President Obama addressed last night’s Charleston, South Carolina church shooting before the media today: “I don’t need to be constrained about the emotions tragedies like this raise. I’ve had to make comments like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We don’t have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun.” . . .
Keeping the focus on guns, he continued:
Now is the time for mourning and healing, but let’s be clear: At some point, we as a country, will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.
The victims of the Charlie Hebdo/kosher market shootings were not available for comment.
It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency. It is in our power to do something about it… I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now.
Mass shootings don’t happen in other civilized countries, Mr. President? Really? TTAG commentator Tomahawk provided this partial list in a previous post . . .
Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.
Tours, France, Oct. 29, 2001: Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.
Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man killed eight city-council members after a council meeting.
Erfurt, Germany, April 26, 2002: A former student killed 18 at a secondary school.
Freising, Germany, Feb. 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded.
Turin, Italy, Oct. 15, 2002: Seven people killed on a hillside overlooking the city.
Madrid, Spain, Oct. 1, 2006: A man killed two employees and wounded another at a company that had fired him.
Emsdetten, Germany, Nov. 20, 2006: A former student murdered eleven people at a high school.
Tuusula, Finland, Nov. 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal killed at a high school.
Naples, Italy, Sept. 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded in a public meeting hall.
Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: Ten people shot to death at a college.
Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: A 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers.
Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: Ten people injured when a man opened fire on a nursery school.
Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: Three people killed and two injured by a student at a vocational college.
Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: Three people killed and one injured at a crowded café.
Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: One dead and 15 wounded in an attack on a Sikh temple.
Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: Four people shot to death at a mall.
Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: Twelve killed by a British taxi driver.
Utøya, Norway, July 22, 2011: Anders Breivik uses a car bomb, then shoots and kills 67.
Was the perp on SSRI meds?
Isn’t everybody?
Seriously dude….. unless you’re a published neuroscientist or neuro or psychopharmacologist, STFU because nothing you will say will sound intelligent.
No, Obama’s been off his meds for years now.
You do realize that there are a lot of people who are on SSRI’s that don’t murder people, just like there are a lot of people who own guns that don’t murder people. It’s stupid to pin the blame on anyone thing especially with only anecdotal evidence. More than likely it was a perfect storm of factors that took place in his life.
There are also a lot of socially marginalized kids who don’t shoot up their schools. But the fact that so many of those who do are socially marginalized (and that so many shooters are on SSRIs) makes those two factors to keep an eye on.
No doubt. I think SSRI’s are going to be one of those things that we look back on in a couple decades and shake our heads at how stupid people where to think they where safe in the same way we look down on the smokers of the 1950’s.
Its really sad, I’ve watched that crap destroy my father. As soon as he got insurance for the first time in is life a couple years ago he was immediately on that stuff and since then he has destroyed his business, his marriage and his health. As far as I am concerned that stuff is as bad as meth, and I work with Meth heads everyday.
Nope. But the POTUS clearly was when he said this doesn’t happen in other countries.
He said it doesn’t happen as frequently in other countries.
And it’s true. In these countries with only 10-30% of our population, it only happens about 10-30% as much as it does here.
Why, to get numbers that exceed our mass murder event rate, you’d have to combine all the events for western Europe. And that’s an area with a population of 350-400 million people, compared to 350-370 million in the USA.
Wait a second…
Truth.
I did the research a few months ago and crunched the numbers and compared gun homicide in Europe to those committed in the US with legally owned guns by white shooters. I eliminated all black on black gun homicides because those numbers make up half of all firearm related homicides in the US. Anyway, here’s what I found.
