“The Ohio Highway Patrol is spending more than $600,000 [ED: $645k] to replace its shotguns because the old ones are too long to fit in the front seat of the Dodge Chargers the state bought to replace Ford Crown Victoria cruisers, the law-enforcement staple that is no longer manufactured,” mydaytondailynews.com reports. “The new guns — Remington 870’s with 14-inch barrels — can be mounted upright in the front seat of a new cruiser, while the older 20-inch Remingtons would only fit in the trunk.” Hey at least they’re sticking with shotguns. “We’ve had shotguns for years,” the OHP spokesperson said. “It’s an effective weapon. It’s a reliable weapon.” Yes but—unplanned obsolescence. “Troopers also are being trained to use rifles in preparation for a statewide rollout of those weapons.” I don’t supposed anyone told the OHP they can’t sell those short-barreled shotguns into the civilian market. Your tax money hard at work.
Boy, I wish I could get a new superfluously fancy superficially macho throwback car in the middle of recession and sequestration to replace my completely functional completely adequate car that I have now, and then buy some new guns for it.
If they don’t have take home cars, then they probably need to be replaced. Fleet cars take a serious beating during regular use, I’ve had two transmission failures and assorted other problems in only a few years on.
I don’t understand why an agency that big wouldn’t have an armorer on staff who could cut and recrown those barrels and put new sights on, though.
I think I should mention that I’m decent with cars in general, everything I own is between ten and twenty years old, and I do most of the wrenching myself.
Perhaps not take-homes in the Metros, but every HP I’ve ever seen is take-home in the more rural areas.
Sounds like a lot of shotguns to cut. At that rate, the armorer ought to just open his own gunsmithing shop.
If cops were required to use their own cars like nearly everyone in the private sector does, then perhaps they wouldnt take such a beating, but since it is the tax payer who is footing the bill, who the hell cares what happens to the car.
Also its a shotgun, do you really need to recrown it? This could be done with a bandsaw.
Did you have a hot cup of stupid with your breakfast cereal this morning?
Start washing your hands after you shoot, actually you don’t need to, there’s obviously too much lead damage to fix
well ford has not only stopped making the crown vic altogether, but also in the last few years they had substantially increased the price of it, from the total bargain it had been. And those police cruisers typically clock nearly 40 thousand miles a year which aren’t easy grandma highway miles.
They aren’t easy highway miles? So the cops are constantly drag racing? I normally see them idleing in a parking lot, or in regular city traffic, not flooring it.
And making hard turns while code three, and being idled, and driving fast while responding to calls, and running far more electronics then most cars, accelerating and stopping quickly….. Etc etc etc
Erik I don’t know how the cops are where you live, but most of the time the cops where I am are sitting on the side of the road or in parking lots. Speeding to a scene seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Although they speed pretty hard when just on patrol so I guess there’s that.
Idling is part of the problem. You take a regular car that’s been driven 40,000 miles and it’ll have a certain amount of wear. Next take a police car that has been driven 40,000 miles; it’s going to have much, much more wear. Why? Because even though it only traveled 40,000 miles, it spent much more time idling. They might only be actively driving half a shift, so there’s twice as much wear on some parts as a normal car. Then when they are traveling, they are often using quick acceleration, heavy electrical usage, and sometimes spotty maintenance.
A local dealership (I am in Ohio) had some of their old crown vics for sale last summer. They are all 8-10 years old, most have well over 200,000 miles on them and some were close to or over 300,000. On top of that, they are running at idle twice as much as they are actually being driven. Needless to say, the cars are in pretty rough shape. They do need the new cars.
We can still buy off the old ones, right?
I hope so.
*checks state ccw forums*
That must be why Vance’s was advertising them a few months back…
I did. Pickup at a tricked out 870 for $270 last year.
I’m not sure what my brain was saying to my hands on that one.
*ahem* I picked up a tricked out 870 for $270 last year.
