Flakoo Delcampo”. Try this.
https://imgur.com/a/Yy1g3
And this:
http://aattp.org/meet-the-dangerous-ammosexuals-and-gun-fetishists-that-invaded-chipotle-with-their-blessing/
So what? There are always going to be people who abuse, misuse, or paint a poor picture. You minimize those individuals, not the entire cause. Progressives never publically highlight their idiots and pause their entire drive toward Statism because of their actions.
“Who are these mythical fence sitters, so easily offended and discontented, that we just barely lost our chance to transform them into staunch 2A supporters?”
Me. Minus the easily offended part.
Radical??? Huh?
Respectfully, and in case you didn’t read closely, I’m not down with open carry demonstrations – I even said as much. You won’t see me walking into my local Home Depot with my EBR slung over my shoulder. I’d agree with all of the posters above and below who call such behavior our as unnecessary, unhelpful and, frankly, harmful to the cause. There are better ways to educate than to shock or horrify.
My angst with the matter was far more the tone of the original message from the NRA that served no purpose other than to paint OC’ers who are being active (again and to clarify, I believe their approach is misguided) in the pro-2A realm as lunatics…of which I’d bet a high percentage are due paying members. It’s biting the hand that feeds you. Again, there’s a better way.
Radical…? Hope this helps clear that up.
None of these people have even been to an open carry protest. They just look at what the mainstream news and MDA tells them to think. NRA reacted to MDA press releases, just like people here are. Letting them control the narrative with no first hand knowledge of what they are condemning.
The open carry demonstrations in Texas have been more or less safe. A grand total of 0 people were shot or even bludgeoned with those black rifles.
Just for kicks, I took my AR through the drive through at McDonald’s last night. The experiment wasn’t whether the person at the window would notice — she didn’t — it was whether I could sling it, grab my food, and exit my vehicle in a timely manner.
I could do it, and I drive a Ford Focus. It wasn’t very comfy, and I may have bruises on my shins from walking inside without my hands on the rifle to control it, but I could do it.
Would I want to have that thing slung all day? No. I don’t even want to wear it for an hour. Empty holster protest would be preferred for me, because I am a wussy.
@Every Round for Gun Safety, sounds like you need a better sling bro. Shins….really?
Every Round’s “test drive-through” brings home my major concern, and therefore opposition, to OCT’s media tactics: the more Chipotle Commandoes out there the greater the chance for a ND. It’s going to happen sometime, somewhere, and will likely be up on Youtube almost immediately for a national media storm. Hopefully no one will be hurt, but TTAG’s future “Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Year Award” has many candidates in contention. Most restaurants, chains or otherwise, just don’t want to have to deal with the liability. . . . and we’re just one ND away from seeing an industry-wide lobbying effort to make sure their eating spaces can maintain the perception of being safe and friendly for that frazzled suburban mom and her kids.
Two point sling bro…single point slings are for Rainbow Six video game cover art. And operators…
I think what needs to stop is the vitriol of the people against the open carry demonstrators. That in itself is enough to make me want to defend them. I like the fact that someone is out there defending all our rights. You may not like the tactics, but the personal attacks on the way they look or the language used to describe people you do not know may be more harmful to the overall cause.
+1000. It’s one thing to argue against the effectiveness and wisdom of open carry activists going into private companies to make their point. It’s another to call them radicals or idiots or worse. That is the same emotion-based language that the antis use. They don’t make the finer distinctions between open carry and concealed carry. They think we’re radicals and idiots for owning guns at all.
I don’t agree with the name calling and such, but I do understand where the vitriol is coming from. The problem is that OCT’s activities are beginning to have a negative impact on people’s gun rights in other states. I live in a state where a “no gun” sign has force of law. If a company implements a nationwide policy because of an open carry demonstration in one of their Texas stores, that has an impact on me. That said, near as I can tell, the few businesses that have changed their policies seem to have gone the “Starbucks” route and made a polite request to keep your firearms at home. But if this keeps up, we could be looking at stricter nationwide policies — from companies who otherwise would not care — due to the actions of a few people in Texas. That’s where the anger comes from. It’s has to be a two-way street: if OCT wants the people of the gun to stand with them, then OCT has to think about how their actions impact the broader firearms community.
If the tactics suck then they’re not defending out rights. And some of these people- like the ninjas in question- look like they’re just in it for a photo-op and to garner personal attention, not for any cause.
Our open carry friends in Texas should all opt to carry “Cap and Ball” revolvers. They can legally open carry them there and look much better on the news. Most folks don’t find people carrying them rude and the have the added bonus of being a proven man killer.