Gun homicides in European nations in 2007 according to http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
UK-41, France-35, Germany-158, Netherlands-55, Czech-20, Poland-35, Italy-417, Switzerland-57, Finland-24, Denmark-15, Norway-2, Belgium-70, Austria-18, Greece-29, Hungary-7, Serbia-45, Portugal-44, Slovakia-10, Spain-90
Total-1172 (and I’m leaving out many Eastern European nations like Albania, Bulgaria, and other former Warsaw Pact nations)
Top 5 most populated countries in Europe and total gun homicides from 2007:
Italy-60 mil, 417 homicides
France-62 mil, 35 homicides
Spain- 46 mil, 90 homicides
Germany-82 mil, 158 homicides
UK-63 mil, 41 homicides
Total Population- ~313 million
Total gun homicides- 741
Top five European nations by gun homicides in 2007:
1. Italy- 417
2. Germany- 158
3. Spain- 90
4. Belgium-70
5. Switzerland-57
Total gun homicides-792
United States
Population- ~320 million
Total gun homicides of whites only in 2010 was 2770 according to http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/blacks-suffer-disproportionate-share-of-firearm-homicide-deaths/
Of the 2770 gun homicides I do not know how many are from guns that were obtained illegally, but if the majority of homicides are from illegal guns then it’s at least 51% bringing that 2770 number down to 1357 at the very least and I’ve seen estimates go as high as 80% which would bring that number down to 554. The middle ground there is 65% at which 969 Caucasian people would be victims of legally owned guns.
Higher rate of gun homicide in the US of Caucasians compared to Europe? Yes. By legally owned guns? Debatable. Is the rate of legally owned gun homicide in the United States so high as to necessitate alarm? No, A person is far more likely to be killed in third world nations like Central/South America, the Middle East, and Africa than in the United States.
Clearly the “responsible, white, male, legal gun owners” are NOT more likely to commit murder with a gun than in Europe. Your argument on gun homicide in the US is based on poor statistical figures and assumption while the overall argument for gun control in the US is based on fear, not fact.”
Comparing the 4th most populated nation on the Earth to European countries with populations a third or a quarter of the size with extremely strict gun laws is asinine. But no one ever said socialists were logical.
@TruthTellers
Uh…Mr. Genius, was my post too subtle for you?
I clearly stated that mass shootings (not homicides, because that wasn’t the topic of Obama’s speech) are only less common in those European countries, because there are fewer people there. And further, that when one compares an equally populated portion of Europe, the rate is about the same as in the USA.
So the Europeans don’t have a lower rate of crazy people shooting up schools, churches, government buildings, etc., even though they have draconian gun control.
Dude, I’m totally agreeing with you I just wanted to show the stats and facts in numbers.
I wonder if the perp was a registered democrat?
Considering the amount of confederate flags this guy sported, I highly doubt it.
If memory serves, the confederate flag was designed by a Democrat. Just sayin’.
The Democrat Party is the party of the Civil War south. It wasn’t until the 1960’s that they switched from rabid racism against the blacks to being the party that supposedly represents the interests of the blacks. (And before Willy logs onto the site again, here is a message to that troll: Look it is up, Willy, for it is a historical fact.
A “Democrat” who would in no way, shape, or form align themselves with anything the modern Democrats preach. Factually, you are correct. Functionally, the confederate flag has been appropriated by racist southerners (who are 99% made up of non-democrats) since about 1866.
Since 1866 99% Non-Democrats in the south? You misspoke, right, or did I read it incorrectly? That is heck of a huge historical revision if I read it correctly.
Remember guys, anything that precedes “Just sayin'” can be safely dismissed as drivel. That’s the whole reason for the phrase.
“anything that precedes “Just sayin’” can be safely dismissed as drivel.”
I find that to be drivel as I don’t know what precedes all those statements.
Just sayin
I view “just saying” as an incidental comment that the person knows will likely be dismissed anyway because of the other people’s close mindedness. Seems to apply here.
“Remember guys, anything that precedes “Just sayin’” can be safely dismissed as drivel.”
Yeah, but MY drivel don’t stink! Just sayin’ . . .
i would also like to point out that the major metroplexes, chicago, NYC, and LA all have very strict gun control without any significant reduction in violence, much less gun violence. there are no simple solutions to very complex socio-economic problems.
You say that is if you believe they actually want to do something about violence.
Gun control isn’t about guns. It’s about control.
The post clinton AWB showed the same non affect. Makes you wonder if the release of violent illegals is an effort to affect the down trend in violent crime upward.
Well, someone has to take up the slack. With declining violent crime rates American criminals have to work much harder and put in more hours to make up the difference in crime. Why, I dare say we have some of the most productive criminals in the world! If we didn’t have our revolving door criminal justice system designed to mentor and train then release violent criminals we would have hardly any crime at all in this country. Then where would the progressive agenda be?
