I truly do not understand how so many members of my tribe – that is to say, Jewish folk – can say and mean “Never Again,” and simultaneously push for civilian disarmament. I can’t comprehend how one reconciles that phrase with “only the government should have guns.”
The same goes for African Americans, the LGBT community, and other minorities who have been or are persecuted, abused, and even extinguished, yet vote D and detest the idea of firearms for personal protection. Apparently Mormons are the rare religious group that seems to “get” how important private firearms ownership is.
That said, I’ve seen a lot of antisemitism since Newtown. Possibly more than I have experienced at any time prior. Yeah, Feinstein, Bloomberg and some other prominent antis are Jewish. At least by birth; I have no idea if they’re observant or if they’re atheists, like myself, who sometimes still claim their heritage. I’m way off topic, but here’s the takeaway: Jews aren’t anti-gun any more than gun owners are all old, fat, white rednecks. Sometimes it’s true, sometimes it isn’t, but I could sure go for less hate and fewer hoisted pitchforks.
So… what was this supposed to be about? Oh! My TAVOR may be Israeli at heart, and it’s pretty badass, but it’s nowhere near as Jewish as my Tanfoglio MOSSAD. If Jews are anti-gun, this thing wouldn’t exist. BOOM. Put that in your menorah and smoke it.
The history on this pistol is pretty thin. I was never really able to lock anything down, unfortunately, and reports are varied. Apparently, before Israel was producing its own pistols (before IMI), it contracted with Tanfoglio, manufacturers of high quality CZ clones. In fact, IMI’s first Jericho pistol was built mostly using parts made by Tanfoglio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k2SFPtXz6E
That’s the solid history. Now, the Israeli Mossad is akin to the CIA…intelligence gathering, including legit spies, and trying to deny that they do “wet work.” Many people claim that this series of Tanfoglio-manufactured “MOSSAD” pistols was issued to Mossad agents for their personal, daily protection use.
Let’s be clear: these pistols were NOT used on “missions” of any sort (though some owners like to claim otherwise). This seems pretty obvious, as that would be about as likely as CIA agents carrying guns with “CIA” stamped on them. However, some people say these guns really had nothing to do with the Mossad at all, and that they were issued to police and available for purchase by civilians.
So that’s the shaky history of what/who these specific guns were actually for. Maybe it was both Mossad and police, and then later sold to the public as surplus. Certainly some were imported into the U.S. as surplus, and one eventually found its way to me.
Some of these pistols have this “Israel Shooting Association” crest on them. I think this almost certainly proves civilian ownership at some point. Maybe the Israel Shooting Association purchased them surplus from the Mossad/police? Again, I just don’t know.
If you’re familiar with the CZ 75, you’ll be familiar with this pistol. It has a firing pin block like a CZ 75B, and 75B magazines fit and function flawlessly in it. There is a minor difference in the mag release setup, which actually involves the trigger bar a bit, but the rest of the parts look basically identical.
I can completely detail strip this gun and detail strip my CZ 75 SP-01, and not notice a real difference in any of the other parts, pieces, or process. Yet almost none of the parts can be swapped between the two guns. Most of them are different in such small ways that it isn’t noticeable unless you’re holding one sear cage right next to the other, for example, or you try to swap them.
For the record, this applies to most of the current CZ clones as well: Tanfoglio/EAA, Sphinx, Jericho/Baby Eagle, Sarsilmaz, Canik, BUL, etc. …and past clones, including guns from Colt, Springfield, and Jeff Cooper’s own Bren Ten.
As a huge CZ fan, this pistol has a well-deserved place in my safe. I just wish I knew a little more about where it really came from… if for no other reason than this.
Maybe the next time you run across a “The assault weapons ban is a Jewish conspiracy!” comment online somewhere, you can point them here. Maybe if you’re the type to write those things (and I’m guessing, if that’s the case, that you got linked here by a regular TTAG’er, because this community tends to be pretty darn accepting), you will heed a spot of advice: relying too heavily on stereotypes could be, you know, dangerous.
[This post was originally published here in 2013.]
What?