That tack helped the AWB of 94. Black rifles with shoulder things that go up = lethal and scary. Muskets, hunting rifles, non-scary 5.56 looking rifles = benign and safe. We keep shouting from the rooftops that the AR is the same thing as the Mini-14 and it’s all cosmetic so stop complaining and then we want to only parade around the Mini-14. Let’s bring back the AWB and everyone use Mini-14’s. They’re less scary to the general public you know.
I’m curious how many people here who are self-proclaimed “responsible and upstanding” gun owners and have expressed nothing but vitriol and 4rd grade level insults at these OC’ers has actually reached out to some of these people and offered constructive criticism or some form of potential guidelines to many avoid bad PR? Slinging mud is just as damming to the civil rights movement and the “culture war” as anything else. Alinsky tactics 101, creative division within your opponent. They’re doing it and they’re winning because of it.
You got the wrong guy pal, I open carry all the time and have attended open carry events. Hell even when I concealed carry I do it so badly it might as well be open carry.
I just find it rude to carry around a long arm in town if you are not expecting trouble.
For example the folks carrying their ARs at the Bundy Ranch perfectly understandable . Carrying a long arm at a peaceful protest then carrying it while dining in a taco joint afterwards – rude.
It’s not as rude as say taking a crap on the table or voting Democrat but it’s still rude and definitely not putting your best foot forward. Of course they have the right to carry their rifles but just because they can does not mean they should. Carrying a Cap n Ball revolver would accomplish the same goal without being rude and or looking like a wannabe dweeb.
The right of free speech allows you to say what you want but there are somethings good taste and manners would dictate you not say in front of kids or while others are eating right? Well there are times and places to carry one type of gun and times and places to carry another.
^^ Holy shit someone is speaking with some of that common sense I keep hearing about just because you criticise people like the “chipotle commandos” doesnt mean you’re anti-gun rights I consider them anti-stupidity
The open carry demonstrations have proven to be the Leeroy Jenkins of the gun rights cause.
They rush in screaming their battle cry regardless of the effectiveness or the outcome.
Brilliant! Haha!
The statement was absolutely correct.
The Chipotle Ninjas and their fanatical cheerleaders are all a bunch of idiots who can not understand the difference between strategy and tactics.
I have been reading your derogatory and hateful comments about people whom you have never met or spoken to for several days now, in addition to your years of holier than thou nonsense. It is incredibly unbecoming of a religious leader, especially one from my own religion and denomination. So how about instead of calling others childish names for fighting for their rights, even if you or I may disagree with their methods, you send OCT an email with suggestions, not just condescension as is your typical tact.
Gee, YA THINK?!
One can only hope a retraction to the retraction is made. Open Carry Texas is nothing but detrimental to the 2nd Amendment rights of all Americans & need to be condemned for their asinine behavior. The only thing the NRA should appologize for is not instructing people wishing to perform open carry demonstrations in a responsible manner that doesn’t alienate the undecided public or the majority of the gun rights community.
Er’day, they wafflin’.
This is sad. Yesterday I was thinking ‘finally the NRA has some balls and takes a stand’ and boom, they go right back on it. Those assclowns in Texas are doing nothing but hurting our cause.
If you are a young mom with two kids sitting there eating a burrito and 15 guys come in with AR’s and AK’s, your first thought is not going to be ‘oh look at those fine fellows, here for lunch.’ Your first thought is naturally going to be ‘oh my God, are we all about to die?’
In that instant, you alienate the people you scare, and then through word of mouth, everyone they know, and then through the media, everyone who is on the fence.
The NRA’s point was perfect: Just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD.
All the people I talk about about the RKBA who I am starting to move into our corner ALWAYS get freaked out by these things and come back at me with the news stories and photos of those nitwits, and I have to explain that they are a fringe element who just want to get publicity. And I was excited to be able to say ‘Even the NRA says that is a dumb thing to do.’
I guess I’m too much of a pragmatist to understand people who force the issue to their own detriment, and who will be fine with losing rights because they took things too far, so they can say ‘well, I never compromised my principles, ever. Hand me that air rifle. Gee I sure miss my AR…”
I think they’re trying to walk the same fine line I’m walking. I think planned open carry rallies like the one at the Alamo last year are great. I went to that, walked all over downtown with my AR, and didn’t get a second glance.
But invading neutral businesses and causing problems for them is counterproductive. So is following people who oppose you, because it’s borderline aggressive. We can’t show any hint of aggression in our protests.
TX politicians are already leaning towards open carry. There’s no need to be extra provocative now, as there might have been earlier in the movement.