Come to think of it (for the benefit of the SSRI troll above), I wonder how many of the perpetrators in Black-on-Black crime were taking SSRIs.
What might be more interesting would be to look at depressed people. How many:
– on SSRIs commit suicide or murder?
– on SSRIs do NOT commit suicide or murder?
– not on SSRIs commit suicide or murder?
– not on SSRIs do NOT commit suicide or murder?
Given the number of people on SSRIs, if there were a causality based on SSRIs the number of suicides and murders would be much larger than it is.
I have done zero research on the subject, so what follows is conjecture.
IF there is a small, but non-negligible, increase in the rate of violence among SSRI users compared to the population at large, then there could be a causal relationship.
However, just like banning or registering guns (or gun owners) violates the rights of those people (us) to protect people from a very rare danger, banning these people from getting medicines that help the vast majority of them lead a much more fulfilling life would be wrong.
go golfing already…
Inb4gunreform
On another note, what’s the chance he references his pen and phone again?
It is within our power to end mass shootings? Yes, it is: end Gun Free Zones.
Don’t be naive, Chip. You are better than that. You don’t want to be the guy making that argument when the next mass-shooting in a non-gun free zone happens. The ugly truth is that the best we can do if give everyone the chance to defend themselves and others when, not if, another psychopath decides to take lives.
Ending mas shootings is noble, and feels good. Those aren’t the cards PoTG we play with.
I would agree except I can’t think of any mass shootings that DIDN’T happen in a gun free zone.
Mass shootings only happen in Gun Free Zones. Fullstop.
One, perps avoid places where would-be victims might be armed, or where they might meet other armed resistance.
Two a would-be mass shooting where would-be victims are armed turn quickly into dead perps with low death counts. See: church shootings (perp killed by security guard – KC, IIRC?), mall shootings (perp offed himself when armed patron shot back – Portland?), even school shootings where an armed RSO ended the threat (WA state, IIRC).
Mass shootings are “mass” because of a lack of armed resistance.
November 5, 2009,
Nidal Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, went on a shooting rampage that killed 13 people and left many more wounded. He was convicted in 2013 of 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.
This happened at Fort Hood, Texas, a military base. I’m guessing there might just be one or two guns there…
Military bases are gun-free zones. Soldiers are disarmed on base. Thanks for playing.
@Niko in the armory or on MPs maybe. The topic has been covered here plenty, military bases are very restrictive on carrying of weapons.
Niko, I have more freedom to carry than any soldier on a military base. This is an old, well worn topic.
There is no concealed carry on bases, and of course no open carry. Guns must be in a locked container when entering base and unloaded. Any guns kept on post must be registered with the PMO. Any guns brought on base for any lawful activity must be registered. If you live in the barracks your guns must be stored in the unit arms room. The same goes for bringing a gun on base for lunch time target shooting. Yes, some people have time to do that. If you are caught in base with a non registered firearm you can be punished which can and many times include being chaptered out of the military. If you have adminstrative errors on your registration forms and if they are checked while entering base, you can also be punished. So military bases have a lot of the laws anti gun people wish were all over the country. Wit all of the rules and regulations, we still have had multiple double digit mass killings on bases in the past few years.
@chip
Clackamas Town Center, perp wasnt even shot at. An off duty security guard who ignored the malls no guns signs drew down but didnt shoot because he didnt have the right angle. Double win for the good guys, which is why the story died down pretty quick, even in the local media.
Chip is 100 percent correct. The other travesty in this mess is not one person had the means to defend themselves. You have that right in this country, those who chose not to protect themselves….well what can I say? My God, he must look down on the world and think about how stupid the human race has become. Mass murder, rape, robbing piliging and plundering has been going on since the beginning of time, and will NEVER end….you can wish for a happy place where everyone loves each other and unicorns dance to happy music all you want, but in reality, it doesn’t exist. Not blaming the victims for the travisty, but I do blame them for the outcome.
Under SC law that was NOT a gun free zone. The only thing that would have stopped the shooter is either his being unable to obtain a firearm, or one or more of his victims having been armed.
We don’t know if the church was a gun free zone or not. In SC, it is up to the discretion of the church.
Also, this guy had past criminal convictions, including illegal substances, so he may have been a prohibited person anyway.