It’s a simple solution. Sell the guns surplus without the barrels. It takes 30 seconds to install a legal barrel.
The bit about the Crown Vics helps to prove a point I’ve been trying to make. Private companies can’t make enough off just government contracts to keep a product going. Citizens quit buying the Crown Vic and the line closes. Same with guns and ammo. The citizen market is too big to piss off.
Those are some expensive hacksaw blades.
Exactly. Why not save the taxpayers some coin and just buy new barrels.
Exactly what I was thinking. Why retrofit to save money when you can just buy all brand new ones.
They don’t give a rat’s ass about saving money that was stolen from the citizens. Easy come, easy go.
>> they don’t give a rats ass about saving money ….
Exactly.
Especially for an agency that has no reason to exist….
Paint that car black and it would be an ideal car for an update to a Mad Max film based in the American Heartland. How much did the fleet of new cars cost the taxpayer and are they really needed?
According to KBB, they don’t even really have better gas mileage. Pretty awful.
Gas mileage is about the same–but the Charger is safer, handles better and is a whole lot faster.
They are going to be a lot more expensive to maintain than the Crown Vic.
Worst will be the AWD Turbo Taurii, though I’ve heard sales on that model were weak.
The Vic had gotten to Toyota Corolla land- where there are so many cars out there you can get almost any part for almost free. Rotors? $25. Pads? $20. Shocks? $20 (and that’s for the expensive police interceptor stuff).
New cars are needed. The old ones are pretty rough. Several hundred thousand miles on cars that spend most of their time idling. They are slowly rolling out the new cars. Replacing the worst of the Crown Vics and assigning the new cars by seniority. Our local post has only 1 or 2 of the new cars.
Don’t issue the cops new guns. Issue them new saws. Save about $600K. For the children.
Why didn’t they just replace the barrels, or have the old ones shortened? Seems like a waste of money to me.
New cars, new guns, plenty of ammo, gee what budget crises?
Hey did anyone tell Ohio H.P. all they had to do was replace the 20 inch barreled with 14 inch and got after market folding stocks for half the cost…. We the tax payer got taken again.. This is why Amerika is not going to make it …. I know what you can do for your shotguns , i do my own gun smith work , Why can’t the so called pro’s?????
Well look on the bright side,they’re not replacing the cars with convertibles so the old guns fit…..
+1
What do they care, taxpayer money is like candy falling from the sky to them.
This sums it all up right here. And way beyond Ohio.
The Ford Crown Vic’s been in production in one form or another since the mid 1980s.To put it in perspective, the Bren Ten was still in production when the Crown Vic first rolled off the line.Its time for a change,and I don’t begrudge public agencies from buying new hardware as needed.
If a LE agency buys a fleet of APCs that’s when I’ll call BS, but patrol cars are a reasonable expense.
“Its time for a change,and I don’t begrudge public agencies from buying new hardware as needed.”
Define “time for a change” and “as needed” in taxpayer dollars. I believe the public should have to vote for these type expenditures.
Well, if they are anything like my department, they defined “time for a change” as “the old cars are out of production,” and “as needed” as “the old cars are wearing out.”
Vehicles are probably the highest wear item owned or used by any department. If they decided to replace every car in one massive purchase, then I agree it might be worth a public vote, but more likely they just bought the new cars as the old ones wore out, which was probably what they were doing before the old cars went out of production anyway.
When exactly do vehicles wear out according to the cops? They replace them so often, that in my entire life i’ve never seen a cop car with exterior body rust.
Define “time for a change” and “as needed” in taxpayer dollars.
How does 200,000-300,000 miles on an 8-10 year old car that spends more time sitting at idle than racking up those miles sound? They are also replacing the old cars as they wear out and not all at once. Our local post only has 1 or 2 of the new cars. The amount of money it would cost to keep them running is to the point where it costs about the same to just replace them.
The charger also has both V6 and V8 options with cylinder deactivation on the V8, that is a big plus for fuel costs and will save money in the long run when compared to the fuel hungry interceptor engine in the old Fords.