I have to agree with the NRA on this one: They were trying to warn that some OC activities are actually counter-productive to the end game and only end up giving more points on the scoreboard for the gun-control lobby. I don’t think they are against the OC movement in Texas, but OC-Texas does need to re-evaluate it’s tactics. I don’t think they realize it but they are not making headway in the PR game to get the hearts and minds of the voting non-gun owners on their side.
The NRA is to gun rights as the National Action Network and SPLC are to civil rights. Some posters here also don’t quite get what a right is much like the aforementioned organizations.
The open carry folks have a right, its within the law as it is written, and demonstrates the logical lunacy in that existing law. No its not tactical or practical to carry a long gun into a restaurant, but its a political demonstration not a military maneuver.
What the media and MDA have to say about it completely irrelevant.
I let my NRA membership lapse because I’m tired of them endorsing moderates and liberals. Do you really think Harry Reid is a supporter of our rights? Yesterday I unfortunately had to vote against the NRA endorsed candidate in our primary. The guy I voted for is absolutely conservative pro-2a (and won). The other guy was first to strike a deal with NRA, but across the board a moderate.
Anti’s?????????????
How many times on this blog has someone taken a post about RIFLE OC’ers going into a private business, having pictures taken with the AR/AK’s at the low ready , which express that it is a bad PR idea and then having their opinion flamed for being anti OC.
Here we are pro 2A and some people will not read what was opined for giving a negative opinion regarding a very specific weapon, manner and place of carry and take it as a general condemnation of OC.
So I am not surprised at all when Anti’s are able to do the same.
My opinion is:
During this delicate time of establishing (not protecting) our RKBA, we should not carry rifles into commercial establishments.
Public demonstrations in public space, Maybe OK. Texas kinda forces that approach.
Holstered side arms while respectably dressed, absolutely. That is normalization.
After all, what would this blog say about regular police officers always carrying rifles on the street?
We would say the government was trying to normalize us to the face of tyranny.
Rifles on the street outside of a demonstration is not normal. We don’t carry the demonstration placards on sticks into Chipotle, so if your rifle is part of the demonstration why carry them in there unless invited.
No matter what I say here, someone will think I am anti OC.
I’m not sure what you are. Your post is all over the place. You sound deeply conflicted.
@ST and everyone else who let their NRA membership lapse,
I hereby question you’re allegiance to the RKBA. The NRA isn’t perfect. Neither is the SAF, Calguns, FPC, and definitely not NAGR. Join them anyways. They are doing more for the 2nd Amendment rights then all of your self-righteous comments on TTAG. Join up and help change them from the inside. If it can be done better, help show them the way.
For example, I’d tell the Chipotle commandos that they are tactically unsound carrying an AR inside a busy restaurant, and that they look ridiculous. Open carry a handgun. Preferably in a holster with retention. Want to participate in a rally with hundreds of like-minded individuals who can watch your back? Awesome. I support your rights either way, I’d just rather not see pictures of overweight mall ninjas with ARs while your stuffing yourself with burritos.
I travel to WI frequently, and could open carry an AR if I wanted to. Since that behavior alarms people in many situations, I choose not to. If I did, I probably do so in a suit or dress clothes. If I’m associated with the 2A, I want to make a positive impression. That is what many of the open carry commandos are failing to do.
Well said!
I think the point is if they could open carry a handgun, they would…
I would prefer large, organized demonstrations with a diverse firearms ownership represented, peacefully parading down the boulevard, but that’s not always available. Ultimately, a right is a right and you’re never going to get it recognized by tip toeing around whispering “Mother, may I?”
There was a time when a black man holding a white woman’s hand was scary. There was a time when two men kissing was shocking. There was a time when allowing women to vote was considered foolish.
A right is a right and there will always be people who are shocked and scared by your exercising it. It is their irrational fear of you exercising your rights which has been codified in law and has prevented you from exercising them all this time. You’re not going to reverse their anti-firearms bigotry by condoning and appealing to that same bigotry. All you’re going to do with that go along, get along approach is to preserve the prejudice that has perpetuated this injustice for these many generations.
Let the open carriers sit at the lunch counter, I say! Let the open carriers ride in the front if the bus! Separate and unequal is even worse than separate but equal was. It’s time to end this two tiered apartheid system wherein idiot incompetents with badges get full auto rifles and openly carried pistols. Meanwhile, the taxpaying, law abiding people of this country are expected to fund it, be infringed by it, and to shut up about it. No more!
You are absolutely right Paul! These extreme OCT people do NOTHING to help the firearms cause. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. With the mindset of these OCT people, you would think they believe walking into a restaurant with your johnson in your hand will help normalize public masturbation.