Not obtaining a gun would not have stopped him. He merely would have switched from being a shooter to being an arsonist or bomber.
… or swordsman or truck driver or …
Can you cite evidence that the pastor gave explicit permission for those present to be armed inside the church? Otherwise: yes, it was, in fact, a gun-free zone under SC statute.
In SC, houses of worship are gun free zones if you don’t have express permission from the leadership.
In which they needed the approval of the church, just aso I have with my pastor. At our church you might get one or two of us before you get dropped.
I have heard the pastor (also Senator) Clementa Pinckney was pro gun control. If that’s the case, odds are good that church was a gun free zone.
Like clockwork.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but when we already know how some federal
agentsassholes work real hard to try and get someone who wouldn’t have committed an act of terrorism to go and attempt it anyway so they can arrest them, is it too much of a stretch to think that a fed could find an unstable person and convince them to do something like this?Yes, we should all be gladio that all of these gun free zones exist. It definitely reduces the tension. It’s almost like it’s some sort of strategy at work. /s
Remember the days when the leader of our country didn’t openly lament how we weren’t more similar to the European tyrannies this country was founded to flee from?
Also, it is in my power to do something about mass shootings. I carry.
He’s not the leader of our country. He’s the leader of the government.
They are two very distinct entities.
Next ammo hoarding phase in 3…2…
Ammo and mags ordered already.
Yep, just ordered a few cases, just in case.
Which is why we’ll have a shortage. barry will do nothing more substantial than passing gas. If there’s a panic and shortage after this we’ll have no one to blame but ourselves.
They’ve already caught the SOB, and I stocked up last month.
Two things to celebrate.
Hang on, SC is a death penalty state.
Three things to celebrate!
Bye bye 9 and 45. I will enjoy shooting 40 though 😀
Next? The last one hasn’t ended yet.
Fact I’m not buying anymore gun food than I normally would.
Curious to know exactly how it is in our power to do something about it.
Make gun ownership 100% fully illegal with a automatic capital offense, no appeal, execution to happen in 15 minutes….and there will still be mass shootings, It’ll just be the government doing most of them in this case.
“…once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun.”
Uh, what would you rather they have gotten their hands on?
How about we consider instead, “…once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble finding defenseless victims.”
I like how thirty seconds later, he referenced the church bombing from MLK’s era, which pretty much undercut his entire stupid argument. If people want to kill, they will. This psycho could have used a chain, a can of gas, and a match and would have killed everyone.
Or a pressure cooker, gun powder from fireworks, and remote timer/detonator (I don’t know how that bomb was configured, nor care). Or a van and fertilizer. Or etc., etc.
All he has to do is tell me his proposals and exactly how they would have prevented what happened from happening and I’ll consider them.
As of this moment all he and the other grabbers can do is lay out broad sweeping pointless policies that punish all of us and do nothing to prevent any shooting so why should I bother entertaining empty ideas from hysterical zealots?
Wow. Just wow.
Mr President, do you understand those are coffins you are standing on? I know you aren’t one to shy away from the camera, but those aren’t soap-boxes from which to preach your message.
It is in our power:
VOTE OUT DEMOCRATS!
lol…voting.
Spooner had one for comments like his.
“A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”
Obummer wouldnt even be commenting on this if the shooter chose fire as his weapon of choice instead. And last I checked, arson is also illegal.
As are fertilizer bombs packed into trucks parked in front of federal courthouses. Or maybe we should ban air travel too, since a plane full of avgas is legal but deadly when it crashes into a skyscraper.
How many on the list were immigrants? Bet at least 80%.
The list I heard from the coroner sounded like the answer to your stupid question is zero.
Think he meant the foreign country murderers, not the church victims.
Correct…I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it come to communicating.
No Doe, of the list of mass murders in the article, how many were by immigrants that came into that country?
Apologies for the mis-intent of your question. I should have clarified before bringing down the hammer but the board is filled with trolls today.
The President doesn’t have the good sense to remain quiet when he would best only covey condolence. His focus on the firearm displays his weakness of character, the using of a loss of life of good people to further his anti-Constitutional agendas. People of wisdom and who are Leaders hold opinion back and spread calm. It was not a race or firearm issue yet this is what is being reported by the progressive/liberal bases. It was an ill human who murdered others. Why seems to be the million dollar question no one can resolve. I’m sorry to say this is human nature, there will always be a percentage who have bad internal wiring.