From TTAC:
“Fleet price for a Hemi powered Charger Pursuit starts at $23,585. For reference the most comparable civilian trim level, the Charger R/T, has a base MSRP of $29,995. For the budget minded municipal fleet manager, the V-6 powered Charger Pursuit starts at $21,949”
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/04/cop-drives-cop-car-2012-dodge-charger-pursuit/
Or they could, you know, pay a halfway competent gunsmith to chop the current barrels down to 14″ or just buy a bunch of new barrels.
…and when they receive their M4’s in two weeks all the shotguns will be relegated to the the trunk…
Does this mean that barrel length restrictions are now null and void since there is common usage of short barreled shotguns among law enforcement agencies? Wasn’t that one of the reasons given why citizens can’t have them (without paying their sin tax of course)?
Good point, though they could defend with, “non-LE citizens in Ohio aren’t legally allowed to have loaded long guns in their cars anyways.”
I’m assuming the 645k figure hasn’t had the income deducted from selling the old 20in guns.
And another item here , are the old shotguns going to be traded in or sold to the public, same with guns taken from bad guys , Millions of dollars are lost for the tax payer because police dept.s destroy good guns that could be turned into public money ?? WHY ???
The old 870s were sold last year.
And how much are spending on ammo cuz you know you have to test out the new ones, do training on the new models, and the old ammo goes stale after a number of years. Yeah, they ain’t just spending $645k.
1) as for the cars….they are prolly negotiated and purchased on a state contract which the OHP might not have a lot of input on. One poster is correct, cop cars get a LOT of hard miles put on them…..and even more hours sitting at idle. Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist about that, try sitting in your car in sub zero or 95+ for hours without any heat or a/c…. with all the radios and computers on and then hope it starts when someone needs help NOW!
2) as for the shotguns….they are prolly negotiated and purchased on a state contract which OHP might not have a lot of input on…..are we seeing a theme here?
3) We ALL know what a scum sucking defense attorney does when they get any hint that a gun used for self-defense in a “good” shooting will do when they find out that it has been “modified” in any way!! It is legally cheaper to buy new shotguns with “factory” 14″ barrels than defend one lawsuit. We know how the feds react when they find out that a citizen sawed off a shotgun barrel. I can see them going berzerker when they find out that a state agency did that to lots of shotguns!! As for the eventual re-sale…one poster is correct…..the FFL that handles it will prolly just buy the un-barreled actions and put a legal tube on them.
So all cop cars have broken blower fans? I replaced the blower on my moms ’03 Camry a couple months ago, it was only $50. Do you think she should have bought a new car instead? The AC compressor in my Cherokee is broke, but I manage to get by. And I dont see how non-functional heat/AC would prevent a car from starting.
The cops also dont help people who need it NOW. See Castle Rock v. Gonzalez.
Why would a “scum sucking defense attorney” criticize a gun owner in a DGU? And if you are referring to a prosecutor or plaintiff’s attorney, that is nothing but hyperbole, please cite just 1 case when someone has lost a civil or criminal case based on them having a modified gun. Oh yeah, there hasnt been any.
This poster above, is a perfect example of why you should always wash your hands after handling bullets, it may not seem like much, but lead builds up in your system and causes brain damage…..
probably*
So they replace a M-870 wth a Mossberg M-500 with pistol grip???? Maybe now ARs??? Keep up the updates TTAG writers.
To all of you talking about the hatd miles on cop cars. How much of that hard mileage is the driver abusing the car? I watch cops around here slam the throttle to the floor for anything. If some gets pulled over two or three more cars show up and you can bet those cars were not driven at the speed limit getting there.
No matter the amount of cop hate that often goes on around here, these responses are for a reason. When you say they “slam the throttle to the ground for no reason at all,” they are most likely responding to a call. And no, their lights don’t have to be on when they are responding to a call. Fast response is a good reason; you never know when a small call is going to develop into an “oh shit, they’re shooting at us” kind of call. That cop on the other end waiting for his backup isn’t going to care about a little transmission wear, nor should he.