I’m calling extreme strawman here, which is typical of BS.
So, you immediately compare a gun to a penis and carrying one to masturbation. Trollin’, comrade? 😉
A shame to see such a total lack of critical thinking skills from those defending the Chipotle Ninja idiots.
Thanks for helping the anti-gun crowd out.
Don’t get your blood pressure up there vicar. Have another pork chop.
And the long parade of personal attacks continues…… And there’s that incredibly offensive ninja slur….yet again….. Having run out of ideas, now you’re running out of insults.
Have to agree with the rev on this one.
The NRA once again waters itself down trying to pander to different interests and ends up not having a point to make. It’s a shame, for a moment back there they not only had something to say but sounded like the most reasonable voice in the room.
It’s nice to know so many support firearm freedom…as long as you only assert the freedom in ways they approve.
What’s next? You only have freedom of speech as long as you don’t say anything scary or offensive?
Or, you only have religious freedom, as long as it’s a religion that is socially acceptable?
Or, how about losing the right of unreasonable searches because how you dress. You know, because you could be wearing something offensive.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
You don’t have to agree with what the OCers are doing, but, in my opinion, if you don’t at least support their right to do it, you are no better than the anti gun crowd…
Yeah, right, vote. The 2010 midterms were supposed to be a Republican Renaissance, and in the last four years they’ve done just about doodley squat in the way of blocking the Obammunist agenda.
It’s time to wake up and vote for the party that has had the right answer from the get-go, the Libertarians! Take off the blinders! Your herd has failed you! Break away from the crowd! Be FREE!
@RG, yeah….nothing like joining a herd of dope smoking skinners.
Unfortunately, the Libertarians aren’t quite ready for serious political fighting. I don’t know if it is because of the lack of direction evident at their conventions, the weed, or small amount of experienced political operatives, but the Libertarians (as a party) needs to do more to be effective. The Republican Party, though well experienced at grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory, can at the very least, still raise money and has some national organization, though local chapters can be rather tepid.
When is the NRA going to fight to get rid of all of the restrictions on where a CCW holder can carry?
When the right to carry is secured, the privilege of licensed carry can usually follow. Also, why push for a privilege in a place one cannot actually exercise the right? The right isn’t likely to be respected when it’s simply easier to do so under a licensed privilege. In the long term, secure the privilege while letting the right languish and all that will remain is privilege.
Even Open Carry Texas has come out with an advisory on their WordPress blog to knock it off with respect to barging into private property and making a scene. A week or more before the NRA opened their trap.
Frankly, NRA should have let the local group deal with its people. Making a national issue out of it was about as helpful as the people they were complaining about. Both are grandstanding and neither are helping the cause.
No, all of the free material that Open Carry Texas continually gives Moms Demand Action made it a national issue.
@Yellow Devil,
My mistake. I did not realize that Texas does not allow OC of handguns.
You’d think they had it, with all of the people here raving about Texas and all of its (supposed) gun freedom.
I decided not to read any of the other posts. I think the NRA staffer was totally correct and agree with their opinion regarding the open carry groups. I think the backpedaling does not help anyone.
I will start by saying that I don’t OC long guns. I live in a state where I have a choice on how and what I carry. I am firm supporter of the BoR. I would not pretend to tell people who choose to OC long guns not to. I would not call them names for doing so. I may or may not agree with their methods, but it’s their right. I’m saddened by the responses of some so called 2A supporters. I think some people need to go back and read the opinions written by the framers of the 2nd Amendment. But it’s also your right not to educate yourself before you open your mouth. How unproductive do you think this infighting is?
+1
The NRA Supports Open Carry Except When The NRA Opposes Open Carry
Unless you have been off-line in a remote section of the Amazon rainforest for the last week or so you have undoubtedly heard or read something about the National Rifle Association press release of May 30th which condemned the Second Amendment right to openly carry firearms saying that Open Carry is “weird.”
Today, that link to that press release has been replaced with a video prefaced with the following ludicrous claim by NRA Chief Lobbyist Chris W. Cox “Unequivocally, we support open carry. We’ve been the leader of open carry efforts across this country.”
Has the NRA ever filed a lawsuit seeking to restore our right to openly carry firearms in public for the purpose of self-defense? No! Has the NRA ever filed a lawsuit seeking to preserve a ban on Open Carry? Yes! Has the NRA ever opposed a lawsuit seeking to overturn a ban on Open Carry? Yes!
On April 21, 2010 the National Rifle Association took over a lawsuit filed by a lone plaintiff, Edward Peruta, who sought and was denied a concealed carry permit from San Diego Sheriff William Gore – Peruta v. San Diego. The NRA added a handful of plaintiffs and its official state organization The California Rifle and Pistol Association as a plaintiff and is funding the lawsuit.