Cue the Hillary sound bite…
…because guns.
Don’t look in those other closets.
I know it’s not a popular sentiment on this site but I include this link in most of my posts…time to join NRA. Like it or not they will be the ones out in front of this (As they were with Sandy Hook). http://www.nra.org/ruger offers some discounts (got it with my last Ruger). Doesn’t hurt to join your state org or any others that will help if you can swing it.
With that out of the way..thanks to TTAG for pointing out the examples from other “civilized” countries. A little fact checking never hurts Mr. President….
Yep. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, thats how think of the NRA.
Facts mean nothing to his agenda, so why would he bother with fact checking?
Push the narrative, reality be damned!
So, interesting…
The population of the US is approximately 58 times larger than Finland. Finland has had three mass shootings resulting in 21 deaths since 2007. Their gun laws are not the worst in Europe, but they are far stricter than here, and guns cannot be carried or used for defense.
So, adjusting the numbers, the US would have to have had 174 mass shootings resulting in 1,218 deaths since 2007 to even match Finland’s gun violence rate.
Idiots do this crap all the time. We’re a big nation with a large population, you can’t say that because something happens here with certain frequency, it’s therefore happening “more.” That’d be like me having a flowerpot with a dandelion in it, then looking outside at 50 acres of grassland and lamenting that it has more weeds.
This. Right. Here.
The anti-gunners’ extreme fraudulent misrepresentation of pretty much everything knows no shame.
Well said.
Mentally unstable white guy walks into a black church and kills nine black people….how is that a nations’ problem?
The problem is this nation has systematically removed lawful self protection from its citizens. It’s unconscionable that our nations’ leadership removes the only cost effective means citizens can protect themselves.
It’s not. Nearly as many people died from a balcony collapsing in CA the other day.
But, it’s a political springboard for soulless tyrants and race baiters to push their agenda.
Ban rotting patio beam supports!
Hold on for a moment we I clutch my pearls . . . .
OK, now:
– ‘Oh, the balconies!
– The balconies!!!
– When will our politicians do something to rid us of our balconies?’
As an architect who has to deal with building code issues on the reg, I can assure you the government is already doing as much as it can to over-regulate balconies and just about anything else you can inhabit.
Politician waving bloody flag……check…….politician creating facts or stats……..check. anti 2A politician using crocodile tears to further an agenda….check.
Same-o, same-o.
Gun Nut Fervor meets Ant-farm freedom-hating collectivists.
I already provided that list on Huffpo.
Here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/barack-obama-charleston-shooting_n_7613074.html
Got gangland beaten in the comments section – and my post was taken down. Its gone. They actually removed it. Surprised?
You can always tell who’s wrong in a debate. It’s the side that fears the truth and has to suppress it. Any surprise TTAG leaves all comments up while CNN and antigun sites rabidly censor any opposition?
Though, good on you for braving HuffPo. Must’ve been like wandering into the red assed baboon cage at a zoo. Lots of creatures who seem vaguely humanoid, but are only intelligent enough to screech and fling their feces.
Didn’t you know? Inconvenient facts that don’t support The Narrative are inherently racist.
I do wonder, however, if this shooter passed a background check. His father gave him a .45 (which was probably the weapon used), and many states do not require BGCs for intrafamilial transfers. If not, that I wold surmise that there will be a renewed push for universal checks on all transactions.
Which reminds me of a thought I was having the other day. In many road stops, the police will ask to search the vehicle. If the driver demurs, many of an officer has been reported to say, “Well, if you have nothing to hide, why do you mind if I search?” Many rivers do not have a pat response, and many even succumb to the pressure (or threats). The answer should be, “because I am a law-abiding citizen who has nothing to hide, I have the Constitutional right to say “no.”
“If you have no probable cause, why do you feel the need to search?”
I suspect the father may end up in an adjoining cell. Correct me if I am wrong, but regardless if a gun is passed via a family member or an FFL, it is illegal to pass a gun to someone who is forbidden because of drug use, a pending criminal indictment, or a convicted felon. I could be wrong, though.