I’ve got an EAA Witness in 10mm that I truly enjoy. It’s basically a re-badged Tanfoglio. It’s a really great gun. Just avoid that ‘wonder finish’ since models with it seems to develop frame cracks over time.
And yeah… the whole ‘the jews’ thing that some weird-os REE about online has never made sense to me. Seems to me mostly it’s people that are not even jewish themselves using them as pawns in their own political games. Them being either the ultimate villain or ultimate victim depending on who you’re asking.
Ironic considering how much Marx hated Jews. To him a Jew and a bourgeois capitalist were one and the same in his writings.
Says a lot about how much they suffered under the Czar to throw their lot in with the Bolsheviks.
You may want to brush up on your histories of Socialist revolution in Europe. The movement was made up of almost entirely Jewish intellectual types. Rosa Luxemburg, Leon Trotsky and Karl Marx himself were all Jewish. The philosophical roots of Communism are in the pseudo intellectual platitudes and agendas of these folks. Stalin’s polices toward Jews aside, Communism’s philosophical origins are not a mystery to a student of history. Mossad is basically a state sponsored terrorist organization hit squad. Read about the various false flags they have been involved in over the years. I don’t understand the shilling for and weird fetishization of Israel people seem to have in the US. They are little better than their neighbors in reality. Read on the attack of the USS Liberty. We need to end ALL foreign aid! The US regularly gives money to shite hole countries that end up using the money against us. Billions of taxpayer dollars given to third world dumps…but we the people get $600 bucks. Can’t even get a basic courtesy reach around during the dry anal raping our wonderful elected officials are bestowing upon us. It’s all for middle east peace though, we wouldn’t want Jared Kushner to not be able to pay out all those bribes he promised the camel jockeys in exchange for treaties with Israel.
Can’t say I’d disagree about seriously re-evaluating U.S. foreign aid. The rest is just an anti-Semitic rant. After all, to many peoples’ petty, vindictive, jealous mindsets Jews make up all the successful capitalists as well. Need more than whatever light-weight brush up in history you’ve had to simply put any of Stalin’s policies aside. And that’s just a start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxuRiIbyzEY
Very well said……
AND NOT AN ANTI SEMITIC RANT….
If Jews weren’t being outright killed in the Czar’s periodic pogroms, in mainland Europe until the late 19th Century Jews were subjected to laws that could restrict their occupations and even where they lived. It is why Jews were prominent in banking, medicine, science, and arts. This could explain why they would pick up on a political ideology that promoted supposed equality.
Very nicely stated Blue.
I’ve always stated that jews tend to be their own worst enemy.
Pretty strange in all honesty. Until the zionist thing happened in 1897, jews werent getting too much heat. In Germany, they had been enjoying a quite long respite from issues. The elites werent interested.
We should have listened to Washington and not gotten into foreign entanglements.
ww1 would have been done and dusted with the German “victory” and a return to old borders. No need for a WW2. No Balfour Document. Maybe a more stable mideast now?
Bankers werent interested in that Peace isnt profitable.
The elite at the top have no interest in folks getting along.
Theyre insane.
Take your Jew-hatred and shove it up your ass, Mr. “Blue Lightning”.
“… any more than gun owners are all old, fat, white rednecks.”
Hey! I’m not fat! 🙂
Called “covid kilos”.
“That said, I’ve seen a lot of antisemitism since Newtown. Possibly more than I have experienced at any time prior. Yeah, Feinstein, Bloomberg and some other prominent antis are Jewish. At least by birth; I have no idea if they’re observant or if they’re atheists.
The mental disease of Leftardism over rides the ability to accept fact,reason and truth.
That said there’s no reason not to enjoy a good CZ 75,no matter what name it goes by.
Huh? Does Newtown have something to do with antisemitism? I don’t seem to recall any relation.
Am I tripping balls or was an article posted earlier today about a prosecutor not charging people for illegal gun possession and now the article is gone?
I vaugely remember it…you ain’t tripping. Cool gun…hey Jeremy(from 2013) how can any Jew be an “athiest”?!? The very existence of Jews proves a GOD who supernaturally kept them from being exterminated for 2500 years(Hitler&pograms notwithstanding).Let alone the State of Israel. Can you blame any 2A supporter for being prejudiced? I’m not and support the State of Israel and the Greatest Jew who ever lived-JESUS CHRIST!