The NRA lawyer, Chuck Michel, argued in the Peruta case that California can ban the Open Carry of firearms in public if it wants to. Mr. Michel “warned” the court that if Mr. Peruta and his fellow plaintiffs did not get their permits to carry handguns concealed in public it would entail overturning the ban on openly carrying loaded firearms in public, a ban which the State of California enacted in July of 1967. Mr. Michel neglected to mention that the National Rifle Association endorsed that ban in 1967.
Mr. Michel also warned the court that if his clients did not prevail then that would also entail the overturning of California’s Gun Free School Zone Act of 1995. Mr. Michel told the court that would be drastic (his words not mine). Not only does the NRA oppose Open Carry, the NRA supports gun free school zones and supports them where it does the most harm, in our Federal courts.
In 2010 and 2011 I sought the support of the NRA, including the NRA lobbyist Mr. Cox who refused to even speak with me directly. Mr. Cox said he would only speak with my attorney. And so in May of 2011 I began raising funds to hire an attorney for my lawsuit to overturn California’s ban on openly carrying loaded firearms in public.
The NRA immediately sent out an email to all of its Members’ Councils in California opposing my lawsuit. This was six months before I had even filed my lawsuit in Federal Court. The letter was of course filled with lies and disinformation, but such is the nature of the NRA leadership.
On September 11, 2013 the NRA filed a motion in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals asking that the appeal of my denial of my preliminary injunction be stayed pending the outcome of its concealed carry lawsuit – Peruta v. San Diego. Given that my appeal was a denial of a preliminary injunction I was entitled to a priority hearing. My appeal was fully briefed on October 3, 2013. Oral arguments would have been scheduled by March but it was not to be. An assistant clerk filed a stay of my appeal over my objection and over the objection of California Attorney General Kamala Harris.
On February 13, 2013 the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals published its decision in the Peruta case but immediately stayed the decision going into effect pending the determination of an en banc petition for rehearing by Attorney General Harris.
A lot has happened in the Federal Appellate Courts since Mr. Peruta first filed his concealed carry lawsuit. Every Federal Court of Appeals and every state court which has had a concealed carry case come before it, save a divided two judge decision in the Peruta case, has held that the carrying of concealed weapons falls outside of the scope of the Second Amendment because in the landmark decision on the Second Amendment by the United States Supreme Court – District of Columbia v. Heller the High Court said this:
“[A] right to carry arms openly: “This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations.”” District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783 – Supreme Court (2008) at 2809.
“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues.” District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783 – Supreme Court (2008) at 2816.
The US Supreme Court has turned down every cert petition which sought the “shall-issue” of concealed carry permits.
The NRA lawyer, Mr. Michel, now says that the odds are two to one that the Peruta decision will be reversed. The NRA cert petition will be denied. Every concealed carry case pending before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will then collapse. The Supreme Court is not going to reverse itself. Especially not this Supreme Court with Justices Scalia and Thomas as members.
When that happens there will be only one case left standing, my Open Carry case which has always argued that the Second Amendment means exactly what the Supreme Court said in the Heller decision, that Open Carry is the right guaranteed by the Constitution.
It is too late for the NRA to file its own Open Carry lawsuit, even if it wanted to which it clearly does not. My Open Carry lawsuit is not limited to bearing arms in public, I also seek to vindicate our right to keep and carry firearms on our own residential property. When the 1967 ban was enacted it exempted private property. The liberal California courts have all but eliminated that exemption. Unless your home is fully enclosed by a tall, sturdy fence or other significant barrier to keep the public out, the California courts have concluded that everything outside the door of your home is a “public place” at least where firearms are concerned.
The Federal District Court judge assigned to my case went even further and held that not only does the Second Amendment not apply to one’s home, your Second and Fourth Amendment rights do not exist, even in places where it is legal to openly carry firearms.
It took me two and a half years acting as my own attorney but I finally obtained a final, appealable judgment from the district court. Thanks to the decision of this liberal district court judge, my appeal is perfectly framed. Either the US Supreme Court meant what it said or it did not. When my case, and my case alone, is finally decided we will have an answer to that question.
Meanwhile, the NRA will still oppose Open Carry and despite what it says to its members, it will always be a matter of public record that in the case of Peruta v. San Diego the NRA opposed Open Carry and supported gun free school zones.
Charles Nichols – President of California Right To Carry
http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org
http://secure.campaigner.com/Campaigner/Public/t.show?6q0nn–3lyuf-fox07k4&_v=2
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