You could be, Bob, but you’re not. Knowingly providing a firearm to a prohibited person is a crime. And there’s no way this person’s father didn’t know he’d been arrested on felony drug charges. Even money says it’s the family that put up his bail money.
Bet the father isn’t prosecuted for it, though.
Bob108,
It all depends on the charges for his illegal narcotics activity. If the charges were a misdemeanor (like possession of one marijuana joint), he very well could have served his time (say, 5 days in jail) and was released free-and-clear. If that is the case, I do not believe federal law would prohibit him from owning a firearm.
First, is it me, or did that read like a speech that took days to prepare? I wonder how long Obama waited to read that speech from the teleprompter. Is this going to be Obama “Reichstag Fire” moment? Will he issue an “Emergency Decree” like Hitler.
Second, am I the only one who never thought I would consider a US President a domestic enemy?
Third, these are becoming scary times.
Every president has professional speechwriters whose specialty it is to write up lies that deliver an agenda. I’d really be hard pressed to think of a more villainous job, personally. The guy had all night and morning to do this, and really, it’s nothing more than more of the same. I would never put it past a leftist President to pull a Reichstag Fire, but this seems like a weak case to rest it on. Too few casualties, short and boring speech, only one perpetrator instead of a group.
And I doubt you’re alone on 2. Even the Founding Fathers knew a President could be an enemy to America, which is why they wrote the Second Amendment. And why tyrannical politicians hate it so much.
I’d say that that is why they wrote most of the Constitution in the way they did; executive power was meant to be extremely limited so that the position could not be used as seat for a tyrant. Similarly, legislative authority was limited, and set at odds with itself, so that it could not be used to form a tyrannical oligarchy. The judicial branch was always supposed to be extremely limited, for the same purpose.
We’re not there yet. If he doesn’t get the executive powers like the TPP or ITAR through and the power to federalize all local police departments like they have in Mexico, then you may see it.
He’s got plenty of time to do it the easy way first.
Dan, you forgot to mention the college students that were gunned down in Mexico by the police a while back. Oh wait, maybe that is not really a civilized country and does not count.
Just to give credit where credit is due, what I posted is based almost whole-cloth on something the John Lott posted in an article here:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/06/10/john-lott-america-gun-ban-murders-multiple-victim-public-shootings-europe.html
Unseemly haste to make political capital from people murdered in a church.
He knows he has to move fast. The window of opportunity gets narrower with each shooting event. For once I’d like to see the People rise up and reject the idea of GFZ’s in the immediate aftermath of one of these shootings and choose to take responsibility for their own defense.
The more and more I hear this Colgate-smiled charlatan and other members of the government speak, the more I just want to go all Rage Against the Machine – F*** YOU! I won’t do what you tell me!
Forgot these recent notable international mass murders:
February 18, 2003, a mass murder that attack occurred at the Jungangno Station of the Daegu Metropolitan Subway in Daegu, South Korea. It resulted in 192 deaths and 151 injuries. The attacker set fire to a train using 2 milk cartons of flammable liquid and a lighter.
June 5, 2009, a mass murder–suicide attack occurred on a bus in Chengdu, Sichuan, China. It resulted in 27 deaths, and 76 injuries. The attacker used a milk carton full of flammable liquid and a lighter.
June 7 2013, a mass murder-suicide attack occurred on a bus in Xiamen, Fujian province, China. It resulted in 47 people deaths and 34 injuries. The attacker used a carton or bottle of gasoline and a lighter.
February 3 2015, a mass murder attack on a bus occurred in Bangladesh, India. It resulted in 7 deaths and 16 injuries. The attacker set fire to the bus using a bottle of gasoline.
Yeah, but no one was shot. Don’t you know that being killed by guns somehow constitutes a far greater crime than being killed by more painful, devastating means?
People can be poisoned, drowned, stabbed, blown up, and set on fire all day and subhumans like MDA won’t bat an eye. Why? Because it’s not about saving lives. It’s about controlling the idea of freedom.
But these international mass murders and murder-suicides have much higher death tolls than mass shootings, and were each committed with about $5.00 worth of unsophisticated and commonly-available unregulated items.