You got some video to back up any of those claims? A Jew can be an atheist if he is not blind and opens his eyes. Also, being a Jew may be a race or may be by choice, if it is your racial heritage you might just as well be a mormon or a catholic, your religion is burned into you when you are too young to refuse it, you are not born with it.
Steers, queers…and damned fools
“Am I tripping balls or was an article posted earlier today about a prosecutor not charging people for illegal gun possession and now the article is gone?“
A couple articles have disappeared recently, probably thanks to insurance adjusters and/or lawyers.
‘A couple articles have disappeared recently, probably thanks to insurance adjusters and/or lawyers.”
Well those are pretty stringent lawyers seeing how one of the stories to disappear was “Happy New Year from TTAG” Another was the “Top 5 TTAG stories of 2020.”
What may have happened, because this site was not displaying correctly, was likely because of the bugs in the “New TTAG” they want to put through.
Also
Happy New Year people!
The articles I had in mind involved thorny legal and/or political issues, and were the only ones I noticed at that time to be gone because I was following them. However, you are correct that others are gone also. Who knows? Maybe Dan will explain.
I am Jewish and it has been my experience that the average American Jew who is a reformed Jew and doesn’t really practice Judaism are the ones who are anti-gun.
As you go towards more religiously practicing Jews like the conservatives and the orthodox, you find majorities who are Republican and believe in the Second Amendment.
To all my Jewish brothers and sisters, even the secular ones, you should own a rifle and a pistol, know how do use it, and keep them in your house.
When Kamala Harris becomes president, and the Democrats have the house and senate, Americas’ Jews may indeed need these arms for self-defense.
” the average American Jew”….” reformed Jew” ….”doesn’t practice Judaism (Jew)” …”the secular ones (Jew)” that is an awful lot of dancing Doc until you finally truly describe them….”are the ones who are anti-gun”
“…you should own a rifle and a pistol” Does Tribalism trump all Doc? Notice you didn’t tell them to cease voting for the very people who they are going to “need these arms for self-defense.(from)”.
Your advice was akin to telling cancer to arm up.
“Your advice was akin to telling cancer to arm up.“
Samuel, that is not how to win hearts and minds to the pro-gun side.
It’s our job to persuade, not bully new converts into the fold. There are many good people who have honest reasons to be reluctant to advocate for private firearms ownership.
And frankly, many Jews are high achievers who studied hard, worked hard and achieved good positions within the community and they would make excellent allies in our efforts to preserve our rights.
And I mean really, ‘Samuel’ is calling liberal Jews a cancer? Oy vey!
These have been on my radar for a year or so, out at the edge. I feel prompted to give them a bit more attention now, have to watch for them on the auction sites.
Thinking about it, and also with no offense intended, I have to echo fww’s comment on atheistic Jews. God is such a large part of Jewish/Israeli history, that for one with a Jewish heritage to reject the existence of that God seems antithetical. I get nationalism & secularism & other ‘isms, but the phrase “atheistic Jew” just seems like a non sequitur. Pfft, not as if I got life all figured out though…
I don’t know a lot of Jewish people however all the Jews I know are liberal democrats. I have no idea if they themselves own guns or not.
This article kinda explains why Tanfaglio and IMI went on to develop the Jericho/Baby Eagle line. Introduce a pistol already developed and sell it on the police/paramilitary/civilian market. I know that the barrel was done to Israeli specs and everything was sourced from TZ. I do have a first gen Baby Eagle and a supposed police surplus CZ75 pre-b from the Israeli police stock.
CZ75 platform has been my favorite for 20+ years. Durable, customizable, accurate as hell and….just cool. In a world of strikers and plastic the 75 stands out.
So, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to ask- is one’s choice of religion predicated on one’s DNA, or is it geography, ethnicity, culture, family, education, indoctrination, free will… what exactly constitutes an individual’s personal mythology?
It would seem rather unreasonable to suggest that Indians are Hindus, Asians are Buddhists, Africans are Polytheists, Middle Easterners are Islamic, Israelis are Jewish, Europeans are Christian, and so on, and so on.