Chuck seems to not know what it is that policemen do. Could someone tell Chuck that firemen and EMTs drive fast for good reasons as well. I am not talking to Chuck.
Chuck thinks Its ridiculous to wait ten minutes for four cars to show up so the lead cop can get out to inform Chuck he has a light out. Asshat.
They should have bid out the barrel alteration job and did em by batches. No need for complete weapons
guess we can buy the old ones and eventually the receivers ….
and I suspect the main reason the crown vic went away was to improve Ford’s CAFE numbers due to Obama
not to worry. I hear they are in demand south of the border.
I talked to an Ohio state trooper at the gas station not long ago. He said the new cars are better on gas when idling because they selectively shut off cylinders. Not all the cars were being replaced at once. Just As they were coming of age.
I think they should have just cut a small hole in the roof of the cruisers and added an old soup can to the roof.
24oz beer cans. I’ll set to work immediately.
This is what they do to us in OH. Don’t live here.
Has anyone mentioned that maybe they should have just replaced the barrels?
My thought was to buy the 14″ barrels and mag tubes (presumably shorter) to fit to the receivers. Keep the original parts so that if they go to AR15 EBRs later the 20″ parts can be put back in for resale. Crush the 14″ barrels. Can’t be more than a few minutes work for an armorer to do the swap.
Even if the old actions were worn they could keep the barrels for refit/resale. The Gov spares no expense when spending our tax dollars.
What’s the matter RF…not enough to whine about the cops having “assault” rifles? Can’t they at least have some Joe Biden approved scatterguns? Do you have any idea how old the guns are they are replacing, or how long a police shotgun lasts getting banged around a cruiser 24 hours a day? Love the site here, but I’m sick of the cop hate…
I totally agree with SGC, tired of the cop haters and their bogus stories and “facts” ! That said, try idling any car in the median strip for 45 minutes when suddenly some jerk blows by you at 100MPH, can anyone hazard a guess just how fast he’s got to go to catch the violator, (who probably has a mile lead on the Trooper already). So the police cars been idling for 35,45 or 55 minutes and that engine is hotter than heck. Now floor it to catch up to the stolen car/bank robber/Joe the Plumber,make that Crown Vic run hot and as fast as it can run (in the case of the Crown Vic a disappointing; 125,maybe 130 down hill) ! At least the Chargers can catch up to these bozo’s ! However be it a Ford or Dodge that intense heat will tax that car, it’s parts,belts,etc. to the limit ! When the Charger catches up, God only knows what the Trooper faces, maybe a nice guy trying out his own Charger, or perhaps some whacked out dude with a gun, who just shot some poor clerk @ a gas station. and won’t hesitate to shoot the Trooper…no one knows for sure. And cops are human too,they want to go home in one piece to their wives and kids. OSP made a good move when they put their rifles up front,since any idiot can walk into Wal-Mart and buy an AK. The cops , Troopers should be equipped well, and that includes equal or superior firepower and a police car, like a Charger, that will catch these speeding/tailgating nut jobs that ruin everything for us. And yes”,
often they do have to put the hammer down” and get there right NOW, since so many people stop at an auto accident and just gawk…waiting for that Trooper/Cop/Sheriff and/or medic to stop the bleeding when an artery is severed and bleeding like a stuck pig!! I often wondered just how these gawker” s live with themselves, how they sleep at night,when they come upon an accident and simply stand there, playing “pocket pool” and don’t even try to stop the bleeding ! Amazing, and a sad example of the “me generation”,,,,then they have the nerve to complain how long it took the 1st responders to arrive. I guess it’s time to start teaching our kids the meaning of empathy and concern for their fellow man in High School!
The shot guns can be mounted above there heads, that way they wont have to cut down the barrells.
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