This represents a lot more death per unit effort and death per unit cost than a shooting mass murder. A person with a lawfully carried handgun at least has a chance of stopping a mass shooter, but they won’t be able to stop a fire. Therefore these kinds of attacks are MUCH scarier than crazy person with a gun in my opinion.
My first part was sarcasm. I agree, it’s ridiculous. The problem is that people have been conditioned to let their governmental betters have total control over them, which means taking away their means for self protection. They see guns as equal to bombs and such, rather than tools for self defense.
I’d liken them to peasants, but even peasants historically rose up against oppressors. Antis are lower than peasants, they’re slaves who clap the chains on themselves.
And how about the 2015 Charlie Hebdo massacre in France (12 dead) and the 2013 Westgate Shopping Mall massacre in Kenya (67 dead) as well as the 2011 A. B. massacre in Norway (77 dead). All three countries have “strict gun control” which did nothing to stop their most recent spree killers.
When the president starts talking like this it’s usually a good time to get some stock in the gun companies.
As it has been said many times, Bama baby is the best gun salesman ever!
But did he have to do it right before I planned to make a big ammo purchase. Argh! It is so rude.
“We must do something about mass murder”, says unrepentant mass murderer.
As tragic as this event was, why do politicians use body count as the measure of tragedy? What if someone walked into a church with a metal bat and bludgeoned 4 people before being stopped? Less of a bad thing? How about the nut who walked into a business in Oklahoma and beheaded one woman, tried to behead a second…with a big kitchen knife…less tragic?
Wait…I know…never let a crisis go to waste. This ‘president’ has his agenda and will exploit whatever he can to further it. What a piece of crap.
The behavior of this President is DESPICABLE and beyond contempt to politicize the issue in a time of tragedy. We now have one more to pray for now.
Despicable. Get used to that word if you’re going to really examine the antigun side and leftist politicians as a whole. They’re cut from the same cloth as ISIS fanatics and, if given the means and opportunity, would follow the same path.
No kidding. Just take a look at the postings of the gun grabbing trolls on this site, like “God”, Willy Lunchmeat, VivaLaSatire.
I think I just figured out what may save Colt… Lame Duck gun control talk…
And it’s in Obama’s power and best interests to do all he can to stoke a race war to stay in office beyond January of 2017.
So far he’s doing a great job.
Here is a fact. Not a damn thing is going to change. It will be politicized and mixed like bread dough by the media, Obama will say this and that and make wholly meaningless comments about it and NOTHING will change, as it shouldn’t. In our society, these things are going to occur occasionally. Remember, the USA population is around 319 million. The firearm deaths thrust into the light account for a very VERY small percentage of deaths. Keep in mind that preventable medical errors persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year.
I can hardly get my pink polka dot panties in a knot over a shooting here and there. The Sandy Hook shooting, yeah that was a shocker for sure.
Here in Spokane, we have that Rachel Dolezal
issue going on. I never heard of her before and suddenly, thanks to the media, she is national news.
SO WHAT!
Here we go again.
How long is it going to take before the American body politic begins to understand that GUN FREE ZONES ATTRACT SPREE KILLERS!!!! This idiot kid, like all the other deranged spree killers, specifically picked that church because he knew there was a very good change nobody would be armed. In fact, churches in S. Carolina, are—wait for it—Gun Free Zones! It’s against state law to carry a gun into a church . . . unless you’re a spree killer in which case it doesn’t matter. And so what happens? Gun-controllers demand even more gun-free zones. If just one person had decided to come to church armed . . . End of rant.
Ed: Comment deleted, will run as a separate post.
+1 and ‘thumbs up’ and slow clap…well said.
…that response was for the original post which has been removed.
Once again a mass killing by a murderous demented coward in a gun free zone and the Radical Progressive Liberal in Chief wasted no time in seizing the opportunity to use this tragedy as an excuse to advance the anti 2nd amendment cause of the left. Obama didn’t flinch as he asserted the ridiculous liberal talking point that the U.S. is the only country where mass killings with guns occur with “any frequency”, an outright lie that conveniently ignores the daily carnage in countries like Nigeria where Islamic Extremists use firearms to slaughter an unarmed populace with impunity and have for years.
Since the Obama administration has not already leaked information that a high capacity magazine was used, it’s safe to assume that the 45 pistol used by the killer was not high capacity. News reports indicate the murderous coward engaged the victims from close range and reloaded at least 5 times times.