Would it not be more reasonable to simply accept an individual’s statement of personal conviction rather than intimate that somehow a religion can be ascribed to someone against their will?
It does seem reasonable, however, to suggest that everyone should be interested in having the ability to defend themselves in the manner of their own choosing.
Just sayin’.
Religion is mostly a case of family/cultural indoctrination during youth.
Personally, I think some of the religious fables and cautionary tales border on child abuse.
I’ve seen the psychological trauma caused to young children when their zealot parents attempt to convince them that their playmates are going to burn in hell for eternity, for no other crime than being born.
“It does seem reasonable, however, to suggest that everyone should be interested in having the ability to defend themselves in the manner of their own choosing.”
True – but many people prefer to outsource self-defense to government employees. Such people also tend to want to force said choice on everyone else. Thus gun control…
And all this time, I thought the phrase was “Never Again”, not “Never Forget”.
The “Mormons” reference link to a comment thread in 2013 seems a little vague to me … so I’ll take it upon myself, as a practicing member and FFL holder, to expound my subjective take. Ha!
The vast, overwhelming majority of “Mormons” (that name has a lot of silly and false connotations; LDS [Latter-Day Saints] or Church of Jesus Christ [official name since 1830] are preferred) are pro-gun and pro-2A to a fault. I live and work in the greater Salt Lake City, Utah area; there are many local gun shops, gunsmiths, and general FFLs per capita. NFA ownership is high per capita. Google it.
Our state BCI (bureau of criminal investigation) is responsible for enforcing the Brady Act (background checks at firearm point of sale). Utah specifically designed their system to meet & exceed FBI standards to avoid using federal NICS. Our internal numbers are therefore kept private, and our checks don’t factor into the published NICS numbers. Why? Maybe we just don’t quite trust the Feds here. Look up our history, and you’ll understand.
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek. We believe strongly in forgiveness, love for neighbors, and allowing anyone to worship how, where, and what they may. We also believe there’s a point where no one should be allowed to take your freedom to worship or your life.
Boomer Proof: John Moses Browning is one of us. Check out the Browning shop in Nauvoo, Illinois and the current business home in Morgan, Utah. The 1911 is the official state firearm of Utah – does your state have one?
Utah (and the majority religious group who originally settled and founded the state) loves guns! Are we perfect? Heck no. Are we well-armed? Heck yes.
“The 1911 is the official state firearm of Utah“
That is fitting, I believe John Moses Browning was a practicing Mormon.
While I greatly admire his engineering skills, I do not share his beliefs. I have studied and learned far too much about Joseph Smith to ascribe to any of those particular stories.
Cool gun. To answer your question: indoctrination. About half of American Jews don’t follow any religion. Many others are far removed from Israel, and therefore don’t identify with it either. Often (but not always!) atheists are hostile toward religion. In America, they tend to be hostile toward Christianity (why not Islam, hmm). The Left is hostile toward any group that doesn’t support them. Have you ever heard of the phrase religious right? The Left is generally hostile toward both Christianity and Israel (and guns duh). A large portion of American Jews are okay with this. The Left excels at promoting their ideology. Jews also tend to be within the highest income brackets. The wealthier among us are often far removed from feeling the need for self-defense.
Point being, Jews are often on the Left side of the political aisle.
I’m a jew and I’ve only become a gun owner recently but have been stating for year that the 2 groups of people who should be armed to the teeth are the Jews and the Blacks. How they became THE voices of disarmament is shocking to me.
I’d like to handle a piece like this but I’ve no idea what your Jewish tirade is about.
I know several and haven’t seen or heard anything outside of my views on the 2A
Getting back to the subject of the Mossad Tanfoglios, I have 2 of them, a fullsized and a compact, both in what is called the “Wonder” finish. The fullsized one is my favorite gun period. The slide to frame fit is like a $$$ 1911, and it eats anything I put through it. I have a “Combat Cohai” gun that is similar, and two Jerichos. Obviously, I like the CZ platform a lot. All of the guns except for the nearly new Jericho, are surplus, most of them brought in through the late Gary Cole.
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