Based on no mention of high capacity mags and number of reloads it’s seems obvious that a 1911 or some other single stack 45 was likely used, which proves what those with even the most basic knowledge of firearms already knew; the only thing that high capacity magazine bans change in mass shootings is the number of reloads.
If there had been anyone other than the killer in that church armed with a handgun and proficient enough to engage an assailant at close range, at least there would have been a chance to stop the killer well before he was able reload 5 times.
The gun haters of course will respond with renewed knee jerk rants demanding gun control legislation, but since this rampage did not involve so called assault weapons or high capacity handguns, the liberal demands this time must necessarily be expanded to call for a ban of all handguns.
Based on no mention of high capacity mags and number of reloads it’s seems obvious that a 1911 or some other single stack 45 was likely used, The woman who was spared stated that the nut reloaded several times.
Hello Tom, you can easily avoid dumbass replies if you actually read a post you’re responding to, so I’ll repeat this line from my previous post that you obviously missed: “News reports indicate the murderous coward engaged the victims from close range and reloaded at least 5 times times”.
If you bother to read this far Tom I’ll elaborate further and a little s l o w e r in attempt to accommodate your capacity for comprehension:
1. There was no mention by main stream media that the 45 was high capacity. (Pay attention now Tom)
2. The killer reloaded at least five times. (Still with me Tom, come on, you can do it)
Put 1. and 2. together Tom, that’s what should make it obvious to even you that the murderous coward likely used a 1911 or some other single stack 45 (That means low capacity magazine Tom).
What do guns have to do with mass shootings? The gun didn’t do a single thing, it was the idiot using it! So if we ban guns then I’m guessing all thugs will turn their guns in also? Let’s see, the US can’t stop illegal drugs so how will they stop illegal weapons? They can’t and only the thugs will have them! How safe would you feel then?
Oh yeah, I forgot….”shut the f…up Obama, you lying good for nothing commie bastard”. OK…I feel better…..
Keep your powder dry. What can be tried -will be tried…
So what about the Charlie Hebdo shootings in France and the Belgian attacks?
+++OP
Port Arthur Australia – 2 day shooting spree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
What about the untold thousands (perhaps millions) murdered in the name of Jihad lately that went quietly????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
STUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPIDSTUPID
Remember the old jokes?
Q. How can you tell when a politician is lying
A. Because his lips are moving.
If con is the opposite of pro, then what is the opposite of progress?
I think our prez is only tired of taking time away from the golf course.
Quick analysis of the European statistics provided, (plus Charlie Hebdo attacks) VS America. From 2000 to 2015 there were 268 public mass shooting fatalities in America for a population of 310,000,000 (based on what I could find in a few new “lists” of such events) VS 225 in the nations mentioned in the list above.
Or .005 fatalities per hundred thousand population for America and .008 per hundred thousand for the nations listed. In other words, those “civilized” European nations (England, Italy, Germany, Finland, Norway, Switzerland and The Netherlands) have a higher risk of you being killed in a mass shooting than you do in America. (Mass shooting defined as four or more victims unknown to the shooter.)
This is a very rough back of the napkin analysis, but it shows the trope about “only in America” is typical Obama BS.
Same old song and dance. Political and news media ghouls.
We just knew that both Obama and Hlllary would come out with the wrong message on this latest tragic mass shooting “THERE ARE TOO MANY GUNS”! The fact is there ate to few guns in the hands of responsible citizens. The majority of these mass shootings including the one on Charleston are occurring in GUN FREE ZONES including our schools, colleges, hospitals, and churches. These shooter know they can inflict mass casuslities with no interference before any help can arrive. Howsny lives could have been saved at Columbine, Sandy Hook, or in this church if good guys had been armed? A better question might be WOULD THESE TRAGIC MSSS SHOOTINGS EVEN OCCURRED IF THE SHOOTERS KNEW THERE MIGHT BE ARMED CIVILIANS PRESENT?????
Obama will bemoan all day long about American citizens owning guns and the threat (he feels) they pose but he won’t lift a finger or shed a tear for the millions who continue to be slaughtered by abortion. OBAMA IS FULL OF BLOOD LUST!
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